Against Rock & Roll Music in Church!

[jjeanniton]

Previously, I have posted a forum on church music, outlining some fundamental Scriptural principles of acceptable church music that pleases God. More often than not, I get accused of LEGALISM for daring to assert these principles and trying to prove them from the Bible! There are professed Christian persons who think there is nothing intrinsically wrong or evil about borrowing tunes from secular pop music in order to evangelize the world or conduct a formal worship service on the Christian Sabbath.

Cranmer's Law:

    It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a [LEFTIST calling himself by the specious name of liberal] is advanced, the probability of being accused of 'bigotry', 'hatred' or 'intolerance' approaches 1 (100%).

Cranmer's Law of Church Music: it has been found by experience, that however just, righteous, reasonable, or hermeneutically SOUND and doctrinally orthodox the Scripture-proofs or natural law proofs may be for any given rule or regulation of church music requiring strict sanctity, nobility, gravity, and demureness of style (and even more importantly, strict separation from the world's style of music), If any person shall persist for a sufficiently long duration of time (or longer) in making or accepting such arguments or obeying and enforcing such a rule or regulation, the probability that he will get accused of being judgmental, uncharitable, legalistic, and/or robbing the opponents of their Christian liberty can be made as close to 100% as one pleases!

One of the more serious abuses of church music that are occurring today is that of the introduction of Rock & Roll into the repertoire of Christian music.

It is well known that Rock Music emphasizes the BEAT. It has a lot of syncopation, and the accents fall on every second beat: one TWO three FOUR one TWO three FOUR one TWO three FOUR one TWO three FOUR ..., but more traditional styles of music: accent is like this: ONE two THREE four ONE two THREE four ONE two THREE four ONE two THREE four ..., which is also the natural rhythm of the heart.

God Almighty defines music as the Melody.

http://www.av1611.org/cqguide.html:

WHAT IS ROCK MUSIC?

What is the main characteristic of rock music? What makes rock different from other music? Why does rock appeal to the flesh? What is it about rock that is has "taken-over" the music world?

In order to answer that question, let's examine the components of music. Music is composed of three main components; melody, harmony and rhythm. If these ingredients are not present, then it's not music, but noise.

Melody:

Webster's Dictionary defines melody as; 1. Sweetness of sound; music 2. The chief theme of a musical composition. 3. A tune; song (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 372)

Melody is the most prominent part of music. Melody is the theme of the tune. Without the melody line, there is no music. Melody is the horizontal line the notes follow on the music score.

Here's a few quotes from famous musicians on melody:

    "Melody is the main thing; harmony is useful only to charm the ear." Joseph Haydn (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 15)

    "Three things belong to composing, first of all melody; then again melody; then finally, for the third time, melody." Salomon Jadassohn (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 15)

    "Melody is the very essence of music." Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 16)

Harmony:

Webster's Dictionary defines harmony as; Agreeable proportion of sound. A succession of chords. (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 281)

Harmony is when two or more note are played at the same time. Harmony adds depth to the melody line. Harmony is the basis for the formation of chords. Harmony is the vertical line where the notes meet on the music score.

Rhythm:

Our friend, Webster defines rhythm as; The pattern of tones with regard to their relative time value. (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 490)

Rhythm is the movement in music. Without rhythm, music would be one, long continuous sound, or an uncontrollable noise. Rhythm or the beat is the "glue" that holds everything together. The rhythm is an "unseen" but required component of the music score.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT ROCK MUSIC?

Because of that, rock is unlike any other music. In other music, the melody is the main component, but in rock – the rhythm or th beat literally takes over the music.

    "The rhythm in rock is the dominant part of the sound. The heavy emphasis on the BEAT is what distinguishes rock from every other type of music." (Frank Garlock, Music in the Balance, p. 32)

    "Perhaps the most important defining quality of rock and roll is the BEAT, . . . Rock and roll is different from other music primarily because of the BEAT." (Charles Brown, The Art of Rock and Roll, p. 42)

And it is that BEAT that the FLESH loves!

    "The sexuality of music is usually referred to in terms of it's rhythm — it is the BEAT that commands a directly PHYSICAL response." (Simon Frith, Sound Effects, Youth, Leisure, and the Politics of Rock 'n' Roll, p. 240)

    "Rhythm is the element of music most closely allied to BODY MOVEMENT [fleshly, carnal], to PHYSICAL action. Its simpler patterns when repeated over and over [which is exactly what rock does] can have a hypnotic effect on us". (Joseph Machlis, The Enjoyment of Music, p. 19)

Larry Norman, in his song, "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music", sings about the FLESHLY and PHYSICAL response (moves my feet) of the BEAT of rock.

    I ain't knocking the hymns,
    Just give me a song that has a BEAT.
    I ain't knocking the hymns,
    Just give me a song that moves my feet

I've talked to hundreds of young people about the satanic and filthy lyrics in secular rock and nearly every one, replies, "I don't listen to the lyrics. I don't care what the lyrics say. It's the BEAT that I get in to".

    Donnie Brewer of 1970's groups Grand Funk says:

    "We take the kids away from their parents and their environment to where the only reality is the rhythm and the BEAT." (Hart, Lowell Satan's Music Exposed, p.102)

    When secular rock-star, Michael Jackson was asked why he did the filthly-sexual, hand gestures on stage, he replied:

    "It's the music that COMPELS me to do it. You don't think about it, it just happens. I'M A SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM." (The Evening Star, February 11, 1993, p. A10)

I've had hundreds of CCMers' say to me, "The Bible gives no instructions on the STYLE of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture." I have read many articles and books by CCM advocates, that claim, the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to.

Don Butler, Gospel Music Association executive director

    "There is no such thing as 'gospel music'. Every style and form of music can become gospel, whether it's jazz, pop, rock 'n' roll, or rap." (IM Mar/Apr 1991 p. 27)

But "what saith the Lord"? Does the Bible give us any indication to the type of music we should sing? Did the Lord God who made heaven and earth, who created music and sound, who put so much emphasis on music in His Word — did He forget to tell us what is Christian music?

Not hardly. Thank God — He has given us instructions for our music. Thank God — we can BURY "once and for all" the ridiculous LIE that — "the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture."

    Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16

    For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of MELODY. Isaiah 51:3

    And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making MELODY in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-19

The Lord God refers to music as — MELODY! According to God — the emphasis of Christian music is the MELODY — not the BEAT! How is it, that the CCM world keeps "parroting" — "the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture"? Is it because they can NOT read 5th grade English? Or is it — they do NOT care what God says! I've shown many CCMers Ephesians 5:19, and nearly all coolly, reply, "Aw, It don't really mean that". In other words — "I don't care what God says — I'm gonna rock 'n' roll"!

I'm reminded of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, as he described some people, much like the CCMers, who "having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not?"

    17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither UNDERSTAND? have ye your heart yet hardened?
    18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? Mark 8:17-18

So far we've seen:

    1. MELODY is the main theme of music.
    2. Rock music emphasizes the BEAT.
    3. God defines music as MELODY.

Now are you ready for this? Fasten your seat belt and hold on — here comes a biggee! Most of rock music and CCM does not have ANY MELODY! According to the technical definition of music — rock is NOT even music! According to the Lord God — rock music is NOT music!

NO MELODY = NO MUSIC!

The world famous composer and conductor, Dimitri Tiomkin said of rock music:

    "The big beat is deliberately aimed at exciting the listener. . .There is actually very little MELODY, little sense in the lyrics, ONLY RHYTHM [beat]". (Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, Aug., 8, 1965, p. 9J)

Lenny Seidel, a concert pianist and twenty-five year Christian music scholar, gives this definition of both godly music and rock music:

    "True godly music will be composed of three elements - all in perfect balance with each other. They are: melody, harmony, and rhythm.

    Rock "music" has NO MELODY only fragments of melody endlessly repeated. Since there is no true melody, there is no real harmony. There is ONLY RHYTHM. And rhythm in and of itself is not music." (Leonard J. Seidel, Face the Music – Contemporary Music On Trial, pp. 46-51)

In his classic book, The Understanding of Music, author Charles R. Hoffer, answers our question: How does rock differ from other popular music?:

    "How does rock differ from jazz and other popular music? One characteristic is its HEAVY BEAT, which led one critic to define rock as 'music in which the bass drum carries the MELODY?'" (Charles R. Hoffer, The Understanding of Music, p. 503)

Popular author, Martha Bayles, writes in her eye-opening book, "Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music":

    ". . . popular music seems terminally hostile to any sound traditionally associated with music." (Martha Bayles, Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music, p. 4)

Even the secular, satanic rockers the Rolling Stones admit rock is NOT music — but NOISE!

        "It's a NOISE we make. That's all. You could he kind and call it music." Mick Jagger, Rolling Stones (Roy Carr, The Rolling Stones - An Illustrated Record, p. 37)

    NO MELODY = NOISE!

Rock music emphasizes that HARD, driving BEAT. ...

Here are some scriptural precepts and regulations for Church Music. Yet obedience to these precepts is nowadays routinely called LEGALISM!

http://www.av1611.org/crock/crock1.html:

1. Its message is Scriptural (Col 3:16). Good Christian music must present a message that is true to the Word of God and doctrinally sound.

2. It should lead us to think in Biblical patterns and not be suggestive of evil either in message or in musical arrangement (Phil. 4:8). The text and music should not be cheap or tawdry.

3. It should help us to honor God with our bodies (I Cor. 6:19-20). Music which tends to imitate the effects of godless rock upon the human body or which either destroys or impairs one's hearing is not Christian music.

4. It will maintain a balance between "spirit" and "understanding" (I Cor. 14:15). Music that is primarily emotional froth would not fulfill this requirement.

5. It will contain words that are full of beauty, dignity, reverence and simplicity, words that are worthy of the worship of a holy God (Isa. 6:1-6).

6. It will be free of mental association with worldly musical styles and evidence a holy consecrated character (Rom. 12:2; I Jn. 2:15). Music that seeks to "copy" the worldly approach is not honoring to God.

7. It should be expressive of the peace that accompanies the Christian life, not the clamor, confusion, din, and turmoil of the world (Col. 3:15-16). The various forms of rock music do not contribute to peace of heart but partake of the constant jangle of the sinful world. Christ promises peace to His people (Jn. 14:27).

8. It should be characterized by musical preciseness, finesse of poetic technique and should evidence a structure of harmony and order. God is a God of order and not disorder (I Cor. 14:40).

9. It should promote and accompany a life-style of godliness, modesty, and holy quietness [and the due respect for the Divinely ordained distinction between the sexes], and not modish fashion, suggestive acts, or sexual aggressiveness (1 Pet. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-12).

10. It should not contribute to the temptation of new or weak believers (Rom. 14:13,21; 15:2). Music that reminds newly-saved converts of their old life of sin is to be abhorred and rejected.

[MeMyself]

I read your list and I don't find those things to be happening in most of the praise songs I've song along to in Church.  There are a few whose lyrics are "romantic" and I don't sing along to those, but allow grace for those that don't share my conviction (or preference).

How about you give us a sampling of what you feel comfortable singing along to in order to worship God in a way that edifies your walk with Him? We've heard a LOT about what you hate...how about something you love now?

[MeMyself]

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-music.html

Christian Music - The Beat
There is a line of teaching that says certain drum beats appeal to the flesh and can invite demonic activity. Adherents go so far as to say drum sets (with several drums and cymbals) should not be allowed in a church. Some examples of "evil" drum beats are:

- Syncopation: an unexpected emphasis in the beat, whether continuous or occasional. Syncopation has been used in European music since the Middle Ages (Bach, Handel, Haydn, etc.) and is very common in music styles ranging from ragtime to rock to ska. Whenever a beat appears to come a little too late or early, that's syncopation.

- Pulsating: when a primary beat is in eighth notes or faster. Techno music often has a pulsating beat.

- Polyrhythmic: when the beat consistently includes two different timings (such as 2/4 and 6/8) at the same time. This timing is used in Beethoven's Sixth String Quartet and Mozart's Twelfth Piano Sonata. A variation of the polyrhythmic beat, cross-rhythm, is used extensively in sub-Saharan music. Polyrhythmic beats are also frequently found in jazz.

It is true that drum rhythms have been used in pagan religious ceremonies for millennia. But drums were used in Jewish ceremonies as well (the "timbrel" of Exodus 15:20, 1 Samuel 18:6, and Psalm 81:2 was similar to our tambourine). It is not the beat that draws demonic attention, but the intent of the participants. Ironically, it is the slower, steady drum beats that can cause a listener to drop his guard and fall into a trance-like state. While it is true that church sound technicians the world over have a particular challenge in attenuating the volume of drums, the Bible never cautions against drum beats.

[chosenone]

Honestly its not hard. If there is a church where you don't like the style of worship then don't go. Occasionally I don't sing a particular song if the words don't seem quite right but that's very rare.

To be honest I don't read these long cut and pasted posts, I would rather hear what the op likes to sing,not some other persons opinion.

[NorrinRadd]

Honestly its not hard. If there is a church where you don't like the style of worship then don't go. Occasionally I don't sing a particular song if the words don't seem quite right but that's very rare.

To be honest I don't read these long cut and pasted posts, I would rather hear what the op likes to sing,not some other persons opinion.

Ditto.  I did skim it, and everything I saw was subjective opinion imposed on Scripture.

I do note the humorous irony of the opening post, where the writer complains about being accused of "legalism," and then quickly makes his points by citing something called "Cranmer's Law."   

I also am struck by the delightfully appropriate name of one of his/her links:  "crock."  Indeed, the whole post was basically one big crock.   

[James2018]

There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.

The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?

[faroukfarouk]

There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.

The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?

Well I do think that some hard hitting hard rock with Biblical lyrics is really effective.

[faroukfarouk]

Chosenone: For a lot of young ppl, metal and hard rock is a style that come naturally to them.
While these styles might not be best for general congregational singing, it's shouldn't be surprising if Christian young people think that Biblical lyrics set to hard rock and metal is effective, and communicates to people.

[Alan]

There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.

How do you know?

[Alan]

Chosenone: For a lot of young ppl, metal and hard rock is a style that come naturally to them.
While these styles might not be best for general congregational singing, it's shouldn't be surprising if Christian young people think that Biblical lyrics set to hard rock and metal is effective, and communicates to people.

Young people I have spoken to told me they were first inspired by the words in the music, setting that music to a familiar style made it possible to be heard in the first place.


God speaks in numerous ways. I can appreciate Korn and their evangelistic efforts.

[Texas Conservative]

I hope there is no Chris Tomlin music in heaven.  He stinks.

[mommydi]

Screamo gospel-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfiovhkpcm4

A friend of mine's kids love this stuff. I can't handle it. Maybe it's my age.

[Jaime]

I wonder what Kenneth Sublett thinks about this?   

[Willie T]

To the OP,
That was a real hoot!  2,354 words (not including the title) of "Law" about how Christian music has to be written.  I am still laughing.    

[James2018]

There is a science to biblical music. It's in the bible.

There is an art to biblical music. It's in the bible.

Dr. Gene Kim is the newest, prolific biblical scholar on utube.

[NorrinRadd]

There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.

What kind of music IS in Heaven?  Chapters and verses, please.

The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?

Sure.  It can also attract their attention so the singers can present the Gospel in non-song form during breaks.

[NorrinRadd]

To the OP,
That was a real hoot!  2,354 words (not including the title) of "Law" about how Christian music has to be written.  I am still laughing.    

It was indeed a ridiculous crock.

Where did you find the number of words?  Surely you did not manually count them!

[James2018]

What kind of music IS in Heaven?  Chapters and verses, please.

Rev 5:9  And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation; 

[faroukfarouk]

Screamo gospel-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfiovhkpcm4

A friend of mine's kids love this stuff. I can't handle it. Maybe it's my age.

Maybe it's because you're not accustomed to it? :)

Some Christian young ppl seem to like it and identify with it, anyway.

[NorrinRadd]

Rev 5:9  And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation;

Uh-huh.  So?  How does that rule out "rock and roll"?

[faroukfarouk]

Rev 5:9  And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation;

Great verse! :)

[James2018]

I'm going to hang around the music threads.

I discovered music new to me and it's amazing.

Let's develop better questions and better answers about music.


 

[James2018]

Uh-huh.  So?  How does that rule out "rock and roll"?

I say this with all sincerity, don't worry about it.
God will explain it to you, probably before you're 70 years old.

Seriously, if we're talk about the most published, distributed, translated,
preached and believed bible of all time, it's the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible.
If we're talking about biblical music, that's easy, it's only one book.

Never mind the sectarian amateurs. Read the book yourself.

Dr. Ruckman read 6,000 books before his Ph.D.

and then read the KJV Holy Bible 150 times.

Dr. Clayton read it 200 times.

Read their books.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm going to hang around the music threads.

I discovered music new to me and it's amazing.

Let's develop better questions and better answers about music.

I think one can enjoy the King James Bible AND appreciate hard rock with Biblical lyrics. :)

[James2018]

Amazing reply. Thank you.

I know you do and that is interesting to me

Categorically, hard rock would be war music.

I usually proceed along this line of reasoning face to face

or sometimes in a clinical setting.

The presupposition sets the premise.

The presupposition in this line of reasoning is that the KJV Holy Bible

is the book we're talking about in biblical music.

[faroukfarouk]

I know you do and that is interesting to me.

We must refine the categories.

Hard rock would be war music.

I think that it's the lyrics than count.

The style of the music and the musicians is more subjective.

Whether the musicians are in neckties and tuxedos for the men, and in backless gowns for the women in a 'classical' setting;

Or whether they are in jeans and leather, plugged earlobes and/or tattoos in a rock setting;

It's all style and subjective.

But if the lyrics are truly Biblical, this is what really counts as Christian music. :)

[James2018]

Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.

Let's agree that there is the science and language of music

and that the theology of the biblical music is in a bible,

and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.

Biblical music is not subjective., it's obviously objective.

The subject is a book and the topic is biblical music.

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.

Let's agree that there is the science of the language of music

and the theology of the biblical music we're talking is in a bible

and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.

I do love traditional congregational singing. But hard hitting Biblical lyrics in screamo and hard rock - as Disciple might do it in Battle Lines, for example - is very effective; and musicians with earlobe plugs, tattoos, mascara, etc. are simply part of the style sometimes.

[James2018]

The question is how biblical is rock gospel ?

Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?

[faroukfarouk]

The question is how biblical is rock gospel ?

Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?

You mean the doctrine as opposed to the style?

It would be interesting to define it further.

[James2018]

You mean the doctrine as opposed to the style?

It would be interesting to define it further.

I mean the science, language and theology of music in the KJV Holy Bible

Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?

You don't have to answer.

[chosenone]

I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.

[James2018]

I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.

Yes, I'd like to know where the line is for spiritual songs.

[faroukfarouk]

I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en80q-upISU

I think these lyrics in this style are really effective, especially among young ppl. (Not necessarily for general congregational singing, though.)

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, I'd like to know where the line is for spiritual songs.

It's  a Romans 14, Christian liberty issue, I think, and necessarily subjective in terms of ppl's music style preferences.