Boundaries in dating/courtship

[heyhey92]

I am all for waiting until marriage to have sex. I, however, have been physical in the past (e.g. kissing, fondling, etc.). My boyfriend and I have agreed to wait until marriage to have sex. However, we have gotten physical, as in kissing on the neck, his hands wandering, etc. I've told him that I do not want to kiss him on the lips, yet whenever he is kissing my neck and stuff, his lips end up by mine and I have to tell him no. This has happened many times. He kept asking why I didn't want to kiss on the lips, and I said I just didn't want to. I at least want to save THAT for marriage, since we've done other things. He initiated all these things from the beginning. I never asked for it, but as time went on, I began to ask him to do those physical things, and I always felt guilty after doing them.

I guess it may be my fault. What do you do when you feel guilty after getting physical (e.g. your boyfriend kissing your neck, his hands wandering, and all that), and he thinks it's okay because "well, we're not having sex." He said he's tried to make me happy using other means, but it hasn't worked, and the only time he's seen me happy is when we've been physical. He said that there are health benefits to caressing. I've been with this guy for about 6 months. It's interesting because before we started dating, he asked me what I thought about kissing and caressing when dating, and I said I thought it was wrong. He replied by saying, "yeah, one kiss can lead to lust." With that statement, I thought he would be against us getting physical as well. I told my mom about that statement he made and she was relieved, so she obviously also thought he would be against it. He later told me that he likes kissing and caressing. I've expressed disapproval of all these things, and he said he would leave it up to me to set boundaries. I have a problem with that; I feel that the guy, as the head, should be the one to set boundaries. I've heard of lots of people whose boyfriends were the one to establish boundaries right at the beginning of their relationships. I'm somewhat unhappy in my relationship because this whole getting physical thing bothers me so much. Of course, when you're in the moment, you enjoy it so much, that's how sin is, but it always makes you feel guilty after.

I just wish he would've been more upfront with it. Even when we've decided not to do it, we'll be together and he'll ask me if I want him to do it (e.g. kiss my neck or not) and I end up saying yes. What should I do? He is a Christian and everything, but I think we don't agree on some things. He has tried to help me get over some of my insecurities, past hurts, etc. However, I still feel like there's someone else for me out there.

[Yahu]

I am all for waiting until marriage to have sex. I, however, have been physical in the past (e.g. kissing, fondling, etc.). My boyfriend and I have agreed to wait until marriage to have sex. However, we have gotten physical, as in kissing on the neck, his hands wandering, etc. I've told him that I do not want to kiss him on the lips, yet whenever he is kissing my neck and stuff, his lips end up by mine and I have to tell him no. This has happened many times. He kept asking why I didn't want to kiss on the lips, and I said I just didn't want to. I at least want to save THAT for marriage, since we've done other things. He initiated all these things from the beginning. I never asked for it, but as time went on, I began to ask him to do those physical things, and I always felt guilty after doing them.

I guess it may be my fault. What do you do when you feel guilty after getting physical (e.g. your boyfriend kissing your neck, his hands wandering, and all that), and he thinks it's okay because "well, we're not having sex." He said he's tried to make me happy using other means, but it hasn't worked, and the only time he's seen me happy is when we've been physical. He said that there are health benefits to caressing. I've been with this guy for about 6 months. It's interesting because before we started dating, he asked me what I thought about kissing and caressing when dating, and I said I thought it was wrong. He replied by saying, "yeah, one kiss can lead to lust." With that statement, I thought he would be against us getting physical as well. I told my mom about that statement he made and she was relieved, so she obviously also thought he would be against it. He later told me that he likes kissing and caressing. I've expressed disapproval of all these things, and he said he would leave it up to me to set boundaries. I have a problem with that; I feel that the guy, as the head, should be the one to set boundaries. I've heard of lots of people whose boyfriends were the one to establish boundaries right at the beginning of their relationships. I'm somewhat unhappy in my relationship because this whole getting physical thing bothers me so much. Of course, when you're in the moment, you enjoy it so much, that's how sin is, but it always makes you feel guilty after.

I just wish he would've been more upfront with it. Even when we've decided not to do it, we'll be together and he'll ask me if I want him to do it (e.g. kiss my neck or not) and I end up saying yes. What should I do? He is a Christian and everything, but I think we don't agree on some things. He has tried to help me get over some of my insecurities, past hurts, etc. However, I still feel like there's someone else for me out there.

I set the limit of actual sexual intercourse during the courtship with my wife.  Granted we were both much older and had both had sexual experiences prior to our relationship.  As a matter of fact, she had been gang raped 2 years before so I wanted to show her I was after her as a wife, not just as a lover.  I wanted our relationship based on friendship, not on passion.

I applaud you for your desire to stay a virgin until you marry.  It will mean so much to your husband later in life.  I know my wife was glad to have waited until our honeymoon but getting to that time without getting involved was difficult.  Waiting made our honeymoon special.  We were both in the military away from home in our 20s.  We were already sleeping together, in sweat pants and t-shirts for months prior to our wedding but still refrained from sex. 

It is really based on your own limits as to what you allow or forbid for things like kissing.  How much self-control do you and your boyfriend have?  If you have less self-control, set harder limits IMO.

I would also suggest you learn the difference between love, passion, desire and lust.

The other question I would have is, are you actually ready to get married?  If not, why are you even in a courtship?

[RB]

We were already sleeping together, in sweat pants and t-shirts for months prior to our wedding but still refrained from sex. 

And we are supposed to believe that...well, I'm for one would never believe that. If I'm sleeping with a woman, then I would not go asleep without paying her a visit, and I'm almost seventy and still would not! You must be wired differently than most men.

[Texas Conservative]

And we are supposed to believe that...well, I'm for one would never believe that. If I'm sleeping with a woman, then I would not go asleep without paying her a visit, and I'm almost seventy and still would not! You must be wired differently than most men.

Hard to believe that one could sleep in bed with a woman they have the hots for without trying something.   Unless they have an extremely low sex drive.

[Yahu]

Hard to believe that one could sleep in bed with a woman they have the hots for without trying something.   Unless they have an extremely low sex drive.

What you believer or not is irrelevant but my moral stand is to refrain from lying. 

LOL, As to having an extremely low sex drive, I TOTALLY disagree.  I just had an abundance of self-control due to a hyperactive sex drive and made a commitment to refrain from sex at the beginning of our courtship that I honored.  A lot of it came from the actual realities of our relationship.  She was the most beautiful girl I have ever known and she had had many problem with men just lusting after her because of her beauty.  I wanted to prove how different I was.

Just to give you an idea how bad her problems were with men, there was a sign-up list at the base gym (we were both in the AF) for the next body-building jock type moron to date her next.  After two weeks they had to break up to let the next guy have his chance with her.  I was threatened because I wasn't on the list.  I helped get them investigated and prosecuted for sexual harassment.  People ended up in prison for the things they did to try to sabotage our relationship in retaliation.  That was some severe motivation to refrain from treating her as a sex object during our courtship.  The entire situation was a major sexual scandal on March AFB in the 88-89 time-frame.  The 1st anti-stalking laws passed in California was due to Cynthia's work with the parole boards and a state legislator hearing her story.

As to whether you believe that or not, is entirely up to you.  I have actually written the story of what we went thru as a book which I entitled 'The Curse of Great Beauty'.

[RB]

LOL, As to having an extremely low sex drive, I TOTALLY disagree.

Then you lied.

I just had an abundance of self-control due to a hyperactive sex drive and made a commitment to refrain from sex at the beginning of our courtship that I honored.

You may convince some with your proud statement, but not one person who understands lust and God's commandments to FLEE from lust that wars against our souls and no greater lust for a man than a beautiful well-favoured woman, there's NONE.

You said you went to bed many times with her and now you are telling us how you had an "abundance of self-control"~ I wish I could honestly say that NOW of me at my age, but I would be lying and deceived by making such a statement. You went to bed because you had abundance of self-control and made a commitment to refrain from sex~well this is good, yet not going to bed with her to test your commitment. The manner in which we keep such commitments is by FLEEING from them and not engaging even the opportunity to fulfill the lust of our flesh. This is not my opinion but wisdom from the scriptures.

1st Peter 2:11~"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;"

It is very hard to abstain from lust when it is touching you, when a male's hormones are at the greatest levels...sleep=increasing of sexual hormones which goes without saying.  Experts estimate that as much as 75 percent of human growth hormone is released during sleep.

Proverb 6:29~"Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?"

Here is a proverb from the wisest man outside of Jesus Christ, that ever lived~ it's short, powerful, wise, memorable. The question is simple; the answer is simple. No! It is impossible to walk on hot coals and not burn your feet!

Profane skeptics and proud men believe that they have the power to walk on coals without burning their feet....that's impossible.

Solomon's warning lesson flies in the face of modern wisdom and the entertainment world and parents who allow their daughters to reveal much of their private parts before the eyes of men, especially young men.

Samson thought he could walk on sexual coals, but Delilah stole his strength and left him blinded and chained to grind for the Philistines. David did not think he would be burned either, but his short tryst with Bathsheba cost him dearly for the rest of his life. Profane Amnon craved his sister, but the event horribly disappointed him and cost him his life.

Joseph is our hero, for when he saw and felt the fire, he ran as far and as fast as he could. He knew that even though she greatly desired him, there would be hell to pay with God and men. He chose the certainty of a false accusation rather than the lying promise of stolen pleasure. He knew he would be burned if he stayed, so he ran from the fire.

The rule is simple: if you play with fire, you will get burned. We walk on coal (and allow others to do so also) expecting them not to burn our feet when we allow our children and grandchildren (including ourselves) behind closed door and lying in bed with a person of the opposite sex, especially so a beautiful one and not married to them.   

How do parents keep children from getting burned? They make them stay far away from fire. And the Heavenly Father does the same. He says, "Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away" (Proverb 4:5). Solomon warned against lust in your heart and the sight of your eyes (Proverb 6:5). Fear of this great danger will not allow television, music, movies, books, magazines, texting, tweeting, or any other sexual temptation that could start a fire.

Matches themselves cause little damage; it is the fire they kindle that can burn everything in its path, so parents keep matches from children. Paul, who knew the burning danger of concupiscence, or sexual lusts (Romans 7:8), told you to avoid even the possibility of a fire (Romans 13:14). You do this by staying away from even those things that might start a fire. What a hypocrite to pray "Lead us not into temptation"~ and then jump into bed with it!

You might convince others that you have an abundance of self-control, but it does not add up. Self-control causes one to flee not to jump into the bed of coals to test your ability to overcome...that's not the way it works. 

btw, I forgot to ask you this question: "how does this (had an abundance of self-control) translate into this (because of hyperactive sex drive) ?"

I just had an abundance of self-control due to a hyperactive sex drive

It does not work that way. It works like this....Because of a hyperactive sex drive I must NOT make provison for the flesh, to fulfill the lust thereof!

[chosenone]

I set the limit of actual sexual intercourse during the courtship with my wife.  Granted we were both much older and had both had sexual experiences prior to our relationship.  As a matter of fact, she had been gang raped 2 years before so I wanted to show her I was after her as a wife, not just as a lover.  I wanted our relationship based on friendship, not on passion.

I applaud you for your desire to stay a virgin until you marry.  It will mean so much to your husband later in life.  I know my wife was glad to have waited until our honeymoon but getting to that time without getting involved was difficult.  Waiting made our honeymoon special.  We were both in the military away from home in our 20s.  We were already sleeping together, in sweat pants and t-shirts for months prior to our wedding but still refrained from sex. 

It is really based on your own limits as to what you allow or forbid for things like kissing.  How much self-control do you and your boyfriend have?  If you have less self-control, set harder limits IMO.

I would also suggest you learn the difference between love, passion, desire and lust.

The other question I would have is, are you actually ready to get married?  If not, why are you even in a courtship?

I admire you for this, My husband is similar, he is a normal red blooded man but wouldnt have sex even if he was in the same bed as a lady he wasn't married to, although sharing a bed when you aren't married is very unwise.   We had to share a house for 2 months between our engagement and marriage as he had to leave his rented place, but it was strictly separate rooms.

[Texas Conservative]

A normal red blooded male wouldn't sleep next to an attractive woman, period.

I'll go with scripture and RB for the win!

[mommydi]

A normal red blooded male wouldn't sleep next to an attractive woman, period.

I'll go with scripture and RB for the win!

I'm not a male, but I'll also go with scripture, RB, and TC for the win! 

I'd also suggest that any man who claims to have a "hyperactive sex drive" and also claims he can sleep next to the most beautiful, alluring woman he knows - for months - without making a move on her, doesn't know the definition of "hyperactive sex-drive."

[chosenone]

I'm not a male, but I'll also go with scripture, RB, and TC for the win! 

I'd also suggest that any man who claims to have a "hyperactive sex drive" and also claims he can sleep next to the most beautiful, alluring woman he knows - for months - without making a move on her, doesn't know the definition of "hyperactive sex-drive."

I know Christian men who shared a room with their future wife many times and didnt have sex. Its called self-control and discipline. Many Christian men still have it thankfully.

[mommydi]

  I know Christian men who shared a room with their future wife many times and didnt have sex. Its called self-control and discipline. Many Christian men still have it thankfully.

How many Christian men share rooms with their future wives before marriage? That seems like an odd arrangement for Christians. Are you saying Christian couples live together before marriage but don't have sexual contact? Another question would be, why would a Christian couple want to present themselves to the world as living together before marriage? (even if not having sex) What kind of example is that to the world?

[Texas Conservative]

  I know Christian men who shared a room with their future wife many times and didnt have sex. Its called self-control and discipline. Many Christian men still have it thankfully.

It isn't called "self-control."

It's called foolishness for not adhering to God's Word and fleeing temptation.

[RB]

It isn't called "self-control." It's called foolishness for not adhering to God's Word and fleeing temptation.

Brother you are absolutely correct. Take most warnings in the scriptures about not making provisions for the flesh, etc.,  and insert self-control when around sin that our souls naturally lust after and see how foolish and devilish those warnings become. FLEE is a common word used by God concerning concupiscence in the scriptures.

2nd Timothy 2;22~"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

Those who have pure heart as far as desiring the will of God for their life flee temptation, they do not flirt with temptations or make any provisions for to be tempted, and they certainly do not jump into the fire and not expecting to be burnt. This is so even at my age.

"Flee also youthful lusts"~Paul exhorts Timothy to keep at a distance from so dangerous a plague, and for this purpose he advises him to avoid "youthful desires" that naturally works in our members. I would venture to say that this exhortation includes all sins both uncleanness and those courses or sinful passions in which young men are prone to indulge in~thereby, any impetuous passions the excessive warmth of age is prone toward. We all know that younger men more quickly grow hot/burn (it does not take very much when younger as it does when older) through want of experience and discipline and are prone to rush forward with greater confidence than men of riper age~YET when it comes to evil concupiscence, Paul's exhortation can serve all of us to keep us from sinning against God. 

[chosenone]

It isn't called "self-control."

It's called foolishness for not adhering to God's Word and fleeing temptation.

As I sad sharing a bed isn't wise, but if for whatever reason you need to share a room before marriage then you can use self-control and discipline. We all have it. My husband has it in bucket loads and he is a normal red blooded man. 

[RB]

My husband has it in bucket loads and he is a normal red blooded man.

You know, Chosenone, so do I, when it comes to "some" women and I'm sure TC can say the same~but that cannot be said with a broad brush concerning all females, even your husband IF he was honest with you would say the same, unless he's deceived about his own heart. Some men, well, they lost their desires years ago because of what they got at home and this is true of women also, I'm sure.

My husband has it in bucket loads

I would not be boasting about that, that may be saying that you have not spoiled him like my wife has me. 

[Texas Conservative]

As I sad sharing a bed isn't wise, but if for whatever reason you need to share a room before marriage then you can use self-control and discipline. We all have it. My husband has it in bucket loads and he is a normal red blooded man.

My self control is not putting myself in a position to fall.