Revelation was written in the reign of Nero

[lea]

  The prevalence of sin shows Satan is alive & well. He has NOT yet been exiled.

  I hope everyone here notices that prets CANNOT present any historical evidence supporting their assertions. The prophesied events aren't exactly tiny, & there'd be PLENTY of physical evidence for their occurrence, HAD THEY ALREADY OCCURRED !

  But they simply HAVE NOT yet occurred ! Prets are left out in the cold when it comes to PROVING their stuff !

Sin is different from Satan.  Everyone will read that you depend solely on history for your view. You cannot compare Scripture with Scripture while Preterists can to prove their interpretations.

[robycop3]

  the only thing prets can prove is that they're wrong.

[lea]

  the only thing prets can prove is that they're wrong.

My view is right. Yours is negative Watson!

[robycop3]

My view is right. Yours is negative Watson!

Your view is WRONG. You can't prove a word of it.

[lea]

... not in the reign of Domitian.

Correct.

[robycop3]

Correct.

W R O N G !

[DaveW]

Either during the reign of Domitian (14 September 81 AD – 18 September 96 AD ) or Nerva (18 September 96 AD – 27 January 98 AD)

Certainly NOT during the reign of Nero.

[lea]

Either during the reign of Domitian (14 September 81 AD – 18 September 96 AD ) or Nerva (18 September 96 AD – 27 January 98 AD)

Certainly NOT during the reign of Nero.

The Jews were not a threat to Rome in AD95+.  The internal evidence in Revelation is directly towards the Jews. Only a remnant was saved. Rev.7,14. The rest of the national harlot Jews were either left for the birds to eat or were taken alive as slaves.

Explain to me otherwise, using Revelation. Show where the revelation of Jesus Christ to Israel and a temple in Rev.11. took place after AD95.

Daniel was told (in ch12) that after the shattering of the holy people, he would rise in the resurrection to his inheritance.

We see that resurrection in Rev.20. Rev20 is a recap of the 30-70AD period. Just as Rev.12 is a recap of AD30-70.

So after the destruction of the unholy city, there immediately was the resurrection.

[Rella]

The Jews were not a threat to Rome in AD95+.  The internal evidence in Revelation is directly towards the Jews. Only a remnant was saved. Rev.7,14. The rest of the national harlot Jews were either left for the birds to eat or were taken alive as slaves.

Explain to me otherwise, using Revelation. Show where the revelation of Jesus Christ to Israel and a temple in Rev.11. took place after AD95.

Daniel was told (in ch12) that after the shattering of the holy people, he would rise in the resurrection to his inheritance.

We see that resurrection in Rev.20. Rev20 is a recap of the 30-70AD period. Just as Rev.12 is a recap of AD30-70.

So after the destruction of the unholy city, there immediately was the resurrection.

YOU cannot reconcile REV11 with the 70 AD temple destruction.

As simply and concise as this can be explained.

We have an eye witness account to this destruction which you will read in depth
in the link.  You will see where even Caesar tried to stop it but was unable.

The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.

The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada.

Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius...........................

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm

Compare this eyewitness account here with selected verses to YOUR Rev 11

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (3 1/2 years)

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (about 3 1/2 years)

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. ( 3 1/2 days)

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.(3 1/2 days)

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

note: So far no mention of Jesus  having had His second coming..Not until the third woe. 

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. For nothing vile or obscene will be when Christ reigns
as it simply cannot stand in His presence.

17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

and art to come.... is future

Yes there was a destruction of the temple 70AD.... A completely separate incident
from that which is described in Rev 11. None of the things that will happen in Rev 11 happened in 70 AD.

[lea]

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (3 1/2 years)

Lines up perfectly with the Roman war from 67-70.5. The great tribulation was only a half week. It represented the half week of wrath for the Jews who did not anoint the Messiah, their prince. (Jesus)

P.S.- In Rev.11:17, "and who is to come" is correct, even though few versions offer "is to come."

Still the timing is correct. At this point, in Rev. we know that from Matt.24, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation of those days. So, in ch.11 Jesus is not depicted as having come yet. (He returns in ch.19)

Also, in Rev22, if you only read into ,"Even so, Come Lord Jesus," - you must wake up to the fact that the book was a prophecy written before the temple destruction.

[3 Resurrections]

Hey Rella,

You are correct that the 3rd woe culminates in Christ's coming.  It includes the time that the dead are judged (Rev. 11:18), and the temple of God in heaven opened up (Rev. 11:19) to admit resurrected humanity.

But perhaps you don't realize the significance of the many "kingdoms of the world" becoming the kingdoms of Christ at this time. 

We know that Satan claimed power over these "kingdoms of the world" in Luke 4:5-6.  "And the devil taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD in a moment of time.  And the Devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."

We know that at His second coming return, Christ would throw Satan into the Lake of Fire along with his angels.  Other texts such as Isaiah 27:1 and Ezekiel 28:18-19 tell us that Satan was to be "slain", and would be destroyed to ashes; literally existing no more after that time.

So when Satan and the demonic realm was to be destroyed, those forfeited powers over the "kingdoms of the world" would default to the conquering Christ's reigning power instead.  And since the saints on earth are vicariously "seated in heavenly places in Christ", then we on earth as believers would share in Christ's victorious, heavenly reign over these kingdoms.

This happened already in AD 70.  Because Paul told the Romans that God was going to crush Satan under their feet "SHORTLY" (Rom. 16:20 - written around AD 60).

Everything in Rev. 11's two "woes" already happened during the AD 66-70 period (with the 2nd woe of Rev. 11 actually starting earlier in Rev. 9:13-21).  The events are recorded for us in Josephus, and are a match  with Rev. 11, even down to the number of warriors coming against Jerusalem (Rev. 9:16), and the actual recorded earthquake (Rev. 11:13) and the recorded  drought at Jerusalem (Rev. 11:6) during 42 months that the Zealot factions coming from "Galilee of the Gentiles" were trampling Jerusalem under foot (which was NOT done by the Romans, who were not anywhere present in Jerusalem from late AD 66 until April AD 70).

If you need the matching Josephus records for the scripture occurrences in Rev. 9:13-21 and Rev. 11, I can supply them again if necessary.  Or I can give the link where I already wrote about the two witnesses Ananus and Joshua, former high priests who were murdered and left unburied in Jerusalem.

[robycop3]

  No, the trampling underfoot of J by gentiles is going on RIGHT NOW, with the throngs of Moslems visiting the Al-Aqsa Mosque & Dome of the Rock, & the throngs of non-Jewish Christians visiting the many Christian shrines in & near J.

  We plainly see in Scripture that the great trib will be

[3 Resurrections]

Robycop3, if you take things as literally as you say you do, then you must agree with scripture that this "trampling underfoot" of Jerusalem was to last merely 42 MONTHS from start to finish (Rev. 11:2).  This eliminates your whole Moslem / Dome of the Rock occupation as a fulfillment of that LITERAL 42 MONTHS of "trampling underfoot", since that has lasted much longer than 42 literal months.

Especially since scripture's descriptions of the Temple site show us that the current Dome of the Rock location cannot possibly be the site of the former Temples' construction.  It was further south, where the Gihon Spring waters were available to be channeled through the Temple for sacrificial and ceremonial use.

[lea]

  No, the trampling underfoot of J by gentiles is going on RIGHT NOW, with the throngs of Moslems visiting the Al-Aqsa Mosque & Dome of the Rock, & the throngs of non-Jewish Christians visiting the many Christian shrines in & near J.

  We plainly see in Scripture that the great trib will be

Newsflash: Muslims are not "gentiles" and never were. They were never predicted in the Bible either.

Christians visiting Israel means nothing in prophecy. And you are against gentile Christians?!

Shame on you!

[robycop3]

Newsflash: Muslims are not "gentiles" and never were. They were never predicted in the Bible either.

Christians visiting Israel means nothing in prophecy. And you are against gentile Christians?!

Shame on you!

  Do you not know the definition of 'gentile' ? It simply means "Not Jewish or Israeli by ancestry". It has nothing to do with religion. While Sammy Davis Jr. became Jewish by religion, he remained a gentile.

[DaveW]

So after the destruction of the unholy city, there immediately was the resurrection.

The "unholy" city as you call it was destroyed twice.  You are forgetting the more complete destruction in 135 ad. Bar Kochba revolt.

[RB]

In whose reign was Revelation written?

Not sure and truly do not care, all I know based upon the word of God that it was written before John the apostle died. No ONE living today, knows 100% when he did die, and truly they do not need to know when, or whose reign it was during. Let the scriptures interpret its own writings and not worry about history, for history is written by biased men who have an agenda to protect. History is not inspired of God and is filled with different opinions and rightly so. The word of God is our only source of BIBLICAL truths, and when men step outside of the word of God to teach or support a bible doctrine, they are basically saying that they  do not trust the scriptures alone to live by and die by. They are saying that they do not live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, but seek their understanding through means of extra-biblcal sources to make the connecting points of their doctrine, which God's children will not run the risk, and why should they, for they live by God's testimony of the truth, not man's bias opinions of it.

[Rella]

Hey Rella,

You are correct that the 3rd woe culminates in Christ's coming.  It includes the time that the dead are judged (Rev. 11:18), and the temple of God in heaven opened up (Rev. 11:19) to admit resurrected humanity.

But perhaps you don't realize the significance of the many "kingdoms of the world" becoming the kingdoms of Christ at this time. 

Obviously you do not understand that my eschatological  study of end times is focused on this as well as all else involved .

We know that Satan claimed power over these "kingdoms of the world" in Luke 4:5-6.  "And the devil taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD in a moment of time.  And the Devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."

More to the point, Adam basically handed the control of the earth over to him with his disobedience.

We know that at His second coming return, Christ would throw Satan into the Lake of Fire along with his angels.  Other texts such as Isaiah 27:1 and Ezekiel 28:18-19 tell us that Satan was to be "slain", and would be destroyed to ashes; literally existing no more after that time.



So when Satan and the demonic realm was to be destroyed, those forfeited powers over the "kingdoms of the world" would default to the conquering Christ's reigning power instead.  And since the saints on earth are vicariously "seated in heavenly places in Christ", then we on earth as believers would share in Christ's victorious, heavenly reign over these kingdoms.

This happened already in AD 70.  Because Paul told the Romans that God was going to crush Satan under their feet "SHORTLY" (Rom. 16:20 - written around AD 60).

REV 20: 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Tell me when this thousand years happened by dates.  Then
Tell how long a little while is. Then
Tell me when this thousand years happened by dates...

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


For we are told Satan was bound 1000 years, was let loose for a brief time, and then after his being loosed for a time, still deceiving the nations then he will not be destroyed but in eternal torment.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever..

Please explain this 2000 years plus a short time ..

Everything in Rev. 11's two "woes" already happened during the AD 66-70 period (with the 2nd woe of Rev. 11 actually starting earlier in Rev. 9:13-21).  The events are recorded for us in Josephus, and are a match  with Rev. 11, even down to the number of warriors coming against Jerusalem (Rev. 9:16), and the actual recorded earthquake (Rev. 11:13) and the recorded  drought at Jerusalem (Rev. 11:6) during 42 months that the Zealot factions coming from "Galilee of the Gentiles" were trampling Jerusalem under foot (which was NOT done by the Romans, who were not anywhere present in Jerusalem from late AD 66 until April AD 70).

If you need the matching Josephus records for the scripture occurrences in Rev. 9:13-21 and Rev. 11, I can supply them again if necessary.  Or I can give the link where I already wrote about the two witnesses Ananus and Joshua, former high priests who were murdered and left unburied in Jerusalem.

No thanks, I have more then enough to wade through as I need them

[3 Resurrections]

Hey again Rella,

Good, then we are on the same page with understanding that Adam "basically handed the control of the earth over to him with his disobedience", speaking of when Satan was given the kingdoms of the world.  Thankfully, our Christ did not succumb to the temptation of immediate gratification, but was willing to pay the full price of suffering in order to finally destroy Satan and confiscate the kingdoms of the world at His AD 70 return on His own victorious terms - not Satan's.

You spoke of TWO thousand year periods.  There's really only ONE period, but it's mentioned a few times.  And we are told point blank by John in Rev. 12:12 that Satan's "SHORT TIME" of being loosed from that literal 1,000-year period of being chained had ALREADY STARTED before John was writing Revelation.  That meant that the millennium was OVER before then - no matter what year you assign to Revelation.

Those "sitting on thrones" in Rev. 20:4 were the 12 Apostles, who Christ said in Matt. 19:28 would be seated on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel after the regeneration (His bodily resurrection).  The church starting from Jerusalem just after Christ's final ascension had the 12 Apostles making judgments and setting up doctrinal precedents and practices for the early church to follow, based on Christ's teaching.  They provided the foundation stones for the church as the "New Jerusalem", as described in Rev. 21:14, and as Christ foretold to Peter in Matt. 16:18.

After John saw these (12 Apostles) on thrones, he then saw a group of those martyred for defending the Word of God and for witnessing about Jesus the coming Messiah (such as the OT prophets).  And he also saw a group of those who had not given homage to the 666-year old Sea Beast (such as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneggo refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's image, and Daniel who refused to pray to Darius, and those in the Maccabean period who remained faithful under Antiochus' persecution). 

John also saw those who hadn't given their loyalty and dependence to the Sea Beast by participating in the period of abominable Tyrian shekel use imposed on them since 19 BC by their own high priesthood leadership (the Rev. 13 Beast from the land). 

All these various groups of saints, (some martyred and some not), came from living at various times on earth during the period of a literal 1,000 years when Satan's deception of the nations had been restricted by that chain.   

That chain of limiting Satan's deception was put upon Satan the year when Solomon's foundation stone of the First Temple was laid down in 968 / 967 BC.  It was a literal 1,000 years of a physical Temple worship system, lasting until AD 33 when Christ fulfilled the type of Solomon's Temple foundation stone by becoming the "chief cornerstone" of the True Temple not made with hands. 

We have a curious statement made by the prophet David's last recorded words about his son Solomon in Psalms 72:4 in the LXX.  Solomon would "BRING LOW THE FALSE ACCUSER".  Sounds like Satan the "accuser of the brethren" was going to be brought low (chained) by something Solomon would do, which I believe was laying the foundation stone to establish the beginning of a physical Temple worship system in Jerusalem, which actually pointed forward in time to Christ's ultimate fulfillment as the "chief cornerstone" foundation of the True Temple of the New Jerusalem.

Foundation stones are extremely important symbolism in scripture.  Specific months and years are given for them for a reason, (like the foundation stone Zerubbabel laid down in the very middle of this literal millennium period, when God revived His exiled people "in the midst of the years").

The saints "living and reigning" with Christ at various times during this literal 1,000 years just represented their sharing in the increased benefits of a world where the knowledge of the God of Israel was being greatly advanced among the empires of the world, by means of the surge in prophetic ministry, and even the worldwide decrees of Nebuchadnezzar, Ahasuerus, and Darius / Cyrus giving praise to the God of Israel and recognition of His people. 

As for the "little season" dates of Satan's release to practice wholesale deception for a "short time", this began with the ascension of the risen Lamb in AD 33 (which was also the end of the 1,000 millennium).  I'm sure you remember, Rella, the whole "walking about as a roaring lion" thing for Satan in I Peter 5:8.  That was part of Satan's "short time" of massive deception, which only lasted from AD 33 until his AD 66 mprisonment in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire, ending with his being "slain" by God at the close of AD 70. 

It never says that Satan's torment was going to be perpetual for all eternity.  It literally says he would be tormented for "the ages of the ages".  Ages have ending points.  AD 70 was the end of those ages up until then.  It was a culmination point that got rid of all the Old Covenant decayed elements before the current New Covenant Ages were established as the NHNE we are now living in. 

Satan and his angels also had their ending point then, since God promised him in Ezekiel 28:18-19 in the LXX that he would be burned to ashes on the earth, and "thou shalt not exist anymore."  This was the point that the Roman believers had been promised and were anticipating, when God would "shortly" crush Satan under their feet (Rom. 16:20).

[Rella]

Hey again Rella,

Good, then we are on the same page with understanding that Adam "basically handed the control of the earth over to him with his disobedience", speaking of when Satan was given the kingdoms of the world.  Thankfully, our Christ did not succumb to the temptation of immediate gratification, but was willing to pay the full price of suffering in order to finally destroy Satan and confiscate the kingdoms of the world at His AD 70 return on His own victorious terms - not Satan's.

You spoke of TWO thousand year periods.  There's really only ONE period, but it's mentioned a few times.  And we are told point blank by John 12:12 that Satan's "SHORT TIME" of being loosed from that literal 1,000-year period of being chained had ALREADY STARTED before John was writing Revelation.  That meant that the millennium was OVER before then - no matter what year you assign to Revelation.

WHOA!

First, there are 2 -1000 year periods.

I am starting to be concerned for you. You make about as much sense as the Mormons... Just for conversation sake lets say that Revelation was written in 60AD.
We know it was 25 years later.

And a short time prior to that would have been when? Let me guess what you will say... You are going to claim that would have been somewhere in the vicinity of
27AD to 30 AD give or take a couple of years before or after. AM I right?
Let me give you a timeline that I think you are basing your beliefs on.

If not then when? ( never mind... I wrote this before reading in depth your reply below.... I am fairly close. )

What was going on 1000 years before Jesus' crucifixion?

That is when God took David under his care, big time.

About 1000 years before Jesus was crucified, David was made King. And David prophetically said as recorded in Psalms 22:16-18

'For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.'

And David's prophesy had been confirmed through later books within the holy words and at the moment I am not going to take the time to post what you already know.

Now, you tell me what was going on when David became King
that would have caused God to bind Satan for 1000 years? Perhaps I am missing something

With man's downfall from Adam and continuing unto today, the binding of Satan, IF it has already happened had no effect to stop that decline of the depravity of man.

We are told Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So for you, is it your belief that is why the Temple fell in 70AD?

You are thinking David, Binding of Satan,Losening of Satan, Christ's crusifixion, and temple destruction..... all in about 1040 years?

I will stop writing any scenario now because I am merely guessing what can fit into the puzzle , which does correlate with some of what you say below.

No matter your beliefs... you simply cannot fit this 2nd 1000 years into your
theory. Andmake no mistake... there is a 2nd 1000 years.

Rev 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

For we already are approaching 2000 years ....


Those "sitting on thrones" in Rev. 20:4 were the 12 Apostles, who Christ said in Matt. 19:28 would be seated on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel after the regeneration (His bodily resurrection).  The church starting from Jerusalem just after Christ's final ascension had the 12 Apostles making judgments and setting up doctrinal precedents and practices for the early church to follow, based on Christ's teaching.  They provided the foundation stones for the church as the "New Jerusalem", as described in Rev. 21:14, and as Christ foretold to Peter in Matt. 16:18.

After John saw these (12 Apostles) on thrones, he then saw a group of those martyred for defending the Word of God and for witnessing about Jesus the coming Messiah (such as the OT prophets).  And he also saw a group of those who had not given homage to the 666-year old Sea Beast (such as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneggo refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's image, and Daniel who refused to pray to Darius, and those in the Maccabean period who remained faithful under Antiochus' persecution). 

John also saw those who hadn't given their loyalty and dependence to the Sea Beast by participating in the period of abominable Tyrian shekel use imposed on them since 19 BC by their own high priesthood leadership (the Rev. 13 Beast from the land). 

All these various groups of saints, (some martyred and some not), came from living at various times on earth during the period of a literal 1,000 years when Satan's deception of the nations had been restricted by that chain.   

That chain of limiting Satan's deception was put upon Satan the year when Solomon's foundation stone of the First Temple was laid down in 968 / 967 BC.  It was a literal 1,000 years of a physical Temple worship system, lasting until AD 33 when Christ fulfilled the type of Solomon's Temple foundation stone by becoming the "chief cornerstone" of the True Temple not made with hands.

Close enough on the dates that I outlaid above. Except,it is more commonly believed the crucifixion occurred when Jesus was 30 and not 33 but not overtly important for this conversation.

We have a curious statement made by the prophet David's last recorded words about his son Solomon in Psalms 72:4 in the LXX.  Solomon would "BRING LOW THE FALSE ACCUSER".  Sounds like Satan the "accuser of the brethren" was going to be brought low (chained) by something Solomon would do, which I believe was laying the foundation stone to establish the beginning of a physical Temple worship system in Jerusalem, which actually pointed forward in time to Christ's ultimate fulfillment as the "chief cornerstone" foundation of the True Temple of the New Jerusalem.

I agree that Solomon was talking of what the Christ, who would sit on Davids throne would do, But No. I do not agree... Not with the chained part by any stretch. And not of binding either which other sometimes call it, NOT AT THIS TIME!

Your quote from the LXX  (Septuagint added by me forthose who might wonder)
72:4 he shall judge the poor of the people in righteousness, and save the children of the needy; and shall bring low  the false accuser.

And  of course, King James men and Geneva Study say
72:4 he shall judge the poor of the people in righteousness, and save the children of the needy and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

But the Old Testament Hebrew interlinear reads... like this. ( not copying as it take too long)
72:4 of the needy the sons He wills save of the people the poor He will bring justice to
the oppressor He will break in pieces
(link:  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/72.htm)



Perhaps none.  is correct. Perhaps one day we will come to learn that all translations have missed the mark.

So no..... NO CHAINS.... This is not when Satan was bound... Nice try though 



Foundation stones are extremely important symbolism in scripture.  Specific months and years are given for them for a reason, (like the foundation stone Zerubbabel laid down in the very middle of this literal millennium period, when God revived His exiled people "in the midst of the years").

The saints "living and reigning" with Christ at various times during this literal 1,000 years just represented their sharing in the increased benefits of a world where the knowledge of the God of Israel was being greatly advanced among the empires of the world, by means of the surge in prophetic ministry, and even the worldwide decrees of Nebuchadnezzar, Ahasuerus, and Darius / Cyrus giving praise to the God of Israel and recognition of His people. 

As for the "little season" dates of Satan's release to practice wholesale deception for a "short time", this began with the ascension of the risen Lamb in AD 33 (which was also the end of the 1,000 millennium).  I'm sure you remember, Rella, the whole "walking about as a roaring lion" thing for Satan in I Peter 5:8.  That was part of Satan's "short time" of massive deception, which only lasted from AD 33 until his AD 66 mprisonment in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire, ending with his being "slain" by God at the close of AD 70.

Addressed above.I was right.
But,ending with his being "slain" by God at the close of AD 70. 


It never says that Satan's torment was going to be perpetual for all eternity.  It literally says he would be tormented for "the ages of the ages".  Ages have ending points.  AD 70 was the end of those ages up until then.  It was a culmination point that got rid of all the Old Covenant decayed elements before the current New Covenant Ages were established as the NHNE we are now living in. 

King Jimmy says....
Rev 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and [color=red]shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Geneva 1560
20:10   And the deuill that deceiued them, was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, where that beast and that false prophet are, and shall be tormented euen day and night for euermore

Codex Sinaiticus
20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are; and they shall be tormented day and night from age to age

Complete Jewish Bible

10 The Adversary who had deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Greek English Interlinear
20:10 And the Devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of the fire and sulpher, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they shall be tormented
day and night for the ages of the ages.

note: The phrase comes from the Bible. It's a fairly wooden translation of the Greek idiom εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων. Many English translations instead use "forever and ever" or something along those lines, which is more in line with English idiom.

As for precisely where it originated, I haven't been able to find any uses in classical Greek, though perhaps someone with better searching abilities can help with that. Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English Lexicon (a lexicon including classical Greek) discusses several related idiomatic phrases using a double αἰών with various prepositions. Interestingly, all of the examples given there are within the LXX. 1

Εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων itself appears just once in the Greek translation of Hebrew scriptures,3 in Psalm 83[84]:5[4]2 where it translates really nothing (עוֹד ≈ still or yet), so the idiom appears to be native to Greek. It shows up 18 times in the New Testament (NA-28, including bracketed):
https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/43927/what-does-ages-of-ages-mean-specifically

Tyndale
20:10  and the devyll that desceaved them was cast into a lake of fyre and brymstone where the beest and the falce prophet were and shalbe tormented daye and nyght for ever more.

Internet Archive The book of revelation translated from theancient Greek text
20:10 God] and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where * both the beast and the falseprophet are, and they shall be tourmented day and night forever and ever.
https://archive.org/details/bookofrevelation00treg/page/42/mode/2up/search/XX

Here I shall stop: But if you want more, just ask.

Satan and his angels also had their ending point then, since God promised him in Ezekiel 28:18-19 in the LXX that he would be burned to ashes on the earth, and "thou shalt not exist anymore."  This was the point that the Roman believers had been promised and were anticipating, when God would "shortly" crush Satan under their feet (Rom. 16:20).

[3 Resurrections]

Hey Rella,

Oops, had to fix a typo on the Rev. 12:12 verse.   Not John 12:12.  Stupid of me.

It wasn't David that started the millennium.  It was Solomon, the man of peace as God described him, who would spread the knowledge of the God of Israel (thus limiting Satan's deception) by his well-known, God-given wisdom and the magnificence of the temple he built according to the plans given to his father David by the Spirit.  David the aging king was the one prophesying about his own son Solomon in Ps. 72, describing how his son would "bring low the false accuser" during his reign (which was Satan, the ""accuser of the brethren").

For the date of either 968 or 967 BC that began the millennium with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid - this is based on Menander of Ephesus' record of the kings of Tyre - most notably Hiram who helped Solomon launch that temple's construction.  This list of Tyrian kings and how to figure their regnal dates is found in Josephus' "Against Apion", and also in Theophilus' address to Autolycus" (Book III, chapter XXII) which says that "...in the 12th year of the reign of Hiram the temple in Jerusalem was built."

But since we know that God can't be contained in a temple built with hands, and since the Jews became so enamored of their famous temple structure itself, (making a virtual idol of it), God had to tear it down level with the ground in AD 70.  It offered an idolatrous competition with Christ, who had been made the foundation stone at His resurrection-day ascension in AD 33, and the fulfillment of the true, ultimate Temple made of "living stones".  Most of the Jews rejected Christ the foundation stone in favor of Herod's physical Temple that was one of the wonders of the world back then.  God will not give His glory to another, which is why He tore their fabulous temple structure down to the ground level and burned it in AD 70.

As for the binding of Satan from 968/ 967 BC until AD 33, the limiting of his deception did not necessarily have to produce massive conversions worldwide.  But it DID curtail the IGNORANCE of the God of Israel among the nations.  They may have still acted in a sinful manner, but they could no longer claim ignorance as an excuse.  Keeping the nations ignorant and unaware of the truth had always been Satan's most potent weapon until then.   

The splendor of Solomon's Temple and kingdom, and the increase of the prophets' ministries, both spoken and written, brought light to the nations during that literal millennium period.  Even when Israel and Judah were exiled later; their captivity only spread the name of Israel's God further among the pagan nations wherever they were scattered.  Remember Naaman the Syrian leper's little housemaid testifying about the prophet of God?  Her witness helped convert Naaman who went on to glorify God's healing power in the King's court.

This binding of Satan's deception culminated in Christ's earthly ministry, when He and His disciples were "spoiling the goods" of the already-bound "strong man" by casting out demons everywhere they went. 

But Christ warned them when Satan would again be loosed for a short time.  Five days before His crucifixion, He told the people in John 12:31 that "NOW is the judgment of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out." (That is, when John said he had already been cast out of heaven unto the earth to plague the inhabitants of the earth and sea for just a "short time" back then.)

Also, on the night of the last supper, Jesus again warned the disciples in John 14:31 that  "...the prince of this world COMETH, and hath nothing in me."   Satan was about to be cast out of heaven with his angels unto the earth (per Rev. 12:7-12) as soon as the resurrected and ascended Lamb brought His blood sacrifice to offer in heaven that day - at the END of the millennium.  This blood sacrifice offered in heaven nullified any accusation made by Satan the "accuser of the brethren" from that point on.

The "FIRST resurrection" of Rev. 20:5 dates the end of the millennium exactly.  The 1,000 years were finished when that "FIRST resurrection" had just occurred.  We know this "FIRST resurrection" had to be the occasion of Christ's, because He is specifically called "Christ the FIRST-fruits" in I Cor. 15:20 and 23. 

There was another resurrected group also included in this title of the "FIRST-fruits".  They were the 144,000 First-fruits of Rev. 7:4 and 14:4 - actually the "rest of the dead" who "lived again" when those 1,000 years were finished.  In other words, that "rest", or the comparatively small "remnant (loipoi) of the dead", were the Matt. 27:52-53 saints that came out of their graves around Jerusalem along with Christ in the FIRST resurrection. 

Every one of those 6 times the 1,000 years are mentioned in Rev. 20, they refer to the exact same period.  Have you ever heard of the "rule of first mention", Rella?  It applies to the 1,000 years here in Rev. 20.  The FIRST time in Rev. 20:2, the Greek says "*A* thousand years" (chilia ete).  For all of the next 5 times, the Greek says "*THE* thousand years" (ta chilia ete), using the definite article.  According to the rule of first mention, a writer originally refers to something using the article "A", but after that, when referring back to the same subject, the writer uses the definite article "THE" to point backward to the original subject.

Like this announcement for example:  "There will be *A* wedding for Sue and John in the fall of 2020.  *THE* wedding" (the one just mentioned) "will take place at an outdoor venue.  Those who wish to attend *THE* wedding ceremony" (the same one just mentioned earlier) "should park in the traffic circle near the park entrance."

Same thing with the multiple mentions of the millennium in Rev. 20.  They just cover the same 1,000 years period as mentioned originally in Rev. 20:2 (chilia ete) but from all those different perspectives (using the "ta chilia ete" term) of the martyred saints, the enthroned 12 Apostles,  the small remnant of the dead who were raised with Christ in the "First resurrection", a bound Satan, and a released Satan.  No 2,000 years involved at all.  Just 1,000 years total from 968 /967 BC until AD 33.   The millennium ended when Christ ascended at the same time the Devil descended.

[robycop3]

  No, Satan has never been bound nor banished yet. Nor has the millenium yet occurred. It won't start til Jesus returns. AT THAT TIME will the antichrist & his false prophet be cast alive into the LOF, Satan banished to "the abyss", with Jesus ruling the world with a rod of iron from Jerusalem.

[Rella]

  No, Satan has never been bound nor banished yet. Nor has the millenium yet occurred. It won't start til Jesus returns. AT THAT TIME will the antichrist & his false prophet be cast alive into the LOF, Satan banished to "the abyss", with Jesus ruling the world with a rod of iron from Jerusalem.

YEP 

[Rella]

Hey Rella,

Oops, had to fix a typo on the Rev. 12:12 verse.   Not John 12:12.  Stupid of me.

It wasn't David that started the millennium.  It was Solomon, the man of peace as God described him, who would spread the knowledge of the God of Israel (thus limiting Satan's deception) by his well-known, God-given wisdom and the magnificence of the temple he built according to the plans given to his father David by the Spirit.  David the aging king was the one prophesying about his own son Solomon in Ps. 72, describing how his son would "bring low the false accuser" during his reign (which was Satan, the ""accuser of the brethren").

For the date of either 968 or 967 BC that began the millennium with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid - this is based on Menander of Ephesus' record of the kings of Tyre - most notably Hiram who helped Solomon launch that temple's construction.  This list of Tyrian kings and how to figure their regnal dates is found in Josephus' "Against Apion", and also in Theophilus' address to Autolycus" (Book III, chapter XXII) which says that "...in the 12th year of the reign of Hiram the temple in Jerusalem was built."

But since we know that God can't be contained in a temple built with hands, and since the Jews became so enamored of their famous temple structure itself, (making a virtual idol of it), God had to tear it down level with the ground in AD 70.  It offered an idolatrous competition with Christ, who had been made the foundation stone at His resurrection-day ascension in AD 33, and the fulfillment of the true, ultimate Temple made of "living stones".  Most of the Jews rejected Christ the foundation stone in favor of Herod's physical Temple that was one of the wonders of the world back then.  God will not give His glory to another, which is why He tore their fabulous temple structure down to the ground level and burned it in AD 70.

As for the binding of Satan from 968/ 967 BC until AD 33, the limiting of his deception did not necessarily have to produce massive conversions worldwide.  But it DID curtail the IGNORANCE of the God of Israel among the nations.  They may have still acted in a sinful manner, but they could no longer claim ignorance as an excuse.  Keeping the nations ignorant and unaware of the truth had always been Satan's most potent weapon until then.   

The splendor of Solomon's Temple and kingdom, and the increase of the prophets' ministries, both spoken and written, brought light to the nations during that literal millennium period.  Even when Israel and Judah were exiled later; their captivity only spread the name of Israel's God further among the pagan nations wherever they were scattered.  Remember Naaman the Syrian leper's little housemaid testifying about the prophet of God?  Her witness helped convert Naaman who went on to glorify God's healing power in the King's court.

This binding of Satan's deception culminated in Christ's earthly ministry, when He and His disciples were "spoiling the goods" of the already-bound "strong man" by casting out demons everywhere they went. 

But Christ warned them when Satan would again be loosed for a short time.  Five days before His crucifixion, He told the people in John 12:31 that "NOW is the judgment of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out." (That is, when John said he had already been cast out of heaven unto the earth to plague the inhabitants of the earth and sea for just a "short time" back then.)

Also, on the night of the last supper, Jesus again warned the disciples in John 14:31 that  "...the prince of this world COMETH, and hath nothing in me."   Satan was about to be cast out of heaven with his angels unto the earth (per Rev. 12:7-12) as soon as the resurrected and ascended Lamb brought His blood sacrifice to offer in heaven that day - at the END of the millennium.  This blood sacrifice offered in heaven nullified any accusation made by Satan the "accuser of the brethren" from that point on.

The "FIRST resurrection" of Rev. 20:5 dates the end of the millennium exactly.  The 1,000 years were finished when that "FIRST resurrection" had just occurred.  We know this "FIRST resurrection" had to be the occasion of Christ's, because He is specifically called "Christ the FIRST-fruits" in I Cor. 15:20 and 23. 

There was another resurrected group also included in this title of the "FIRST-fruits".  They were the 144,000 First-fruits of Rev. 7:4 and 14:4 - actually the "rest of the dead" who "lived again" when those 1,000 years were finished.  In other words, that "rest", or the comparatively small "remnant (loipoi) of the dead", were the Matt. 27:52-53 saints that came out of their graves around Jerusalem along with Christ in the FIRST resurrection. 

Every one of those 6 times the 1,000 years are mentioned in Rev. 20, they refer to the exact same period.  Have you ever heard of the "rule of first mention", Rella?  It applies to the 1,000 years here in Rev. 20.  The FIRST time in Rev. 20:2, the Greek says "*A* thousand years" (chilia ete).  For all of the next 5 times, the Greek says "*THE* thousand years" (ta chilia ete), using the definite article.  According to the rule of first mention, a writer originally refers to something using the article "A", but after that, when referring back to the same subject, the writer uses the definite article "THE" to point backward to the original subject.

Like this announcement for example:  "There will be *A* wedding for Sue and John in the fall of 2020.  *THE* wedding" (the one just mentioned) "will take place at an outdoor venue.  Those who wish to attend *THE* wedding ceremony" (the same one just mentioned earlier) "should park in the traffic circle near the park entrance."

Same thing with the multiple mentions of the millennium in Rev. 20.  They just cover the same 1,000 years period as mentioned originally in Rev. 20:2 (chilia ete) but from all those different perspectives (using the "ta chilia ete" term) of the martyred saints, the enthroned 12 Apostles,  the small remnant of the dead who were raised with Christ in the "First resurrection", a bound Satan, and a released Satan.  No 2,000 years involved at all.  Just 1,000 years total from 968 /967 BC until AD 33.   The millennium ended when Christ ascended at the same time the Devil descended.

We are at an impasse.

We will need to agree to disagree.

I read things differently then you do.

Just a couple of comments.

To your "But since we know that God can't be contained in a temple built with hands, and since the Jews became so enamored of their famous temple structure itself, (making a virtual idol of it), God had to tear it down level with the ground in AD 70. "

Yes... the destruction of the temple is irrefutable.

Bit the facts are, as I posted last evening in another thread....

Reply 27 in http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/shamed/msg1055164831/#new

"That is perhaps so, but the fact is that the Jews  are preparing to build a 3rd temple
on the Temple Mount .

They are getting their supplies all ready and they have been looking for that
unblemished red heifer for a very longtime.

To the Orthodox Jews the prophets in the Hebrew Bible called for its construction to be fulfilled prior to, or in tandem with, the Messianic age.

see this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Temple

Now,whether or not it is or is not for us  it is going to be built.

And it does seem according to the Orthodox Jews it needs to be prior to or in tandem with the Messianic age it is not unreasonable for us to pay attention to such.when God

Whether or not you believe this, they do. And you have no proof that you can show to me within the holy words that once gentiles were finally included FINALLY INCLUDED in God's salvation plan... that He turned away from them to leave them floundering through out the rest of civilization.

The 3rd temple is going to be built. And perhaps not for " Christians" but for God's original chosen. That we each will have
our places in eternity... for why should it be different then when God made them and then the rest of us.

Think about that.

Its been fun. Thanks.

[3 Resurrections]

Hi Rella, you're a good sport to slog through my long posts - even though we are not in agreement.  Appreciate the investment of your time.

As for a third temple, God has mercifully obscured people's knowledge of the First and Second Temples' true former locations (which is NOT the Dome of the Rock site).  I believe God has done so in order to keep construction plans for yet another third temple on hold for an indefinite amount of time.  It would be a purely idolatrous structure, and an affront to Christ's finished work which supersedes anything that might be built. 

The assumption that God is patiently waiting for mankind to finish building a third temple so that He is finally able to complete His plans to return is blatant error.  That puts God's plans totally at the mercy of man's performance, which is a profane idea.

Your observation that my view is somehow presenting God as dumping any today who might be of Jewish descent into the dustbin, "floundering throughout the rest of civilization" isn't exactly what is going on in God's plans.  As Paul said, God has "concluded them ALL in unbelief" (BOTH Jew and Gentile) "that he might have mercy upon all" who come to belief in Jesus the Messiah from either ethnic backgrounds.  Paul's teaching elevates God's prerogative of making a merciful choice to grant eternal salvation to individuals as opposed to anybody having a certain kind of nationalistic background, showing that God is indeed "no respecter of persons".

Having God's own children of faith in every nation ever since creation has ALWAYS been the case.  This was the ongoing "Mystery" throughout the ages, that Paul was openly revealing back in Colossians 1 and Romans 9-11.  Even during the Exodus, God's law provided the same land inheritance for strangers worshipping among the tribes as the natural-born Israelites were to receive themselves.  There was to be NO DIFFERENCE put between them, because God reminded the Israelites that they themselves were once "strangers" also in a foreign land.

A modern-day insistence on continuing to segregate "places", as you say, for Jew and Gentile is turning a blind eye to God's new creation of the "ONE NEW MAN" New Covenant reality in Christ.  That "middle wall of partition" - the literal "Soreg" wall division built within Herod's temple keeping Gentiles physically separated from Jews - this wall has been torn down in Christ.  "There is neither Jew nor Greek...etc."

[robycop3]

  The Jews fully intend to build a new temple in Jerusalem; they've gathered the materials, made the instruments, consecrated an altar, & are breeding the animals to be used in temple rites. This is FACT, not fiction, imagination, fable, or guesswork !

   Some people from Hebrew University are diligently trying to find the old temple's exact site. When the time comes to build the temple, they will have come up with something. And I believe the new temple will be built very swiftly, as the Jews will want to erect the building fast as possible, with embellishments to come later. Most of the priests will be chosen from Jews surnamed "Cohen", which is Hebrew for 'priest'.

  I don't know how they'll choose a High Priest, or come up with the fire that God originally ignited on the tabernacle's altar, but I'm guessing the Jews will produce a fire they'll say was kept underground & burning during all the centures of persecution the Jews underwent.

  But I agree it won't REALLY be a temple of GOD'S, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it. But the world will view it as a legitimale place of worship, same as it views mosques, Japanese Shinto temples, Angkor Wat, & other religious shrines today.

  When the antichrist comes to power, he will commit the "abomination of desolation" in this temple by occupying it, setting up his statue in it, & proclaiming himself God in it. His sidekick, the false prophet, will command everyone to worship his boss & his statue.

[3 Resurrections]

Hi robycop3,

Any present-day serious adherents of Judaism know very well that the very last revised instructions given in Ezekiel regarding temple worship limit the high priesthood ONLY to members of ZADOK LINEAGE. 

Those instructions for revised Temple worship written in Ezekiel were intended for Zerubbabel's rebuilt temple in the post-exilic return, which that generation of Jews followed by having Joshua son of Jehozedek (of proven Zadok lineage) serving as the high priest.

Good luck narrowing down any high priest candidates today to that specific family of priests.  It's impossible, because the genealogical records for this were burned up by the Zealots by God's deliberate design in AD 70.  Since no high priest candidate chosen today could possibly prove continuous ZADOK family lineage, as in Nehemiah they are, as "polluted", put out from the priesthood since they cannot prove an unbroken line of descent. 

Not that lineage today from any of the former Jewish tribes has any relevance in the "ISRAEL OF GOD".  As scripture says, "They are not all Israel which are of Israel".  The children of FAITH have always been the children of the promise.

[robycop3]

  The Jews are clever. They'll come up with an answer most of the world will accept, whether it's true or not.

  And as I said, this temple won't REALLY be a temple of GOD'S. However, it's necessary to fulfill prophecy.

  And, of course, there are multiple passages of Scripture stating God isn't finished with Israel & Judah. He IS gonna restore them, & will purge unbelief from among them.

[lea]

The "unholy" city as you call it was destroyed twice.  You are forgetting the more complete destruction in 135 ad. Bar Kochba revolt.

Complete destruction?
The prophetic "heaven and earth" to Israel was the Temple. That is the culmination of Daniel's 490 year prophecy.
The first half of the 70th week was fulfilled up to AD 36. Then the Jews became corrupt. So Jesus warned what would occur in Matt.24.
So, the last half is a prophetic gap that occurred in AD67-70.5 (Feb -August). Jesus came in judgment on the unbelieving Jews.
There was no judgment for  believers. Their salvation was complete. (Hebrews)

[robycop3]

Complete destruction?
The prophetic "heaven and earth" to Israel was the Temple. That is the culmination of Daniel's 490 year prophecy.
The first half of the 70th week was fulfilled up to AD 36. Then the Jews became corrupt. So Jesus warned what would occur in Matt.24.
So, the last half is a prophetic gap that occurred in AD67-70.5 (Feb -August). Jesus came in judgment on the unbelieving Jews.
There was no judgment for  believers. Their salvation was complete. (Hebrews)

  Please show us unquestionable historical documentation that Jesus has already returned or else be labeled a liar.

[lea]

  Please show us unquestionable historical documentation that Jesus has already returned or else be labeled a liar.

You wish!
Show me evidence from Matthew 24 that Jesus didn't return as He predicted during the Roman/Jewish war in AD70.

[robycop3]

You wish!
Show me evidence from Matthew 24 that Jesus didn't return as He predicted during the Roman/Jewish war in AD70.

EASY !

  No historical record of His return, which won't be a small event.

YOU have the burden of proof to prove He HAS already returned.

[lea]

EASY !

  No historical record of His return, which won't be a small event.

YOU have the burden of proof to prove He HAS already returned.

Prove the internal evidence in the Bible prophecies lines up with Domitian in AD96.

[robycop3]

Prove the internal evidence in the Bible prophecies lines up with Domitian in AD96.

  Quit moving the goal posts, & prove Jesus has already physically returned in the manner He said He will.

[lea]

  Quit moving the goal posts, & prove Jesus has already physically returned in the manner He said He will.

No. You can't prove anything from your history book. I know you didn't read that in college either, and you lack academics . Also, you don't understand prophecy in Scripture because you have no gift for it.

Some are given the gift of prophecy interpretation but you weren't!

You can't even take the effort to explain your position on how if Rev. was written in AD95--reconcile the internal evidence in Rev. on how the Jews were a threat to Rome in AD95.