Will Sunday worship be the downfall of many Christians.

[Hobie]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

Now, lets take a closer look at transgression, or what is inquity or sin, from scripture.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If we look it is any thought, word or action, omission or desire, contrary to the law of God.(Rom.8:3) Sin in us has been condemned, thus when we come humbly to God and confess our wrong doing in repentance, the Father forgives and justifies us of all sin, which are the acts committed against His Law. So what does Gods Law written with His own finger say:
"8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

And Christ Himself declares...

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17

If we choose to deny the sacrifice of Christ and continue to transgress Gods Law, and live knowingly in sin, there will be consequences. Jeremiah 5:25 says,"Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you."

So from scripture we can see that iniquity and sin really puts us in the domain of evil and the blessings of the Lord are withheld from us. We can see the consequences of iniquity all over the Bible, when Cain held on to the evil thoughts and we know the results, and when jealousy over a coat caused brothers to try to kill and they sell their own flesh and blood, and Judas selling out for 30 pieces of silver. The Bible is full of examples of people holding on to iniquity instead of trusting in the Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the great I AM, writer of the Law, Lord of the Sabbath, Christ our Lord, and the truth he brings.

But then if Christians stay with sin and iniquity, and knowingly continue in transgression and do not come humbly before God and admit and confess/repent the sin, but with full knowledge of it, hold on to it and do no let it go, what does Christ say to them.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

[Jd34]

I worship God everyday. I must be in real trouble. 

[4WD]

I worship God everyday. I must be in real trouble. 

Good for you.  The idea of coming together on Sunday or any other day to "worship" isn't mentioned in the NT that I am aware of.  They came together for fellowship, breaking bread [eating together], prayer and for learning [the apostles teachings]. 

[Alan]

I worship God everyday. I must be in real trouble. 

Good for you.  The idea of coming together on Sunday or any other day to "worship" isn't mentioned in the NT that I am aware of.  They came together for fellowship, breaking bread [eating together], prayer and for learning [the apostles teachings].

I've always defended that stance myself, EVERYDAY is the Lord's day, if we choose one day over another to exalt the Lord and act "differently" we are failing what we are taught in the scriptures.

[Amo]

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The commandment itself doesn't really say anything about gathering together, that is more or less just a result of people of like mind doing so on the common day they observe as God's appointed day of rest.

A very large contingency of professed Christians however, follow a leader who teaches that Jesus did away with the fourth commandment, and established Sunday as the Christian day of rest and worship. This they claim He did through the Church, which was and is them, and that all Christians therefore should do likewise. Accordingly, they have worked with kings and governments throughout history establishing earthly laws enforcing the observance of this day upon all within these various kingdoms or countries. Such movements are underway presently and will no doubt continue.

These laws create contention between those pushing them, and all those of course who disagree with them. The latter including Christians who know the bible itself ever only refers to one day commanded by God to be observed as His Sabbath. These Christians understand that the day must be observed by faith in the word of God, not compulsion since forced worship is really no worship at all. The man of sin though, who established Sunday rest by human laws, believes all should be compelled to observe the day he and his cohorts have chosen. Thus the unending Sunday laws in this world since its establishment, and the continual movements supporting them.

While many make excuses for ignoring the fourth commandment at present, there will be no excuses when the day of the Sun is again exalted by the laws of the land above that day which God Himself commanded as the day of rest. At that time all will decide whether they worship God, or man. God Himself will allow for this situation to develop exactly to bring all of humanity to a settled decision regarding who they worship, before He returns to end this world and replace it with one where all worship Him as the true and rightful Lord of all. Until such a time, all are of course responsible for working out their own salvation with fear and trembling regarding their true condition before God relating to His commands, and the salvation provided for us through His Son Jesus Christ.

11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The Sabbath commandment is exactly about exercising faith in the God who created our and every other world. Before Christ returns as depicted in the book of Revelation chapter 14, a message will go out to the world warning them to once again worship Him who created heaven and earth. This is a direct call back to the observance of the fourth commandment of God, which itself is a God designated time to do just exactly that.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

While God's people will be calling all back to worship the creator of heaven and earth by observing His fourth commandment directly connected to the same by faith in His word, the man of sin and his minions will be busy establishing their spurious day of worship through human laws forcing it upon all. at which time all of humanity will choose who they really worship before Christ returns.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

During this time, the saints are those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. The Sabbath Sunday issue is exactly about keeping the commandment of God or not. It has been, is, and will continue to be so. Which harvest will you be a part of? Will you be among the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, or not? Time alone will tell.

[MeMyself]

No, the downfall of many Christians is our defiant refusal to honor the call of Romans 14.

Its heartbreaking how many podiums of judgment we erect to stand and point fingers at others over, rather than being a place of humility; eager to show the grace that God so lavishes upon our own pitiful hearts.

[NorrinRadd]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

[chosenone]

Every day belongs to Him, and actually the early church met together every day.
Acts 2:46 - Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts...

[Texas Conservative]

Col. 2 shows us that the SDA church is full of it.

[Amo]

No, the downfall of many Christians is our defiant refusal to honor the call of Romans 14.

Its heartbreaking how many podiums of judgment we erect to stand and point fingers at others over, rather than being a place of humility; eager to show the grace that God so lavishes upon our own pitiful hearts.

I take it you are referring to the following.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in the above verses. If we are to apply it to Sabbath or Sunday observance though, which it cannot not be referring to, Sunday keepers have been the far more guilty party pertaining to it. While Sabbath keepers have and do feel the conviction to tell the truth concerning continued Sabbath observance, they have not made human laws enforcing their day upon all as Sunday keepers have repeatedly done throughout history. Even persecuting those who would not keep their chosen day. Even now many wish for and are striving for laws forcing all to acknowledge their day of worship.

[Amo]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Again, more applicable to Sunday keepers than Sabbath keepers. Attempting not only to force their day on others, but prevent others from keeping the seventh day sabbath by threatening them with being cut off from Christ. As though they or any ever had such power to do so.

[Amo]

Every day belongs to Him, and actually the early church met together every day.
Acts 2:46 - Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts...

Yes they did. No hint anywhere though, that this abolished the seventh day Sabbath and fourth commandment, and or established Sunday as a day of worship.

[Amo]

Col. 2 shows us that the SDA church is full of it.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ............
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

If you would make such as the above refer to the Sabbath day sanctified by our Lord and Creator Jesus Christ at creation, spoken by the mouth of God Himself at the mount, and written with His own finger in stone, you are on your own.

Apart from this though again, if those who keep the fourth commandment are guilty of the above, then Sunday keepers are doubly so for repeatedly forcing their own unquestionably man made tradition upon all many times over.

[notreligus]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.   

[MeMyself]

No, the downfall of many Christians is our defiant refusal to honor the call of Romans 14.

Its heartbreaking how many podiums of judgment we erect to stand and point fingers at others over, rather than being a place of humility; eager to show the grace that God so lavishes upon our own pitiful hearts.

I take it you are referring to the following.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in the above verses. If we are to apply it to Sabbath or Sunday observance though, which it cannot not be referring to, Sunday keepers have been the far more guilty party pertaining to it. While Sabbath keepers have and do feel the conviction to tell the truth concerning continued Sabbath observance, they have not made human laws enforcing their day upon all as Sunday keepers have repeatedly done throughout history. Even persecuting those who would not keep their chosen day. Even now many wish for and are striving for laws forcing all to acknowledge their day of worship.

It is an absolutely legalistic view to try and say that only what is mentioned in the chapter is what Paul is talking about.  He is talking about ALL disputable matters.

Including judging others over the what day they keep.

And, whats the point in saying "they do it worse!"?  A childish one and one that can't be proven, actually.  I have *never* heard Sabbath keepers treated with disgrace, but Sunday worshipers have been told they have the mark of the beast, are lost, aren't true Christ followers, etc.

[MeMyself]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.

Me too.  While I have had a fun time at lunch with the ones I know on Saturday, after they get out from their church, it has often confused me...

[Amo]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.

Thats unfortunate. I know many who do no such things. Nor do I. On the other hand, I have eaten out on Sabbath on occasion, under certain circumstance. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and one must determine for themselves what is good or not in certain situations. Nor Do I believe God expects Sabbath keepers to go hungry on Sabbaths when situations dictate eating out or doing so. Nor does any Sabbath keeper or anyone else for that matter make anyone who does not observe the Sabbath to begin with, break it by eating where they work on the Sabbath.

[Amo]

No, the downfall of many Christians is our defiant refusal to honor the call of Romans 14.

Its heartbreaking how many podiums of judgment we erect to stand and point fingers at others over, rather than being a place of humility; eager to show the grace that God so lavishes upon our own pitiful hearts.

I take it you are referring to the following.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in the above verses. If we are to apply it to Sabbath or Sunday observance though, which it cannot not be referring to, Sunday keepers have been the far more guilty party pertaining to it. While Sabbath keepers have and do feel the conviction to tell the truth concerning continued Sabbath observance, they have not made human laws enforcing their day upon all as Sunday keepers have repeatedly done throughout history. Even persecuting those who would not keep their chosen day. Even now many wish for and are striving for laws forcing all to acknowledge their day of worship.

It is an absolutely legalistic view to try and say that only what is mentioned in the chapter is what Paul is talking about.  He is talking about ALL disputable matters.

Including judging others over the what day they keep.

And, whats the point in saying "they do it worse!"?  A childish one and one that can't be proven, actually.  I have *never* heard Sabbath keepers treated with disgrace, but Sunday worshipers have been told they have the mark of the beast, are lost, aren't true Christ followers, etc.

Anyone who told Sunday keepers they have the mark of the beast lied. No one has the mark of the beast, until the beast forces worship and they decide to give in to the beast.

I said if Paul was referring to the seventh day Sabbath and the Sabbath Sunday issue, which he was definitely not, then Sunday keepers are the more guilty of the parties. They are the ones throughout history that have made and enforced Sundays laws whith real penalties for disobeying them. Go to the Sabbath, Sunday, and legalism thread on this SDA board and click the link to the non- SDA book about Sunday laws provided. You can read about Sunday laws and their penalties in that book, which book certainly is not an exhaustive source. If you would like more evidence, I will be happy to provide the same. Just ask.

As far as being told they are not true followers of Christ, this accusation has been around for a long time. No doubt used by both sides of the issue from ages past.

Pope Gregory I (AD 590-604) said :
"Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?." Epistles of Gregory I, b.13, epist.1, found in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.


The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

[Amo]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.

Me too.  While I have had a fun time at lunch with the ones I know on Saturday, after they get out from their church, it has often confused me...

You should ask them about it.

[NorrinRadd]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Again, more applicable to Sunday keepers than Sabbath keepers. Attempting not only to force their day on others, but prevent others from keeping the seventh day sabbath by threatening them with being cut off from Christ. As though they or any ever had such power to do so.

I never quote Councils, Synods, Creeds, Confessions, etc., and place only marginal stock in such.  FTR, I have no more respect for those who consider Sunday a "special" or "holy" day than I do for those still mired in Obsolete Covenant Sabbatarian legalism.

[Amo]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Again, more applicable to Sunday keepers than Sabbath keepers. Attempting not only to force their day on others, but prevent others from keeping the seventh day sabbath by threatening them with being cut off from Christ. As though they or any ever had such power to do so.

I never quote Councils, Synods, Creeds, Confessions, etc., and place only marginal stock in such.  FTR, I have no more respect for those who consider Sunday a "special" or "holy" day than I do for those still mired in Obsolete Covenant Sabbatarian legalism.

Right. In the new covenant anything goes. I'm ok, your ok, don't worry be happy. God's law, obsolete. Never mind what that Jesus man said. That was long ago, and Paul told us otherwise. He straightened Jesus mistakes out.

[MeMyself]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.

Me too.  While I have had a fun time at lunch with the ones I know on Saturday, after they get out from their church, it has often confused me...

You should ask them about it.

Good idea!  I have had the same thought, but I am not able to come up with a way to do it that doesn't sound like I am accusing them of something or trying to trap them with an "A-HA!" question.

I am sincerely curious. 

Any suggestions?

[Amo]

I know some Seventh Day Adventists.   The ones I know use their religion so they don't have to work on Saturday.   And, I've never seen one honor the Sabbath when it actually starts, at sundown on Friday.   They're out in the restaurants, malls, and theaters on Friday night causing many others to have to break the Sabbath they claim to honor.

Me too.  While I have had a fun time at lunch with the ones I know on Saturday, after they get out from their church, it has often confused me...

You should ask them about it.

Good idea!  I have had the same thought, but I am not able to come up with a way to do it that doesn't sound like I am accusing them of something or trying to trap them with an "A-HA!" question.

I am sincerely curious. 

Any suggestions?

Surely you can ask them to clarify their views regarding the Sabbath without offending them, or putting them on the defense. I would hope they would consider it a good opportunity to share their convictions. Some SDA's are much more liberal than others concerning what should or should not be done on the Sabbath. If they are offended simply by you asking, that is their problem, not yours. Even if they think you are accusing or trying to trap them, they should have an answer for their faith. If not, maybe you will help them consider such.

[NorrinRadd]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Again, more applicable to Sunday keepers than Sabbath keepers. Attempting not only to force their day on others, but prevent others from keeping the seventh day sabbath by threatening them with being cut off from Christ. As though they or any ever had such power to do so.

I never quote Councils, Synods, Creeds, Confessions, etc., and place only marginal stock in such.  FTR, I have no more respect for those who consider Sunday a "special" or "holy" day than I do for those still mired in Obsolete Covenant Sabbatarian legalism.

Right. In the new covenant anything goes. I'm ok, your ok, don't worry be happy. God's law, obsolete. Never mind what that Jesus man said. That was long ago, and Paul told us otherwise. He straightened Jesus mistakes out.

I prefer to say that he built on the foundation Jesus laid.  We may be going a bit off-topic, so I won't press the matter further unless you or someone else wishes to pursue it.

[Amo]

The downfall of many "Christians" has been and will be the desire to cling to holy days and other laws, and worse, to impose such strictures on others, showing themselves to be "severed from Christ" and inviting anathema.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Again, more applicable to Sunday keepers than Sabbath keepers. Attempting not only to force their day on others, but prevent others from keeping the seventh day sabbath by threatening them with being cut off from Christ. As though they or any ever had such power to do so.

I never quote Councils, Synods, Creeds, Confessions, etc., and place only marginal stock in such.  FTR, I have no more respect for those who consider Sunday a "special" or "holy" day than I do for those still mired in Obsolete Covenant Sabbatarian legalism.

Right. In the new covenant anything goes. I'm ok, your ok, don't worry be happy. God's law, obsolete. Never mind what that Jesus man said. That was long ago, and Paul told us otherwise. He straightened Jesus mistakes out.

I prefer to say that he built on the foundation Jesus laid.  We may be going a bit off-topic, so I won't press the matter further unless you or someone else wishes to pursue it.

I certainly can agree that Paul and the other apostles built upon the foundation which is Jesus Christ. The problems begin when Paul's writings in particular, are used in a manner which blatantly contradicts plain and conclusive statements made by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is where I part ways with all such. The apostles were Holy Spirit filled and inspired men. Jesus Christ was, is, and always will be God. Though He freely surrendered such and became a man, and lived as a man for our salvation. Praise His pure, holy, and undefiled name. He is our God, and our brother.

1 Cor 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

In the study of God's word, the NT in particular, it is paramount to judge the words of the apostles themselves by the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, rather than the other way around. The latter leads to deception.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1 Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2 Jn 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the foundation. His teachings and doctrine are the foundation of the true church. Those who use the words of the apostles in a contradictory manner to the plain teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ are wandering away from the foundation. They are not part of the temple of God.

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The SDA church believes the above words spoken by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We do not want to be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. We therefore judge the writings and teachings of Paul and the other apostles in the greater light of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Firmly beveling that it was not ever the apostles intention to teach or preach anything which blatantly contradicts a thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, King of kings, and Lord of lords.

[DMA]

Question for SDA's:

Since the SDA church teaches that it is wrong or unbiblical for Christians to worship on Sunday, what scripture can you cite that teaches it is indeed wrong for Christians to worship God on Sunday?

[Amo]

Question for SDA's:

Since the SDA church teaches that it is wrong or unbiblical for Christians to worship on Sunday, what scripture can you cite that teaches it is indeed wrong for Christians to worship God on Sunday?

Please do worship God every day, including Sunday. There is nothing wrong with worshiping God on Sunday, unless you think that day has replaced the sabbath. Doing so is simply unbiblical. Jesus addressed the core of this problem.

Matt 15:Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

It is one thing to form traditions, it is another to form traditions which contradict the commandments and testimony of the word of God. It is yet another still to enforce such traditions by human laws. There is nothing wrong with worshiping God on Sunday, save it is done in place of God's sanctified day, making the commandment and word of God of none effect by this man made tradition. Then, God forbid, forcing the same upon others as well.

[DMA]

Hi Amo,

So you would see no problem, scripturally speaking, for Christians to corporately worship God on Sunday?

Also, please check out my new thread where I flesh this question out more. It's entitled "Worshipping God on Sunday".

[Amo]

Hi Amo,

So you would see no problem, scripturally speaking, for Christians to corporately worship God on Sunday?

Also, please check out my new thread where I flesh this question out more. It's entitled "Worshipping God on Sunday".

Strange thing, when using my regular computer, I'm unable to access these boards anymore. It says my account has been suspended. So I used my old computer and it got me here. Now I'm having problems posting, so I'm not sure what is going on, or if I will be able to post.

Starting a tradition of worshiping on Sunday is one thing, replacing the seventh day Sabbath with a first day Sabbath is another altogether. The latter is replacing a commandment of God, with the traditions of man.

[Alan]

Strange thing, when using my regular computer, I'm unable to access these boards anymore. It says my account has been suspended. So I used my old computer and it got me here.

That was all of us Amo, you just happened to log in at just the right time.....coincidence.

[Amo]

Strange thing, when using my regular computer, I'm unable to access these boards anymore. It says my account has been suspended. So I used my old computer and it got me here.

That was all of us Amo, you just happened to log in at just the right time.....coincidence.

Good deal.  My old computer is extremely slow.

[DMA]

Starting a tradition of worshiping on Sunday is one thing, replacing the seventh day Sabbath with a first day Sabbath is another altogether. The latter is replacing a commandment of God, with the traditions of man.

We can continue this discussion under my thread here:http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/worshipping-god-on-sunday/

[Michael2012]

No, the downfall of many Christians is our defiant refusal to honor the call of Romans 14.

Its heartbreaking how many podiums of judgment we erect to stand and point fingers at others over, rather than being a place of humility; eager to show the grace that God so lavishes upon our own pitiful hearts.

I take it you are referring to the following.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in the above verses. If we are to apply it to Sabbath or Sunday observance though, which it cannot not be referring to, Sunday keepers have been the far more guilty party pertaining to it. While Sabbath keepers have and do feel the conviction to tell the truth concerning continued Sabbath observance, they have not made human laws enforcing their day upon all as Sunday keepers have repeatedly done throughout history. Even persecuting those who would not keep their chosen day. Even now many wish for and are striving for laws forcing all to acknowledge their day of worship.

Colossians 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

[Michael2012]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

Now, lets take a closer look at transgression, or what is inquity or sin, from scripture.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If we look it is any thought, word or action, omission or desire, contrary to the law of God.(Rom.8:3) Sin in us has been condemned, thus when we come humbly to God and confess our wrong doing in repentance, the Father forgives and justifies us of all sin, which are the acts committed against His Law. So what does Gods Law written with His own finger say:
"8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

And Christ Himself declares...

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17

If we choose to deny the sacrifice of Christ and continue to transgress Gods Law, and live knowingly in sin, there will be consequences. Jeremiah 5:25 says,"Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you."

So from scripture we can see that iniquity and sin really puts us in the domain of evil and the blessings of the Lord are withheld from us. We can see the consequences of iniquity all over the Bible, when Cain held on to the evil thoughts and we know the results, and when jealousy over a coat caused brothers to try to kill and they sell their own flesh and blood, and Judas selling out for 30 pieces of silver. The Bible is full of examples of people holding on to iniquity instead of trusting in the Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the great I AM, writer of the Law, Lord of the Sabbath, Christ our Lord, and the truth he brings.

But then if Christians stay with sin and iniquity, and knowingly continue in transgression and do not come humbly before God and admit and confess/repent the sin, but with full knowledge of it, hold on to it and do no let it go, what does Christ say to them.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

I think that this matter should not really be an issue, in the same sense that any matter as such with regards the flesh, as with food and drinks, or respect of days (including sabbath days), etc., should not be an issue.

So, I'd say that we should not judge one another on such matters, as with regards this matter of Sabbath days. Consider this scriptures: Rom. 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Before Christ's death and resurrection, we have the Jews and the Gentiles. The Jews being those said to be under the Mosaic Law, and the Gentiles, being those who are not. The Jews are in covenant with God which includes the keeping of the Sabbath as written in the book of Moses. Now, the Jews and the Gentiles are two separate people, the Jew, being God's covenant people, and the Gentiles, as scriptures speak of them, are aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. Thus, we can see an obvious difference between the two peoples in this regard, even so, a separation, even having an enmity, because of the covenants.   

After Christ's death and resurrection, we have the Jews, the Gentiles, and the Christian.  Now, the Christian is whom God had created in Christ Jesus, so that he is a new man, whether he is of the Gentiles or of the Jews. He belongs to the body of Christ, and of the household of God.

Consider what the scriptures says regarding the Christians, with regards their former person (Jew and Gentile, even the enmity that is between the two), and what Christ have done about this.

Ephesians 2:14-16
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Having laid that out, here's what scriptures say to the Christian with regards the issue you bring up on the Sabbath.

Colossians 2:13-16
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We can clearly see that the Christian is not under the law of Moses, which includes even the Sabbath. Paul even have clearly stated "ye are not under the law, but under grace".

Having said that, one must be quick to note, that this is not saying that the Christian is not to fulfill the law. For in this regard, the scriptures says "all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself". Love is the fulfilling of the law.

[Amo]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

None of the ten commandments are addressed in the second chapter of Colossians. The ten commandments are not shadows of anything, we are admonished to keep them from one end of scripture to the other. The sabbath days mentioned are at the end of a list of other laws written by the hand of Moses specifically for the literal nation of Israel. They are sabbaths connected with the same, not the ten commandments which were written by the finger of God. It is not possible that the sabbath of the fourth commandment is one of the commandments and doctrines of men Paul was speaking of in Col. 2 as verse 22 of the same clearly points out. Those who wish to place Paul's testimony in opposition to Christ's, claim he was speaking of the fourth commandment in the verses under examination.

The following verses are examples of the ceremonial sabbaths Israel was to keep that were separate from the sabbath of the fourth commandment. these are the sabbaths referred to by Paul in Col. 2.

Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever. 32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:

Leviticus 23:23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord......................
31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath. 33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,....................
37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord. 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.