Why the Law Is Not Abolished, Yet Circumcision, Festivals, Sabbaths Not Observed

[cgaviria]

CG said...

Your answers are too long, so I'm going to keep this short, because it doesn't take much to throw everything you're saying out the door.

You demonstrate your ignorance of the Scriptures, my friend. There is nothing that you can say to 'overthrow' what I have given you to consider, except for the fact that you are not even considering what you have been shown. That is bias defending, not truth seeking...

A simple answer should suffice, if you are right.

Again, you demonstrate ignorance not only of the Scriptures, but how to correctly interpret them. You cannot take one "simple" passage for any stand...for or against the point of the OP, or for or against any subject matter in the Scriptures...and for you to think that you can, demonstrates that ignorance. You do not know very much about Biblical Hermeneutics, do you?

Let us begin with one simple scripture, Jesus Christ said this,

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17 [NIV])

So if Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the law, why do you teach that the law is abolished? You're teaching the opposite of this scripture.

Negative, young padowan. The FACT that I can produce (and have produced) 7 passages that clearly state that the law of Moses has been abrogated, and that you can only come up with one (which you are misinterpreting for your cause) that you *think* states otherwise...is evidence that you are arguing out of your bias rather than out of the Scriptures and their intended meaning.

Use the "long answer" excuse all you want to in effort to short circuit my posts, but you will fail nonetheless because you are in error. Paul theoretically shuts your mouth here...

Galatians 3:10
Because as many as adhere to the works of the law of Moses are under a curse: because it is written, "Cursed are all those who do not persevere in all that is written in the book of the law, to do them.

and

Galatians 5:2-3
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

This is what you are telling people...and it is the same thing that others were saying that Paul was trying to save people from...

Acts 15:1
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."

Acts 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."

As I state earlier which you evidently ignored, regarding the verse you consistently keep misinterpreting...

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

1.  He had already fulfilled all the law, because if He had not, then He would not have been able to begin His Messianic ministry. He fulfilled all the law in His first 30 years of life...and if you disagree with that fact, then you have greater problems in your theology than you first appear to have.

2.  Having already fulfilled all the law, He abrogated it when He inaugurated the New Covenant at His baptism; from that moment forward, all that He did was in teaching about the New Covenant kingdom of God. Again, if you disagree on that point, then you are in really deep water.

3.  Jesus used the exact same teaching style which He utilized in addressing John the Baptist being the fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy...

Matthew 17:10-13
10 And the disciples asked him, "Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?"
11 He answered, "Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.
12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands."
13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

The only difference between how Jesus taught here about John, and about how He came to fulfill the law, is that in the passage above He immediately explains, AFTER speaking about Elijah as if his coming was still future tense, He explained to them that "Elijah has already come." Understand?

If you understood covenanting in this manner, then you would understand that with the inauguration of the New Covenant, the Old was automatically disanulled...if it has not been, then the New Covenant can not come into authority, and we are all still in our sins, needing to daily sacrifice animals for our sins.

Again, you are a modern day Pharisee, and you are in great error.

So is the law abolished, yes or no? Pick one.

[Alan]

Not abolished but fulfilled, as Jesus said.

[bel]

Alan, the Law of God is still in effect today. Jesus did not amend or change any of the Law. He fulfilled it, meaning He measured up to the requirements of the Law.

[Jaime]

Or fulfill meaning filled it up to its intended meaning including Spirit, not just letter of the Law. The Jews had emptied the Law. Jesus said he didn't come to do that but to fill it up (to the extent the Father intended). Then proceeded to describe how in the entirety of the Sermon on the Mount.

[cgaviria]

Not abolished but fulfilled, as Jesus said.

Is it though? The spring festivals in the Law are fulfilled, the Passover, Pentecost, First Fruits, Feat of Unleavened bread.... all beginning at the time of the first coming of Jesus Christ, but what about the autumn feasts in the law? Feat of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Booths. Have these been fulfilled? As you say, "the law has been fulfilled". You obviously don't even understand what it means.

[Jaime]

Fulfilled = filled up that which was emptied. Exactly what Jesus did in Mathew 5. We have erroneously associated fulfill with do away with. That which Jesus said he DID NOT come to do. And no the Fall feasts nhave NOT been "fulfilled" as the Spring feasts have.

[cgaviria]

Fulfilled = filled up that which was emptied. Exactly what Jesus did in Mathew 5. We have erroneously associated fulfill with do away with. That which Jesus said he DID NOT come to do. And no the Fall feasts nhave NOT been "fulfilled" as the Spring feasts have.

Precisely my point. The Law has not been fulfilled yet, but it has begun to be fulfilled since the time of Jesus Christ. The Law will entirely be fulfilled at the last thousands years of this heaven and earth. Which is why it is said, "until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass from the law..." It's not so difficult to understand. But because these people love their wicked ways they want to distort scripture to try to get it to mean that the Law is fulfilled and abolished. How foolish, and my oh my, what words they will be met with on the day of judgment, "depart from me you worker of LAW-LESSness."

[Amo]

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Regardless of what fulfilled meant, the underlined above is quite clear. Forming a theology that does away with the observance of the details of one of God's commandments, would certainly fall under the designation of breaking the commandment and teaching others to do so as well.

[Jaime]

Question:
What does obeying rhe Spirit of the law as Jesus preached in Mathew 5, as opposed to the Letter of the Law that the Jews had boiled it down to?

Did Jesus raise or lower the bar with his re-interpretation of the Law, or did he throw the bar away?

[Alan]

Or fulfill meaning filled it up to its intended meaning including Spirit, not just letter of the Law. The Jews had emptied the Law. Jesus said he didn't come to do that but to fill it up (to the extent the Father intended). Then proceeded to describe how in the entirety of the Sermon on the Mount.

Exactly!!!! People are so lost in the fulfillment of the law. 

[Alan]

Not abolished but fulfilled, as Jesus said.

Is it though? The spring festivals in the Law are fulfilled, the Passover, Pentecost, First Fruits, Feat of Unleavened bread.... all beginning at the time of the first coming of Jesus Christ, but what about the autumn feasts in the law? Feat of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Booths. Have these been fulfilled? As you say, "the law has been fulfilled". You obviously don't even understand what it means.

See post #38, that is everything you need to know regarding fulfillment of the law. 

[bel]

 From what I understand, the Jewish people were not following the divine Law of God. They had gone astray and established their own law. Jesus explained the whole Law of God in it's entirety and followed it. As Amo has mentioned, we should also be following it and  teaching this to our children as well.

[Jaime]

They had emptied or abolished Torah (the Law) by only focusing on the Letter of the Law and ignoring the Spirit of the Law. Jesus corrected them in Mathew 5.

[Pkbrother]

The law of Moses is difficult to understand without being raised up under it.......
JEwish believers in the past and today seem to have a better understanding.......although still struggle...
The covenant of Abraham was greater than the covenant of Moses....
This was the promise of the seed from Judh to messiah...
Glations 3:15-18
The law cannot annul the covenant that it should make the promise of no effect.....
Hebrews sepnds the entire book showing that Jesus did not come through the law as through Aaron but came through Judah....
Hebrews 7:11-14
Our Lord rose from Judah.....v.14
Jews had a tendency to exalt the law of Moses greater than the promise of Abraham???
Hebrews 3:3.     ONe who is counted worthy of more glory than Moses......

Remeber the law of Moses was enacted because of the trangression of Israel 400 years in Egypt...
Galations 3:19.   It was added because of trangressions till the seed should come....
The law of Moses is not done away with it just has a different function......
Like each meber of a family has a different function......not good or bad just diffrent.....

The law is there to show us our sins
Romans. 7:7.  I would not have known sin if it were not for the law.....

The law does not justify us just simply shows us our sins....
Much like a police officer does not justify us ....that is up to a judge...he just writes tickets.....
But if you remove police from most cities you will have caos....
Some cities fall into caos if the lights go off for a few hours
It is the same with some Christians and some churches......

Romans 7:12
So the law is holy, and just and good.

In Psalms 19:7-9.   The law is divided into 6 categories
Commandments.   Fear of the Lord.    Judgements of the Lord
Law.   Testimonies.    Statutes(precepts, principles>......
These statutes defined as principles are what is carried over from the law of Moses
These were brought out by Jesus and the disciples....
Hebrews 10:1
The law was a shadow.....

Since we as Gentiles have been 1900 years from our Jewish roots and therfore the OT and the law it is difficult to understand.......
Remeber all 13 apostles and all writers of the entire Bible were Hebrew accept Luke.....

Jews lean toward justification by works...while gentiles lean toward reasoning.....
1 corinthians 1:22.   Jews seek a sign.  ...gentiles seek after wisdom.......

As gentiles we must be careful not. to cast off the law as worhtless or the OT as not inspired while the NT is inspired.........

Over the past 60 years in America church has lost its grip on law and order of the OT and NT and substituted....what every man thinks is right in his own eyes...
Judges 18:1.  There was no king(authority) and every man did what was right in his own eyes.....

I believe if we look back at the 1 st century apostles and church we will see that the church had a much stricter code of conduct and order than what we have today ....especially in the area of holiness....

If apostle Paul came came into our churches today and enacted the same judgemsents and rules he enacted at corinth...i believe half of our congregations would label hima hereitc and false teacher.
Which is exactly what they did at corinth where he never returned......

[bel]

Jaime, How does one go about following Torah in the Spirit?
For example, Lev. 12:2:7 outlines the ritual law of purification after childbirth. Verse 6 states, "When the days of her purification are fulfilled, whether for a son or daughter, she shall bring to the priest a lamb of the first year as a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtle dove as a sin offering, to the door of the tabernacle meeting."

I can guarantee you that Jesus did not follow this law. Having a baby is not a sin. In fact, children are a blessing from God. The reason this was abolished was because it is not a Law of God. 

[Jaime]

Jesus said several times, you have heard that the Law says such and such, but I say to you thus.......

It's not good enough just to not murder. We are to not have anger in our hearts. It's not enough to just not commit the act of adultery, we are not to lust after someone in our heart. Jesus RAISED the bar. That is living the Spirit of the Law. The Spirit or essence encompassed in the phrase "love God and love your neighbor as yourself."

[Amo]

Jesus did not fail in His mission. He fulfilled the law. If we want to pick up our crosses and follow Him, we have His perfect example before us.

[Jaime]

No one said he failed. He filled up what had been emptied out of the Law.......the inclusion of the Spirit of the Law where it had been emptied as the entire context of Mathew 5 clearly proclaims.

[bel]

Jaime, I think the question for cgaviria is: Why are we not following all 613 commandments in the Torah? If Jesus filled up the Law  with the Spirit, then we should still be following the Torah "in the Spirit", if the Torah is the Law. On the contrary, Jesus was basically challenging what the Jewish people considered to be the Law of God. If we believe what Jesus proclaimed to be the truth,  that these are the Laws and the ways of the one true God, then we should do away with all other beliefs and follow Him.

[Jaime]

I think we definitely should follow the spirit of the Law, which is summed in the statement, love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Are you saying we shouldn't obey the apirit of the law in this way or was Jesus just flapping his gums?

[Pkbrother]

Every word of God is forever fixed in the heavens.....psalm 119:89
Hebrews 13:8.   God is thee same yesterday today and forever.......

All of the law is important but the fruits of the Spirit are most important

For example these are lesser issues of the law as stated by Jesus and apostles in NT
1. Eatting of certain foods......
            Keeps us healthy and fasting can help keep us from glutony
   Remeber the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit
2.  Tithing.....
      can keep us out of financial problems, put God first in financies and keep us from coveting
3.  keepeing sabbaths and holy days
      Helps keep us from being a workaholic...also gives us specific times to worship and fellowship

However if you do not keep these you are going to be extremely unhealthy have financial problems and stressed out at your job.

[bel]

Jaime, maybe I should have worded my post better. What I was trying to say is that Jesus taught us the entire Law of God, which are the true eternal divine Laws of God and His ways. Yes, I definitely believe that we should all be following Him in the Spirit. I have no problem in believing that some of the 613 commandments in the Torah are man-made laws, and that they were abolished because they were not Laws of God. Take Lev. 19:27 for example. 'You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard." This is obviously a law created by man. If it was a Law of God, it would still be in effect today because as Pkbrother has mentioned "every word of God is forever fixed in the heavens", and "God is the same yesterday, today and forever."

[Alan]

Jaime, maybe I should have worded my post better. What I was trying to say is that Jesus taught us the entire Law of God, which are the true eternal divine Laws of God and His ways. Yes, I definitely believe that we should all be following Him in the Spirit. I have no problem in believing that some of the 613 commandments in the Torah are man-made laws, and that they were abolished because they were not Laws of God. Take Lev. 19:27 for example. 'You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard." This is obviously a law created by man. If it was a Law of God, it would still be in effect today because as Pkbrother has mentioned "every word of God is forever fixed in the heavens", and "God is the same yesterday, today and forever."

No, this is just not true. Every Levitical law was given by God to the Israelites. The hard part for Christian law keepers to accept is that the law in it's nature was a curse, as no man could EVER keep every law, hence why Jesus fulfilled the law, with His sacrifice on the cross for our sins and in the power of His resurrection it was accomplished.

[Jaime]

God had to deal with the Israelites in a specific way. They had been in Egypt for 400 years, and his reason for all the laws was to get Egypt out of THEM. The Law was their tutor. As time went on, the Jews were good at building fences within the Law. In other words they devised safeguards so that one would not break the Sabbath. Jesus came to reinterpret Torah and fill up the Spirit of the Law where it had been removed or in some cases never existed. Example, Jesus told them of course it is right to "do good" on the Sabbath, which goes against the typical letter of the Law interpretation. Instead of 10 major commandments and 613 smaller ones, Jesus said all of that is encompassed in and summed up in: "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." In that statement, he filled full the law. Now we are not JUST held to the standard of not murdering or committing adultery, we are held to the standard of not harboring anger or lust in our heart. A higher bar, if you will.

[RB]

So is the law abolished, yes or no? Pick one.

The correct answer would be YES and NO!

1st Timothy 1:7,8~"Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;"

Coming back and present how both sides are correct, both sides are in error.

[Amo]

The problem has never been with the law or ten commandments, they are spiritual as Paul himself testifies.

Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The ten commandments are spiritual, holy, just, and good. They could be nothing else for they proceeded forth out of the mouth of God. It is and has been our narrow view and application of the law that is seriously lacking. None of the commandments need to change, we need to change. They do not need to change in relation to us or our salvation, we need to change in relation to them for our salvation. We must accept the death of ourselves that they demand in Christ Jesus our perfect Lord and example, and change our attitude as willful lawbreakers, to repentant law keepers.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Anyone who wants to know what walking in the spirit looks like, can and should carefully study the life and teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is not rocket science, it only becomes complicated because of sin and our unending desire to commit it. Therefore do we cloud the issue and murk the waters of simplistic truth. We have the exact same problem as Israel, at times they abandoned God's commandments, at other times they wrongfully applied and forced them upon all they could. Both problems exist today, though the former is I believe more prevalent. The command to love God with all our heart, and our neighbor as ourselves is not a new command, Jesus was simply addressing fallen humanities main problem once again.


Ex 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Le 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.......................................................................................34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

De 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

De 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

De 10:12 ¶ And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

De 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

De 11:1 ¶ Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway................................................................13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day,to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,...................................22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

De 19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day,to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:

De 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.................................................20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Jos 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Ne 5:5 ¶ And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 ¶ Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Da 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Love has always been pointed out as the prerequisite to proper observance or obedience to the commandments of God. In stating this truth once again, our Lord and Savior did not infer any change in the ten commandments of God at all, but rather once again a change in our perception and attitude in relation to the law. All suggestions to the contrary are just more clouds and murky waters of our own creation.

[bel]

Alan, if every Levitical law was given by God to the Israelites, then we have a problem with these verses:
Jeremiah 7:21-23 "Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; 'Add your burnt offerings to your sarifices and eat meat' For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offering and sacrifices. But this is what I commanded them, saying 'Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the ways that I commanded you, that it may be well with you."

The Law of God, His commandments and His ways, are not a curse. In fact, when we follow Him they bring righteousness and life.
Psalm 111:7-8 "The works of His hands are verity and justice; All His precepts are sure. They stand forever and ever, and are done in truth and righteousness."
Psalm 112:1-2 "Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who delights greatly in His commandments. His descendants will be mighty on earth; the generation of the upright will be blessed."

As I mentioned in another thread, the Laws of God was there in the beginning of mankind. Just as we cannot change scientific or mathematical laws, neither can we change the Laws of operation for man. We either follow them or things fall apart, and there will be destruction and chaos.

[Pkbrother]

To answer the question was the law abolished.......no
JEsus restored the correct meaning of the Law.......

Matthew 5
HE corrected mans wrong interpretation of the law.....
You have heard it said...but I say........
He also expanded the deaper  meaning of the law of Moses

In other words He restored the original meaninig of hat God wanted all along

Matthew 19:8
Moses permitted yout to divorce,
But from the beginning it was not so.

He reatored things back to the beginning

[Truthcomber]

Howdy All,


Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments (Matt 5:1-16) , and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Comment: What have both the commandments of God (1 Cor 9:21) and the testimony of Jesus Christ?  I Believe that it is Matt 5:1-16.



Law #1 The Royal Law of Liberty

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well... ...13...and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2 Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:...12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Comment: What commandments were written in stone for the house of Israel?  Why it was the Ten Commandments.  The old commandments in the new will vanish when all fulfill the new (Matt 5:1-16). When we love God with our whole hearts and love our neighbor as our selves, we do what is contained in the moral law. 

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

John 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only (one of kind) Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be (G4982 or will be)

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/3-17.htm

Comment: Christ fulfilled all of the law when he died for us.   

[Truthcomber]

Howdy All,

Law #2 The Moral Law


Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (OT law), do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all...12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy...

Comment: The gentiles did not have the Ten Commandments.  But they do have the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments. 

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Romans 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Comment: When we love God above all things and our neighbor as ourselves we will be fulfilling the moral law requirements (New Testament law) as Christ did.  When all of mankind has done so, there will be no law (Matt 5:17-18).

Comment: Christ fulfilled all the requirements of the moral law when he died for us.  When all of mankind has done so, there will be no law. 

Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Comment: We sin when we follow the flesh (old man) that was crucified.  The devil in is the lord of the flesh. Life represents God, sin represents the devil.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Comment: If you walk according to the old man, you are under the moral law. 

[bel]

RB, I agree with your yes and no stance on this subject of the law. Deuteronomy 5:1-22 reviews the Law of God. Verse 22 says this: "These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and HE ADDED NO MORE." Man has been given the power to judge according to the Law of God. We can create laws, however, they must be in accordance with or built on the foundation of God's Law. The law becomes a curse because those who seek  power and control will use it for their own purposes. However, God's Law is a blessing in that any who do this will fall to destruction.

As Pkbrother has mentioned, Jesus purified the Law from foreign things and brought it back to the original, everlasting, true Word of God.

[Truthcomber]

Howdy All,



I had written at the beginning of two posts ago:

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments (Matt 5:1-16) , and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Comment: What are both the commandments of God (1 Cor 9:21) and the testimony of Jesus Christ?  I Believe that it is Matt 5:1-16.

 
It should have been:

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments (Matt 5:20-48, 6,7) , and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Comment: What are both the commandments of God (1 Cor 9:21) and the testimony of Jesus Christ?  I Believe that it is (Matt 5:20-48, 6,7). Christ did not destroy the law or the prophets.  He instead expounded on them and showed what is now relevant and not relevant in (Matt 5:20-48, 6,7).

[Truthcomber]

Bel had written:

RB, I agree with your yes and no stance on this subject of the law. Deuteronomy 5:1-22 reviews the Law of God. Verse 22 says this: "These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and HE ADDED NO MORE." Man has been given the power to judge according to the Law of God. We can create laws, however, they must be in accordance with or built on the foundation of God's Law. The law becomes a curse because those who seek  power and control will use it for their own purposes. However, God's Law is a blessing in that any who do this will fall to destruction.

As Pkbrother has mentioned, Jesus purified the Law from foreign things and brought it back to the original, everlasting, true Word of God.





My Response:

He added no more for that precise time in Duet 5:1-22.   Ceremonial ordinances were added later to the "Law".  From what I understand, the law encompasses the whole thing. But notice in Matt 5:21-22,27-28, 31-32, 33-34,38-39,43-44


"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time"..." But I say unto you"  These are all deletions and additions to what is relevant in the OT now relevant in the NT.

[SwordMaster]

SwordMaster, As I wrote in my post, Jesus did not fulfill the 600+laws of the Mosaic Law as interpreted by the leaders of Israel at the time.

According to Lev.17:8-9 "Whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among you, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice and does not bring it to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, to offer it to the Lord, that man shall be cut off."

Deut. 12:11 "then there will be the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide. There you shall bring all I command you: your burnt offerings , your sacrifices your tithes the heave offerings of your hand and all your choice offerings which you vow to the Lord." The people were to bring specific sacrifices as outlined in the Old Testament. Animals such as sheep, oxen, doves and pigeons etc. had to be without blemish. This was not very feasible for the poor, many did not have the "proper" sacrifice and it was also a burden to those who traveled from afar. So selling such things at overinflated prices became a lucrative business.

As I mentioned before, the only Laws that Jesus fulfilled(followed) were the TRUE Laws of God that were there since mankind was first created and always will be. Jesus did not sacrifice animals because this was never required by God. 

Jeremiah 7:22 says this: "For in the day I brought them out of  the Land of Egypt, I did not speak to the fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Isaiah 1:12-14 "When you come to appear before Me, who requires of you this trampling of My courts? Bring your worthless offerings no longer. Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and Sabbath, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts. They have become a burden to Me. I am weary of bearing them. "

bel...any law that God made is a "true law," you are sliding off base with the above.

[SwordMaster]

Hiw do we define "fulfill"?

I tend to look at it as to fill full that which had been emptied. Jesus did that very thing in Mathew 5 in the Sermon on the Mount. He filled full the law that had been emptied to just the Letter of the Law with the Spirit of the Law as God intended. His fulfilling of the law was filling full the Law to the status God intended and not what the Jews had decimated it to.

The Greek word there is pleroo, meaning to fully perform to completeness.

In other words, Jesus fully performed and completed the law without ever breaking it, not even once.