Gods Sabbath Day

[Cliftyman]

Why are you arguing over words?

Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

Ephesians 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

Colossians 1:2
To the holy and faithful  brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.

Colossians 1
22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1 Thessalonians 3:13
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

Romans 6
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Why would anyone rebuke someone for giving a call to holiness and obedience?  Do you rebuke Paul for his words?

Luke 11
27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, \"Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.\"    28He replied, \"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.\"

John 14
23Jesus replied, \"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Do you rebuke Christ for giving a call to obedience?

Csloan.. I know you and I are on the same side... but it seems you have a stigma attached to the word obey and the word holy.  I understand.  When you see Judaizers all around who constantly try and make you a Jew you tend to get that stigma.  However I am not a Judaizer.  I am simply trying to preach obedience and holiness as Jesus did.  We first put our faith in Jesus as being who he said he was and because of that we put our faith in God... then we obey out of love... not because a command.  

There is a problem with the \"grace centered movement\"... it creates a negative reaction to talking about obedience and holiness.  Whats silly is I know you keep some of the 10 commandments... what true Christian on Earth couldn't?  However you don't keep them out of a sense of duty... you keep them out of love and worship to your creator and savior.[/color]

[CSloan]

Cliff,

I didn't think my posting that was being argumentative. And my intention wasn't to rebuke you. Neither would I rebuke Christ or an Apostle. I was just sharing my perceptive on law keeping such as the sabbath.

I am simply trying to preach obedience and holiness as Jesus did.

It doesn't seem to me your preaching obedience or holiness if you are preaching the law. The law is to bring us to Christ {Gal 3:24}, not to make us obedient or holy {Gal 2:21}.

Whats silly is I know you keep some of the 10 commandments... what true Christian on Earth couldn't?

I must not be a true Christian then. I don't keep the commandments, I break them daily. I get mad at people, which is murder in my heart. I lust after women, which is adultery. I covet things that don't belong to me. I don't always love God with all my heart, mind, and strength. I don't always love my neighbors as myself. The list goes on, and on.

I can't keep the commandments, cause if I break one I break them all {Jam 2:10}. I'm just a lowly sinner, I can only hope that God takes mercy on me.

-Charles[/color]

[memmy]

Charlie said

I can't keep the commandments, cause if I break one I break them all {Jam 2:10}. I'm just a lowly sinner, I can only hope that God takes mercy on me.

He already did, over 2000 years ago.

Memmy :D[/color]

[Cliftyman]

John 14
23Jesus replied, \"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

[/color]

[memmy]

I am thinking that we all still need to realize that we are still a work in progress.

We need to stay focused on our goal, and that is to be more Christlike.

I believe the way to grow is to do just that, grow.

Never thinking we have it all, already, as far as the knowledge and understanding, and never to lose the drive to find more, so that we can arm ourselves for this battle we call life in the world.

We do that, IMO, by focusing on Him, His word. Praising Him and His goodness, serving Him through Love of others. We need to try harder to stay away from backbiting others when they don't agree with us, because we are just the same as anyone else looking for God in our everyday lives.

When we focus on Him and Him only, we tend to lose track of what everyone else is doing. The forest becomes clearer because the trees become our focus, so to speak. We remove the log from our eyes so we can allow others to have the speck removed, not by our power and law keeping, but by God, our Father and Savior in Him, Jesus Christ.

Let's continue to look to Him for our guidance, not each others spiritual sword fighting.

None of us are any different than each other when it comes to being more law abiding. We all continue to break the laws God has for us. They aren't meant as a measure of \"goodness\", they are meant as a way to help us live in this world, and still have a connection to what our Father wants for us, a life abundant.

Yes, even here and now.

Blessings,

Memmy :D

[spurly]

In my opinion, in the restoration movement we don't give the Old Testament its proper place.  We think we can ignore most of the Old Testament, because we are under a New Covenant.  However, the Old Testament still contains many, many, passages that contain the self-revelation of God.  Through the Old Testament we can see who God is, what he is like, and some of the things that he expects for us - God does not change.  

There are also many principles behind the laws of the Old Covenant that also apply to us who live under the New Covenant.  

Just my two cents,

Kevin

[CSloan]

John 14
24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Cliff,

I can only gather from your posting John 14:24 without comment, that you are implying that I'm not saved because I sin and don't keep the law. I don't know, maybe your right.

[span style=\'color:red\']1Jo 3:9   Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.[/span]

Like I said, I can only pray God will have mercy on me a sinner {Luk 18:13}.

-Charles[/color]

[Cliftyman]

that you are implying that I'm not saved

You implied wrong... that would be a rather harsh implication for me to make and very judgemental.

I posted the verse I did because I believe Jesus Christ obviously wanted us to obey him and he said to the disciples that if they loved him they would obey him.  He didn't simply say \"believe in who I am\" he said \"obey my teaching\".

I was simply posting that to prove that obedience is part of believing in Jesus Christ and loving him and others as he loved us.[/color]

[CSloan]

You implied wrong... that would be a rather harsh implication for me to make and very judgemental.

Cliff,

Sorry for misunderstanding your reasons for posting that passage. I wasn't sure, but I shouldn't have made it sound like an accusation.

I was simply posting that to prove that obedience is part of believing in Jesus Christ and loving him and others as he loved us.

Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}

-Charles[/color]

[Cliftyman]

Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}

Amen to that... just a misunderstanding of ways of presenting our views which seem to be the same...  :D[/color]

[OxyMoron]

Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}

-Charles

So Charles, how would you keep the spirit (adultry) and not keep the letter.

[CSloan]

So Charles, how would you keep the spirit (adultry) and not keep the letter.

OxyMoron,

I can only assume you are asking how do we not commit adultery without keeping the letter of the law. The answer is to walk in the Spirit. {Gal 5:16-23}

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:18   
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.[/span]

-Charles[/color]

[OxyMoron]

\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).

I suppose you posted this scripture as proof that we do not need to keep Gods sabbath day.

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I guess the best way to figure what above scripture is talkin about, is to find other scriptures that are talkin about the same thing. Meat and drink in respect to holydays (feast days), new moons and the sabbaths.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Wow, even in the same order as Col.2. Now i guess we can look at the specific meat and drink offerings of the holy days (feast days), new moons, and sabbath days.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. [7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. [8] But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. [9] And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [10] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: [11] And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. [12] And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord. [13] And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws contained in the ordinances. But it was during the holy day of passover that Jesus was crucified. So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days?

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

[OxyMoron]

COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus blotted out "only

[OxyMoron]

COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ordinances. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service which STOOD ONLY in sacrifice offerings (meats and drinks),  and carnal ordinances such as circumcision which were abolished in Christ.

HEBREWS 10  [1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So ya see, it was the law contained in the ordinances, which stood only in meat an drink offerings, which were the shadow of Christ. The sacrifices.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

In this scripture you can see the shadow of Christ. The meat and drink offerings of the sabbath. The sabbath was not the shadow of Christ. It was (according to the scriptures) the meat and drink offerings. The laws contained within the ordinances.

1 COR.5  [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

We are to still keep Gods feast days (Holydays) and His sabbaths as the new testament commands us to. Only now, Christ is our passover sacrifice for sin. No more burnt offerings. No more meat offerings. No more drink offerings. And even the laws of the feast of unleavened bread have been fulfilled in Christ. Have a peanut butter and jelly during The Feast of Unleavened Bread and let no man judge you for this.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

[OxyMoron]

Hi James, theres one other way to look at the scripture you sent. The oblations angle.

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Bring no more vain oblations in the new moons and the sabbath.  WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings (oblations) to the cross. The sabbath, the new moons, and holydays (feastdays) were not nailed to the cross nor were the 10 commandments.

Numbers 18  [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.

Just wanted to show you this scripture to confirm that the oblations were the offerings by ordinance.

EZEK.45  [15] And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.[16] All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel.[17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Once again you can read that it was the (oblations) burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths. And it was the PRINCE OF PEACE who prepared the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

LUKE 22  [15] And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:[16]For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.[17] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:[18] For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

The bread-meat offering-now Christ
The wine-drink offering-now Christ
The blood of animals-sin offering-THE BLOOD OF CHRIST

[OxyMoron]

I can only assume you are asking how do we not commit adultery without keeping the letter of the law. The answer is to walk in the Spirit. {Gal 5:16-23}

Hi C
In order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. You can not close your eyes (lust of the eyes) and commit the letter (adultry) and say your walking in the spirit. Ya see what im getting at?

[edpobre]

\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).

I suppose you posted this scripture as proof that we do not need to keep Gods sabbath day.

oxymoron,

The above is what apostle Paul learned from the Lord Jesus. And what Jesus says takes precedence over what iswritten in the OIld Testament because in these last days, God SPOKE to us by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2).

As a matter of fact, Jesus himself and the apostles BROKE the Sabbath (Matt. 12:1; John 5:18). In other wrds, Jesus and the apostles did NOT observe Sabbath!

Jesus said, \"...Therefore, it is lawful to do GOOD on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).

This is CONTRARY to what God COMMANDED his ancient nation, Israel, thus: \"Do NOT bring a load out of your houses or do ANY work on the Sabbath, as I commanded your forefathers\" (Jeremiah 17:22).

Please note the distinction.

In the Old Testament, observance of Sabbath means you are NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath.

Jesus did NOT observe Sabbath because he and his apostles DID work on the Sabbath: they gathered food (Matt. 12:12) and Jesus healed the sick (John 5:16,18).

But Jesus said to them: \"It is LAWFUL to do GOOD on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).

This means that anything GOOD that is DONE on a Sabbath is LAWFUL like, earning a living, helping others CARRY loads, healing the sick, worshipping God, etc.

Of course, if one prefers to observe Sabbath the way the ancient people of God were commanded and do NOTHING, that's one's prerogative.

But that does NOT mean that he is more righteous than others or his church is the true church.

Ed[/color]

[OxyMoron]

Hello edpobre
Most claim that the law was to be kept until the cross. By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned. We all know He was without sin. Jesus never broke the original commandment. He did however not keep all the added restrictions of the sabbath that were added on to by the jews. This did not make them happy. You said that Jesus and the apostles did not observe the sabbath?

LUKE 4  [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17  [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

PAUL kept the sabbath

ACTS 13  [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

GENTILES taught on the sabbath

Can anyone show me in scripture where anyone kept sunday (other than those that worshiped baal), as a day of rest?

[CSloan]

Hi C
In order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. You can not close your eyes (lust of the eyes) and commit the letter (adultry) and say your walking in the spirit. Ya see what im getting at?

OxyMoron,

What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.

[span style=\'color:red\']Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.[/span]

-Charles

[zoonance]

If the law says not to commit adultery, and one does not commit adultery because we know it hurts God and the innocent, then one is both keeping the law and the spirit of the law.  If one does not commit adultery because the law says not to but boy do I really want to with her/him... I am keeping the law but not the spirit... but the innocent are still \"protected\" (but probably not emotionally, etc which is just as destructive.  The letter of the law is not exactly the same as the law.  Do not work on the sabbath is the law.   The definition of what is work (lifting 2 pounds is work but 2.5 is breaking the law - as a dumb example)where not specifically addressed in the scripture, would be an attempt to keep the letter of the law but miss the spirit of the law.   Obeying is not 'keeping the letter of the law but not the spirit', it is obedience.  Doing what is right when you really don't want to is obedience.  Not doing something wrong in order to feel good about yourself, look down on others, bind your \"spirituality\" on others, etc... comes close to understanding the difference to WHY we obey in terms of keeping the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.  Enough of my ramblings!

[OxyMoron]

What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The scriptures will speak for themselves

[CSloan]

What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The scriptures will speak for themselves

You ignore Rom 7:6, and our delieverance from the law wherein we being dead were held. Scripture will speaks for itself, but lets consider context.

-Charles[/color]

[OxyMoron]

Hi C
You seem to be implying that if we walk in the spirit of the law that we are no longer walking in the letter. I guess i can explain what im trying to say by showing scriptures about fulfilling the law.

MATT.5  [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law? Did he mean he came to do away with the law or make the law even greater? First he says he has not come to destoy the law. OK. Then he goes on to say the law is intact until heaven and earth pass. I know the earth is still here, so according to Jesus we are still under the law. And when we look at verses 21 and 22 we can see how Jesus fulfilled the law. He tells us not only to keep the letter of the law (thou shall not kill) but we are also to keep the spirit of the law (don't even get angry).

MATT.5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Again Jesus fills full another one of the 10 commandments. Adultry (the letter of the law) and lust of the eyes (the spirit of the law).

ROMANS 7 [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is spiritual. The letter of the law is so much easier to keep than the spirit of the law. Jesus magnified the law to a spiritual realm.  And if you sit and think about it you will realize you cant keep the spirit of the law if you are not first walking in the letter of the law.

ISAIAH 42  [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42 is speaking of Jesus. Just read the whole chapter. Theres no question about it. The above scripture says Jesus would come and will magnify the law. Yup, and the new testament bears this out. He made the commandments even greater

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Jesus magnified the 10 commandments to a spiritual level. But as ive said before, theres no way to walk in the spirit of the law without first walking in the letter of the law. Think about it.

[CSloan]

What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?

[span style=\'color:red\']Rom 8:3   For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/span]

-Charles

[OxyMoron]

Charles, in the book of Romans we can find words written that say we are not under the law. Its really not easy to understand what this means. Is it the penalty of the law if we are walking in the spirit of the law? After you graduated from law school? Even Peter understood that Pauls writings were hard to understand.

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

But if you were to go through the whole book of Romans you would have to conclude that we still must keep the law.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3 is clearly pointing out that we could never be justified by the works of the law.  We can only truly be justified by grace through faith. For all have sinned, and come short of keeping the commandments. Filthy rags we are! With all that being said, are we to make void the law? GOD FORBID!

ROMANS6 [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid

ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

All these scriptures out of Romans are telling us the same thing. We as christians are capable of sinning and transgressing the law.

ROMANS 6 [10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Again the scriptures are telling us we are capable of sin. But as you can see, they are telling us not to walk in sin.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

[OxyMoron]

If Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Seems according to scripture that in order to receive the Holy Spirit we must keep Gods 10 commandments. So if you really do have a spirit in you telling you not to keep one of Gods 10 commandments....

2COR.11[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might well bear with him.

Do not bear with that spirit.

[CSloan]

the doers of the law shall be justified.

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]

-Charles

[edpobre]

Hello edpobre
Most claim that the law was to be kept until the cross.

Was it the law on Sabbath that was to be kept until the cross? Please show me the scripure.

By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned.

That's a LIE oxymoron. I did NOT say Jesus sinned. I simply said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath. Did Jesus sin? No, because when he said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12), he was only saying what God COMMANDED him to say (John 12:49).

We all know He was without sin.

That is NOT the issue oxymoron. The issue is: Do Christians HAVE to OBSERVE Sabbath? The answer is NO because Christ said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.\"

The original command of God to the Isarelites was for them \"NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath\" (Jer. 17:21-22).

Jesus never broke the original commandment.

Do you pretend to know more about observing the Sabbath than the Jews in Jesus' time who were specifically COMMANDED by God to observe it? The Jews said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath (John 5:18). How can you pretend to know more than them oxymoron?

He did however not keep all the added restrictions of the sabbath that were added on to by the jews. This did not make them happy.

The command NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath is a COMMAND of God - not an added restriction (Jer. 17:21-22).

You said that Jesus and the apostles did not observe the sabbath?

The Jews said it oxymoron - not I. The Bible says in Matt. 12:1-2 and John 5:18.

LUKE 4  [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17  [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

PAUL kept the sabbath

Jesus and the apostles did NOT go to the synagogues to OBSERVE Sabbath. They went there to TEACH the word of God. Where else could Jesus and the apostles find the people to preach to on the Sabbath but the synagogues?

ACTS 13  [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

GENTILES taught on the sabbath

Can't you even read correctly oxymoron? The verse says, \"the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.\"

Jesus and the apostles WORKED on Sabbath at the synagogues. They DID the WORK of God by PREACHING God's work.

Can anyone show me in scripture where anyone kept sunday (other than those that worshiped baal), as a day of rest?

TRUE Christians do not observe a \"rest day\" or what most people call Sabbath. The day of rest for TRUE Christians is the second coming of Christ when they will rest from their labors - in he Holy City.

We do our congregational worship service ANY day that is agreed upon by the congregation and the locale leadership.

The important thing is, we WORSHIP the Father in Spirit and in TRUTH (John 4:23).

Ed[/color]

[OxyMoron]

the doers of the law shall be justified.

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]

-Charles[/color]

Your post looks like your quoting me CSloan. In reallity your quoting Jesus. The WORD of God that became flesh.

[OxyMoron]

By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned.

That's a LIE oxymoron. I did NOT say Jesus sinned. I simply said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath.[/color]

You simply said Jesus broke the sabbath.

Need i say more?

[CSloan]

the doers of the law shall be justified.

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]

-Charles

Your post looks like your quoting me CSloan. In reallity your quoting Jesus. The WORD of God that became flesh.

It is clear to anyone who reads my post that I quoted you selectively repeating the last portion of Romans 2:13 (written by Paul), in a feeble attempt to support justification through works.

Sorry if this was somehow unclear.

-Charles[/color]

[OxyMoron]

That is NOT the issue oxymoron. The issue is: Do Christians HAVE to OBSERVE Sabbath? The answer is NO because Christ said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.\"

So what your saying is, its a \"bad thing\" to obey God and keep His commandments.

[OxyMoron]

Hi C Sloan
I know that we are not justified by our works. Its only by the grace of God that we are saved. But dont ya see by the scriptures that those who are given this free gift try to please the God of creation. There will be only a few saved. The scriptures bear this out. Yet, there are many who claim to believe. The devil believes, and trembles! Theres more to it. Its never to late, as long as we still live. The workers sent out to the fields, the same reward. Sent out early, sent out late. Lets get it right.

[OxyMoron]

TRUE Christians do not observe a \"rest day\" or what most people call Sabbath. The day of rest for TRUE Christians is the second coming of Christ when they will rest from their labors - in he Holy City.

Hi. Is this the city your looking for?

REV. 3 [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

REV. 22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

According to James, you shouldnt leave out the 4th

Do you believe these new testament scriptures will stand?  Or do you believe that you have a special "in