Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?

[th1b.taylor]

Dealing with facts and ignoring Trash Science is critical to productive thought processes.  Dealing from Unproven Theories will never produce truth!  All you have presented here is Trash Science ad is unprovable except one assumes assumptions are true and that is a double edged sword that bounces back into your face.  Where is the proven reassurance, the field trials?  Without those your presentation is all lies!

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYfNYcush4M

There are so many things that just don't fit the theory of evolution.

If "Christian" evolutionists are correct, then the creation account of scripture is either a lie, or one that needs to be interpreted for all by the new evolutionary prophets for the rest of us. Those who supposedly know the real truth, above the testimony of the prophets of God who wrote the scriptures. Genesis 6-10 is also completely false, since this account written by the prophets cannot fit into the evolutionary details provided by our prophets of the same. The following scriptures also either contain lies within or are a lie themselves.

Jos 24:1 And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God. 2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. 3 And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.

Job 22:15 Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? 16 Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood:

Isa 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Lk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

1 Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

2 Pet 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2 Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

If the judgment of God upon humanity through the flood is not true, why should any fear that the future judgment pronounced by the same prophets will or would be true?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


The above is either true or a lie. If it is true then evolution is a lie. If evolution is true then the above is a lie.

Josh 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

[4WD]

AMO,

The mention of the "flood" in Joshua 24:2 and 24:15 is "river" in nearly all other translations and therefore do not help you in your claim.

[The Barbarian]

If "Christian" evolutionists are correct, then the creation account of scripture is either a lie, or one that needs to be interpreted for all by the new evolutionary prophets for the rest of us.

You're off by a little over 1600 years.   The realization that Genesis was not a literal history came about long before Darwin or any sort of evolutionary theory.   

Those who supposedly know the real truth, above the testimony of the prophets of God who wrote the scriptures.

All that traditional Christian believe refutes is the testimony of YE creationists, and their new interpretation of Genesis.

While denying the traditional Christian understanding of Genesis does not put you outside of His people, referring to those who don't agree with you by putting quote marks around the word "Christian" might be a bad idea. 

Have a little humility.     Neither YE creationism, nor acceptance of evolution are requirements for being a Christian.

[4WD]

Have a little humility.     Neither YE creationism, nor acceptance of evolution are requirements for being a Christian.

[Amo]

AMO,

The mention of the "flood" in Joshua 24:2 and 24:15 is "river" in nearly all other translations and therefore do not help you in your claim.

Interesting. Learn something new every day. The verse does seem to make more sense especially if in fact a river was crossed by Abraham in his travels to Canaan. That's another topic altogether though.

This in no way effects the force of the fact that evolutionists must deny the validity of a whole lot of scripture to follow their unbiblical faith. I'd still like to hear an explanation of all the scriptures telling of or referring to the flood, by the evolutionary prophets who refute these scriptures. Are these scripture just a lie, or is there light in them which only the evolutionists know or can explain? Please do address the issue.

[Amo]

You're off by a little over 1600 years.   The realization that Genesis was not a literal history came about long before Darwin or any sort of evolutionary theory.   


All that traditional Christian believe refutes is the testimony of YE creationists, and their new interpretation of Genesis.

While denying the traditional Christian understanding of Genesis does not put you outside of His people, referring to those who don't agree with you by putting quote marks around the word "Christian" might be a bad idea. 

Have a little humility.     Neither YE creationism, nor acceptance of evolution are requirements for being a Christian.

Yes there have always been those who denied the words of God's prophets. Now you are just more of the same.

You are probably right concerning "Christians". This world now has "Christians" which allow for almost anything and everything the bible condemns. Those who place their beliefs and faith in the observations of fallen humanity above the word of God. There is no light in them.

[Amo]

Have a little humility.     Neither YE creationism, nor acceptance of evolution are requirements for being a Christian.

There is no humility in placing the word of man above the word of God. All such is false and deceptive humility. The self destructive humility of the devil himself. The first one to put the authority of his own words above that of God's.

[4WD]

It usually is not the word of God that is at issue.  It is almost always in a particular interpretation of the word of God that there is a problem.

[Amo]

It usually is not the word of God that is at issue.  It is almost always in a particular interpretation of the word of God that there is a problem.

Yea, God's word makes simple conclusive statements, then some reinterpret them to mean whatever they wish.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

[4WD]

Yea, God's word makes simple conclusive statements, then some reinterpret them to mean whatever they wish.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Yes, now look up the Hebrew word yom which is translated "day":

From Strong's:

H3117

יום

yôm

yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.


From Vines OT:

Day

yom (H3117), "daylight; day; time; moment; year." This word also appears in Ugaritic, extrabiblical Hebrew or Canaanite (e.g., the Siloam inscription), Akkadian, Phoenician, and Arabic. It also appears in post-biblical Hebrew. Attested at every era of biblical Hebrew, yom occurs about 2,304 times.
Yom has several meanings. The word represents the period of "daylight" as contrasted with nighttime: "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (Gen_8:22). The word denotes a period of twenty-four hours: "And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day..." (Gen_39:10). Yom can also signify a period of time of unspecified duration: "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Gen_2:3). In this verse, "day" refers to the entire period of God's resting from creating this universe. This "day" began after He completed the creative acts of the seventh day and extends at least to the return of Christ. Compare Gen_2:4 : "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [beyom] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens...." Here "day" refers to the entire period envisioned in the first six days of creation. Another nuance appears in Gen_2:17, where the word represents a "point of time" or "a moment": "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [beyom] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Finally, when used in the plural, the word may represent "year": "Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year [yamim]" (Exo_13:10).
There are several other special nuances of yom when it is used with various prepositions. First, when used with ke ("as," "like"), it can connote "first": "And Jacob said, Sell me this day [first] thy birthright" (Gen_25:31). It may also mean "one day," or "about this day": "And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business..." (Gen_39:11). On Joseph's lips, the phrase connotes "this present result" (literally, "as it is this day"): "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive" (Gen_50:20). Adonijah used this same phrase to represent "today": "Let king Solomon swear unto me today that he will not slay his servant..." (1Ki_1:51). Yet another nuance appears in 1Sa_9:13 : "Now therefore get you up; for about this time ye shall find him." When used with the definite article ha, the noun may mean "today" (as it does in Gen_4:14) or refer to some particular "day" (1Sa_1:4) and the "daytime" (Neh_4:16).
The first biblical occurrence of yom is found in Gen_1:5 : "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." The second use introduces one of the most debated occurrences of the word, which is the duration of the days of creation. Perhaps the most frequently heard explanations are that these "days" are 24 hours long, indefinitely long (i.e., eras of time), or logical rather than temporal categories (i.e., they depict theological categories rather than periods of time).
The "day of the Lord" is used to denote both the end of the age (eschatologically) or some occurrence during the present age (non-eschatologically). It may be a day of either judgment or blessing, or both (cf. Isaiah 2).
It is noteworthy that Hebrew people did not divide the period of daylight into regular hourly periods, whereas nighttime was divided into three watches (Exo_14:24; Jdg_7:19). The beginning of a "day" is sometimes said to be dusk (Est_4:16) and sometimes dawn (Deu_28:66-67).


So much for your simple conclusive statement.  As I said, it is almost never about what God said, it is almost always about one someone thinks God means when He said what He said.

[The Barbarian]

We should always remember that our particular interpretation of scripture can be in error, and be humble enough to recognize that other Christians may have different interpretations, and still be good Christians.

[Amo]

Yes, now look up the Hebrew word yom which is translated "day":

From Strong's:

H3117

יום

yôm

yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.


From Vines OT:

Day

yom (H3117), "daylight; day; time; moment; year." This word also appears in Ugaritic, extrabiblical Hebrew or Canaanite (e.g., the Siloam inscription), Akkadian, Phoenician, and Arabic. It also appears in post-biblical Hebrew. Attested at every era of biblical Hebrew, yom occurs about 2,304 times.
Yom has several meanings. The word represents the period of "daylight" as contrasted with nighttime: "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (Gen_8:22). The word denotes a period of twenty-four hours: "And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day..." (Gen_39:10). Yom can also signify a period of time of unspecified duration: "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Gen_2:3). In this verse, "day" refers to the entire period of God's resting from creating this universe. This "day" began after He completed the creative acts of the seventh day and extends at least to the return of Christ. Compare Gen_2:4 : "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [beyom] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens...." Here "day" refers to the entire period envisioned in the first six days of creation. Another nuance appears in Gen_2:17, where the word represents a "point of time" or "a moment": "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [beyom] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Finally, when used in the plural, the word may represent "year": "Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year [yamim]" (Exo_13:10).
There are several other special nuances of yom when it is used with various prepositions. First, when used with ke ("as," "like"), it can connote "first": "And Jacob said, Sell me this day [first] thy birthright" (Gen_25:31). It may also mean "one day," or "about this day": "And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business..." (Gen_39:11). On Joseph's lips, the phrase connotes "this present result" (literally, "as it is this day"): "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive" (Gen_50:20). Adonijah used this same phrase to represent "today": "Let king Solomon swear unto me today that he will not slay his servant..." (1Ki_1:51). Yet another nuance appears in 1Sa_9:13 : "Now therefore get you up; for about this time ye shall find him." When used with the definite article ha, the noun may mean "today" (as it does in Gen_4:14) or refer to some particular "day" (1Sa_1:4) and the "daytime" (Neh_4:16).
The first biblical occurrence of yom is found in Gen_1:5 : "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." The second use introduces one of the most debated occurrences of the word, which is the duration of the days of creation. Perhaps the most frequently heard explanations are that these "days" are 24 hours long, indefinitely long (i.e., eras of time), or logical rather than temporal categories (i.e., they depict theological categories rather than periods of time).
The "day of the Lord" is used to denote both the end of the age (eschatologically) or some occurrence during the present age (non-eschatologically). It may be a day of either judgment or blessing, or both (cf. Isaiah 2).
It is noteworthy that Hebrew people did not divide the period of daylight into regular hourly periods, whereas nighttime was divided into three watches (Exo_14:24; Jdg_7:19). The beginning of a "day" is sometimes said to be dusk (Est_4:16) and sometimes dawn (Deu_28:66-67).


So much for your simple conclusive statement.  As I said, it is almost never about what God said, it is almost always about one someone thinks God means when He said what He said.

Yea like I said, God makes a simple conclusive statement, and some people turn it into whatever they wish. For the last 4 thousand years the Jews and others have been keeping the seventh day sabbath according to the commandment, but God didn't even mean literal days when speaking it. That makes a lot of sense. Then He even punished Israel many times over for not keeping that literal seventh day as commanded, yet He didn't even mean a literal day when He said it. Yea, that makes a lot of sense. Deception always complicates that which is simple. 

[4WD]

AMO. what is the meaning of the word "day" in Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, ?

[Amo]

From Strong's:

H3117

יום

yôm

yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

I took the liberty of emphasizing a most important element of determining when the word day means more than a literal one or not. When it is not, the scriptures themselves help define this by an associated term, explanation, or straight up testimony to the contrary. On the other hand no doubt, when God intends that all should know it surely does mean a single literal day, He does the same that all should understand this as well. As in the creation account when he referred to each day with an evening and a morning. These are associated terms that unquestionably point to a literal single day. Accepting of course for those who simply refuse to allow scripture to speak for itself. You shared the above from Strong's, will you not heed it's own recommendations. Please do show us how you will explain this away as well. Just how much more complicated can you make the subject according to your deception?

As far as that which you shared from Vines OT, this is the opinion of just another man such as yourself, that is all. God absolutely did not rest from creation to the first coming of Christ. During that time He was very busy dealing with the fall of humanity, and the constant backsliding of His professed people. Since the fall He has been continually working and striving to get fallen humanity to enter into His rest, that they might be saved from the sinfulness of their own works.

[Amo]

AMO. what is the meaning of the word "day" in Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, ?

Strong's

8435 towldah to-led-aw' or toldah {to-led-aw'}; from 3205; (plural only) descent, i.e. family; (figuratively) history:--birth, generations.

It means this is the history of the birth of this world. The order of its creation.

Genesis 2:4New King James Version (NKJV)

4 This is the history[a] of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:4Amplified Bible (AMP)

4 This is the history of [the origin of] the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [that is, days of creation] that the [a]Lord God made the earth and the heavens—

Genesis 2:4Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

4 This is the history of the heavens and of the earth when they were created. In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens—

Genesis 2:4Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

Man and Woman in the Garden

4 These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation. At the time[a] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Genesis 2:4Common English Bible (CEB)

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

World's creation in the garden
On the day the Lord God made earth and sky—

Genesis 2:4Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

(A: iv, S: ii) 4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven,

Genesis 2:4Contemporary English Version (CEV)

4 That's how God created the heavens and the earth.

The Garden of Eden
When the Lord God made the heavens and the earth,

Genesis 2:4Darby Translation (DARBY)

4 These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,

Genesis 2:4Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

The First Man and the Garden of Eden
4 This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the Lord God made the earth and the sky.

Genesis 2:4GOD'S WORD Translation (GW)

The Creation of Man and Woman
4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Genesis 2:4Good News Translation (GNT)

4 And that is how the universe was created.

The Garden of Eden
When the Lord[a] God made the universe,

Genesis 2:4Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Man and Woman in the Garden
4 These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation at the time[a] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4International Standard Version (ISV)

Humans in the Garden
4 These are the records of the universe at its[a] creation. On the day that the Lord God made the universe,

Genesis 2:4Modern English Version (MEV)

Adam and Eve
4 This is the account[a] of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:4New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

I. The Story of the Nations
The Garden of Eden. 4 This is the story[a] of the heavens and the earth at their creation. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens—

Genesis 2:4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 [a]This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Genesis 2:4New English Translation (NET Bible)

The Creation of Man and Woman
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created—when the Lord God made the earth and heavens.

Genesis 2:4New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

Adam and Eve
4 Here is the story of the heavens and the earth when they were created. The Lord God made the earth and the heavens.



Genesis 2:4New International Version (NIV)

Adam and Eve
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

Adam and Eve
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

Genesis 2:4Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

4 These be the generations of heaven and of earth, in the day wherein the Lord God made heaven and earth, (These be the generations, or the creation, of the heavens and the earth, in the days when the Lord God made the heavens and the earth,)

[4WD]

As far as that which you shared from Vines OT, this is the opinion of just another man such as yourself, that is all. God absolutely did not rest from creation to the first coming of Christ.

It doesn't say God rested from creation to the first coming of Christ.  It says God rested from "...all his work that he had done in creation."  Many would argue that He is still resting from His work of creation and will until He creates the next "heaven and earth" (2 Pet 3:13).

And by the way, you still didn't answer how long was the "day" in Genesis 2:4.

[Amo]

It doesn't say God rested from creation to the first coming of Christ.  It says God rested from "...all his work that he had done in creation."  Many would argue that He is still resting from His work of creation and will until He creates the next "heaven and earth" (2 Pet 3:13).

And by the way, you still didn't answer how long was the "day" in Genesis 2:4.

My bad.

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Gen_2:3). In this verse, "day" refers to the entire period of God's resting from creating this universe. This "day" began after He completed the creative acts of the seventh day and extends at least to the return of Christ.

It was until at least His second coming.

The meaning of the word day in Gen 2:4 is made evident by the context and terms used surrounding it.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.  4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The word day refers to the time period of creation, the six days God created it in, and the seventh day on which He rested. This is what the context and related term generations suggests. Just as the words day in relation to each day of creation were a single day as the terms morning and evening attached to each one of them unquestionably suggests. Which suggestion you ignore or deny because you don't want to believe in a six day creation, or young earth. I'm not the one ignoring context or related terms here, you are.

I wouldn't describe being full time involved in the salvation of rebellious humanity, rest. Especially when doing so involved God becoming a human being, being tempted as we are, being falsely accused, persecuted, hated, beaten, tortured, and crucified for that salvation, would you? Perhaps those whose chosen beliefs require such a contradictory view, must incorporate the same. I have no such dilemma.

[Amo]

A few more articles concerning rapid formation in contrast to the false claims of the need of millions of years and evolution to be where we are now.

http://creation.com/rapid-stalactites

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/rocks-and-minerals/rapid-opals-outback/

http://creation.com/the-rapid-formation-of-granitic-rocks-more-evidence

http://creation.com/rapid-formation-of-the-mount-isa-orebodies

http://youngearth.com/grand-canyon-nautiloids

https://www.livescience.com/8312-canyons-form-quickly-gusher-suggests.html

[The Barbarian]

 

https://www.livescience.com/8312-canyons-form-quickly-gusher-suggests.html

Actually, it's been known for a very long time that a huge release of water can scour out canyons in relatively short time.  Decades ago, the scablands were determined to be the result of a sudden flood when Lake Missoula suddenly broke out of a glacial trap.   It was a model for the Martian canyons that seem to have been similarly formed.   What can't happen suddenly is this:



This sort of formation can only happen over millions of years, in a rejuvenated river where the bed becomes trapped and cuts deeper and deeper into stone.

[The Barbarian]

http://creation.com/the-rapid-formation-of-granitic-rocks-more-evidence

This belief would be easy to support.   Just make some granite in the laboratory.   It's easy to melt the minerals found in granite if you have a proper furnace.

But getting them to solidify into separate crystals, that's another thing entirely.    There are granites only a few thousand years old, but the crystals are almost microscopic.    The longer the hardening process takes, the larger the crystals.

[th1b.taylor]

It is truly sad that you and your friends, I assume you have a group of like minded people, have tried to limit the power because that does not mean He has not sent this reat delusion you imagine o believe Barb.

[The Barbarian]

It is truly sad that you and your friends, I assume you have a group of like minded people, have tried to limit the power because that does not mean He has not sent this reat delusion you imagine o believe Barb.

If you have to gin up all sorts of non-scriptural miracles to support your new interpretation of Genesis, shouldn't that be telling you something?

[th1b.taylor]

If you have to gin up all sorts of non-scriptural miracles to support your new interpretation of Genesis, shouldn't that be telling you something?

I am not the one ginning things up, that is you and the
Devil.  I am obeying Jesus when He said we must believe as a small child.  When all of my children were small they thought I was a every word that came out of my mouth
they thought I was a genius and they questioned nothing and thought I was the toughest and roughest and coud beat anyone up.  Sad to say but you are not bekieving that way.

[Amo]

If you have to gin up all sorts of non-scriptural miracles to support your new interpretation of Genesis, shouldn't that be telling you something?

I wonder just what non-scriptural miracles you are referring to? Would you mind sharing them with us?

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian suggests:
If you have to gin up all sorts of non-scriptural miracles to support your new interpretation of Genesis, shouldn't that be telling you something?

I am not the one ginning things up

But you are.    When you see something that could not have happened as creationists say it did, it's wrong to imagine a new miracle to cover the problem.

I am obeying Jesus when He said we must believe as a small child.

Then why not accept His word as it is, without adding new miracles?

Why add things to make your own ideas fit?

[KiwiChristian]

Dear Evolutionist.

What is one evidence for evolution, please?

[Alan]

Dear Evolutionist.

What is one evidence for evolution, please?

Bacteria is one evidence that we can observe in motion, it evolves to resist new antibiotics and evolves to produce new enzymes that are responsible for maintaining life in vertebrates.
Here is another quick and short link that gets straight to the point.

http://evolutionfaq.com/articles/five-proofs-evolution


Could go on all day posting links to research but I doubt it will be absorbed or even given an objective study.

[Amo]

Barbarian suggests:
If you have to gin up all sorts of non-scriptural miracles to support your new interpretation of Genesis, shouldn't that be telling you something?

But you are.    When you see something that could not have happened as creationists say it did, it's wrong to imagine a new miracle to cover the problem.

Then why not accept His word as it is, without adding new miracles?

Why add things to make your own ideas fit?

I guess your not going to tell us what non scriptural miracles you were referring to.

[The Barbarian]

Dear Evolutionist.

What is one evidence for evolution, please?

Here's  few:

Observed speciations.

Observed fitness increasing in populations under natural selection

Huge number of predicted transitional forms either alive or in the fossil record

Zero transitional forms where evolutionary theory says there shouldn't be any

Genetics, showing the same nested hierarchy of species in a family tree of all living things

Molecular data showing heme and collagen molecules of dinosaurs are more like those of birds than of modern reptiles

Suboptimal structures like human hips, backs, and feet, that show common descent from 4-legged animals.

[The Barbarian]

I guess your not going to tell us what non scriptural miracles you were referring to.

Just showed you one. 



Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.

And the response was that:

I assume you have a group of like minded people, have tried to limit the power because that does not mean He has not sent this reat delusion you imagine o believe Barb.

Can God set aside the rules by which He makes this world work?  Sure, He can.  But if you try to cover up the problems with your new doctrine by imagining unscriptural miracles, then any belief is equally valid.

[Amo]

Just showed you one. 



Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.

And the response was that:
Can God set aside the rules by which He makes this world work?  Sure, He can.  But if you try to cover up the problems with your new doctrine by imagining unscriptural miracles, then any belief is equally valid.

Just exactly how is this photo a non scriptural miracle? You and others presume that what we see could only come about over the course of millions of years, and that makes it a non scriptural miracle. Is that it? BALONEY! You have no idea what varying results could transpire from a global catastrophic flood, which included changing the entire surface of the earth when the fountains of the deep erupted, and flood waters wreaked havoc upon the same for many years to come as they slowly receded shifting and moving the surface of the earth in ways we cannot imagine. Countless millions of tons of water and mud moving about rapidly and creating destruction and mass burials all the while. Your photo is easily just much of the same creating a channel following a path of least resistance during the same. This is not to mention the many more minor catastrophes and convulsions of the earth taking place in succession as the world settled into its new form of water and land placement, or should I say displacement.

No doubt for many decades if not centuries after the flood the surface of the earth was much softer and more pliable than it was originally, or is now after so many thousands of years of settling and intense pressure from the sheer mass of it all. Things you presume would take millions of years would happen much more rapidly in such an environment. As a scoffer though, what would you know of these things.

2 Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Your are willingly ignorant of these truths of scripture, therefore is there no light in you pertaining to them. Thus you turn to the supposed experts of this world for light, over the testimony of the word of God.

[KiwiChristian]

Just showed you one. 



Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.

And the response was that:
Can God set aside the rules by which He makes this world work?  Sure, He can.  But if you try to cover up the problems with your new doctrine by imagining unscriptural miracles, then any belief is equally valid.

Of course this could of happened in a single flood. What? You think the flood was slow and calm?

[KiwiChristian]

Here's  few:

Observed speciations.

Observed fitness increasing in populations under natural selection

Huge number of predicted transitional forms either alive or in the fossil record

Zero transitional forms where evolutionary theory says there shouldn't be any

Genetics, showing the same nested hierarchy of species in a family tree of all living things

Molecular data showing heme and collagen molecules of dinosaurs are more like those of birds than of modern reptiles

Suboptimal structures like human hips, backs, and feet, that show common descent from 4-legged animals.

I see you are not too good at reading comprehension.

I asked for ONE.

Now, lets discuss things ONE at a time.

"Observed speciations."

Oh, variations within a kind happen. But they are still the same kind of animal.

We get big dogs, little dogs, black dogs and brown dogs.

But they are STILL a dog!

This is NOT evidence they all came from soup 4.6 billion years ago or that dogs and cats are related.

[Amo]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-human-evolution

Just another link in the supposed evolutionary chain, breaking. Surprise, surprise, variation in skull types is not necessarily proof of different species and or evolutionary process of development, as supposed. Evolutionists admit that if these skulls found together were found separately, they would have been deemed different species and stages of evolutionary development. No telling how much more of evolutionary conjecture is just as flawed. Time will continue to tell no doubt, as it already has.