Born again......adults

[Jsta Babbler]

There ain't no Magic in the Water
___________________________________________________________________

*Finally* you make your point.  Thanks.

Oh, did you know John wasn't "Baptizing" as its done today
he was Giving them a Bath using the Lye Soap

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/the-ashes-of-the-red-heifer/

Jn. 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet.
Jesus answered him,
If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him,
Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.

[winsome]

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

 

That is a blatant LIE!

Pope Francis did not say either of those things

You need to repent

Then I suppose he also did not say

"Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."

http://www.wucnews.com/2014/07/pope-francis-warns-any-personal.html

And these following links are all wrong?

This from National Catholic Reporter... (The Francis Chronicles)

http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/church-essential-faith-there-are-no-free-agents-pope-says

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/pope-francis-says-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous/95078

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_truth/2014/07/pope-francis-says-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous-and-absurd-without-the-church.html

None of these from any youtube source. I purposely left those out. As well as the blogs about this.

It is not I who needs to repent. He does.

Don't divert.

What you posted was a blatent LIE.

[LexKnight]

We're speaking of the Roman Catholic method of sprinkling water (that's been sanctified by a priest) on an infant, and saying "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Just because a baby gets wet and a recitation is uttered, it doesn't mean that baby is born again. And as I said, they're innocent anyway.

[MeMyself]

  Sorry. Thought better of my reply...ignore this post.

[winsome]

No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 

It's not the same thing

Unh, hunh.  Your turn...

Again, kidding sort of.  What Lex described is EXACTLY what you are advocating for and you know it.  NO ONE can save anyone else.  That is between them, as an individual and God.

I wish it weren't so. I wish I could jump through a hoop and my kids all be born again and walk with God, but that's not how it works.  I can lead them and teach them and pray for them, but THEY must come to Him on their own.

I'm sorry you are incapable of seeing the difference.

[MeMyself]

No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 

It's not the same thing

Unh, hunh.  Your turn...

Again, kidding sort of.  What Lex described is EXACTLY what you are advocating for and you know it.  NO ONE can save anyone else.  That is between them, as an individual and God.

I wish it weren't so. I wish I could jump through a hoop and my kids all be born again and walk with God, but that's not how it works.  I can lead them and teach them and pray for them, but THEY must come to Him on their own.

I'm sorry you are incapable of seeing the difference.

Im sorry you are believing a lie.

[winsome]

Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Water baptism is a cleansing of one sins.  It does not establish a spiritual relationship with Christ . In the discourse in John three " innless one is born again of the spirit and of water which says they are separate events. How much time do you spend with Jesus in the prayer closet? If you do it often then you have established a spiritual relationship with Him in the spirit.  Born again of the spirit. If you do not spend time in a spiritual relationship with Christ then water baptism would be meaningless

They are not separate events.

They happen together. It is when we are baptised (in water) that the Holy Spirit regenerates us.
"..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

We mare not reading the same Bible,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
. Tit 3:5

Washing of regeneration comes when one first believes tha Jesus is Lord and repents in his sins in his heart heart.   Take the thief on the cross When was he regenerated?  You have Jesus locked up in a box of laws.

Washing of regeneration - water of rebirth - same thing.

He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Amplified Bible)

[winsome]

No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 

It's not the same thing

Unh, hunh.  Your turn...

Again, kidding sort of.  What Lex described is EXACTLY what you are advocating for and you know it.  NO ONE can save anyone else.  That is between them, as an individual and God.

I wish it weren't so. I wish I could jump through a hoop and my kids all be born again and walk with God, but that's not how it works.  I can lead them and teach them and pray for them, but THEY must come to Him on their own.

I'm sorry you are incapable of seeing the difference.

Im sorry you are believing a lie.

I believe the scriptures. It would seem you do not.

[MeMyself]

I believe the scriptures. It would seem you do not.

It would seem that you are now resorting to flame baiting.  How sad. 

Of course I believe the scriptures.  NOWHERE are we told that we can save another person by making them be baptized.  They must come to Christ in their own hearts. See Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

A baby can't do either on of these things.

[winsome]

We're speaking of the Roman Catholic method of sprinkling water (that's been sanctified by a priest) on an infant, and saying "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Just because a baby gets wet and a recitation is uttered, it doesn't mean that baby is born again. And as I said, they're innocent anyway.

Actually it's not sprinkling but pouring (or even occasionally full immersion).

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

[MeMyself]

We're speaking of the Roman Catholic method of sprinkling water (that's been sanctified by a priest) on an infant, and saying "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Just because a baby gets wet and a recitation is uttered, it doesn't mean that baby is born again. And as I said, they're innocent anyway.

Actually it's not sprinkling but pouring (or even occasionally full immersion).

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

So, then, you should be able to drag any person in off the streets and have this done and they.will.be.saved.  No matter what, right?  Even against their will, or they are out cold and at your complete mercy.

[winsome]

I believe the scriptures. It would seem you do not.

It would seem that you are now resorting to flame baiting.  How sad. 

Of course I believe the scriptures.  NOWHERE are we told that we can save another person by making them be baptized.  They must come to Christ in their own hearts. See Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

A baby can't do either on of these things.

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

[MeMyself]

I believe the scriptures. It would seem you do not.

It would seem that you are now resorting to flame baiting.  How sad. 

Of course I believe the scriptures.  NOWHERE are we told that we can save another person by making them be baptized.  They must come to Christ in their own hearts. See Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

A baby can't do either on of these things.

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

Yes, they do say that, but they also say what I posted.  So, now what?  The truth is, one must come to a decision to be born again on their own; it cannot be done for someone else.

[Jsta Babbler]

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

 

That is a blatant LIE!

Pope Francis did not say either of those things

You need to repent

Then I suppose he also did not say

"Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."

http://www.wucnews.com/2014/07/pope-francis-warns-any-personal.html

And these following links are all wrong?

This from National Catholic Reporter... (The Francis Chronicles)

http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/church-essential-faith-there-are-no-free-agents-pope-says

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/pope-francis-says-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous/95078

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_truth/2014/07/pope-francis-says-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous-and-absurd-without-the-church.html

None of these from any youtube source. I purposely left those out. As well as the blogs about this.

It is not I who needs to repent. He does.

Don't divert.

What you posted was a blatent LIE.

The following important observations were made in 1851:

•We cannot allow that every private Priest or member of the Church of Rome should give his own opinions merely as the standard of doctrine. We will have recourse to the oracular response of the Church, and insist that they be represented by themselves; not, however, by private individuals, but by their legal representatives



But, then, there is nothing which they dread so much as the testimony of their own Church. ...

[LexKnight]

Winsome, baptism is nothing without faith, an appeal to conscience. A baby cannot do that, so it has no effect. You say water, but you're forgetting the Spirit part.

[winsome]

I believe the scriptures. It would seem you do not.

It would seem that you are now resorting to flame baiting.  How sad. 

Of course I believe the scriptures.  NOWHERE are we told that we can save another person by making them be baptized.  They must come to Christ in their own hearts. See Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

A baby can't do either on of these things.

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

Yes, they do say that, but they also say what I posted.  So, now what?  The truth is, one must come to a decision to be born again on their own; it cannot be done for someone else.

Yes it can for infants.

For adults faith is required but for children the faith of their parents is enough. Moreover they are baptised into a believing community. It is then the responsibility, primarily of the parents (and god-parents), but also of the community to bring the child to faith.

[winsome]

Winsome, baptism is nothing without faith, an appeal to conscience. A baby cannot do that, so it has no effect. You say water, but you're forgetting the Spirit part.

Baptism is very much to do with faith. For adults faith is a pre-requisite

[MeMyself]

Yes it can for infants.

For adults faith is required but for children the faith of their parents is enough. Moreover they are baptised into a believing community. It is then the responsibility, primarily of the parents (and god-parents), but also of the community to bring the child to faith.

And, what if they never come to faith, even when lead, even when taught, prayed for and agonized over? What if they just say, "Nope. Not for me," and walk away.

Are you saying that because their parents had their hair get wet and a priest spoke specific words over them, they are born again, though they live a life without faith as adults?

[winsome]

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

 

That is a blatant LIE!

Pope Francis did not say either of those things

You need to repent

Then I suppose he also did not say

"Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."

http://www.wucnews.com/2014/07/pope-francis-warns-any-personal.html

And these following links are all wrong?

This from National Catholic Reporter... (The Francis Chronicles)

http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/church-essential-faith-there-are-no-free-agents-pope-says

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/pope-francis-says-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous/95078

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_truth/2014/07/pope-francis-says-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous-and-absurd-without-the-church.html

None of these from any youtube source. I purposely left those out. As well as the blogs about this.

It is not I who needs to repent. He does.

Don't divert.

What you posted was a blatent LIE.

The following important observations were made in 1851:

•We cannot allow that every private Priest or member of the Church of Rome should give his own opinions merely as the standard of doctrine. We will have recourse to the oracular response of the Church, and insist that they be represented by themselves; not, however, by private individuals, but by their legal representatives



But, then, there is nothing which they dread so much as the testimony of their own Church. ...

Lies about what the Pope said is not the testimony of the Church. They are lies.

[winsome]

Yes it can for infants.

For adults faith is required but for children the faith of their parents is enough. Moreover they are baptised into a believing community. It is then the responsibility, primarily of the parents (and god-parents), but also of the community to bring the child to faith.

And, what if they never come to faith, even when lead, even when taught, prayed for and agonized over? What if they just say, "Nope. Not for me," and walk away.

Are you saying that because their parents had their hair get wet and a priest spoke specific words over them, they are born again, though they live a life without faith as adults?

Salvation is not a one off, forever event. OSAS is a false doctrine.

When a child is baptised they receive and become all that I said. But when they die they will be judged on the state of their soul at the the time of death.

If they commit mortal sin, turn away from Christ, then they will be judged on that.

[MeMyself]

Yes it can for infants.

For adults faith is required but for children the faith of their parents is enough. Moreover they are baptised into a believing community. It is then the responsibility, primarily of the parents (and god-parents), but also of the community to bring the child to faith.

And, what if they never come to faith, even when lead, even when taught, prayed for and agonized over? What if they just say, "Nope. Not for me," and walk away.

Are you saying that because their parents had their hair get wet and a priest spoke specific words over them, they are born again, though they live a life without faith as adults?

Salvation is not a one off, forever event. OSAS is a false doctrine.

When a child is baptised they receive and become all that I said. But when they die they will be judged on the state of their soul at the the time of death.

If they commit mortal sin, turn away from Christ, then they will be judged on that.

Ah, gotcha, so they aren't really born again at all...or maybe its that they are born again and die and then have to be born again and again and again...

yeah. Makes sense. 

[winsome]

Yes it can for infants.

For adults faith is required but for children the faith of their parents is enough. Moreover they are baptised into a believing community. It is then the responsibility, primarily of the parents (and god-parents), but also of the community to bring the child to faith.

And, what if they never come to faith, even when lead, even when taught, prayed for and agonized over? What if they just say, "Nope. Not for me," and walk away.

Are you saying that because their parents had their hair get wet and a priest spoke specific words over them, they are born again, though they live a life without faith as adults?

Salvation is not a one off, forever event. OSAS is a false doctrine.

When a child is baptised they receive and become all that I said. But when they die they will be judged on the state of their soul at the the time of death.

If they commit mortal sin, turn away from Christ, then they will be judged on that.

Ah, gotcha, so they aren't really born again at all...or maybe its that they are born again and die and then have to be born again and again and again...

yeah. Makes sense. 

They are born again (more properly born from above). In a sense they do die if they commit mortal sin - hence the term mortal.

They die in the sense that they lose the life of Christ in their souls. But they can regain that in the Sacrtament of Recoinciliation (Confession/Penance).

As the Catechism puts it:
1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

[winsome]

I can't keep up with all your responses. I apologise to those I have missed.

I'll try and catch up on any new ones tomorrow.

[kensington]

So then, a baby who is baptized by a priest at his parents request, who grows up to be a murderer, who rejects anything to do with God, was still born again?

How does the Word of God back that up?

This is why infant baptism is not a solid doctrine.  Because they can grow up with no real knowledge of the Lord and end up in Hell. Baptism is reserved for those who truly believe and desire to walk uprightly with the Lord.

[Jsta Babbler]

editing

[wincam]

all this here and presumably more yet to come because what Christ said does not for some make sense and has to be revised - the whole thrust is on being born again here as elsewhere as little children who would simply simply believe the original version and not the revised version by adults who have revised it because as Jesus said they cannot become as little children and simply simply believe - btw Catholics are baptized and confirmed as little children who can and did simply simply believe as little children - btw the sequence should be exactly as stated water[baptism] and then born again[Spirit]at confirmation - btw heaven is opened and accessible after baptism - wincam 

[RB]

This Thread sounds just like Nicodemus

You added not one thing to show how one is born again, but actually made the water a little more muddy than they were and still are. The new birth is totally of God, apart from any work of righteousness by the will of the flesh, or the will of man~by Jesus making that statement in John 1:13, eliminating both messenger, and the hearer of the word of God! Can I have a little fun, yes I can......since man is dead in trespasses and sins, and at enmity (not just an enemy, but much worse....AT enmity!) against God, the birth of the Spirit is totally a work performed by God~therefore, man can dead sleep; plowing a field; drinking himself to a state of drunkenness; committing some gross sin(s); making love to her/his spouse; any other thing that may come into your mind, man could be doing, when the Spirit of God purpose to regenerate one of the elect. God alone is the only active person performing this spiritual birth. Truly, think about it~what part did any one person here have to do with their first birth? Not one thing. The new birth is no different. Truly, even after one is born of God, it takes TIME for them to begin to hear with understanding and to see what God expect for them to do. Yes, there is a period of TIME between regeneration and conversion to the truth, without question it is. How do I know this, by the scriptures of truth~the apostles were a perfect example of what I'm saying. For some it may be very short time, for others, longer. You will not find what I'm saying in the SDA movement, you must search the scriptures to see and understand what I'm saying. Selah!

[kensington]

all this here and presumably more yet to come because what Christ said does not for some make sense and has to be revised - the whole thrust is on being born again here as elsewhere as little children who would simply simply believe the original version and not the revised version by adults who have revised it because as Jesus said they cannot become as little children and simply simply believe - btw Catholics are baptized and confirmed as little children who can and did simply simply believe as little children - wincam


  They didn't believe jack.  Their parents did and took them to be sprinkled by a priest according to what they believe.  But, not according to anything that Jesus or Paul taught concerning salvation. 

The very idea that the Catholic Church believes this cheapens an insults the Gospel.  It's quite the circus act.   

[wincam]

all this here and presumably more yet to come because what Christ said does not for some make sense and has to be revised - the whole thrust is on being born again here as elsewhere as little children who would simply simply believe the original version and not the revised version by adults who have revised it because as Jesus said they cannot become as little children and simply simply believe - btw Catholics are baptized and confirmed as little children who can and did simply simply believe as little children - wincam



it is required that adults simply simply believe as little children who do simply believe what they heard and were told and not what they later added to and imagined as inspired by the Holy Spirit - wincam

  They didn't believe jack.  Their parents did and took them to be sprinkled by a priest according to what they believe.  But, not according to anything that Jesus or Paul taught concerning salvation. 

The very idea that the Catholic Church believes this cheapens an insults the Gospel.  It's quite the circus act.   

[MeMyself]

all this here and presumably more yet to come because what Christ said does not for some make sense and has to be revised - the whole thrust is on being born again here as elsewhere as little children who would simply simply believe the original version and not the revised version by adults who have revised it because as Jesus said they cannot become as little children and simply simply believe - btw Catholics are baptized and confirmed as little children who can and did simply simply believe as little children - btw the sequence should be exactly as stated water[baptism] and then born again[Spirit]at confirmation - btw heaven is opened and accessible after baptism - wincam

Simply simply SIMPLY put...they can't believe ANYTHING as infants! Infants cannot reason, they cannot make a decision TO believe...their parents take them to be "baptized" because they have been made to fear that without it being done by a Catholic priest, they will burn in hell.

Sad.  Because, so many participate and think their children are right with God, but their hearts don't know Him.  They don't know how to lead their babies TO Him...and so many are lost, because of it.

[Jsta Babbler]

The scriptures say we are born again of water on the Spirit (Jn 3:5, Ti 3:5)

By baptism:
Our sins are forgiven
We are reborn as children of God
We become members of the Church (the Body of Christ)
We enter into the New Covenant

In other words - saved.

As Peter says "Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you" (1Pet 3:21)

1 Peter 3:21
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few,
that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Posters;
Noah, his wife, 3 sons and their wives were not saved by the Water,
in fact they didn't even get wet, the water drowned, destroyed the Antediluvian world,
not saved it

It Was --- BY FAITH --- Noah preached 120 years
It Was --- BY FAITH -- Noah built the Ark
It Was ----BY FAITH -- Noah and his Family got into the Ark

as Hebrews says
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.
.....

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,
moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

BY FAITH,
Noah believed God, Obeyed, and built that ark that saved his Family

not some Hokeus-Pokeus chant, and the sprinkling of some water
and not by some Carnal Ordnance imposed on them because of their unbelief


Which was a figure for the time then present,
in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices,
that could not make him that did the service perfect,
as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings,
and carnal ordinances,
imposed on them until the time of reformation.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless
before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever.
Amen.

[wincam]

again - the big mistake and error is that Catholics are infants and not little children who simply simply believe, as is required, and born again at Confirmation - so we see Protestantism is full of errors by adults, posing as true Christians falsely claiming inspiration via the Holy Spirit - wincam

[MeMyself]

again - the big mistake and error is that Catholics are infants and not little children who simply simply believe, as is required, and born again at Confirmation - wincam

OOOoookay.  Are you playing with metaphors, wincam?  Are you saying that Catholics are *as* little children, like the wine of communion IS (according to your beliefs) the blood of Christ?

If a person, who is able to reason, and decides on their own, due to the prompting of the Holy Spirit to be made right with God, and they make the choice to BE born again; that means they MUST be *as* a little child (someone with childlike faith), I agree.

IF you mean that any child can be brought to a priest, not of their own will or accord, to be baptized and they WILL be born again...I disagree.

[wincam]

again - the big mistake and error is that Catholics are infants and not little children who simply simply believe, as is required, and born again at Confirmation - wincam

OOOoookay.  Are you playing with metaphors, wincam?  Are you saying that Catholics are *as* little children, like the wine of communion IS (according to your beliefs) the blood of Christ?

If a person, who is able to reason, and decides on their own, due to the prompting of the Holy Spirit to be made right with God, and they make the choice to BE born again; that means they MUST be *as* a little child (someone with childlike faith), I agree.

IF you mean that any child can be brought to a priest, not of their own will or accord, to be baptized and they WILL be born again...I disagree.

of course as has already been pointed out you are using the revised version whereas in fact here as also elsewhere "it is not really our's to reason why but our's to do or die" - wincam

[MeMyself]

again - the big mistake and error is that Catholics are infants and not little children who simply simply believe, as is required, and born again at Confirmation - wincam

OOOoookay.  Are you playing with metaphors, wincam?  Are you saying that Catholics are *as* little children, like the wine of communion IS (according to your beliefs) the blood of Christ?

If a person, who is able to reason, and decides on their own, due to the prompting of the Holy Spirit to be made right with God, and they make the choice to BE born again; that means they MUST be *as* a little child (someone with childlike faith), I agree.

IF you mean that any child can be brought to a priest, not of their own will or accord, to be baptized and they WILL be born again...I disagree.

of course as has already been pointed out you are using the revised version whereas in fact here as also elsewhere "it is not really our's to reason why but our's to do or die" - wincam

What???