God Created the Earth in Six 24 Hour Days

[zoonance]

I ask myself:  How can a global flood and a boat filled with 2 of each, 7 pairs of unclean (not considered unclean until after the flood as no meat eating?) animals that came to him the bible says (mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians? -  doesn't say anything about fresh water or salt water animals) mesh with what we have in 2007 (and 1492 or 2000 BC for that matter)?   Including all the food necessary to feed him and his family (maybe the animals didn't need to eat?  Those with life cycles less than a year or so???)  On the surface it is impossible and the apologetics offered to make it literal too often become embarrassing.   However, I am trying to investigate the 'below the surface' facts, just as true, just as relevant, just as inspired and just as communicative of His will.    Even with evidence that could indicate a world wide flood, the details of the arc, biology, etc aren't going to miraculously disappear as the ark is not a particularly miraculous event - in the sense that a wooden boat was used to save animals and a remnant of humanity in a physical, floating object subject to the same physical laws.   


I realize that simply contemplating the possibility of the ancients interpreting their revelations on their tiny spot of territory that would be considered their entire world sounds more like the history channel's explanation than really another attempt to explain why the story exists and why the details don't mesh with reality.   


I confess, once again, I don't have all the answers either.  But face value literalism portrays an unrecognizable face and thus another explanation to God's infinite wisdom in dealing with His people seems worthy of exploration, even if the conclusion is eventually .... literal.  Neither science nor scientists are to be painted with such a broad brush that motives, interpretations, observations are to be filtered solely by one's theological understanding as THE filter.  God's word will always eventually reveal which theory or conclusion is off base anyway.   By the mercy, grace and patience of God, He apparently allows us to continue to explore, seek to explain, discover Him in ways that are mysteries today and fulfillers of scripture tomorrow.       rambling!

[CSloan]

I ask myself:  How can a global flood and a boat filled with 2 of each, 7 pairs of unclean (not considered unclean until after the flood as no meat eating?) animals that came to him the bible says (mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians? -  doesn't say anything about fresh water or salt water animals) mesh with what we have in 2007 (and 1492 or 2000 BC for that matter)?   Including all the food necessary to feed him and his family (maybe the animals didn't need to eat?  Those with life cycles less than a year or so???)  On the surface it is impossible and the apologetics offered to make it literal too often become embarrassing.   However, I am trying to investigate the 'below the surface' facts, just as true, just as relevant, just as inspired and just as communicative of His will.    Even with evidence that could indicate a world wide flood, the details of the arc, biology, etc aren't going to miraculously disappear as the ark is not a particularly miraculous event - in the sense that a wooden boat was used to save animals and a remnant of humanity in a physical, floating object subject to the same physical laws.   


I realize that simply contemplating the possibility of the ancients interpreting their revelations on their tiny spot of territory that would be considered their entire world sounds more like the history channel's explanation than really another attempt to explain why the story exists and why the details don't mesh with reality.   


I confess, once again, I don't have all the answers either.  But face value literalism portrays an unrecognizable face and thus another explanation to God's infinite wisdom in dealing with His people seems worthy of exploration, even if the conclusion is eventually .... literal.  Neither science nor scientists are to be painted with such a broad brush that motives, interpretations, observations are to be filtered solely by one's theological understanding as THE filter.  God's word will always eventually reveal which theory or conclusion is off base anyway.   By the mercy, grace and patience of God, He apparently allows us to continue to explore, seek to explain, discover Him in ways that are mysteries today and fulfillers of scripture tomorrow.       rambling!

I don't believe you answered my question.

You seem to object to the biblical concept of the flood and the ark, but I fail to see what your alternative is.

[Sequea]

To be honest with you when I think about the flood, I take it as a global situation. If God had just flooded Noah's "country" then I am sure He would have said "And God said to Noah, 'I am going to flood your country.'" He said that He was going to flood the eintire world. Then again, maybe back then all of creation hadn't spread out to all the continents. And if all of the people had spread out to the entire world did the flood take place before the continents split? That would make a lot sense.

We have to remember that the flood probably took place some 6000 years ago. Whose to say that 6000 years ago we had all of the animals that we do now? I do not believe in evolution, but I do believe that animals have evolved to survive in their habitats, different animals have slept together to form new creatures. That is basically my point. Maybe 6000 years ago there weren't so many different kinds of species of animals out there. Am I right? I don't know and I honestly don't care. How did God put all of the animals on the ark? I don't know that either. But, God is God and I guess He can do whatever He gosh darn well pleases! 

Sequea

[CSloan]

And if all of the people had spread out to the entire world did the flood take place before the continents split?

Or did the continents ever split, would be a better question. The idea that all the continents were one "supercontinent" or "pangaea" is an concept supported by evolutionism and an old earth (4.6 billion years). This is a silly idea since the continents aren't lilypads floating around the oceans. And to make the "pieces" fit they rotated Africa 90° and removed Central America entirely.

Heres more info if your interested.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v16/i1/plate_tectonics.asp

[Sequea]

I am not saying that I totally agree with the Pangaea concept, but I was thinking that maybe the continents "split" when the flood happened. I know that in the Bible it says that the waters came up out of the earth. Maybe this force caused the continents to split like that. Genesis 7:11 says: "on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth." Does that mean that the continents split? No, but it could. And also in Genesis 10:25 it says "To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for IN HIS DAYS THE EARTH WAS DIVIDED." I don't know. I am probably making some GREAT speculations. God is God and if He wanted the nations to split in one day then I am sure that He could have done it. He isn't bound to BILLIONS of years. To God time does not exist. It was just for His human creation did He create time. Just my two cents. 

Sequea

[CSloan]

I am not saying that I totally agree with the Pangaea concept, but I was thinking that maybe the continents "split" when the flood happened. I know that in the Bible it says that the waters came up out of the earth. Maybe this force caused the continents to split like that. Genesis 7:11 says: "on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth." Does that mean that the continents split? No, but it could. And also in Genesis 10:25 it says "To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for IN HIS DAYS THE EARTH WAS DIVIDED." I don't know. I am probably making some GREAT speculations. God is God and if He wanted the nations to split in one day then I am sure that He could have done it. He isn't bound to BILLIONS of years. To God time does not exist. It was just for His human creation did He create time. Just my two cents. 

Sequea

You seem well studied on this topic.

Indeed, I would agree with your take on both Genesis 7:11 and 10:25. I clearly misunderstood your previous comment. May God continue to bless your understanding as he clearly has already done.

Manna to you.

[Sequea]

Charles,

I am in no WAY a scholar. I just tend to get too deep into the meaning of scriptures. It baffles me that there is so much to the scriptures that we can't see with the human eye. Hey, maybe the continents NEVER split and God intended them to look like a jigsaw puzzle that COULD fit together. God's an artist. Maybe He just wanted to have a little fun

[jb728b]

God said it that settles it.

[Sequea]

Amen

[Harold]

God said it that settles it.

And when we believe it......Now that is Good News.

FTL

[zoonance]

And when we find science supporting scripture it is also news that is good.  Although not the Good News.

[Jaime]

I like this explanation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na4L7k6g0HQ



Might vote for him also!

[zoonance]

He stated he didn't know how long God took to create the earth but affirms it was God.  This very sentiment is in fact the subject of this thread and consider the way this politician would be recieved on this thread and similar ones on the apologetics section.    Can a christian be a christian and not state emphatically that he or she doesn't know if it was 6 literal days or not?

[david johnson]

'Can a christian be a christian and not state emphatically that he or she doesn't know if it was 6 literal days or not?'

of course.  God required no confession regarding genesis views before baptism.

dj

[Harold]

Act 4:24  When they heard the report, all the believers lifted their voices together in prayer to God: "O Sovereign Lord, Creator of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them—

Rom 1:20  For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see His invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Eph 3:9  I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning.
Eph 3:10  God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display His wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11  This was His eternal plan, which He carried out through Christ Jesus our LORD.

Col 1:15  Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
Col 1:16  for through Him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through Him and for Him.

Col 3:10  Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like Him.

A politician is going to say what they are going to say.

Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day He rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

I look at the natural world, and explain it according to the Bible. I would never change the Bible to explain the natural world.

Rom 10:9  If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (NLT)

I don't see how you can confess Jesus, and then say, not in Genesis.

FTL

[david johnson]

harold, i'm beginning to worry over you. 

so put the confession right here or calm down -

neither peter nor Jesus said repent and be baptized and make that genesis confession in compliance to what some think or you'll go straight to hell.

dj

[janine]

Harold and some others have made their worries about 6-literal-days into a Shibboleth.

[CSloan]

Harold and some others have made their worries about 6-literal-days into a Shibboleth.

That is an excellent analogy Janine. And I think that what some have done, especially with the "Are theistic evolutionist Christians" thread.

But where I don't consider someone who doesn't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis not to be a Christian, I do see them on a slippery slope. I do consider anyone who confesses a sincere believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God as a brother in Christ, and I wouldn't judge them for their interpitatons. But I think we should be free to discuss these topics with each other without become judgemental or divisive.

[jb728b]

God is not the author of confusion

God does not tempt man to do evil (or to think it for that matter)

If the 6 days of Genesis were something else besides six days why chose the word "day"? Would that not make God the author of confusion?  The very fact that this thread exist means there is some confusion as to what the word "day" means.

[DCR]

In order to keep this thread on topic, the discussion on voting has been split to a separate topic in the Politics forum here:  http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=20154.0.

[Harold]

harold, i'm beginning to worry over you. 

so put the confession right here or calm down -

neither peter nor Jesus said repent and be baptized and make that genesis confession in compliance to what some think or you'll go straight to hell.

dj

Did God create all things through Jesus?

FTL

[david johnson]

harold, i'm beginning to worry over you. 

so put the confession right here or calm down -

neither peter nor Jesus said repent and be baptized and make that genesis confession in compliance to what some think or you'll go straight to hell.

dj

Did God create all things through Jesus?

FTL

no, it appears Jesus (the Word) was the creator -

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.  4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

dj

[Harold]

harold, i'm beginning to worry over you. 

so put the confession right here or calm down -

neither peter nor Jesus said repent and be baptized and make that genesis confession in compliance to what some think or you'll go straight to hell.

dj

Did God create all things through Jesus?

FTL

no, it appears Jesus (the Word) was the creator -

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.  4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

dj

Excellent point, so did Jesus create all things in six literal days?

FTL

[david johnson]

neither of us knows for sure.  one of takes some things literally and the other believes the Spirit expressed certain items with a figurative literary aspect.

early genesis is composed in a 'theme & variations' concept ala a musical form.

theme -
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

elaboration - He created this, and this, and...
genesis 1:2 - genesis 2:3

elaboration - concerning adam and eve within the creation, this happened...
genesis 2:4 - 25

it is not more valid to consider this style a cold data list than it is to consider it a literary device the original writers/readers and (before them) orators were inspired to use to present God's story regarding the beginning.

dj

[zoonance]

neither of us knows for sure.  one of takes some things literally and the other believes the Spirit expressed certain items with a figurative literary aspect.

early genesis is composed in a 'theme & variations' concept ala a musical form.

theme -
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

elaboration - He created this, and this, and...
genesis 1:2 - genesis 2:3

elaboration - concerning adam and eve within the creation, this happened...
genesis 2:4 - 25

it is not more valid to consider this style a cold data list than it is to consider it a literary device the original writers/readers and (before them) orators were inspired to use to present God's story regarding the beginning.

dj

I am not sure, but this idea would probably not fly on answersingenesis.  (a source often cited as the credible summation of the proper christian science apologetics on genesis.)    I think it should be called answersaboutgenesis since there is less 'in' than there is 'about'.    Note that one of us would likely be considered a biblical christian and one of us could not be so considered.   Speaking for myself, I ask a question and the aig answers pop up as if those settle it!  Not only that, to simply ask a question seems to invite a number of labels of us ignorant, biblically illiterates. 

[Harold]

neither of us knows for sure.  one of takes some things literally and the other believes the Spirit expressed certain items with a figurative literary aspect.

early genesis is composed in a 'theme & variations' concept ala a musical form.

theme -
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

elaboration - He created this, and this, and...
genesis 1:2 - genesis 2:3

elaboration - concerning adam and eve within the creation, this happened...
genesis 2:4 - 25

it is not more valid to consider this style a cold data list than it is to consider it a literary device the original writers/readers and (before them) orators were inspired to use to present God's story regarding the beginning.

dj

I am not sure, but this idea would probably not fly on answersingenesis.  (a source often cited as the credible summation of the proper christian science apologetics on genesis.)    I think it should be called answersaboutgenesis since there is less 'in' than there is 'about'.    Note that one of us would likely be considered a biblical christian and one of us could not be so considered.   Speaking for myself, I ask a question and the aig answers pop up as if those settle it!  Not only that, to simply ask a question seems to invite a number of labels of us ignorant, biblically illiterates. 

I have not said that, at least I don't think I have, but I have received a few labels.

In Ex 20:11 God says, as He wrote on the tablet, in six days I created the heavens and the earth. Evening, morning, a day. Try it out for yourself. Plain reading, plainly says six literal days.

This has run its course also.

FTL

[david johnson]

plain reading is not what's being utilized.  willful non-recognition of literary forms employed by the Spirit does not equal comprehension of what happened.

both deep-end evos and the staunchest literalists are in the same boat rowing against each other.
each claim the truth and don't know why smarter folks on the 'issue' are unimpressed.

dj

[zoonance]

I guess that is where I am coming from.  I ask a question - not to prove or disprove anything.  I ask and just for asking, it is interpreted as impure or improper motives.   I then question the learned and clear answers offered and see plenty of holes in them too.  If one draws a line in the sand, I can understand that.   But drawing a line is not the same as providing answers that make sense.  It would be better not to try, I think.   

[david johnson]

what specific question do you refer to?  we've rambled so much here i've lost track!

dj

[zoonance]

I don't remember either!  I don't think it matters anymore anyway.  Given the title of this thread, it may have been something like "What about the evidence suggesting the contrary?" and you can look up the wonderful responses to that simple question. 

[david johnson]

yeah.  let's go get coffee

dj

[Harold]

I don't remember either!  I don't think it matters anymore anyway.  Given the title of this thread, it may have been something like "What about the evidence suggesting the contrary?" and you can look up the wonderful responses to that simple question. 

This is a good example, without providing any of the evidence there is, to what would I respond. Hence obscure answers.

The Bible says, for us less educated, evening, morning, length a day.

What evidence do you have to refute this statement?

FTL

FTL

[david johnson]

1) it's your statement and as such is no better than anyone else's.
2) already been done w/o ANY obscurity!

dj

[zoonance]

Hi Harold.  I thought you were finished with all this?  I don't refute anything.  Of course that is what it says.  If it means what it says, then what's the big deal?  Leave it at that.  The evidence will support it.  

By the way, is there ANY other scripture in the bible that we as christians will spend 26+ pages discussing why it does or does not mean what it says?

[david johnson]

baptism, instrumental accompaniments in a worship service, remarriage...yep they're everywhere!

dj