Gods Sabbath Day

[kate]

Good scripture reference, Ollie.
The whole chapter is good to read.  Also, Romans 7:4 makes it pretty clear that we are DEAD to the law  by the body of Christ.
Kate

[OxyMoron]

oxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe

[OxyMoron]

Hi Kate
May you find what your lookin for.

[OxyMoron]

Do you believe in strenght in numbers?

LUKE 12 [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

little flock

MATT.7  [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and few there be that find it.

few there be that find it

MATT.7  [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In footnotes of the KJB, iniquity = lawlessness.  You can find this in 2 THES. 2 verse 7. And the many have come in the name of JESUS saying we need not keep GODS 10 commandments.

LUKE 13  [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Jesus himself tells us that "the many

[kate]

Hi Kate
May you find what your lookin for.

Thank you Oxy.  I pray we all  find whatever God has for us to find. I trust He is directing our paths.

I was reading in 2 Thes and in v 15, Paul tells the people to hold fast to the traditions they had been taught.
I don't think he's speaking of  the Mosaic Law, because he says they had been taught by word (preaching/teaching)
or epistle. I believe that would be the New testament writings.  He could have easily said the law, but he didn't.

Just a thought.
Kate[/color]

[ollie]

oxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe

[kate]

Good post, Ollie
Kate

[OxyMoron]

Ollie
You wrote
I get exited over Jesus Christ and God's gift to us through HIm. He is the way, the truth, and the life

No doubt about it.

[OxyMoron]

GALATIANS 3 [23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

First i wanna say that you will find many scriptures in Galatians that are speakin only of the law of circumcision. In Galatians six short chapters you will find circumcision mentioned 16 times. You will not find the
word  "commandments

[OxyMoron]

Do you believe the below covenant has arrived or is for a time in the near future?

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Everytime I bring up scripture proving that christians are to obey God and keep His commandments, I always hear the same argument. The "many

[OxyMoron]

If you still believe this covenant has arrived lets look into \"Behold, the days come\"

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Behold what days come? What happens during those days?

AMOS 9 [13] Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. [14] And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. [15] And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.

The gathering of Gods people to the land promised (verse 15). The 1000yr period of rest.

JEREMIAH 23 [5] Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. [6] In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. [7] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [8] But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Yup. The gathering of Gods people. In a twinkling of an eye.

HEBREWS 8 [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

"After those days

[OxyMoron]

Am i being shunned by the \"milk drinkers\"?

1 COR. 3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. [3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

We should be teachers of the word but everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word. So what is Hebrews 5 saying?

ISAIAH 28  [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Well, in Hebrews the scripture points out we should be teachers of the Word but we just don't get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. So who are these people that are being spoken of in verse 12? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31  [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing.

GOT MILK?

[OxyMoron]

Anyone here believe these NEW TESTAMENT scriptures?

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1]  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
 
DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

ARE YOU CHASTENED BY GOD
HEBREWS 12 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.[6] Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO GRACE WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT "JUST BELIEVE

[OxyMoron]

Im only looking for the truth. Please talk to me.

[DCR]

OxyMoron,

I guess some issues get more response than others on this message board.  But, here's what I think regarding observance of the Sabbath.  

I have no problem with anyone choosing to observe the Sabbath or parts of the Old Law, as long as no one seeks to be justified by following the law.

Galatians 5
  2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.


I see no prohibition of following the things of Old Law for the right reasons, nor do I see any instruction in the New Testament that the Jewish Christians must discontinue observing the Sabbath, considering that was their custom.  But, what I do see, however, is that these things were not to be required for Christians.

Here is a part of the letter that the apostles sent out to address the circumcision issue.  Many Jewish Christians were trying to require Gentile obedience of the Old Law, including the requirement that they be circumcised.  But, it was decided that these things ought not to be required of Gentiles:

Acts 15
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

Finally...

Colossians 2
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

[OxyMoron]

Hi DCR
Acts 15- Page 10
Colossians 2- page 5

Galatians?
The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. The "many

[DCR]

Hi DCR
Acts 15- Page 10
Colossians 2- page 5

Galatians?
The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so.

Was circumcision not a commandment, one of God's commandments to Abraham and the children of Israel?

The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. The "many

[marc]

When Paul says things like \"we are not under law but under grace\" in Romans, and talks at length about how we're free from law in Galatians, mentioning everything else specifically is no longer necessary.  However, if you're looking for something specific about the commandments (the word is used only 22 times in the NIV, btw, old and new testaments combined), there's always Ephesians 2

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

btw, if someone chooses to observe the Sabbath to honor God, I have no problem with that.  To me, though, I cannot get the idea that we are required to do so today from the scriptures.  :shrug: The idea seems to go against the whole thrust of the New Testament.[/color]

[OxyMoron]

DCR
You wrote
(By the way, the phrase \"Ten Commandments\" doesn't actually appear in the text from what I can tell.  That is simply how we traditionally refer to them.)

Exodus 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deut. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut. 10 [4] And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the Lord spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the Lord gave them unto me.

[OxyMoron]

Thanks for bringing up Eph.2. I dont think thats been talked about

Ephes. 2 [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Wow! Marc does your bible really use those words you posted? Seems all these new bibles change the words in order to fit whatever doctrine their following. The laws contained in the ordinances were discussed on page 5 in great detail, using the scriptures. So how about lookin at the rest of Eph.2

EPH.2  [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

OK, we are saved by grace, it is a gift we really do not deserve. But what are these "good works

[marc]

The only difference in what the NIV says and the KJV that you posted is that you can understand the NIV.

I don't have much patience with the \"if that translation contradicts what I believe, that translation can't be right\" arguments.  

You shouldn't have to go in circles to figure out what the Bible says.  What the KJV says is exactly correct, but you don't seem to be understanding it.  I would recommend using a Bible that is written in the language you speak rather than one using archaic English.  It may help you see more clearly.

If you don't like the NIV, there are other choices.  

The reason for this isn't necessarily this particular verse (you seem to be confused here by something about \"contained in\" that doesn't mean what you say it means--when I read it the obvious meaning is that, well, the commandments are part of the ordinances, just like it says), but for the sake of understanding the whole thrust of the Bible.  Pick up a modern language version and read through the NT.  Get the context, the meaning.  Understand the whole thrust of the books and the letters, and the whole transition from Judaism to a Jewish-style Christianity to an inclusive Christianity.  Understanding the whole thing will help keep you from getting confused about the meaning of individual verses, as you seem to be doing.

In general, a good rule of thumb is that if it's impossible to get a certain meaning out of a passage unless someone explains it to you that way, that's probably not what it means. And if it is, it's likely not something important enough to build a major doctrine around.  God doesn't play games with us; He wants us to follow Him.

I feel bad about posting this, and have edited it over and over again to try to soften what I'm saying.  I don't think throwing one scripture against another solves anything, and have not participated in the theology discussions lately because of their tendency toward debate and argument, mostly concerning the same two or three issues.  There is a difference in engaging in open discussion in which those involved are trying to come to a sharper understanding and engaging in a battle of words, in which the participants are doing nothing other than trying to prove that they are right.

I shouldn't have posted here to begin with.

[DCR]

DCR
You wrote
(By the way, the phrase \"Ten Commandments\" doesn't actually appear in the text from what I can tell.  That is simply how we traditionally refer to them.)

Exodus 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deut. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut. 10 [4] And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the Lord spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the Lord gave them unto me.

OxyMoron,

Oops.  You are absolutely right about those passages referring to the \"ten commandments\".  I guess I was just looking in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 and didn't see it there.  But, I didn't think about their being referred to as the \"ten commandments\" elsewhere.

Aside from that correction, my point still remains that the Law contained many more commandments than just those ten.

[DCR]

In general, a good rule of thumb is that if it's impossible to get a certain meaning out of a passage unless someone explains it to you that way, that's probably not what it means. And if it is, it's likely not something important enough to build a major doctrine around.  God doesn't play games with us; He wants us to follow Him.

:thumbsup:

Very good rule of thumb.

[Hobie]

Boy o bouy
Lets all stay afloat
Has the many been decieved as the bible claims. Will we enter into His rest (Heb.4) or will we be decieved by the spirit of unbelief (Heb.3). Break 1 ya break them all. Right James? The Kingdom, the book of life, are they 1 in the same. No sittin Bull. Do all to stand \"in that day\". How about you Ghandi?

Before we start this, i would like to say i hope by FAITH we will ALL reach the Kingdom. Im not really sure that anyone understands how God will work things out in the end. HE gave us the scriptures. Thats really all we have to work with. I stand corrected. HE will send us a helper. A comforter.

Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

We can see what God says...
Isaiah 56:1-7
1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

[Rella]

We can see what God says...
Isaiah 56:1-7
1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Hobie, those verses are fine, and I understand why you place importance on the Sabbath.

But here is a question for serious thought.

Suppose there were another Reformation of sorts and Christians worldwide returned to observing the seventh-day Sabbath properly — sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

Would it then be wrong for Christians to also honor the first day of the week, Sunday?

After all, the first day of the week is the day our risen Lord secured our hope and eternal life through His resurrection. It is also the day the disciples gathered together in the New Testament.

And Jesus said in Mark 2:28 that "the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." If Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, then surely honoring Him on the day of His resurrection cannot be offensive to God.

So if Yahweh established the seventh day as holy, and Christ brought us new life on the first day, why would it be improper for believers to joyfully honor both?

Not as legalism. Not as bondage. But out of reverence for both the Creator and the risen Savior.