Stunning Documentaries That Refute Protestantism

[Isaias]

I wanted to make clear, as a traditional Catholic, I do not intend to be contemptuous with any protestant but only want to show them the truth, so that they can be saved.  Please watch these documentaries, you will see the truth in them.  There are forensic.

<links removed as per forum rules-please read them>

I am having trouble being able to contact the moderator regarding the removal of the playlist of documentaries.  Can anyone give me an email address or a way to contact the moderator who took down the links?

[winsome]

I wanted to make clear, as a traditional Catholic, I do not intend to be contemptuous with any protestant....

But you are a Protestant!

[Isaias]

But you are a Protestant!

You didn't back up your statement with anything to prove what you are saying.  I am a Traditional Catholic.

[winsome]

You didn't back up your statement with anything to prove what you are saying.  I am a Traditional Catholic.

[Isaias]

http://www.allmonks.com/most-holy-family-monastery-exposed/

http://www.tldm.org/news15/schismaticmonasteryaccusedoftakingmans1.6million.htm

So, you willfully choose to listen to a third party, rather than look into everything yourself!?

You still have not cited anything that is wrong that I provided.  It is necessary and fair if you are going to attack what is provided, that you bring forth specific information to refute what the Brothers have provided.  By the way, did you look at the video, "The bible proves the Teachings of the Catholic church"?  From start to finish?

[Isaias]

It amazes me how most people would rather be rash and just parrot what they hear and not look into things in a forensic way. 

[Isaias]

By the way Winsome, do you agree on what the bible says about the proof for the papacy in this thread that I provided??

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/apostolic-succession-98443/

[winsome]

So, you willfully choose to listen to a third party, rather than look into everything yourself!?

You still have not cited anything that is wrong that I provided.  It is necessary and fair if you are going to attack what is provided, that you bring forth specific information to refute what the Brothers have provided.  By the way, did you look at the video, "The bible proves the Teachings of the Catholic church"?  From start to finish?

If you follow some of the teachings of the MHFM then you are not following the teaching of the Catholic Church. You are protesting against the Catholic Church and the Pope.

Most Holy Family Monastery is a sedevacantist organization run by Michael Dimond. Due to its publication of a pamphlet entitled "101 Heresies of Anti-Pope John Paul II" it was declared "a dissident organization that challenges the papal authority" by The Catholic League in January, 1999.^[1] The group has also been condemned by the Catholic diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska,^[2] and was designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center in 2014.<sup>[3]

(Wikipedia)</sup>

[Texas Conservative]

It amazes me how most people would rather be rash and just parrot what they hear and not look into things in a forensic way.

Welcome to the League Of GCM Protestants.  You are our least Protestant member, but you still belong.

[winsome]

By the way Winsome, do you agree on what the bible says about the proof for the papacy in this thread that I provided??

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/apostolic-succession-98443/

Starting from the OT is an interesting way to go about it. But what I don't understand is how, according to your MHFM heretics the papacy no longer exists. According to them God has failed.

[winsome]

Welcome to the League Of GCM Protestants.  You are our least Protestant member, but you still belong.

[Isaias]

You have clearly demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about the Catholic Faith.  This is why I structured my post concerning succession, the way that I did, only revealing a little bit concerning infallibility in 3 Kings ch. 9 because of rashness on the part of people.  Most people don't want to learn, they want to be led, unfortunately.  If you are a good willed man, then you will see the truth that succession was conditional, predicated upon obedience.  And it will prove to the protestants that the Catholic church is the true church. 

I will post all of the verses pertaining to the conditionality of succession of a man on God's throne, the throne of David, which is the throne of the Catholic church!  It is cited in two books.  And I will give commentary from Haydock's bible about it.

3 Kings 9:3-9 [3] And the Lord said to him: I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, which thou hast made before me: I have sanctified this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. [4] And if thou wilt walk before me, as thy father walked, in simplicity of heart, and in uprightness: and wilt do all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my ordinances and my judgments, [5] I will establish the throne of thy kingdom over Israel for ever, as I promised David thy father, saying: There shall not fail a man of thy race upon the throne of Israel. [6] But if you and your children revolting shall turn away from following me, and will not keep my commandments, and my ceremonies, which I have set before you, but will go and worship strange gods, and adore them: [7] I will take away Israel from the face of the land which I have given them; and the temple which I have sanctified to my name, I will cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb, and a byword among all people. [8] And this house shall be made an example of: every one that shall pass by it, shall be astonished, and shall hiss, and say: Why hath the Lord done thus to this land, and to this house: [9] And they shall answer: Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and followed strange gods, and adored them, and worshipped them: therefore hath the Lord brought upon them all this evil.

A Catholic priest and biblical scholar Rev. George Leo Haydock (1774-1849) confirms the conditionality of Divine Providence and the punishment for revolting.

Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition.
3 Kings 9 verse 7. Take away, by death or exile. (Haydock) --- Sight. God is disposed to grant favours to those who approach his temples with piety. If they indulge their passions, he will suffer these holy places to be profaned, as a dreadful warning of his displeasure. The Jews enjoyed prosperity while they continued faithful. On their revolt, the ark was taken, the temple pillaged by Sesac, burnt by Nabuchodonosor, profaned by Antiochus, and destroyed by the Romans. (Calmet)

And here again, the conditionality of the perpetuity of a man, on God's Throne with infallibility, is cited in the second book of Paralipomenon.

2 Paralipomenon 7:16-22 [16] For I have chosen, and have sanctified this place, that my name may be there for ever, and my eyes and my heart may remain there perpetually. [17] And as for thee, if thou walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and keep my justices and my judgments: [18] I will raise up the throne of thy kingdom, as I promised to David thy father, saying: There shall not fail thee a man of thy stock to be ruler in Israel. [19] But if you turn away, and forsake my justices, and my commandments which I have set before you, and shall go and serve strange gods, and adore them, [20] I will pluck you up by the root out of my land which I have given you: and this house which I have sanctified to my name, I will cast away from before my face, and will make it a byword, and an example among all nations. [21] And this house shall be for a proverb to all that pass by, and they shall be astonished and say: Why hath the Lord done thus to this land, and to this house? [22] And they shall answer: Because they forsook the Lord the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on strange gods, and adored them, and worshipped them: therefore all these evils are come upon them.

Because of the perpetual evil of revolting men, what happened in the old, will happened again in the new.  It was prophesied by Daniel and St. Paul among others.

Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.

In the book of Hosea [Osee] God even says that He will take away the priesthood because of idolatry and apostasy, and how their houses [churches] have become counterfeit, as a dove that is decoyed.

Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 4:6,  My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee, that thou shalt not do the office of priesthood to me: and thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 7:11 And Ephraim is become as a dove that is decoyed, not having a heart:

Nothing new under the Sun!

The books of the Machabees are so incredibly similar, as to what has happened since 1958!

Please read this thread, I posted it at another "Catholic" forum.  You have nothing to lose by reading it and everything to gain.

[Isaias]

Please notice the glaring words of; "my name MAY be there for ever and my eyes and heart MAY remain there perpetually"!!!

2 Paralipomenon 7:16 For I have chosen, and have sanctified this place, that my name may be there for ever, and my eyes and my heart may remain there perpetually.

I know this is shocking because most people don't know because they never looked into it.  They just follow.  But never the less, its there and history has proven this to be true i.e. Jeremias, Hosea, the Machabees and now.

[Isaias]

Didn't God give conditions to Adam and Eve?  He provided everything for them, only if they obey.  But they didn't and they were cast out! 

Genesis 3:24  And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Nothing new under the Sun!

[Isaias]

While I don't know what !Watched means but I feel like I am standing before the Pharisees and being attacked for providing what scripture [truth] and history says.

[Isaias]

If you follow some of the teachings of the MHFM then you are not following the teaching of the Catholic Church. You are protesting against the Catholic Church and the Pope.

Most Holy Family Monastery is a sedevacantist organization run by Michael Dimond. Due to its publication of a pamphlet entitled "101 Heresies of Anti-Pope John Paul II" it was declared "a dissident organization that challenges the papal authority" by The Catholic League in January, 1999.^[1] The group has also been condemned by the Catholic diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska,^[2] and was designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center in 2014.<sup>[3]

(Wikipedia)</sup>

Its amazing, you haven't read nor do you want to, you just do a quick search on the internet and think its infallible.  Why will you not look at what I provided and read carefully.  Do you know why, because you cannot refute anything!!  What do you have to say about 3 kings ch. 9, popes on God's throne, were conditional, predicated upon obedience!  Wow!

By the way, you just gave support to a jewish hate group, who hates the Catholic church!!  Your forensic research is disgusting!!


The SPLC attacks Christmas


The "Anti-Hate" Group that is a Hate Group


The Southern Poverty Law Center scan

[Isaias]

Antipope John Paul II said that Christmas is the feast of man, instead of Jesus Christ!!  Is this not a problem!  This is the Nestorian heresy.  Dissolving Jesus Christ into every man.  That is antichrist.

Antipope John Paul II, Urbi et Orbi, Dec. 25, 1978: "I am addressing this message to every human being, to man in his humanity.  Christmas is the feast of man."

Read more:

[Isaias]

Winsome, what happened to your post from Wikipedia that you posted about the outrageous lies coming from Southern Poverty Law Center about MHFM?  I commented to that post, you can still see it.

[Reformer]

Isaias:

   I haven't been following this thread, but one of your many assertions caught my eye. You affirmed, "And it will prove to the protestants that the Catholic church is the true church."

   I have much to say about this allegation on my Website, but I don't want to splash it all over here. I will only give you the Link and let you review it when convenient. Here is the Link:

   www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Catholicism.html .

Buff

[winsome]

You have clearly demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about the Catholic Faith.  This is why I structured my post concerning succession, the way that I did, only revealing a little bit concerning infallibility in 3 Kings ch. 9 because of rashness on the part of people.  Most people don't want to learn, they want to be led, unfortunately.  If you are a good willed man, then you will see the truth that succession was conditional, predicated upon obedience.  And it will prove to the protestants that the Catholic church is the true church. 

I will post all of the verses pertaining to the conditionality of succession of a man on God's throne, the throne of David, which is the throne of the Catholic church!  It is cited in two books.  And I will give commentary from Haydock's bible about it.

3 Kings 9:3-9 [3] And the Lord said to him: I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, which thou hast made before me: I have sanctified this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. [4] And if thou wilt walk before me, as thy father walked, in simplicity of heart, and in uprightness: and wilt do all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my ordinances and my judgments, [5] I will establish the throne of thy kingdom over Israel for ever, as I promised David thy father, saying: There shall not fail a man of thy race upon the throne of Israel. [6] But if you and your children revolting shall turn away from following me, and will not keep my commandments, and my ceremonies, which I have set before you, but will go and worship strange gods, and adore them: [7] I will take away Israel from the face of the land which I have given them; and the temple which I have sanctified to my name, I will cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb, and a byword among all people. [8] And this house shall be made an example of: every one that shall pass by it, shall be astonished, and shall hiss, and say: Why hath the Lord done thus to this land, and to this house: [9] And they shall answer: Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and followed strange gods, and adored them, and worshipped them: therefore hath the Lord brought upon them all this evil.

A Catholic priest and biblical scholar Rev. George Leo Haydock (1774-1849) confirms the conditionality of Divine Providence and the punishment for revolting.

Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition.
3 Kings 9 verse 7. Take away, by death or exile. (Haydock) --- Sight. God is disposed to grant favours to those who approach his temples with piety. If they indulge their passions, he will suffer these holy places to be profaned, as a dreadful warning of his displeasure. The Jews enjoyed prosperity while they continued faithful. On their revolt, the ark was taken, the temple pillaged by Sesac, burnt by Nabuchodonosor, profaned by Antiochus, and destroyed by the Romans. (Calmet)

And here again, the conditionality of the perpetuity of a man, on God's Throne with infallibility, is cited in the second book of Paralipomenon.

2 Paralipomenon 7:16-22 [16] For I have chosen, and have sanctified this place, that my name may be there for ever, and my eyes and my heart may remain there perpetually. [17] And as for thee, if thou walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and keep my justices and my judgments: [18] I will raise up the throne of thy kingdom, as I promised to David thy father, saying: There shall not fail thee a man of thy stock to be ruler in Israel. [19] But if you turn away, and forsake my justices, and my commandments which I have set before you, and shall go and serve strange gods, and adore them, [20] I will pluck you up by the root out of my land which I have given you: and this house which I have sanctified to my name, I will cast away from before my face, and will make it a byword, and an example among all nations. [21] And this house shall be for a proverb to all that pass by, and they shall be astonished and say: Why hath the Lord done thus to this land, and to this house? [22] And they shall answer: Because they forsook the Lord the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on strange gods, and adored them, and worshipped them: therefore all these evils are come upon them.

Because of the perpetual evil of revolting men, what happened in the old, will happened again in the new.  It was prophesied by Daniel and St. Paul among others.

Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.

In the book of Hosea [Osee] God even says that He will take away the priesthood because of idolatry and apostasy, and how their houses [churches] have become counterfeit, as a dove that is decoyed.

Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 4:6,  My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee, that thou shalt not do the office of priesthood to me: and thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 7:11 And Ephraim is become as a dove that is decoyed, not having a heart:

Nothing new under the Sun!

The books of the Machabees are so incredibly similar, as to what has happened since 1958!

Please read this thread, I posted it at another "Catholic" forum.  You have nothing to lose by reading it and everything to gain.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

You act like a typical Protestant, taking a text from one place and applying it somewhere else with no justification. 1Kg 9:3-9 was fulfilled by the removal of King Zedekiah and the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians. There is no case for applying it to anything else.

Secondly you say:
"I will post all of the verses pertaining to the conditionality of succession of a man on God's throne, the throne of David, which is the throne of the Catholic church!"

The throne of David is NOT the throne of the Catholic Church. There may have been a conditionality in pre-Babylon times but now the throne of David is occupied by Jesus and will be in perpetuity. The angel said to Mary (Lk 1:31-33)
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."

Jesus is the Davidic King, not the Pope.

As vicar of Christ the Pope may act and speak with the authority of Jesus but he is not Jesus. He is not the king. He does not sit on the throne of David.

Today (22 February) we celebrate the feast of the Chair of Peter not the throne of Peter.

[Reformer]

Isaias:

   As to your assertion that "...the Catholic church is the true church," consider the following.

    One of the most crushing blows against Catholicism's claim that it is the "true church" and that Peter was the first pope is that Peter never once made such a claim. He wrote two of the biblical letters, I Peter and II Peter, but in neither does he identify himself as pope, pontiff, bishop, "Holy Father," or "Bishop of Rome." Instead, he introduces himself as an apostle and servant, the same titles and level of function as the other apostles.

    Additionally, in Acts 2, on the birthday of the Christian community, where Peter is recorded to have spoken extensively about the risen Lord, not once does he refer to himself as pope or "Head of the Church." I find this rather baffling, for all popes, since the office was formed in about the third or fourth century, have identified themselves as pope or pontiff in all of their documents.

    At this juncture, we must inquire: Why did Peter fail to interject himself as pope? The answer is obvious. He was neither pope nor "Head of the Church."

    But here is another matter all Catholics should seriously consider. The wise men who were led by God's star to see the child Jesus "bowed down and worshipped Him" (Matthew 2:10-12). If God intended that Mary be venerated, why didn't the wise men bow down and worship them instead of only Him? Why was Mary not bowed down to?

   Even the Catholic Bible has the wise men bowing down to Jesus only. Either the biblical testimony is wrong and the Catholic Hierarchy is right or the Catholic Hierarchy is wrong and the biblical evidence is right. It cannot be both ways.

   Too, nowhere in scripture are we able to find one example of Mary, or even an image of Mary, being bowed down to and/or venerated. This cultic practice was invented centuries later by the Roman Catholic Hierarchy, not by God. It is of the earth, not of heaven.

Buff

[Isaias]

   "Even the Catholic Bible has the wise men bowing down to Jesus only. Either the biblical testimony is wrong and the Catholic Hierarchy is right or the Catholic Hierarchy is wrong and the biblical evidence is right. It cannot be both ways."

Neither is wrong, you are.  You have a mutilated view of scripture as your father, Martin Luther and all his children do.

[winsome]

Isais,

Waiting for a response to  my reply#19

[chosenone]

I wanted to make clear, as a traditional Catholic, I do not intend to be contemptuous with any protestant but only want to show them the truth, so that they can be saved.  Please watch these documentaries, you will see the truth in them.  There are forensic.

<links removed as per forum rules-please read them>

I am having trouble being able to contact the moderator regarding the removal of the playlist of documentaries.  Can anyone give me an email address or a way to contact the moderator who took down the links?

Please don't bother, we are already saved.

[chosenone]

It amazes me how most people would rather be rash and just parrot what they hear and not look into things in a forensic way.

We prefer to use Gods word as our guide.

[Isaias]

Winsome quote which is reply # 19.
"Sorry, but you are wrong.  You act like a typical Protestant, taking a text from one place and applying it somewhere else with no justification. 1Kg 9:3-9 was fulfilled by the removal of King Zedekiah and the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians. There is no case for applying it to anything else.

Secondly you say: "I will post all of the verses pertaining to the conditionality of succession of a man on God's throne, the throne of David, which is the throne of the Catholic church!"

The throne of David is NOT the throne of the Catholic Church. There may have been a conditionality in pre-Babylon times but now the throne of David is occupied by Jesus and will be in perpetuity. The angel said to Mary (Lk 1:31-33)
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."

Jesus is the Davidic King, not the Pope. As vicar of Christ the Pope may act and speak with the authority of Jesus but he is not Jesus. He is not the king. He does not sit on the throne of David.

Today (22 February) we celebrate the feast of the Chair of Peter not the throne of Peter.

My response.

Winsome, you not only completely embarrass yourself, but you are proving the truth that God does punish His people when they revolt.  He does cast out His people and the church.  You don't know your history.  God did it again in the book of the Machabees.  And He did it again in 70 A.D.  By the way, regarding 70 A.D., that destruction had dual significance, one, the old law ended, two, God punished the jews because of their continued apostasy.

And He has done it now for the last time, in these end times, not by physical destruction but by deception, by craft, as Daniel said.  You know nothing about scripture.

You said the first destruction of Solomon's Temple was the only fulfillment of God's conditionality concerning a man on His Throne, chair.  You also don't know what a throne is, your embarrassing.

Throne.  a ceremonial chair for a sovereign, bishop, or similar figure.

You, who call yourself a Catholic, you actually hold the protestant position.

Question for you.  "Do you believe that the protestant position is a heretical position?

[Alan]

Swordmaster has converted? 

[winsome]

Winsome quote which is reply # 19.
"Sorry, but you are wrong.  You act like a typical Protestant, taking a text from one place and applying it somewhere else with no justification. 1Kg 9:3-9 was fulfilled by the removal of King Zedekiah and the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians. There is no case for applying it to anything else.

Secondly you say: "I will post all of the verses pertaining to the conditionality of succession of a man on God's throne, the throne of David, which is the throne of the Catholic church!"

The throne of David is NOT the throne of the Catholic Church. There may have been a conditionality in pre-Babylon times but now the throne of David is occupied by Jesus and will be in perpetuity. The angel said to Mary (Lk 1:31-33)
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."

Jesus is the Davidic King, not the Pope. As vicar of Christ the Pope may act and speak with the authority of Jesus but he is not Jesus. He is not the king. He does not sit on the throne of David.

Today (22 February) we celebrate the feast of the Chair of Peter not the throne of Peter.

My response.

Winsome, you not only completely embarrass yourself, but you are proving the truth that God does punish His people when they revolt.  He does cast out His people and the church.  You don't know your history.  God did it again in the book of the Machabees.  And He did it again in 70 A.D.  By the way, regarding 70 A.D., that destruction had dual significance, one, the old law ended, two, God punished the jews because of their continued apostasy.

And He has done it now for the last time, in these end times, not by physical destruction but by deception, by craft, as Daniel said.  You know nothing about scripture.

You said the first destruction of Solomon's Temple was the only fulfillment of God's conditionality concerning a man on His Throne, chair.  You also don't know what a throne is, your embarrassing.

Throne.  a ceremonial chair for a sovereign, bishop, or similar figure.

You, who call yourself a Catholic, you actually hold the protestant position.

Question for you.  "Do you believe that the protestant position is a heretical position?

Ducking and diving again Isaias.

You have answered my points at all. You have just ignored them and restated your poor exegeisis regarding 1Kg 9:3-9.

Please try again and answer the points I made.

[Isaias]

Those of good will, will see the difference between you and me.  I have admonished you more than two times, with Catholic church teachings, so now I avoid you. 

[Texas Conservative]

Those of good will, will see the difference between you and me.  I have admonished you more than two times, with Catholic church teachings, so now I avoid you.

Those of good will already have learned that someone that comes here and posts a significant number of new posts in a few days and is combative will probably not last long.

[Isaias]

Those of good will already have learned that someone that comes here and posts a significant number of new posts in a few days and is combative will probably not last long.

Is there a rule against posting a lot?  Combative?  I think that you misunderstand combative with disagreements, the idea is to come to conclusions, rather than endless dialogue.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.

[Reformer]

Isaias:

    Here is my statement, which was posted earlier, and your reply.

   BUFF— "Even the Catholic Bible has the wise men bowing down to Jesus only. Either the biblical testimony is wrong and the Catholic Hierarchy is right or the Catholic Hierarchy is wrong and the biblical evidence is right. It cannot be both ways."

   ISAIAS— "Neither is wrong, you are. You have a mutilated view of scripture as your father, Martin Luther and all his children, do."

   Here is a direct quote from The Catholic Bible on Matthew 2:11.

   "Entering the house where the baby and Mary his mother were, they threw themselves down before him, worshiping. Then they opened their presents and gave him gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (1976 Edition).

   As its Imprimatur ["Let it be Printed"], Leo A. Pursley, Bishop of Ft. Wayne-South Bend, IN.

   Apparently, you are not very versed in your own Bible, otherwise you would know assuredly that the wise men did not bow before Jesus' mother, but instead bowed before Him—Jesus.

   Yet, in spite of that fact, you and your fellow Catholics teach that homage should be given to Jesus and Mary, and all of you bow before an image of her.

Buff

[Alan]

Is there a rule against posting a lot?  Combative?  I think that you misunderstand combative with disagreements, the idea is to come to conclusions, rather than endless dialogue.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.

You certainly didn't come here in an effort to change peoples minds did you? Do they not encourage and teach fellowship in the catholic church you attend? Try a little of that before raining condemnation on us poor folk.