About Mass ?

[winsome]

Roman Catholics borrowed the idea of praying with beads from the pagan religions who were already using them hundreds of years before: In 456 AD, Hindus are thought to have introduced the concept of praying with beads to the world. The earliest reference to a rosary (boberkhas) is in their "Jain Canon" (456 AD) These boberkhas had various numbers of beads 6,9,12,18,36 (any sub-multiple of 108) Islam (610 AD) uses a rosary of 99 beads, one for each of the names of God. Buddhists have 108 prayer beads on the string. The Rosary is of pagan origin and no Christian prior to 1000 AD used beads to pray.

This is rubbish and totally irrelevant to the topic.

Why do you do it? Can't you resist Catholic bashing?

Do you have to post a quota of anti-Catholic garbage each day?|

This sort of stuff really p*sses me off.

Good bye.

[KiwiChristian]

We will ALL find out when we die, not until that time.

But it will be too late then to do anything about it.

The time for being saved is NOW!

[Alan]

But it will be too late then to do anything about it.

The time for being saved is NOW!

If a person believes they are doing all they can to achieve everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven, then their goal is being achieved, but at the end of the day none of us truly know for certain.

[grams]

You   are saved  upon  Belief in Jesus and the  Cross   !   Of course  GOD   first !!!!!!!!!!

EPH: 2:

7

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9

Not of works, lest any man should boast.


10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:

1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

[soterion]

If a person believes they are doing all they can to achieve everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven, then their goal is being achieved, but at the end of the day none of us truly know for certain.

1 John 5:13.
I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

God wants His people to know their status with Him.

[Alan]

1 John 5:13.
I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

God wants His people to know their status with Him.

Can you put that verse in context to show what is being described in "Ï have written these things..."


Anyhow, yes I do believe that God wants us to be secure but at the same time I don't give merit to one denomination over another that have or have not secured their salvation.  ALL devout Christians believe they are on the correct path.

[KiwiChristian]

Can you put that verse in context to show what is being described in "Ï have written these things..."


Anyhow, yes I do believe that God wants us to be secure but at the same time I don't give merit to one denomination over another that have or have not secured their salvation.  ALL devout Christians believe they are on the correct path.

True. But, Christianity isn't a denomination or religion.

the "church" is an organism, not an organisation.

The true church isn't catholic or protestant. It doesn't have a mailing address or a zip code. It is the body of believers in Jesus Christ the world over. Christ has written their names in the book of life. Christ knows who His friends are.

[KiwiChristian]

If a person believes they are doing all they can to achieve everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven, then their goal is being achieved, but at the end of the day none of us truly know for certain.

THEIR goal? maybe. But God says our works are as filthy rags.

And yes, we CAN know for CERTAIN whether we are heading to heaven or hell.

II Timothy 1 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

I John 5 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


The keys words are that "ye may know that ye have eternal life"

1 John 5: 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life,and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

There Are THREE grounds for your assurance:

• The Person of GOD

–   Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; GOD CANNOT LIE – That settles that!

• The Promises of GOD

–   John 5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
–   John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
–   Romans 10: 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


• The Presence of GOD

–   Romans 5: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. God gives us His HOLY GHOST who dwells in our hearts.
–   Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

The Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit (thru the Word of God) that we are in fact God's children.

God's witness of Jesus Christ has always been given in scripture which leads is substantiated in:

I John 5: 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

[Alan]

The goal is a mindset, not a workload or a challenge.

[grams]

8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Alan]

8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That's in the Catholic bible also grams.


If Catholics have faith, shouldn't they too be saved by the grace of God?

[KiwiChristian]

8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Amen. And how, as a catholic do you obtain that grace?

[Alan]

Amen. And how, as a catholic do you obtain that grace?

The same way as every other Christian, God grants it.

[grams]

When  I was Catholic  we had to do things  to be saved.........

We could not have sin........  so if we died  and did not go to confession we  were going to  hell......

It  was a big sin  to miss mass........... and a lot of other things........

[winsome]

When  I was Catholic  we had to do things  to be saved.........

Everyone has to do something to be saved grams. Believing is doing something.

We could not have sin........  so if we died  and did not go to confession we  were going to  hell......

I don't know where you got that distorted teaching from. Perhaps you weren't paying attention in class.

It  was a big sin  to miss mass...........

It depends why you missed mass

[Open Heart]

I am no longer  a Catholic........   Have not been for   30 years.....

I do not want to cause trouble,  I  just want to find out  if  its the same?

Mass  in  Latin  ,  is it still that way ?    I never  could  figure out why  it was

No one  could speak it  so why  [ or understand it ]    not  speak it in English ?

Yes  we had prayer books to follow but  ,  it would have been nicer to  hear it  I think !

Mass has been in the vernacular (the common language) for half a century.

It was originally switched from Greek to Latin in the western Church because that was the lingua franca at the time, and then stayed that way so that all Catholic churches around the world would share a common liturgy.

[Open Heart]

Do  you know one other thing ?   Why  were we not able to eat meat on Friday ?

It is a form of fasting.  Fasting is very common in the Bible.  Even Jesus fasted.

[Open Heart]

I  just cant believe  we did not  use a bible back then !   The prayer book did have some

bible, but not much.......

Actually, if you go to daily Mass over the course of three years, you get practically the entire Bible read.

[Open Heart]

Its not in the Bible.

Catholicism is not sola scriptura.  For that matter, the Scriptures are not sola scriptura.

[Open Heart]

As for  being  saved !    Once you understand  what Jesus  did for us  and believe .........

Then you  are saved  ......  Understanding and believing.

Actually, you are oversimplifying.  You are quoting good scriptures, but they are only part of the story.  There are other verses that speak to other requirements:

Repent and be baptized every one of you for the forgiveness of sins  Acts 2:38

baptism, which now saves you 1 Peter 3:21

so you see that we are justified by works, and not by faith alone James 2:24

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" ..."If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

[grams]

Things  have changed........  It  even tell you in the bible.

the Lord is telling Paul to go to the gentiles......

That is us in this time  and age.......

there is a time past......... but now......... and ages to come.........

[KiwiChristian]

Catholicism is not sola scriptura.  For that matter, the Scriptures are not sola scriptura.

the Scriptures sola scriptura.

NOT solO scriptural.

they are the final authority.

[KiwiChristian]

Actually, if you go to daily Mass over the course of three years, you get practically the entire Bible read.

read? yes. studied? no

[KiwiChristian]

It is a form of fasting.  Fasting is very common in the Bible.  Even Jesus fasted.

but the Bible WARNS us against those who forbid meat

[KiwiChristian]

The same way as every other Christian, God grants it.

freely? or do i have to do things?

[winsome]

the Scriptures sola scriptura.

NOT solO scriptural.

they are the final authority.

Scripture has no authority.

Scripture is authoritative - meaning true and reliable.

Authority resides in persons.

[winsome]

freely? or do i have to do things?

Is there a conflict between the two?

[grams]

[  [[[[[[[[[[[       Alan  said;

We will ALL find out when we die, not until that time. ]]]]]]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You  will know  before you die !!!!   if not you are going to hell............

If  your   saved you know for sure ! 

Eph. 2;

8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[AVZ]

Everyone has to do something to be saved grams. Believing is doing something.

Yep, so is breathing, looking, hearing, sitting and sleeping.

[Ginger Rella]

Once more  question to  the Catholic  people !

How  did you find out  you  were  saved     Because  I never did !   And I went there

up  to my  50's............    I got saved  at a bible church ........

Grams.

I am not Catholic, and truthfully could never be.  The entire church is wrong, in my opinion. But I do have Catholic friends  and they automatically believe they are saved because of their beliefs, and because they work in the church as often as possible, and other works ( annual missionary help to places like El Salvadore/ Haite under their church sponspred countires.). None of the children is permitted to marry outside of the religion... and they just "know" they are saved.

Alan replied with:

"We will ALL find out when we die, not until that time."

To which I say it is going to be a little late at that point.

Then Alan further states...

"If a person believes they are doing all they can to achieve everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven, then their goal is being achieved, but at the end of the day none of us truly know for certain."

Which is what my friends believe. They truly believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that they are doing all they can to achieve everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Soletarion wrote:

"
1 John 5:13.
I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

God wants His people to know their status with Him."

And my friends will tell you they know their status.

BTW.... they also are looking forward to the soon return of Jesus. And they also believe we are in end times.

Alan"

"
Anyhow, yes I do believe that God wants us to be secure but at the same time I don't give merit to one denomination over another that have or have not secured their salvation.  ALL devout Christians believe they are on the correct path."

Exactly.

There is no church that is 100% right and there is no church that is 100% wrong. ( Except the Church of Satan and that of Scientology)

Every human being is 100% different then anyone else. We do not drive the same cars.... ( Bet if you did a survey of the  regular posters on here we all are driving something different) We live in different styles of houses. We live in different climates. We work at different jobs.

We are different.

Even Jesus, Himself, said John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Many mansions..... Which says to me... provided that was translated correctly.... that their will be a variety... not the same old, same old cookie cutter style
of company row houses.

So it stands to reason that people would also differ in the ways they want to worship. Personally, as long as Jesus is at the center of things I believe that God approves... just so long as it is Jesus... and nothing else.

NOT that I am giving support to the Catholic way of doing things.  There is far more wrong with them then is right.

But for those Catholics that I know who unwaveringly believe in their own destiny in the future..... and hand their future on the blood of Jesus.....?

Now I am not giving a pass, by an

[Ginger Rella]

When  I was Catholic  we had to do things  to be saved.........

We could not have sin........  so if we died  and did not go to confession we  were going to  hell......

It  was a big sin  to miss mass........... and a lot of other things........

Grams....

They were/are wrong.


There is no mortal man that has the authority of God to forgive a sin. But I do believe it is a self-serving help to confess your trangressions because that allows one to actually admit where they are wrong, ask for forgiveness... and go forth hopefully to repent of what brought them there in the first place.... but that man in the confession does not have that authority.

As to being a big sin to miss mass ....  Often times wonder if that one was not stated so you would have no opportunity to go to a different church?  Or maybe catching a differing view on one of the Sunday AM televangelist programs.......


True fact... I have a very close, very religious, Baptist friend.  She plays piano/organ for Sunday Services and all else going on  in the church..
Her minister says that ............YOU HAVE TO GO TO CHURCH TO BE SAVED.....

This is not Catholic.... this is Baptist.... HIS Batist preaching.

This man also will says that  (  Dear God, Please do not let this comment take this thread into a different direction. Thank you  )
and teaches that baptism is not necessary to be saved.

As you believe.

The Catholics are just so wrong in too much. Not to be belabored here.

But Grams.... You have told us often you came out of Catholicism. Why and how did that happen?

[winsome]

Grams....

They were/are wrong.

Grams just has a muddled understanding of Catholic teaching - as it appears do you.

There is no mortal man that has the authority of God to forgive a sin. But I do believe it is a self-serving help to confess your trangressions because that allows one to actually admit where they are wrong, ask for forgiveness... and go forth hopefully to repent of what brought them there in the first place.... but that man in the confession does not have that authority.

Yes he has.

As to being a big sin to miss mass ....  Often times wonder if that one was not stated so you would have no opportunity to go to a different church?  Or maybe catching a differing view on one of the Sunday AM televangelist programs.......

As I said to grams earlier - it depends why you miss Mass

The Catholics are just so wrong in too much. Not to be belabored here.

In your fallible opinion.

[Ginger Rella]

Grams just has a muddled understanding of Catholic teaching - as it appears do you.

Yes he has.

As I said to grams earlier - it depends why you miss Mass



In your fallible opinion.

Grams just has a muddled understanding of Catholic teaching - as it appears do you.

No, I do not. My understanding is clear. Far more so then your understanding of why the Protestants revolted in the first place and remain so today.

Yes he has.

By whose authority?

As I said to grams earlier - it depends why you miss Mass

Well, obviously if you are contagiously sick or terminally ill you will be excused.

In your fallible opinion.

Naw.... your church just is not 100% correct, nor is your belief system. 

[winsome]

Yes he has.

By whose authority?

God's authority

[grams]

Our  first born son  went to  church with a friend , which was  I believe
Baptist....   and  he liked it and went again and got a bible , and he got
our other son to read the bible..... and  the first son  left some track on
our table and I saw one, which I got angry  with ,  it asked what is the
priest doing in the back room........!
Any way the second son  stayed up all night  reading the bible, and  he
decided he wanted to try a different church,  so  the family started to
look for a bible church and that is were we are now..... Our first born is
now a preacher at Baptist churches and in a different State then us.
But  we are now all saved, our daughter also.

And all that I said about the Catholic  Church is true,  things were
different back then,  I have a friend that stayed there and she is saved.
That is why I know  its  changed a great deal  , at least the one she now
goes to........  I know a lot of stuff is the same , but  if she is saved that
is what is important.....!!!!!!!!!