Born again......adults

[winsome]

You truly don't understand the love and compassion of Christ in this matter by the one who knows the heart of all men. You legalists put Christ into your box of laws and rules and keep the keys of it.

Have you anything constructive to add to this discussion or are you just here to throw insults around?

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

[skeeter]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

[winsome]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

I'm sure your shopping list of Catholic "faults" is very long and not to the point.

[skeeter]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

I'm sure your shopping list of Catholic "faults" is very long and not to the point.

it's the 'fault' of your church that it's long.  as for 'to the point'- it's in response to you - if you'll note the red bold in your previous post.

[mclees8]

While on this board for the next two weeks I am going to highlight every legalistic response when I come across them.   This could be interesting     

[skeeter]

While on this board for the next two weeks I am going to highlight every legalistic response when I come across them.   This could be interesting     

good idea mclees8  - thx!

[winsome]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

I'm sure your shopping list of Catholic "faults" is very long and not to the point.

it's the 'fault' of your church that it's long.  as for 'to the point'- it's in response to you - if you'll note the red bold in your previous post.

The point is that I was discussing Catholic Soteriology and in particular baptism.

In that context Catholicism is all about God's love - his mercy and grace.

Protestantism is all about legalism - penal substitution and imputations. All legalism.

[Ladonia]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

[mclees8]

Im sorry if you are offended but I said the truth.   You are a legalist but you are not alone, your comrades here are legalists also. Your church is legalist. Your interpretations come from legalist theology and thinking.   Until you understand love and compassion that crosses lines to the heart you will keep right on being legalistic.

You wouldn't offend me if it was the truth.

I'm always amazed when protestants acuse Catholics of legalism. I always consider Protestants as the legalists whereas Catholicism is all about grace and mercy.

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!


the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

Legalism number 1   We do not serve God by keeping the law.  God told Ezekiel -- A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.  Eze 36:26-28

No we serve God because we have a spirit of love that should want to do those things to p[lease, not that because if do not do it we commit sin. What if one was not able to make it to Mass one day and missed the Eucharist. Shall he then do 50Hail Mary's and craw up the steps of the church

[mclees8]

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 2 Eze 36:26-28

We do not serve or please God by the law.   The law is condemnation and brings death

[winsome]

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 2 Eze 36:26-28

We do not serve or please God by the law.   The law is condemnation and brings death

What do you mean by "the law"?

The NT gives us plenty of laws that we need to obey. For example:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15

"Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers." Heb 13:4

"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" Eph 5:5

Keeping God's moral laws is not legalism

Legalism is claiming that God deals with us by legal fictions like penal substitution and imputation, instead of by mercy, forgiveness and grace.

[mclees8]

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 2 Eze 36:26-28

We do not serve or please God by the law.   The law is condemnation and brings death

What do you mean by "the law"?

The NT gives us plenty of laws that we need to obey. For example:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15

"Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers." Heb 13:4

"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" Eph 5:5

Keeping God's moral laws is not legalism

Legalism is claiming that God deals with us by legal fictions like penal substitution and imputation, instead of by mercy, forgiveness and grace.

And you believe that you must obey all these things because its law don't you? Will keeping these laws get you to heaven?

[winsome]

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 2 Eze 36:26-28

We do not serve or please God by the law.   The law is condemnation and brings death

What do you mean by "the law"?

The NT gives us plenty of laws that we need to obey. For example:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15

"Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers." Heb 13:4

"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" Eph 5:5

Keeping God's moral laws is not legalism

Legalism is claiming that God deals with us by legal fictions like penal substitution and imputation, instead of by mercy, forgiveness and grace.

And you believe that you must obey all these things because its law don't you? Will keeping these laws get you to heaven?

Which bit of (for example) "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15 are you not understanding?

[mclees8]

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 2 Eze 36:26-28

We do not serve or please God by the law.   The law is condemnation and brings death

What do you mean by "the law"?

The NT gives us plenty of laws that we need to obey. For example:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15

"Let marriage be honoured among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers." Heb 13:4

"Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" Eph 5:5

Keeping God's moral laws is not legalism

Legalism is claiming that God deals with us by legal fictions like penal substitution and imputation, instead of by mercy, forgiveness and grace.

And you believe that you must obey all these things because its law don't you? Will keeping these laws get you to heaven?

Which bit of (for example) "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him." 1Jn 3:15 are you not understanding?

So do I not hate my brother because it is the law that I do not hate my brother?  Did not Jesus say they will know you are a believer because of our love for one another. ? 

Your legalism comes from a carnal concept. We walk by a knew Law now which is the law of the spirit that compels us to love one another. There is a difference but you seem to be blind to it.

[LexKnight]

Winsome, there's an error there. When making not having your brother into a law, you're saying we must love our brother by our strength. There should be a willingness, but love that's forced from us, especially by legal obligation, is not a love from God.

[mclees8]

Here is your mind set. The church gives us the law. This law is like Do this and do that, and you don't do this and you don't do that. We are you authority so must obey or be punished.  You are a legalist. We love Gods laws and keep them because he put His laws in our hearts.  The laws and rules you read are true yet a matter of record. Not, don't do this and don't do that. The Law was given by God to the children of Israel but they were never able to Obey them. Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation. We worship in the spirit of love not hate. We love Gods law now because the condemnation of the law has been lifted. I don't know how to say it. 

[winsome]

Here is your mind set. The church gives us the law. This law is like Do this and do that, and you don't do this and you don't do that. We are you authority so must obey or be punished.  You are a legalist. We love Gods laws and keep them because he put His laws in our hearts.  The laws and rules you read are true yet a matter of record. Not, don't do this and don't do that. The Law was given by God to the children of Israel but they were never able to Obey them. Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation. We worship in the spirit of love not hate. We love Gods law now because the condemnation of the law has been lifted. I don't know how to say it.

Do you never sin then mclees?

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 Jn 3:4)



Jesus said: "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." (Jn 15:10)

He also said: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." (Jn 15:6)

You seem to think keeping  Christ's commandments is something trivial,

[winsome]

Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation.

Do you really think that if you murder, commit adutery, worship idols etc you will not be condemned?

[skeeter]

Here is your mind set. The church gives us the law. This law is like Do this and do that, and you don't do this and you don't do that. We are you authority so must obey or be punished.  You are a legalist. We love Gods laws and keep them because he put His laws in our hearts.  The laws and rules you read are true yet a matter of record. Not, don't do this and don't do that. The Law was given by God to the children of Israel but they were never able to Obey them. Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation. We worship in the spirit of love not hate. We love Gods law now because the condemnation of the law has been lifted. I don't know how to say it.

Do you never sin then mclees?

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 Jn 3:4)



Jesus said: "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." (Jn 15:10)

He also said: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." (Jn 15:6)

You seem to think keeping  Christ's commandments is something trivial,

what does that have to do with it?  I didn't see anything he posted that made it seem trivial.

of course we sin.  we're human.  as children of God (since being born again) tho, He loves us inspite of ourselves.  just like I love my kids even when they really tick me off...  what could your kids do to cause you not to continue to love them? to disown them?

[winsome]

Here is your mind set. The church gives us the law. This law is like Do this and do that, and you don't do this and you don't do that. We are you authority so must obey or be punished.  You are a legalist. We love Gods laws and keep them because he put His laws in our hearts.  The laws and rules you read are true yet a matter of record. Not, don't do this and don't do that. The Law was given by God to the children of Israel but they were never able to Obey them. Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation. We worship in the spirit of love not hate. We love Gods law now because the condemnation of the law has been lifted. I don't know how to say it.

Do you never sin then mclees?

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 Jn 3:4)



Jesus said: "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." (Jn 15:10)

He also said: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." (Jn 15:6)

You seem to think keeping  Christ's commandments is something trivial,

what does that have to do with it?  I didn't see anything he posted that made it seem trivial.

of course we sin.  we're human.  as children of God (since being born again) tho, He loves us inspite of ourselves.  just like I love my kids even when they really tick me off...  what could your kids do to cause you not to continue to love them? to disown them?

Yes, of course he loves us.

But what does "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." mean to you?

Do you think you can commit murder, adultery, worship idols etc and (unless you repent of them) still go to heaven?

[mclees8]

Do you never sin then mclees?

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 Jn 3:4)


Yes I sin but not as one who willfully and wantonly living a debouched life. If any man who lives this way is not of Christ and he is as lawless man.  How about you? do you ever sin? I will go so far as to say you most likely  need to confess almost daily of sin whether by though or deed. I lay myself bare before the Lord every morning because I know the flesh is at war with the spirit. You probably know the Lords prayer. How often do you pray or recite it. Does it not say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

If you prayed every day this prayer  are you  not asking daily for forgiveness. Neither you or I can live a perfect life and it is not relevant to my post.

[Hexalpa]

Here is your mind set. The church gives us the law. This law is like Do this and do that, and you don't do this and you don't do that. We are you authority so must obey or be punished.  You are a legalist. We love Gods laws and keep them because he put His laws in our hearts.  The laws and rules you read are true yet a matter of record. Not, don't do this and don't do that. The Law was given by God to the children of Israel but they were never able to Obey them. Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself so we could be free from the bondage of the law of condemnation and damnation. We worship in the spirit of love not hate. We love Gods law now because the condemnation of the law has been lifted. I don't know how to say it.

Do you never sin then mclees?

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 Jn 3:4)



Jesus said: "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." (Jn 15:10)

He also said: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." (Jn 15:6)

You seem to think keeping  Christ's commandments is something trivial,

what does that have to do with it?  I didn't see anything he posted that made it seem trivial.

of course we sin.  we're human.  as children of God (since being born again) tho, He loves us inspite of ourselves.  just like I love my kids even when they really tick me off...  what could your kids do to cause you not to continue to love them? to disown them?

Yes, of course he loves us.

But what does "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." mean to you?

Do you think you can commit murder, adultery, worship idols etc and (unless you repent of them) still go to heaven?

Yes you are correct once again winsome, it's a fact and if we want to just claim 'to others' that we are OSAS and then just love to run away in ignorance of the fact that is put forward here by winsome.

Maybe they can or will still go to Heaven, but they don't truly love Jesus Christ the way one can do and just want to hold on to his clothing to get in like so, because they just disregard so many things as nothing that the Bible does point out.

They must not be in Christ, are they just sitting on his tail coat along for the ride say.

There are levels in Heaven I would believe it's true, so why be just content on just getting in the door and just sit back.

They get all huff and puff about it's all about how to get in the door and that's it, there work is done and never mind anything other, because they get all offended.

Sadly the fact is all Political Correct socialist type of people are just so hung up on not wanting to be offended, that they can't see past that point and want to attack anyone who points out their lacking in some way.

It's the Holy Spirit that guides our lives day by day, it's a companion ship abiding in Christ Jesus only Charity is abiding in Jesus, that's the gift working in you every day, it's not a one off done deal like Satan would claim.

Once you are born again it's time to shine, not just sit back and bag anything you don't think is worth jack in ignorance.

I have had a gut full of people that think sin is fine as long as you are a supporter of OSAS you are fine to do what ever you please.

The Bible does not say OSAS anywhere it could of be very easy to wright it down, but it just does not say it at all, sadly the PC mob don't like to be offended.

[skeeter]

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!

the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

then you should have no problem posting exactly where in scripture (the Bible) Christ established the priesthood.  And where / how He formally made the Apostles priests.  Priests are from the tribe of Levi - so be sure to tie that in with the Apostles.

no, it's not those who are born again who don't see what Scripture says, that's the catholics!

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.

again, you should be able to post were it specifically states in the NT that we must attend a worship svc  on a particular day.  and that it is a mortal/deadly sin not to do that.

And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

please post where the Bible specifically states the His believers are to follow and 'look' to the RCC that He established on earth. 

post where in the Bible it says that the Holy Spirit resides in a place?

do you think He requested that a movie script, tv show, play, ?  should be written also?

post specifically where the Bible states that the RCC is 'His Church'.

Since the Holy Spirit only resides in those who are born again, post exactly where it says that the RCC has been born again.

God specifically required His words to be written - He spoke in it and so did Jesus. It is God's instructions to us.   Jesus quoted the OT and had the NT written down also.  As a Jew, Jesus read and quoted  the scriptures regularly and knew the importance of them.  Do you think He did that so that it would be ignored, not read, left on a shelf? because it didn't say anything important in it?
btw, the Bible was written so that most of the people of that time could understand it.  He didn't leave His people alone tho, He gave them the Apostles - and the Holy Spirit.  it's amazing how much easier it is to read and understand the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  the difference is that of a bright sunny day vs a moonless night.

[Ladonia]

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!

the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

then you should have no problem posting exactly where in scripture (the Bible) Christ established the priesthood.  And where / how He formally made the Apostles priests.  Priests are from the tribe of Levi - so be sure to tie that in with the Apostles.

no, it's not those who are born again who don't see what Scripture says, that's the catholics!

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.

again, you should be able to post were it specifically states in the NT that we must attend a worship svc  on a particular day.  and that it is a mortal/deadly sin not to do that.

And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

please post where the Bible specifically states the His believers are to follow and 'look' to the RCC that He established on earth. 

post where in the Bible it says that the Holy Spirit resides in a place?

do you think He requested that a movie script, tv show, play, ?  should be written also?

post specifically where the Bible states that the RCC is 'His Church'.

Since the Holy Spirit only resides in those who are born again, post exactly where it says that the RCC has been born again.

God specifically required His words to be written - He spoke in it and so did Jesus. It is God's instructions to us.   Jesus quoted the OT and had the NT written down also.  As a Jew, Jesus read and quoted  the scriptures regularly and knew the importance of them.  Do you think He did that so that it would be ignored, not read, left on a shelf? because it didn't say anything important in it?
btw, the Bible was written so that most of the people of that time could understand it.  He didn't leave His people alone tho, He gave them the Apostles - and the Holy Spirit.  it's amazing how much easier it is to read and understand the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  the difference is that of a bright sunny day vs a moonless night.

Here we go again! I could post Scripture texts answering everything you mentioned, but you would just reject it by saying that our interpretation is wrong. So since we already know your comeback I will not waste my time - nor yours. You believe nothing of what the Catholic Church teaches and that is everything in a nutshell.

But really, please tell me where Jesus said: "Write this all down". Chapter and verse please! You are confusing the OT with the NT. The Word (Jesus) was alive, a human being, God Incarnate - not word (s) on paper.

And you don't believe in an ordained clergy either? What my friend was all that "laying on" of hands about then?

[skeeter]

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!

the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

then you should have no problem posting exactly where in scripture (the Bible) Christ established the priesthood.  And where / how He formally made the Apostles priests.  Priests are from the tribe of Levi - so be sure to tie that in with the Apostles.

no, it's not those who are born again who don't see what Scripture says, that's the catholics!

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.

again, you should be able to post were it specifically states in the NT that we must attend a worship svc  on a particular day.  and that it is a mortal/deadly sin not to do that.

And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

please post where the Bible specifically states the His believers are to follow and 'look' to the RCC that He established on earth. 

post where in the Bible it says that the Holy Spirit resides in a place?

do you think He requested that a movie script, tv show, play, ?  should be written also?

post specifically where the Bible states that the RCC is 'His Church'.

Since the Holy Spirit only resides in those who are born again, post exactly where it says that the RCC has been born again.

God specifically required His words to be written - He spoke in it and so did Jesus. It is God's instructions to us.   Jesus quoted the OT and had the NT written down also.  As a Jew, Jesus read and quoted  the scriptures regularly and knew the importance of them.  Do you think He did that so that it would be ignored, not read, left on a shelf? because it didn't say anything important in it?
btw, the Bible was written so that most of the people of that time could understand it.  He didn't leave His people alone tho, He gave them the Apostles - and the Holy Spirit.  it's amazing how much easier it is to read and understand the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  the difference is that of a bright sunny day vs a moonless night.

Here we go again! I could post Scripture texts answering everything you mentioned, but you would just reject it by saying that our interpretation is wrong. So since we already know your comeback I will not waste my time - nor yours. You believe nothing of what the Catholic Church teaches and that is everything in a nutshell.

yes, I'm sure I  would.  I've had many decades of reading and hearing what catholics think scripture says and so far it's been wrong about 99% of the time.

and you are right.  there is very little that the RCC teaches that I believe.  I could probably type all they teach that I could agree with on 1 sheet of paper - triple spaced.

it's very sad that catholics don't learn how to read scripture and spend time in it.  it does take some time to learn and understand but there is nothing better than doing that.  it is awesome.  the bible is an incredibly intertwined mosaic of God's love for us.

But really, please tell me where Jesus said: "Write this all down". Chapter and verse please! You are confusing the OT with the NT. The Word (Jesus) was alive, a human being, God Incarnate - not word (s) on paper.

And you don't believe in an ordained clergy either? What my friend was all that "laying on" of hands about then?

here's a few verses  - from the OT and NT.  there are tons more but I won't waste my time listing them all.  look 'em up.

Exodus 17:14
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

Exodus 34:27
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

Deuteronomy 17:18
"Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites.

Deuteronomy 27:3
You shall write on them all the words of this law, when you have crossed over, that you may enter the land which the Lord your God is giving you, 'a land flowing with milk and honey,' just as the Lord God of your fathers promised you.

Deuteronomy 31:19
"Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel.

Revelation 1:11
saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

Revelation 1:19
Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Revelation 2:1
[ The Loveless Church ] "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, 'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:

Revelation 2:8
[ The Persecuted Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Revelation 2:12
[ The Compromising Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:

Revelation 2:18
[ The Corrupt Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Revelation 3:1
[ The Dead Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7
[ The Faithful Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":


ordained ministers? yes, I believe in them - just like I think school teachers should have a license to teach.    I don't believe it's a sacrament. and no priests - that ended with the law. 

[Ladonia]

I can understand how you are amazed - catholics see God and His word from a negative or reverse view.

now that is something to really think about!  considering it's the catholics who have made up an incredible long list of new rules and regulations that they say is 'from God' (I assume they think it is from God since it comes from the RCC).
Christ came to fulfill (and make null) the old law.  yet the RCC thinks it has the right to bring new laws into existence?  yes, they really do think they are God, they over rule what Jesus did...

Could you give me some examples of what you consider legalism about Catholic teaching.

start with their many (mega) rules and regulations.  that not  going to Mass on sunday/Saturday is a mortal sin.  that the day is moveable between sunday and Saturday.  that which day it is even matters...

that one can - and should change/overrule what God put into place, Christ as our sole mediator, by establishing  a priesthood of men.  Christ did away with that.  Did all the RCC priests even come from the tribe of Levi?

instituting non existing places/area of 'holding' such as limbo and purgatory. neither are biblical. 
making up sacraments not give to us by God. 

the RCC replaces God with its self.  You have to follow what the 'church'/RCC says.  the 'church' / RCC says this and it says that...  what does God say?  they are very different things!

the list is very long

No sacraments were made up, they actually exist and the Church just pointed them out.

The priesthood, as apart from every believer being included, was established by Christ and taken up by the Apostles. The "laying on of hands" and sending certain men out to preach was a deliberate action. Once again you fail to see what the Holy Scriptures actually say.

then you should have no problem posting exactly where in scripture (the Bible) Christ established the priesthood.  And where / how He formally made the Apostles priests.  Priests are from the tribe of Levi - so be sure to tie that in with the Apostles.

no, it's not those who are born again who don't see what Scripture says, that's the catholics!

And missing Mass on Sunday without a valid reason is rightly a sin. We are commanded to attend worship services, to acknowledge God Almighty on a particular day.

again, you should be able to post were it specifically states in the NT that we must attend a worship svc  on a particular day.  and that it is a mortal/deadly sin not to do that.

And What does God really say? He says to follow and look to the Church which He established on this earth. I'm sorry, but Jesus never said that only a book should be written and people were then to figure out the whole thing themselves. The Church is a living entity, shepherding the faithful, a place in which resides the Holy Spirit.

please post where the Bible specifically states the His believers are to follow and 'look' to the RCC that He established on earth. 

post where in the Bible it says that the Holy Spirit resides in a place?

do you think He requested that a movie script, tv show, play, ?  should be written also?

post specifically where the Bible states that the RCC is 'His Church'.

Since the Holy Spirit only resides in those who are born again, post exactly where it says that the RCC has been born again.

God specifically required His words to be written - He spoke in it and so did Jesus. It is God's instructions to us.   Jesus quoted the OT and had the NT written down also.  As a Jew, Jesus read and quoted  the scriptures regularly and knew the importance of them.  Do you think He did that so that it would be ignored, not read, left on a shelf? because it didn't say anything important in it?
btw, the Bible was written so that most of the people of that time could understand it.  He didn't leave His people alone tho, He gave them the Apostles - and the Holy Spirit.  it's amazing how much easier it is to read and understand the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  the difference is that of a bright sunny day vs a moonless night.

Here we go again! I could post Scripture texts answering everything you mentioned, but you would just reject it by saying that our interpretation is wrong. So since we already know your comeback I will not waste my time - nor yours. You believe nothing of what the Catholic Church teaches and that is everything in a nutshell.

yes, I'm sure I  would.  I've had many decades of reading and hearing what catholics think scripture says and so far it's been wrong about 99% of the time.

and you are right.  there is very little that the RCC teaches that I believe.  I could probably type all they teach that I could agree with on 1 sheet of paper - triple spaced.

it's very sad that catholics don't learn how to read scripture and spend time in it.  it does take some time to learn and understand but there is nothing better than doing that.  it is awesome.  the bible is an incredibly intertwined mosaic of God's love for us.

But really, please tell me where Jesus said: "Write this all down". Chapter and verse please! You are confusing the OT with the NT. The Word (Jesus) was alive, a human being, God Incarnate - not word (s) on paper.

And you don't believe in an ordained clergy either? What my friend was all that "laying on" of hands about then?

here's a few verses  - from the OT and NT.  there are tons more but I won't waste my time listing them all.  look 'em up.

Exodus 17:14
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

Exodus 34:27
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

Deuteronomy 17:18
"Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites.

Deuteronomy 27:3
You shall write on them all the words of this law, when you have crossed over, that you may enter the land which the Lord your God is giving you, 'a land flowing with milk and honey,' just as the Lord God of your fathers promised you.

Deuteronomy 31:19
"Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel.

Revelation 1:11
saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

Revelation 1:19
Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Revelation 2:1
[ The Loveless Church ] "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, 'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:

Revelation 2:8
[ The Persecuted Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Revelation 2:12
[ The Compromising Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:

Revelation 2:18
[ The Corrupt Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Revelation 3:1
[ The Dead Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7
[ The Faithful Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":


ordained ministers? yes, I believe in them - just like I think school teachers should have a license to teach.    I don't believe it's a sacrament. and no priests - that ended with the law.

And as I suspected, you could not give any Scripture quotes where Jesus said during His ministry HERE ON EARTH to write things down. (It was a nice try on your part though).  And I know, your rejection of the Universal Christian Church, post the Apostles is complete. Your doctrinal belief system starts somewhere in the late 1400's, right? So from that reality we can see where your problems understanding and accepting orthodox Christian teachings begin. As you said "I don't believe" - and that is all you have, nothing but YOUR opinion on what is or isn't. The standard had been set by the Church from the early days (post Apostles) and you only deviate from it. Yours is the contrary opinion (one that didn't come about for 1500 years) not ours.

[winsome]

You probably know the Lords prayer. How often do you pray or recite it. Does it not say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

If you prayed every day this prayer  are you  not asking daily for forgiveness. Neither you or I can live a perfect life and it is not relevant to my post.

Probably! 

It just shows how little you know of Catholicism. It's one of the most common prayers in Catholic liturgy (if not the most common).

[skeeter]

But really, please tell me where Jesus said: "Write this all down". Chapter and verse please! You are confusing the OT with the NT. The Word (Jesus) was alive, a human being, God Incarnate - not word (s) on paper.

And you don't believe in an ordained clergy either? What my friend was all that "laying on" of hands about then?

here's a few verses  - from the OT and NT.  there are tons more but I won't waste my time listing them all.  look 'em up.

Exodus 17:14
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

Exodus 34:27
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

Deuteronomy 17:18
"Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites.

Deuteronomy 27:3
You shall write on them all the words of this law, when you have crossed over, that you may enter the land which the Lord your God is giving you, 'a land flowing with milk and honey,' just as the Lord God of your fathers promised you.

Deuteronomy 31:19
"Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel.

Revelation 1:11
saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

Revelation 1:19
Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Revelation 2:1
[ The Loveless Church ] "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, 'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:

Revelation 2:8
[ The Persecuted Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Revelation 2:12
[ The Compromising Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:

Revelation 2:18
[ The Corrupt Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Revelation 3:1
[ The Dead Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7
[ The Faithful Church ] "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":


ordained ministers? yes, I believe in them - just like I think school teachers should have a license to teach.    I don't believe it's a sacrament. and no priests - that ended with the law.

And as I suspected, you could not give any Scripture quotes where Jesus said during His ministry HERE ON EARTH to write things down. (It was a nice try on your part though).

so, you meant that as a 'gotcha' request - sorry to disappoint you.

you might want to compare your original request (above in blue bold) with what you are now saying was your request.

catholics do seem to have big problems just reading plain words...

[LexKnight]

Y'all really believe the apostles wrote down what they wrote without being led by the Spirit? Of course the Lord told them! They were needed back then, and even more so they're needed now.

[mclees8]

You probably know the Lords prayer. How often do you pray or recite it. Does it not say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

If you prayed every day this prayer  are you  not asking daily for forgiveness. Neither you or I can live a perfect life and it is not relevant to my post.

Probably! 

It just shows how little you know of Catholicism. It's one of the most common prayers in Catholic liturgy (if not the most common).

Yes I know and that is why I used it.

[mclees8]

These are papal mass pictures.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/28/article-0-1B08EAB6000005DC-324_964x721.jpg

This is how the last supper is invisioned
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg

Please note the difference.  one is done in grandeur and the other is very common. You say your ideals go back to the original church. But the original church was born in humility and popes and bishops are surrounded in grandeur and lavish robes and hates , and rituals

[winsome]

These are papal mass pictures.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/28/article-0-1B08EAB6000005DC-324_964x721.jpg

This is how the last supper is invisioned
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg

Please note the difference.  one is done in grandeur and the other is very common. You say your ideals go back to the original church. But the original church was born in humility and popes and bishops are surrounded in grandeur and lavish robes and hates , and rituals

hates

Was that a Freudian slip?

[skeeter]

These are papal mass pictures.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/28/article-0-1B08EAB6000005DC-324_964x721.jpg

This is how the last supper is invisioned
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg

Please note the difference.  one is done in grandeur and the other is very common. You say your ideals go back to the original church. But the original church was born in humility and popes and bishops are surrounded in grandeur and lavish robes and hates , and rituals

hates

Was that a Freudian slip?

while a lot of hate comes from catholics,  it was most likely just a typo...

[mclees8]

These are papal mass pictures.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/28/article-0-1B08EAB6000005DC-324_964x721.jpg

This is how the last supper is invisioned
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg

Please note the difference.  one is done in grandeur and the other is very common. You say your ideals go back to the original church. But the original church was born in humility and popes and bishops are surrounded in grandeur and lavish robes and hates , and rituals

hates

Was that a Freudian slip?

Pardon me the word is  hats

[Ladonia]

These are papal mass pictures.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/28/article-0-1B08EAB6000005DC-324_964x721.jpg

This is how the last supper is invisioned
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg

Please note the difference.  one is done in grandeur and the other is very common. You say your ideals go back to the original church. But the original church was born in humility and popes and bishops are surrounded in grandeur and lavish robes and hates , and rituals

Yes, yes, we know about how you feel about what our clergy wear and this all has been thoroughly discussed in previous threads. As for rituals, hey if certain rituals were okay for Jesus to follow, why are they somehow wrong for us? Here are a few that Our lord participated in.
1. Circumcision
2. Presented as a newborn at the Temple.
3. Presented once again when He became of age.
4. He kept the Sabbath and attended Jewish worship services.
5. He observed all the Jewish Holy days and festivals.
6. He most likely ate only ritually butchered and Jewish approved foods. (At least until He began His ministry)
7. And after He died, His Body was prepared for burial in the appropriate Jewish manner.

So you see, the truth is for Jesus it was one ritual after another. They are not bad or evil, just a part of everyday religious life.