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Messages - dpr

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End Times Forum / Re: The 666-YEAR-OLD SEA BEAST of Revelation 13
« on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 13:35:05 »
dpr  -  Well, I for one lean heavily on Isaiah’s apocalypse that describes the events at the end of the age towards the close of the first century.  Including the eradication of the demonic realm, as Isaiah predicted would happen at that time.

For your remarks related to the number 666...

Six-hundred and sixty-six was to be a calculated amount - not simply a triple repetition of the individual number of “6”.  Your theory that the 666 number represents the 6 seals, 6 trumpets, and 6 vials would only add up to a numerical value of 18 - not six-hundred and sixty-six. 

John told his readers to “count” or “calculate” this number of the Sea Beast.  Your theory of “6 and 6 and 6” doesn’t involve any calculation, so it can’t be a valid one.  It’s an interesting possibility to consider, but on closer comparison to the Rev. 13:18 context, not an acceptable interpretation.

I didn't say the 666 calculation at the end of Rev.13 represents the 6 seals, trumpets, and vials. By your saying that, it shows me you don't understand the events of those seals, trumpets, and vials, nor the timing of them.

The 666 calculation is about the number of the beast, the 2nd beast of Revelation 13. It's about the TIMING OF HIS COMING according to the event flow, not some occultic gematria formula. Antichrist appears on the 6th seal, the 6th trumpet, and 6th vial.

End Times Forum / Re: The 4th kingdom, the legs of iron
« on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 13:27:54 »
dpr, I'm adding to your list: # 5. The Holy Roman empire lives in the Popes of the Catholic church, representing over 1 .4 billion people.

# 6. Islam is a by-product of the Catholic church, and is represented by 1.4 billion people Muslims. America was settled by the European nations all of whom were born of ancient Rome. Today America is the most powerful nation in the world in wealth, military and controls the banking systems of the world, and the stock markets in New York.

If a Babylon was ever born of sin, it's New Your city. Their leaders hate Christians, their Bible and deny every aspect of Jesus Christ. Sounds and looks like ancient Rome to me, don't you think?


Sorry, but I just would not rely on your view of history, nor your interpretation of present entities.

The Babylon Harlot "great city" of Revelation 17 is Jerusalem.

The reason it is Jerusalem, because of the plan by the orthodox Jews to build another temple there and start the old covenant worship again.

The reason why the orthodox Jews want to start up old covenant worship with a temple in Jerusalem is because they STILL REJECT JESUS OF NAZARETH AS THE CHRIST. Thus they believe they are still held to the old covenant worship.

But of course you well know all this, so you might fool the majority here, but not me.

End Times Forum / Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 13:11:06 »
Humanistic evil not having anything to do with Satanic evil or demonic evil? I didn't think it possible for anyone to be so deceived about today's world, until I read the above post.

Satan is still roaming today seeking to devour -

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

That warning wasn't just for 1st century Christians either.

Satan is still not bound yet. Jesus warned us that Satan is coming. Rev.12:7 with the war in Heaven shows Satan with his angels cast out of the heavenly down to our earthly dimension, and he will seek to persecute the symbolic woman there (the Church). That casting out has yet to happen today.

End Times Forum / Re: End Times Question
« on: Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 13:00:36 »
If one really studies their Bible, especially the OT prophets in conjunction with the NT Epistles and Revelation, then it's impossible for our Lord Jesus to have returned already. His 2nd coming is still not happened today. And for those who don't know this, they certainly are in sad shape, because He warned of a certain deceptive event to occur just prior to His 2nd coming.

End Times Forum / Re: The Whore Of Babylon
« on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 15:48:12 »
The assigning of the Rev.17 Babylon Harlot to the Roman Church is a result of old hatreds. The Jews in Europe claim to have been persecuted by the Roman Church back in history, and those of the Reformation also fought (literally) against the Roman Church's armies. Many of the Reformers thought the pope was the Antichrist because of the persecutions by the Roman Church upon Protestants.

My ancestry goes back to the French Huguenots, which were the first French Protestants that the Roman Church warred against. Most of the Huguenots left France because of it. My ancestors came to the American colonies.

The Masonic Lodges in Europe also involved a falling out against the Roman Church, as the pope had the head leader of the Knights Templar order executed, along with some of their followers. Then there's the Communists of course, as they have attempted assassinating the pope back in history.

So which of those factions would most likely support the idea of the Catholic Church being the endtime Babylon Harlot? All of them most likely, mostly for political reasons.

But in reality per God's Word, our Lord Jesus revealed what 'city' is the Rev.17 Babylon Harlot for the end of this world...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

That is about the city of Jerusalem.

And note that is comparing that "great city" of Jerusalem to the old pagan immoral city of Sodom, and the old pagan nation of Egypt.

We are even told about the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit (i.e., Satan, the dragon) who will kill God's two witnesses there in Jerusalem, in our near future:

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

End Times Forum / Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 15:26:26 »

dpr  -  There are TWO DIFFERENT “abomination of desolation” events spoken about in Daniel.  Both refer to ARMIES SURROUNDING JERUSALEM”: (the first found in Dan. 8:13 and 11:31 referring to Antiochus Epiphanes’ army, and the second found in Dan 9:27b - “with abominable armies” in the KJV margin, and 12:11 referring to the Zealots and the Roman armies engaging each other in AD 66 at Jerusalem at the end of that age).

I disagree. There is only ONE "abomination of desolation" event being described in the Book of Daniel; it's simply being mentioned in different Daniel Chapters, that's all. It's the same event of the transgression of desolation in Dan.8, and the same event described in Dan.9:27, and the same event in Dan.11 the "vile person" does, and the same event mentioned in Dan.12.

And your attempt to define it being about a destruction by armies is NOT what the "abomination of desolation" event is about.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Antiochus IV served as the blueprint type for that event. He took Jerusalem with an army, corrupted the Jewish priesthood, went into the temple and placed an idol in Zeus worship on the altar, and sacrificed swine upon it. That is what the "abomination of desolation" is about, i.e., SPIRITUAL DESOLATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM (since you're using some capitals).

We should rely on Jesus’ own definition for the “abomination of desolation” in Luke 21:20-21, when we compare that verse with the parallel account of His words in Matt. 24:15-16.

Matthew 24:25-16: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readership let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21: “And when ye shall see JERUSALEM COMPASSED WITH ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...”

Luke 21:20-21 defines Matthew 24:15-16.  No ambiguity here.  It’s ARMIES surrounding Jerusalem that accomplish its desolation on those two occasions.  Neither of Daniel’s two prophecies of an abomination of desolating armies surrounding Jerusalem are scheduled for our future.  Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilled the first prophecy in 168 BC at “the latter time of their kingdom” (Dan. 8:23 - the Seleucids and the Ptolemies).  The Zealot and Roman forces fulfilled the second prophecy by surrounding Jerusalem again in the Fall of AD 66 at the start of the Roman / Jewish War at the “time of the end” (Dan. 12:4, 9).

We should rely on Jesus' pointing us back to the Book of Daniel also. And Daniel 11:31 is clear what the abomination that maketh desolate is, an IDOL setup in false worship.

We don't have to wonder a lot for how the prophecy is to be fulfilled at the very end of this world either, because at the end of Revelation 13 we are shown by Jesus through John about the 2nd beast entity setting up an "image of the beast" in false worship, and all will be commanded to worship it, or be killed.

Antiochus IV served as a blueprint only. He actually did not completely fulfill all of the Daniel prophecy because Dan.2 declares the existence of a final 5th beast kingdom of feet of ten toes supporting all the other pieces of the beast statue when Jesus (the Stone not cut out with hands) comes to smite it upon its feet, and the whole together comes tumbling down. In Matthew 24 Jesus declared as the final sign there His 2nd coming to gather His Church. So He was speaking of the "abomination of desolation" being an event at the very end of this world, just prior to His return, within the very generation that would see His return, as a matter of fact from Matt.24.

In Luke 21 Scripture about the armies surrounding Jerusalem, that will be the event of the future Antichrist's armies doing that as Antichrist will follow many of the same things as Antiochus IV did in 170 B.C. And what did Antiochus IV do back then? He went into a standing Jewish temple and PLACED AN IDOL UPON THE ALTAR and sacrificed swine upon it, SPIRITUALLY DESOLATING THE TEMPLE. Thus the idea of the armies surrounding Jerusalem involving the end of this world is NOT about the destruction by the Romans in 70 A.D. It's still about the SPIRITUAL DESOLATION OF THE TEMPLE by the Antichrist at the very end, the difference being it will involve a new Jewish temple, the 3rd one the orthodox Jews are planning to build in Jerusalem in our near future.

I don't think the coming Antichrist will sacrifice swine on the future new Jewish temple in Jerusalem, but will only place the "image of the beast" there and demand all to bow in worship to him, just as the king of Babylon demanded worship of the golden idol of himself in Daniel's day.

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

End Times Forum / Re: The 4th kingdom, the legs of iron
« on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 14:49:18 »
And I very much agree that the 20th-21st century United Nations represents the strongest evidence towards the future Revelation 13 beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. I do not believe the U.N. will be the actual beast kingdom, but the main tool behind establishing the coming one-world beast kingdom over all the earth. Their object is to mimic Christ's future kingdom over all nations.

The Daniel 2 beast statue of 5 pieces most easily describes this final one-world globalist structure for the very end of this world. Preterists keep going around in circles with a 4th beast kingdom and preached prophecy fulfilled back in history when they can't see the forest (Dan.2 passage below) for the trees:

Dan 2:31-35
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

The beast image has 5 pieces, not 4. The head of gold is topmost, then the breast and arms of silver, then the belly and thighs of brass, then the legs of iron, and then the feet of ten toes of mixed clay and iron. That's 5 pieces. Note that all those 5 pieces are "together" when the Stone (Jesus) comes to smite the feet and the whole together comes tumbling down.

1. head of gold = Babylon
2. breasts and arms = Medo/Persia
3. belly and thighs of brass = Grecia
4. legs of iron = pagan Rome
5. Question? = final one-world beast kingdom under the Antichrist

Because we are told there in Dan.2 the Stone cut without hands (our Lord Jesus), will smite the beast statue upon its feet and all the 5 pieces come tumbling down, that makes the timing for that being at the very end of this world emphatic.

The feet of mingled iron and clay suggest a global organization similar to a confederacy.    A confederacy is a loose union of sovereign states which give part of their power to the whole.   In some cases this includes military support as well as nodding affirmation of limited legislation and financial resources.

The UNITED NATIONS fits the description of a global organization along the lines of a confederacy.

There has been no such global alliance in human history and the existence of it must be considered with regard to interpretations of international and historic events.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are its a duck.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

End Times Forum / Re: What happened to them?
« on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 14:38:57 »
dpr  -  Your quote: “When they came out of their graves, it means they were then resurrected.  Nowhere does the scripture say they continued to live among their brethren.” 

Yes, it does.  You need to read the Ephesians 4:8-12 passage carefully, and recognize that the Matt. 27 resurrected saints were the “multitude of captives”, brought from the grave with Christ, and who were given to serve the church as the “gifts” of resurrected saints acting as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

There is no Scripture evidence for those who resurrected at Jesus' crucifixion continuing to live on earth thereafter. The Ephesians 4:9-10 verses are parenthetical about Jesus' resurrection, and say nothing about resurrected saints living on earth after Christ's descent into the lower parts of the earth.

Jesus showed in Luke 16 that Paradise exists with a great gulf fixed border, dividing the saved side of His servants from the other side which is the abode of hell. The resurrected saints who appeared in Jerusalem no doubt represent some of those He led out of the pit prison of Isaiah 42:7. They no doubt returned to Paradise, and represent the group of 'asleep' saints Paul said Jesus will bring with Him when He returns (1 Thess.4).

Romans 8:23 also says point-blank that they
HAD the Firstfruits among them.  This is not talking about the “fruit of the spirit” of love, joy, peace, long suffering, etc.  It’s the Firstfruits Jewish saints as in the Rev. 14:4 Firstfruits who numbered 144,000.

Romans 8 says no such thing as you say:

Rom 8:22-23
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Paul was comparing the "creation" seeking release from bondage, in contrast to those in Christ representing the firstfruits of The Holy Spirit and the promised future change at the last trump. It's about those of us still alive in flesh bodies waiting for the redemption of our spirit with the change on the last trump to the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. It's not about the asleep saints that have already died and are with Jesus now.

And if you are not opposed to historical documentation, you might want to read Eusebius’ Church History, that mentions Quadratus’ written defense of Christianity to the emperor Hadrian.  He testified that those resurrected and healed by Christ and the apostles REMAINED on earth for an extended time, as proof that Christ and His apostles were not tricksters and deceivers, but performed actual miracles that could be verified.   

I've ready a lot pseudepigrapha over the years, so I've probably been over that too, but I don't recall any of that kind of idea. (For those not aware, pseudepigrapha writings refer to spurious or pseudo writings attributed to an author in the past).

End Times Forum / Re: What peace treaty?
« on: Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 14:07:50 »
dpr, where do you get this stuff from?  You wrote, "Jesus made no covenant for 7 years. He made an eternal covenant."

It comes from directly reading the Scriptures as written, and then comparing also with other Scripture, like our Lord Jesus' Revelation, and the prophets concerning events prophesied to occur for the end of this world.

Jeremiah wrote between 627 and 586 B.C. Jeremiah 31:31, "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (all 12 tribes):

Daniel wrote Daniel 9:27 in the first year of Darius, the year, 530 B.C. Thus Daniel now adds to Jeremiah's prophesy, "He (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years.) What do you think the Lord was doing in the 3 1/2 years between his baptism in Oct of 26 .D. and 4/5/30 A.D. He was confirming his new covenant with the Jews, but was cut off at the cross. The last 3 1/2 years to be confirmed by Jesus two witnesses, see Revelation 11. "They shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3 1/2 Years.) What do you think they were sent there for? It will be to finish confirming the Lord's covenant with Israel.

The 70 sevens prophecy was given to Daniel after he had prayed for Judah's release from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He had been reading about God's promise on that from the Book of Jeremiah. The angel Gabriel then appeared to Daniel and gave him the 70 weeks prophecy which fulfillment began with the command to restore Jerusalem, then Christ's coming, and then with the 69 week ending at Christ's crucifixion. The final 70th week is still yet unfulfilled and is for the end of this world.

The people of the prince is not General Titus, the last person in verse 26 spoken of is the Messiah. Jesus is, Revelation 1:5, Jesus is, "The prince of the kings of the earth" note lower case "p". Jesus rules over all, He rules the kings, the people and puts limitations on the devil himself. See Job for type, anti-type. See Job 1:6-11, and Job 2:6.

The people of the prince destroying the city and temple most definitely is... about the Roman army under general Titus, as that is who historically destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D. But Titus nor the Romans fulfilled the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel, because it requires a standing temple. According the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), the temple burned down before the Romans could seize it.

The meaning of the Hebrew word for "prince" is a 'commander, civil or religious' (Strong's no. 5057). In the NIV, the word for "prince" is rendered as 'ruler' in the English. So that "prince" linked to the people who destroy is not... our Lord Jesus Christ.

The "he" pronoun in Dan.9:27 continues the subject of the false prince, or commander. It's not about Titus in Dan.9:27 but about the future Antichrist, or "vile person" of Dan.11 that makes a "league" with a "small people", establishing the "holy covenant" again with sacrifices (and a new temple), and then he ends the sacrifices in the middle of the "one wee" (70th week), and instead places the "abomination that maketh desolate", i.e, an idol, which is the "abomination of desolation" warning Jesus gave in Matthew 24 about the end.

Jesus had pronounced his jugdment on the Jews days before the cross,

Matthew 23:38, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."With Matthew 24:2, "Jesus said looking down on the Temple Mt. and said, "See you not all these things? verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Forty years later, both prophesies were fulfilled. 

There will be another destruction on the Temple Mount when Jesus returns at His future 2nd coming (Zech.14 when His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem; Rev.11 with the great earthquake and a tenth of the city falling.) As of right now, there are still... stones on top of another there; it's called the Dome of The Rock, an Islamic shrine.

Furthermore, the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel is not about a physical destruction of the temple. It is about the spiritual desolation of a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem with an idol abomination being setup in false worship. That is what Antiochus IV did in 165-170 B.C. Jerusalem.

You wrote, "Antiochus IV best fit the Dan.11 abomination of desolation prophecy, yet our Lord Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" about 200 years after Antiochus IV had been dead. That moved the Dan.11 "abomination of desolation" prophecy to the future." 

Phil replies, Antiochus did what he did in a temple that was already dead to God. the Holy of Holies was an empty room having no sacred vessels, no mercy seat, no ark of the covenant, nothing. The priests of the temple were appointed by men not God. So what did Antiochus desicrate? nothing but the floor. It's not the Temple that's sacred to God, it's the ground David purchased for the Lord on Mt. Moriah, it's the ground that's called the "Holy place" nothing else.

Antiochus Epiphanes placed an idol in the temple upon the altar in Hellenistic Zeus worship and sacrificed swine upon it. That is an abomination to God, and that was how the Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 170 B.C. was desolated.  See Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews (XII.5.4).

What stands today on Mt Morriah is the Dome of the Rock, a pagan temple, having idol worshippers who have taken Jesus glory and given it over to a false god called Allah. That's what's "standing" on God's Holy mountain, that's the abomination od desolation Daniel is speaking of.

Islam is a creation of the Holy Roman empire (Catholic church) who itself was a creation of secular Rome. So the 4th beast is still alive and kicking today!


Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have for the last couple of decades been gathering materials to build the 3rd temple in Jerusalem, and start up old covenant worship again. That has been one of their long-range plans ever since the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.


End Times Forum / Re: What peace treaty?
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 12:00:46 »
Jesus made no covenant for 7 years. He made an eternal covenant.

The Dan.9:27 prophecy involving Jesus ends with His crucifixion and is the 69th week. The final 70th week is still left unfulfilled today. The Dan.9:27 verse is about that final 70th week, not the previous sevens.

The Dan.11 Scripture about the "league" made is often left out by those who try to say all 70 weeks were completed back in history.

The Dan.11 Scripture continues the subject of Dan.9:27 about the one who comes to make a "league" in Jerusalem, with the "holy covenant" established, and then later his being against that "holy covenant", ending the daily sacrifices and placing the abomination that makes desolate.

Antiochus IV best fit the Dan.11 abomination of desolation prophecy, yet our Lord Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" about 200 years after Antiochus IV had been dead. That moved the Dan.11 "abomination of desolation" prophecy to the future.

Dan.11 reveals the re-establishing of the temple and old covenant sacrifices in Jerusalem. Then the 'vile person' will end the sacrifices and have an abomination idol setup instead.

End Times Forum / Re: Answer to 2300 days.
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 10:18:15 »
Once all of the Book of Daniel is studied, I don't see any great difficulty with understanding the 2300 day period.

Dan 8:11-14
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

One of the major matters in Dan.9:27 and Dan.11 is the ending of the daily sacrifices and placing of an idol abomination in the temple instead.

And since Antiochus IV did that in 170 B.C., but Jesus warned about it almost 200 years later, it means it's still a future event. The Romans didn't fulfill the abomination of desolation prophecy either, because the temple burned down before they could get possession of it in 70 A.D. And a standing Jewish temple is required to fulfill the Dan.11 abomination of desolation prophecy.

End Times Forum / Re: End Times Question
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 10:08:40 »
Pretty much right on.

There's some small matters he covered that needs clarification. The idea of the "holy covenant" in Dan.11 is not the "league" itself, but is the result of the "league" made. The "holy covenant" represents the re-established old covenant with a new temple and sacrifices again in Jerusalem by the orthodox Jews. Those who forsake that "holy covenant" are his allies against it, the "small people" he has dealings with mentioned earlier in Dan.11.

In Dan.2 about the beast statue, notice it shows 5 pieces 'together'... when the stone not made with hands (Jesus) comes to smite it upon its feet of ten toes, and the whole comes tumbling down. The feet of ten toes of clay mixed with iron represents the final one-world beast kingdom of Revelation 13. Because Dan.2 shows all the other pieces together on top, means the final beast kingdom will include all of those previous beast systems as one. And because the feet of mixed clay and iron is really weak, and the heaviest pieces are on top (gold being the heaviest), it reveals that final beast will be very top heavy, ready to fall.

There's at least two groups of orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today that I know of which have been preparing the materials to build a new temple for last couple of decades. At one time they even tried to place a cut cornerstone upon the Temple Mount (see Land of Israel and Temple Mount Faithful).

Hi All....
Does everyone know the next big event coming any day or year to our planet?
No, it's not Jesus coming back to reign for a thousand years.
It's the seven year peace plan.
You can lose your soul if you are deceived by the coming Antichrist.
Here is the best short video I have found explaining this end times prophecy in detail.
Have a great day!

End Times Forum / Re: The 666-YEAR-OLD SEA BEAST of Revelation 13
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 09:27:46 »
There are various traps designed by the doctrines of men, to deter us away from understanding that the 666 calculation is simply about the timing of Antichrist's appearing on earth.

Many will say, "How can it mean a time of the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th vial, when the seals happen first, then the trumpets, with the vials of God's wrath given last?" The reality is that our Lord Jesus only gave 7 main signs of the end in His Olivet discourse (Matt.24 & Mark 13). They are the seals, trumpets, and vials of His Revelation. And the very last sign He gave was that of His 2nd coming and gathering of His Church on the final day of this world (compare His coming and gathering of the saints in Matt.24 with Mark 13. They align with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about His bringing the asleep saints with Him when He comes, and the saints still alive on earth being gathered to Him at that timing also).

So how does the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial fit? In each section where the seals, trumpets, and vials were given, they each conclude with markers showing our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming.

In Rev.6 with the Seals, Jesus' appearing at His 2nd coming is shown by those who have fear seeing Him, and noting that right then His wrath has come, with every mountain and island moved out of its place (Rev.6:14-17). Those are signs of the final day of this world with Jesus' 2nd coming.

In Rev.11 with the trumpets, we are given details of events leading up to the 7th trumpet-3rd woe when all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Christ (Rev.11:13-18).

In Rev.16:15 on the 6th vial, our Lord Jesus is warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief", and keep our garments (promised white clothing) unless we appear naked and in shame (at His appearing). That shows that still on the 6th vial, His 2nd coming had not happened yet, but is getting ready to happen on the 7th vial. And on that 6th vial we are shown the unclean spirits out of the mouth of the dragon, showing Satan's deceptions of lies happening on that 6th vial. The 7th vial then is the battle of Armageddon, the final event of destruction on the "day of the Lord" that is to come "as a thief in the night".

There you have it. The true order of the seals, trumpets, and vials is that they overlap. One cannot simply read them sequentially how John wrote them down and expect that to be the exact same order the events occur. We must study all of God's Word to understand the proper order of the Revelation events. Even the Book of Isaiah includes a section of chapters scholars call 'the Apocalypse of Isaiah', because it parallels the signs of the last days leading up to the end of this world. How many brethren even know about that?

End Times Forum / Re: The 666-YEAR-OLD SEA BEAST of Revelation 13
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 09:05:22 »
The riddle of 666 at the end of Rev.13, which is actually about the "another beast", not the Sea Beast of Rev.13:1-2, is actually very simple. Those with doctrines that get away from this simplicity are designed to lead astray, because the whole matter for the end of days is about deception by the coming Antichrist ("another beast").

Starting at Rev.13:11 forward, we are told about a 2nd beast. And it is a man, because we are told he will have 2 symbolic horns 'like' a lamb, but will speak as a dragon. That is a very important symbolic analogy, because it's pointing to our Lord Jesus as that "lamb", but to Satan himself as that "dragon". The Message is, if you can receive it, the dragon will appear as a Lamb, but will be speaking lies to deceive. Being more literal, it means Satan coming as the Lamb to play our Lord Jesus.

Does God's Word warn us about this, ie., about the dragon (Satan) coming in the role of our Lord Jesus? Yes. In Matthew 24:23-26, our Lord Jesus warned that if someone comes up to you and says 'Lo, here is Christ, or there', to not believe it. He said a false-Messiah ("false Christs" in the Greek) will come working great signs and wonders that IF possible, would deceive even His very elect. Apostle Paul gave a similar warning in 2 Thess.2 about the great apostasy and the man of sin coming to sit in the temple of God (in Jerusalem), and play God.

So when you get down to the end of Revelation 13 about the calculating the number 666, its Message is actually about the timing at the end when that dragon will appear on earth, working great signs, wonders, and raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men. He comes on the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial. 666.

End Times Forum / Re: What happened to them?
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 08:53:36 »
When they came out of their graves, it means they were then resurrected. Nowhere does the Scripture say they continued to live among their brethren. It only declares they appeared to many. Like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 teaches, when our flesh body dies, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Our spirit is attached to our soul. Our spirit and soul can be detached from out flesh. This is why in 2 Cor.5 Paul taught that if our earthly house (flesh body) were dissolved, we have a building of God not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

In 1 Peter 3, and 1 Peter 4, Peter showed how Jesus at His resurrection went to the abode of the wicked dead in hell and preached to the 'spirits in prison". That was prophecy that He would do that, leading the prisoners out of the darkness of the heavenly prison per Isaiah 42:7. It's possible those who appeared in Jerusalem may have been some of those "spirits in prison" that Jesus preached The Gospel to, and they believed, and came out.

End Times Forum / Re: Compare two comings of Christ:
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 08:42:25 »
The "day of the Lord" is simply about events to occur on earth on the last day, that will end this present world.

It is the timing of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of His Church.

We know it will only occur on the very 'last' day of this world, because Apostle Peter showed that all of man's works are burned off the earth on that "day of the Lord" (2 Peter 3:10-12). There will be no more tribulation working nor reign by Satan's hosts when that "day of the Lord" occurs.

In 1 Thess.5, Apostle Paul also showed the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". That thief in the night idea is what our Lord Jesus used in His Olivet discourse when describing the surprise of His 2nd coming when it happens. He said if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he wouldn't allow his house to be broken up (i.e., broken into; see end of Matt.24). So our Lord Jesus' coming with the "thief in the night" idea is really from Him. In Revelation 16:15, on the 6th Vial, Jesus warns that He comes "as a thief".

Thus our Lord Jesus gave the timing of His 2nd coming to gather His Church with that "as a thief in the night" idea, and that also is the day when the "day of the Lord" events will transpire, and not before.

End Times Forum / Re: The New House of Israel
« on: Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 08:28:31 »
Another proof is when Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers in Romans 9.

God gave the prophecies in Hosea 1 to the house of Israel (ten tribes under Ephraim), and how they were no longer His people because of their rebelliousness. But in final He said the time would come when He would call them Ami, meaning My people. Paul was including believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus within that fold.

General Discussion Forum / Re: Questions for Post-Tribulationists.
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 15:40:52 »
I'll take on those questions, and a lot of them are redundant, obviously in order to appear like there's more questions than there really is.

"Question 1: Show me the rapture mentioned in Revelation 19:11-21 or Zechariah 14:1-5? It’s not there."

I don't use the word "rapture", neither does God's Word. Rapture comes from a Latin translation of the Greek word harpazo ("caught up" in the KJV). So from the start, dispel any and all "rapture" theory usages.

Revelation 19:2 Jesus has avenged His saints; Rev.19:7-9 the marriage of The Lamb, and those called to it, which per Matt.25 is when Jesus returns.

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

Parallel proof that the Mount of Olives is where Jesus will literally return to is in Acts 1, showing where He ascended to Heaven from, and the angels revealing that He would return in like manner.

"Question 2: Show me the church mentioned in one OT or NT passage discussing the tribulation?"


Matt 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus then explained to them what would befall His Church at the end of this world just prior to His return to gather them, since the very last sign He gave in that Olivet Discourse was the sign of His Second Coming.

In 2 Thess.2 Apostle Paul covered signs of the future tribulation at the end of this world. Apostle John was given the Revelation by Jesus, and it covers many signs of the very end of this world which parallel His Olivet Discourse signs? Ever read it???

"Question 3: How can the rapture and glorious appearing be on the same day when the rapture day is unknown and the glorious appearing day will be known? How can a day be both known and unknown?"

The misunderstanding is your own fault; trying to apply absolutism dating to an unknown day. If someone says, "on that day", it means a certain and specific day, but it doesn't define the exact date like October 22, 19.... Christ's return will be on a specific day, and hour, but like He said no man knows what 'date' that is. Yet He did... give His to know events leading up to that day, and that's for His that believe and watch, staying in His Word of Truth.

Question 4: The open door into heaven with a voice, trumpet, and catching up to heaven occurs in both Rev 4:1 and I Thess 4:16-18.Why do post-tribs reject this as the pre-trib. rapture? Open door Rev 19:11.

If one continues to read Rev.4:2, should notice that John said he was "in the spirit" when that happened. There's Old Testament examples of that also, like Isaiah 6. Ever read it? Or Ezekiel 8. Ever read it? If you had, you wouldn't have allow those without knowledge to misguide you to think Rev.4:1 is about a rapture. John's flesh body was simply in prison on Patmos while his spirit was shown the Revelation visions.

In Rev.19:11, Heaven is opening with Jesus Christ coming on His white horse, with a sword. No "rapture" idea there at all.

"Q5: If you accept the 2 witnesses are caught up to heaven in Rev 11:12 by ‘Come up hither’ why not rapture in 4:1?"

Because Rev.11:12 specifically is... about the final 7th Trumpet ("last trump") being changed and caught up to the Heavenly at the end of this world per Christ's Promises, while Rev.4:1 is about John being in prison on Patmos with God touching John's spirit to see visions. Same thing in Ezekiel 8 when Ezekiel was shown by God visions in the temple.

"Question 6: Show me the church on earth from Revelation 6-18? It is not there because it is in heaven."

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Where is it taught in the NT that Jesus will come "as a thief in the night"? By Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.5, right after he had mentioned being "caught up" by Jesus in 1 Thess.4. Jesus is speaking DIRECTLY TO HIS CHURCH ON THE 6TH VIAL timing. He is warning His Church that is ON EARTH, to keep their garments lest they walk naked and in shame. In Rev.3 Jesus spoke to the Church at Sardis about defiled garments.

So there you have it, Biblical proof... that Christ's Church is STILL... on this earth all the way through the 6th Vial.

"Question 7: If the church is not raptured until Rev 20:4, as post-tribulationists think, then how could the church be in heaven in Rev 19:7-11, before Christ’s glorious appearing?"

Even a true pre-tribber ought to be embarrassed to ask this question. Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 showed us clearly that when our Lord Jesus comes, He will bring the "asleep" saints WITH HIM...

1 Thess 4:14-15
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That means those who have already died in Christ, those Jesus will raise and bring with Him when He comes back to the Mount of Olives.

This shows how pre-trib confuses the "asleep" saints today with their false pre-trib rapture view.

"Question 8: Do you agree that the 24 elders in heaven represent the raptured church age Christians?
If no, then who are they and what proof do you have of their identity?
If yes, then will you accept the pre-tribulation rapture and reject the post-tribulation rapture as error?"

I don't use the word "rapture" since The Bible doesn't either. I use "caught up" from the KJV translation of Greek harpazo. The 24 elders of Rev.4 & 5 is a post-tribulation millennial VIEW. It's a future-forward VISION John was given. Not everything John was given by vision in Revelation was in the exact order it will occur. This also is how the Old Testament prophets are written. This is why men who devise theories like the pre-trib rapture theory (began in 1830 in Britain through John Darby) show they have MUCH lacking in Old Testament Book study, especially the prophets. Apostle Peter told us to be mindful also of what is written in the prophets (2 Pet.3:2).

"Question 9: Do you agree that the armies in fine linen accompanying Christ at His return are church age Christians? If no, then who are they and what proof do you have of their identity?"

I agree they are all... believers and followers of Jesus Christ. If you left out Abraham then you'd be denying the first origins of faith on God's Promised Salvation by Faith (Galatians 3). The phrase "church age", how it's used today can be a trap into all sorts of non-Biblical doctrines of men.

"Question 10: Who are you looking for, Christ or antichrist? Why would Christ want His bride to look for the antichrist?"
Those who remain faithful to the end, waiting on Christ Jesus to return like the prophecy states, look for the coming Antichrist who will come first and cause great tribulation upon the saints still alive on earth, and then we look for Jesus Christ to return and defeat the Antichrist and gather us to Him and the asleep saints He brings with Him, which will end the tribulation. To refuse the warnings our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave His Church today about the coming Antichrist is a sign of rebellion against Christ Jesus, and thus that rebellious one will not remain a "chaste virgin" to Jesus when He comes later.

"Question 11: How will the tribulation sufferings comfort us? Post-tribulationists can’t explain this."

No suffering comforts us. The Holy Spirit Comforter Jesus sent comforts us. Our Lord Jesus' grace and forgiveness when we sin and repent comforts us, for all men fall short of the glory of God. So your idea is kind of... sick, as you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with a very un-Biblical analogy.

"Question 12: Does the Philadelphian church represent the faithful church at the end of the church age?
Do you believe that God will keep this church out of the time of the tribulation coming on all the world?"

Only 2 Churches in Rev.3 & 4 our Lord Jesus had no problems with, Smyrna and Philadelphia. They represent His elect saints. And what did He warn His very elect saints about in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24:23-26, which is about the time of great tribulation? Why would Jesus warn His very elect of that for that tribulation timing if they are to be raptured like the false pre-trib rapture theory of man proposes? Simply because the pre-trib rapture theory is false, a doctrine of men.

"Question 13: Since Jesus returns to earth from a wedding, doesn’t this prove the church is in heaven before the glorious appearing? Can you see that this disproves the post-tribulation rapture? Why is the church in heaven (19:7) if the church is raptured after Jesus returns to earth as post-trib claims?

You obviously cannot read. Rev.19:2, He has already... judged the whore. Rev.19 is about Christ's second coming to judge the whore. Rev.19:7-14 are about the armies of the "asleep" saints Paul said Jesus will bring with Him when He comes!

Have your pre-trib teachers not taken time to explain to you that 1 Thess.4 is covering TWO GROUPS of saints, and not just one??? The first group are the saints that "sleep" in Jesus that have already died. The 2nd group are the alive saints on earth that are "caught up" to Jesus AND THEM, when He comes! The only saints who are to be "caught up" are the ALIVE saints on earth when Jesus returns to end the tribulation!

What they refuse to teach you is how THAT 1 Thess.4 scripture by Apostle Paul is showing that time of the alive saints on earth being "caught up" is the SAME... timing of the future resurrection of the saints.

"Question 14: Who is the Restrainer? If he is the Holy Spirit’s influence in the church, then doesn’t this prove the rapture comes before antichrist is revealed and before the tribulation as II Thess. 2:6-8 states?"

The one who holds of 2 Thess.2 that Paul mentioned is in Daniel 10. It is NOT... The Holy Spirit. You are presenting just another false doctrine of men, and idea from hirelings that don't understand The Word of God.

2 Thess.2 is specific... that the Antichrist will come first to cause a great apostacy, and then Jesus will come to destroy him with the brightness of His coming. THAT... is when the Antichrist will be 'revealed' to the deceived. When Antichrist first shows up THAT... is when he will be 'revealed' to Christ's elect and not the deceived. Those deceived will not know who that Antichrist really will be until Jesus returns, and thus their shame for flying away to that false one who comes first. That is exactly what pre-trib rapture theory is for, to deceive as many as will listen to men, instead of God through His Son by His Word of Truth.

"Question 15: Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and not take us there at the rapture (as post-tribulation rapture people think)?"

This so simple, if people would only read what our Lord Jesus said in John 14, even this:

John 14:3
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where is our Lord Jesus coming to per Scripture at His 2nd coming? To the Mount of Olives (Acts 1; Zechariah 14). That is where He is indirectly referring to. So what did the Old Testament prophets reveal about that? They revealed there will be a sanctuary complex built by Jesus there in Jerusalem (Zechariah and Ezekiel). That complex will contain 'abodes' for the priests. And that's actually what the word "mansions" in John 14 means, abodes. On earth is where the prophets show that will take place.

"Question 16: What is the purpose of the rapture if it occurs at the end of the tribulation? No purpose!"

That shows how in love one can be with a doctrine of man. Apostle Paul compared that kind of deception to men's doctrines as being spiritually "drunken" (1 Thess.5). The "caught up" idea of 1 Thess.4 is only about the saints still alive on earth to the very LAST DAY of this present world:

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The resurrection of the saints AND the "caught up" event occur BOTH ON THE SAME DAY, THE LAST DAY. The last day means the END of this present world, i.e., NO MORE WICKED REIGNING ON EARTH!

"Question 17: Who resurrects and gathers the church at the rapture, Christ or angels? Christ! Then how can Matthew 24:31 refer to the rapture if angels gather the elect of Israel here?"

Here you've made the same mistake again. You agree the resurrection of the "caught up" event both happen at the same time by that. But when does Scripture show the resurrection happens??? On the LAST DAY... which Jesus showed in the above Scripture I quoted from John 6:40. You can also find it in John 6:39; John 6:44; John 6:54; John 11:24; and John 12:48 reveals the wicked being judged on that same "last day".

Shall I keep going???

Theology Forum / Re: Hosea 1:2
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 13:24:13 »

Rebellious Israel at that time would not notice any difference in behavior if Hosea had taken a virgin wife. God wanted the people to see Hosea take a prostitute for a wife so they would question it.

1. Does this mean Gomer was a prostitute herself?

2. Or does it mean she came from one of the 10 Northern tribes who went whoring after other gods, therefore she herself was worshipping other gods, as in, making drink and cake offerings to the queen of heaven or the gods of the holls or groves?

3. Or both?


Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 13:19:04 »
Then are we as believers on the Blood of Jesus Christ been absolutely perfect... in our walk since we have believed on Him and been baptized???

1 John 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 13:13:43 »
Galatians 3:23-27 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. [24] So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. [25] Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. [26] So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, [27] for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

But continue to Galatians 5 and note what Paul says to us...

Gal 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Theology Forum / Re: Christ: antichrist: singular or plural
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 13:04:26 »
We were given 3 major parallels in the NT about this final coming false-messiah at the end of the world, and the signs given to mark his difference as 'The Antichrist' from the idea of the "many antichrists".

Two antichrist concepts per the NT:

1 John 2:18 is indeed covering both a singular "antichrist", and plural "many antichrists". In Revelation 13 with the "another beast" which is to work great signs and wonders in the sight of men.

Jesus revealed this too in Matthew 24, with the 'many' who would come in His Name of Matt.24:4-5, and then the singular "false Christs" (Greek pseudochristos) of Matt.24:23-26, which context is singular, and who is to work great signs and wonders, that if possible, would deceive even Christ's own elect.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul revealed the coming of a singular false Christ to sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem (prophecy of a final rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the tribulation). And how he will work great signs and wonders, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is even called... God, or that is worshiped.

In ALL 3 of these examples, the singular Antichrist is prophesied to almost be able to fool even Christ's elect into worshiping him in place of God, because of the signs and wonders that Antichrist will be able to work in the sight of men, which is also shown us by John in the Revelation 13 Scripture. Have the "many antichrists" been able to work that level and power of deception upon the whole world? No. Has a pope ever sat in Jerusalem and played Christ? No. What about Mooney? or any other flesh man that has come claiming to be Christ in the last 2,000 years? Nope, none of them worked the great signs and wonders while sitting in God's temple in Jerusalem while imitating Jesus Christ.

So the future prophecy of a coming Antichrist that Jesus and His Apostles warned us about is still yet to occur, and MUST be fulfilled according to the signs He and His Apostles gave us, in Jerusalem. This also is how the early 1st and 2nd century Church fathers believed about the coming false one at the end of this world.

If one will notice, the majority of teaching in men's traditions today is far... away from this understanding. It's almost as if they are willingly... try to hide this Biblical revelation directly from God's Word.

Theology Forum / Re: Symbols in Matthew 24 & Luke 21
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 12:35:34 »
It seems to me that Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24 is what has become known as a double or duel prophecy.  Matthew 24 prophesies both the destruction of the temple and the second coming of Jesus Christ.  Such duel prophecy has been described as looking at two mountains one right behind the other; the second being obscured by the first. Once having climbed to the top of the first, it becomes apparent that there is the second one behind the first.   I think that many of the OT prophecies exhibit this same duel subject essence.

Bang! Pretty much on the nail.

Many brethren forget disciplined Bible study in the Old Testament Books which point to this kind of dual-blueprint prophecy idea. In the Daniel prophecy about the false one coming to Jerusalem, that was almost fulfilled to a tee by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165-170 B.C. In Jesus' Olivet Discourse He brings up that prophecy from Daniel when pointing to a future fulfillment of the coming Antichrist, so He could not have been talking of Antiochus since Antiochus had already been dead for 200 or so years by then.

A parallel study in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 with the seals of Revelation 6 reveals 7 main signs of the end of this world that our Lord Jesus was giving His disciples, and us, in order to be watching for His second coming and our deliverance.

Theology Forum / Re: Witch of Endor
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 12:25:05 »

The devil did know what was going to happen to Saul. He knew that the Lord had already abandoned him, and that he had now compounded his guilt and abandonment by seeking the guidance of the dead, which the Lord had forbidden Israel to do. Not a very hard call to make.

Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 12:17:11 »
You actually proved that God's laws still exist by your statement below (underlined). And it still can... affect those of us who have believed on Jesus Christ IF... we do the works of the flesh, as Apostle Paul warned in Galatians 5.

Here, Paul sums up a lot of the still existing laws from the Old Testament that still apply today:

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

In Romans 7, Paul showed us how we believers on Jesus can still commit sin because of our flesh. He showed we will be subject to sin as long as we are not dead. We all fall short of the glory of God and have sin. The difference between us and the ungodly sinner is that we are supposed to be trying to not sin, and repent to our Lord Jesus when we do, asking forgiveness. To wrongly assume we can no longer commit a sin after having believed on Jesus Christ is a doctrine of men and is un-Biblical.

Bornofgod, evidently you didn't read any of the responses to the OP. No one today - except for those who have not come to God in Christ - are under the old covenant law today. That is a Scriptural fact.


Theology Forum / Re: Witch of Endor
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 12:02:46 »
The main clue is that the witch had a familiar spirit, or like a lying spirit if you will (1 King 22:22). The prophet Samuel was not actually 'conjured' up. It was a lying spirit that was conjured up which only gave Saul the appearance of Samuel. And Saul believed it was Samuel though it was not. And just because it was a lying spirit, or familiar spirit of the witch, that does not mean it cannot tell truths. As a matter of fact, telling half truths (a lie mixed in with truth) is especially how the devil operates (Mark 4).

A more modern example was Edgar Cayce, called the "sleeping prophet." He would place himself in a hypnotic state and give a diagnosis to patients. Reincarnation was a common subject he would mention while under. He also made prophecies that came true, and also gave medicinal advice that modern science only learned of later. All the work of a familiar spirit that Cayce had.

End Times Forum / Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« on: Sat Nov 25, 2017 - 11:39:45 »
The future thousand years of Revelation 20 is a prophecy still future to us today, and will begin when Jesus Christ returns to this earth to reign on David's throne, on earth, as promised. Our Lord Jesus is presently sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven. David's throne is, and has always been an earthly throne.

Many key events about this future thousand years period are outlined in God's Word and are simple to understand. The last 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel are all about that future 1,000 years period and parallels events given in Revelation involving God's River of the waters of life, and the tree of life. Even in Revelation 22:14-15 Jesus showed us the wicked will still exist in that time, but will be outside the gates of the holy city, but the righteous will have right to the tree of life.

End Times Forum / Re: Jesus' Olivet Discourse Not History
« on: Sat Mar 11, 2017 - 17:20:10 »
For brethren who struggle with the Revelation Seals, Trumpets, and Vials...

In Jesus' Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, He gave only 7 main Signs to occur at the end of this world leading up to His 2nd coming. What I wrote in the previous post verifies that those 7 Signs are the same events of the Seals of Revelation 6, even with Jesus giving those 7 Signs in the order that Revelation 6 was given to John to write down.

Those 7 Signs are also the 7 Trumpet events, and the 7 Vial events also. There are only 7 Signs in Revelation too, the difference being there 3 different sets of descriptions for those same 7 Signs our Lord Jesus gave us for the end. The way you discover this is by understanding the actual 'events' given on each Seal, Trumpet, and Vial.

This is why on the 6th Seal of Revelation 6 we are shown events of the angels being cast down to earth ("stars", linked to the events of Rev.12:7 forward), and then after that those on earth wanting to hide from our Lord Jesus at His coming, which is a 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial event.

End Times Forum / Jesus' Olivet Discourse Not History
« on: Sat Mar 11, 2017 - 17:09:05 »
I think it only fair to post this in a new topic, since others here have begun a new topic just for rebuttal that does not point to the original location of this post:

Here is my understanding of Matthew 24, also called our Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse. It is given in 3 parts, Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, as all 3 must be considered. It is linked to the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation and where Apostle Paul warned brethren about the events to come at the end of this world.

Matt 24:1-3
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

They sat on the mount of Olives which overlooks the temple mount. His disciples remark about the temple buildings on it and Jesus warns the day is coming when there won't be one stone on top of another standing there. Even today, there are still huge stones standing on top of another there, called the Wailing Wall. The orthodox Jews pray before it daily. The wall was part of the support for the temple mount complex. The Romans in 69 A.D. destroyed the city and the temple buildings, but not that Wailing Wall.


Therefore, the prophecy our Lord Jesus said for Jerusalem of not one stone standing upon another is not yet complete today. It is a type of dual-fulfillment prophecy, similar to the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in Daniel 11, which historically one can easily compare to what Antiochus IV did in 170-165 B.C. Jerusalem, having almost fulfilled Dan.11 to a tee.

Matt.24:3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Then His disciples asked Him 'when' that would occur, and what would be the sign of His 2nd coming.

Some abuse that phrase "the end of the world", solely trying to key on the Greek word for "world", which is Greek aion, meaning age. We know Jesus was speaking of the literal end of this world when His 2nd coming will happen. In Matthew 13:39-43 He used the same idea of the end of the world (aion) when He spoke of the Harvest at the end of this world. So we can be sure Matt.24:3 is also speaking of the literal end of this world, especially since they asked Him about the time of His 2nd coming, which the Christian Church for over 2,000 years has agreed will occur on the very last day of this present world as written (here at Matt.24:29-31 for one example).

In the next Matthew 24 verses Jesus gives seven main signs for the very end of this world leading up to His 2nd coming. They parallel the events of the Seals of Revelation 6. I will draw that parallel here to include Mark 13.

1st SIGN:

Matt 24:4-8
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.

That is our Lord Jesus' very first warning, and sign, i.e., deception by some man proclaiming that He has come (same as in Mark 13:5 and Luke 21:8).

The Revelation 6:1-2 Seal of the rider on the white horse is the parallel. In Revelation 6:1 we are not told which Seal that is; it is assumed to be the first Seal. The rider wields a bow of cheap fabric per the Greek, and he has a victory wreath as a crown upon his head. Per Revelation 19, our Lord Jesus returns upon a white horse, and wields a sword that cuts both ways, and on His head are many crowns. We are to contrast these two descriptions and realize this one in Revelation 6:1-2 is the cheap 'knock off', i.e., the "another Jesus" Paul hinted at in 2 Corinthians 11.

If you are not aware there is a fake Jesus coming first at the end of this world, before the true 2nd coming of our Lord Jesus, then you are way behind in Bible prophecy for the end of this world, for that is what this contrast here is about between Rev.6:1-2 and Rev.19.

5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.

This is part of the 1st Seal also, and is the idea of another trying to deceive others into believing they are our Lord Jesus. With this warning our Lord Jesus is warning of "many" trying to play Him. But in Matthew 24:23-26 He is speaking of a singular coming false one that could, if it were possible, deceive even His very elect servants.

2nd SIGN:

Matt.24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Our Lord Jesus then warned about hearing of wars and rumours of wars, but what did He prescribe? He said don't be troubled at that, for that must happen, but the end is not... yet, meaning what? Many preachers I've heard simply leave that last phrase out of, "but the end is not yet".

The idea is that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of wars, the very end of this world is not yet. What kind of time then is the opposite... of wars and rumors of wars? The opposite is a time of world peace. These seven signs our Lord Jesus is giving here in Matthew 24 are for the very end of this world, which will be a time of world peace. This is also what Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 5 when he said that when they shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. So our Lord Jesus gave us a major sign with this Matt.24:6 verse, because when the time of world peace comes with all wars and rumors of wars having stopped, then you know His enemy has finally taken complete control over the whole earth, something we still have yet to see in our time.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

This Matt.24:7 verse goes with the previous 6th verse about wars and rumors of wars. They both parallel the 2nd Seal of Revelation 6:3-4 about the one on the red horse, a war horse. These events for the end are only the beginning of sorrows. They are not the time of the actual "great tribulation" which Jesus warns of later here.

These events of wars and famines, earthquakes, pestilences in Matthew 24:6 & 7 actually are covered in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Seals of Revelation 6:

Rev 6:3-8
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matt.24:6, Mark 13:7, Luke 21:9, and the above already covered the red war horse and wars and rumors of wars events.

3rd SIGN:

Rev.6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

The 3rd Seal is about a time of famine, which parallels the events of Matt.24:7 famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, etc. A measure of wheat for a penny is equivalent to working all day just to buy a loaf of bread. That's what the balances here is about. But notice it says to not hurt the oil and the wine? What are those symbols for in God's Word? The wine is a symbol for God's Truth, and the oil is a symbol for The Holy Spirit. God's Message in that is that He will not let His Truth wain for His servants during that time, nor will The Holy Spirit leave us in that time.

4th SIGN:

Rev.6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

This also is part of that time of the beginning of sorrows per Matt.24:6 through 8. "Death" is the name of the rider on this pale horse. Who would have a proper name like "Death"? Satan of course, the one to whom the power of death has been assigned. "Hell" follows with him. And power is given to "them" over the fourth part of the earth to kill with 1) sword, 2) hunger, 3) with death, 4) with the beasts of the earth.

Remember, Jesus has not warned of the "great tribulation" just yet here. He has only warned of the "beginning of sorrows". These events so far have been happening in our generation today. They really picked up in the 19th & 20th centuries, especially when Israel became a nation again in 1948. We have not reached that event when we no longer hear of wars and rumors of wars though, which will be a time of 'world peace'.

What movements exist today that want world peace? One of the largest factions is the United Nations organization, which is actually the reason they claim for their existence. World Communism also has claims to world peace when their so-called 'Revolution' is finally over. We can hear the same rhetoric from world Socialists, both Eastern and Western Socialists. So the Bible student should not be ignorant of these world movements, because they will set the stage for the very end of this world when they shall proclaim Paul's time of "Peace and safety" (1 Thess.5:3).

In that same respect, these 4 things on the 4th Seal that Satan and his servants are given to kill with involve the apparatus used by the movers and shakers of the world peace movement. Their powers are divided up into 4 main categories: 1) sword = military, 2) hunger = world commerce (the balances, remember?), 3) with death = religion (spiritual death which is worse than flesh death), 4) beasts of the earth = not literal animals, but by the "brute beasts" Peter warned of, the children of darkness, the devil's own servants that hide behind the scenes and create havoc.

5th SIGN:

Matt 24:9-14
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

All these Matt.24:9-14 events are tied to the Revelation 6:9-11 verses about the 5th Seal when many of Christ's servants will be delivered up to be killed as the slaughtered servants were in past history. This will begin when the NWO system finally comes to complete power and the deceived proclaim "Peace and safety".

This "witness" is the "testimony" of Rev.6:9 they give to all nations with The Holy Spirit speaking through them by the cloven tongue, the same cloven tongue that was manifest on Pentecost in Acts 2. Peter quoted from Joel 2 about it, and Joel 2 is about events for the very end of this world just prior to the day of The LORD (i.e., Christ'
s 2nd coming). In Matthew 10, Jesus tells His on that day to not premeditate what they will speak, but to speak whatever The Holy Spirit gives them to speak. This Testimony for Christ will be heralded to all nations at the end of this world during this time of being delivered up. Every brother and sister in Christ Jesus should be aware of this.

6th SIGN:

Matt 24:15-22
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

When the "abomination of desolation" is setup in Jerusalem for the end, that is what events these verses are about, and is the actual start of the "great tribulation" events. Why not the previous events also?

It's because the worst thing that can happen in that time is not... flesh death, but spiritual death. And the way spiritual death will come is by deception in that time to a false one, thinking that false one is our Lord Jesus when it will not be. That is why our Lord Jesus' very 1st Sign here was to not allow any man to deceive us, and the 1st Seal was about a fake Christ riding on a white horse like how our Lord Jesus returns.

This is the time when Archangel Michael will make a 'stand' in Heaven and war against Satan and his angels as per Revelation 12:7 forward, and they are then cast out of Heaven down to this earth, de facto, here in person, and go to persecute Christ's Church who keep God's commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This event in bold is about Satan and his angels being cast down to this earth at the very end of this world to begin the time of "great tribulation". In Daniel 7 thru 11 we are told the end of this world will involve a symbolic period of "one week" equaling 7 years, and in the middle of that 7 years the "vile person" or "little horn" will end the daily sacrifices and instead place an idol abomination in the holy place at Jerusalem. That is what our Lord Jesus is warning of here in Matthew 24 at this point.

The 6th Seal about stars falling to earth as a fig tree that casts her untimely figs is about the idea of a winter fig. In fig horticulture the winter fig grows in winter but fall off in the spring. It represents the fake and not the true. Here it parallels the appearance of the Antichrist in Jerusalem for the end of this world and his placing of an abomination idol in the holy place at Jerusalem. At then end of Rev.13 it's called the "image of the beast" which all will be commanded to bow in false worship to.

Thus the pseudo-Christ, which Jesus is getting ready to mention in the next Matthew 24 verses, is coming on the 6th Seal.

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.

Many preachers fail to notice that section of Matt.24 Scripture is about a singular false one, not the many who say they are Christ back in the 5th verse. The KJV phrase "false Christs" is actually the Greek word pseudochristos which means 'a pseudo-Christ' or a fake Christ. Our Lord Jesus is talking about the "vile person" of Daniel 11 here, the one who causes the "abomination of desolation" idol to be setup in Jerusalem. That's why this same description of one who is to come working those "great signs and wonders" is also shown in 2 Thessalonians 2 by Paul, and in Revelation 13:11 forward through Apostle John.

7th SIGN:

Matt 24:27-36
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Just as we can see lightning shine from east to west, that is how obvious to all on earth our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming will be. No one will have to come up to you and say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there". All nations on earth will see His coming in the clouds.

This example of the gathering of His saints is about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints in heaven that had already died. In the Mark 13 example He shows the gathering of His saints that will be still alive on earth. So His Olivet discourse follows exactly what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the events of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of His Church of asleep saints, and His Church still alive on earth at His return.

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

The wicked on earth definitely will not see Christ nor our Heavenly Father in Heaven until the veil of flesh is removed from off all men on the last day of this world by God's consuming fire. That is when these above Rev.6 verse will occur, and is why those will wish for the mountains and rocks to fall upon them because of Christ suddenly appearing in the clouds at His return.

So there it is, the SEVEN SIGNS of the END that Jesus gave His servants to be watching leading up to His 2nd coming. They are a direct parallel to the Seals of Revelation 6, showing further that He was teaching His disciples and US, about the events for the end of this world leading up to His 2nd coming.

End Times Forum / Re: The Plan For A New Jerusalem Temple
« on: Sat Mar 11, 2017 - 16:58:37 »
To sincere brethren in Christ, nor would I recommend listening to the nut cases who claim those who disagree with their false Preterist theories are on some agenda to help the Jews and deny Jesus.

These kind of people are not interested in the Truth, otherwise they would be given to understand Old Testament prophecy linked to the prophecies our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us for the very end of this world, like our Lord Jesus' 7 signs of the very end of this world He gave in His Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 in relation to His Revelation through John.

End Times Forum / Re: Gog & Magog
« on: Mon Mar 06, 2017 - 13:33:16 »
In response to RB's post:

1. Yes, given in 3 main parts, Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, because all 3 of those Bible chapters directly parallel each other. So naturally that can mean they each contain some different things between them also. Don't strain at a gnat to find fault. Keep it simple.

2. You said nothing about its link to Revelation that I also mentioned.

3. You are adding falseness to what our Lord Jesus said with quoting from the Book of Daniel about the "abomination of desolation". It is ignorance to assume someone quoting a source means you don't have to read it to know the subject. You do have to have read it, or go and read it if you haven't yet. It's as simple as that.

What you've been taught to do is to deny... what the Book of Daniel shows about the "abomination of desolation" involving the placing of an idol abomination in the temple at Jerusalem, just so you can keep your traditions of men that say the falsehood that it's about destruction of the temple in 69 A.D.

4. Of course Jesus and Paul were speaking of the same event in Matt.24 and 2 Thess.2 about the coming Antichrist and desolation of a 'standing' Jewish temple in Jerusalem. It's for the end of this world, and Christ's Book of Revelation also covers it.

In 69 A.D., the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and when trying to seize control of the temple it burned down. They were not able to go inside the temple and spiritually desolate it with the placing of an idol abomination and commanding the Jews to worship it, which is what the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is about.

5. Jesus' condemnation of Jerusalem that it would be destroyed happened in 69 A.D. by the Romans. The city and its temple were destroyed... EXCEPT for those HUGE STONES STILL STANDING ON TOP OF ANOTHER at the temple mount! (Ah... you left that out, didn't you?!).

6. Your remarks suggesting the facts of history is not something we should listen to is ludicrous. God provides us with the facts of history that helps confirm... His Word of Truth. Simply throwing facts of history out the window in order to push a FALSE DOCTRINE is even more ludicrous, and even downright of the devil.

The Jewish historian Josephus is hated by the orthodox JEW, not the Christian scholar. So you might ought to think about who you're choosing to align with on those things.

Without the facts of history you can NEVER bring up the Roman's destruction of Jerusalem in 69 A.D., that's how ignorant your point is on this matter that history is against Bible Scripture.

7. There's that famous quote from 2 Peter 1:20 many like to use to try... and enforce their position, when their position is especially sitting on top of loose sand! No, no, no, you cannot bring up 70 A.D. and the Romans, because that SECULAR history, remember? Per your previous tirade against historical fact and secularism, you cannot even go to Jerusalem today and declare how Jerusalem has been amazingly built again, and how those stones at the temple mount wall are still standing. That would be reporting secular facts, and not Bible Scripture.

The Biblical facts are, like with Revelation 11, Jerusalem is a city again for the end, and it reveals another standing Jewish temple there which those in Rev.11:1-2 are worshiping therein, and the Gentiles are given to tread the city for 42 months. And God's two witnesses are to appear there and prophesy for 1260 days and then be killed with their dead bodies left in the street for 3.5 days, and then they ARISE to the shock of all that see it! You gonna' try and say all that happened in 69 A.D. with the Romans? Of course that would be lie if you did say it.

8. Your trying to bring up Romans 9 with OT vs NT comparisons is off topic, because what the orthodox Jews believe and what we as Christian believers is two different things, even according... to God's Word. Romans 11 is where you should have concentrated on if you wanted to bring up such subjects, because that is where Paul show God put blindness upon Israel in part that makes them enemies of The Gospel, and that is how it will be until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. So it sounds like you're the one who needs lessons on what all Paul was teaching in the Book of Romans.

9. Your metaphorical destruction of Jerusalem at Jesus' cross is ludicrous also, just more ignorant traditions of men by those not given to understand many things in God's Word. Those you listen to can't really teach beyond the basic Gospel, so they have to make things up when they get into sections of Bible prophecy and Bible history. Sad, very sad.

You cannot... omit Revelation 11:1-2, nor Ezekiel 40 thru 47 about that future temple, just because our Lord Jesus proclaimed Jerusalem would be destroyed at one point in history. Go to Google maps and look up the city of Jerusalem today, and try and tell me it's not there any more. Also try to tell me there is no type of religious structure upon the temple mount, like the Dome of the Rock. (No, it's not a Jewish temple that is going to be rebuilt there).

You should also try studying Jeremiah 24 and 1 Kings 11 about God's promise to David, and to Jerusalem, and to Judah involving Jerusalem. Oh... and Israel became a nation again in 1948 by U.N. Charter vote. The U.S. voted 'for' it. So your traditions of men are way... behind reality.

End Times Forum / Re: The Plan For A New Jerusalem Temple
« on: Mon Mar 06, 2017 - 12:44:04 »
Brethren, don't listen to those who claim things like the mere existence of another Jewish temple in Jerusalem today would be the "abomination of desolation" of the Book of Daniel. Those are doctrines of men and they don't have a clue as to what the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is about.

Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

That specific underlined Scripture is what the "abomination of desolation" is about that our Lord Jesus warned of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. It requires a standing... Jewish temple in Jerusalem for it to be fulfilled. It involves SPIRITUAL desolation by the placing of an idol abomination in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem that the Jews will build for the end of this world.

This "vile person" in that Daniel 11 chapter that causes the placing of that abomination idol represents the coming Antichrist our Lord Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24:23-26, and through John in Revelation 13.

Per history (see the Jewish historian Josephus), in 170-165 B.C., Antiochus IV seized Jerusalem with an army, went inside the Jewish temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar and spread its broth inside the temple. Then he placed an idol abomination in the temple to pagan Zeus worship and commanded all to bow in worship to it. But our Lord Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" about 200 years later in His Olivet discourse, which means for us to look for another at the end of this world.

You will notice those who think the "abomination of desolation" means a destruction of the temple in 69 A.D. by the Romans simply slide right over these facts of history about Antiochus IV, and that Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" long after Antiochus IV had been dead. They do the same with that Daniel 11 evidence of what the "abomination of desolation" is actually about, i.e., the placing of an idol abomination inside a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

End Times Forum / Re: A Warning To America
« on: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 12:54:11 »
When the pseudo-Christ appears in Jerusalem, then something more dangerous than what Ruth Graham says is going to happen to every living soul on earth that's about to make a choice as to who and what they worship.

Because some... of us believers on Christ will refuse to bow in worship to the coming pseudo-Christ and his image, because we know who he really will be, that will be enough for others to have us delivered up to councils and the synagogue of Satan. Yet Jesus said those who lose their life for His sake and the Gospel's will save it, and those who seek to save their life will lose it (Mark 8:35).

End Times Forum / Re: The Plan For A New Jerusalem Temple
« on: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 12:39:40 »
The teaching that the "man of sin" (the Antichrist) of 2 Thess.2 is already... sitting in the "temple of God" today is a false... teaching. It is an idea completely OUT OF THE BIBLICAL CONTEXT of 2 Thessalonians 2, and is a doctrine of men.

Apostle Paul's phrase, "the temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:4 is NOT... about Christ's spiritual temple in Heaven. The spiritual temple of Ephesians 2 is based on the foundation of the prophets and Apostles, and our Lord Jesus as The Chief Cornerstone. It is impossible... for them to be corrupted by the Antichrist. Anyone saying it is possible is directly implying that we have no Salvation in Christ Jesus and is a liar.

The crept in unawares of Jude 1 have crept into many Christian pulpits today, and at times preach obvious blasphemy that only a true Bible student of The Holy Spirit would recognize. But recognizing this matter is easy, as all one need do is simply read what Christ's Apostles wrote about the spiritual temple idea and know that it cannot ever be corrupted by the devil nor any of his servants.

The "temple of God" that the "man of sin" will come to sit in per Apostle Paul is about a literal physical Jewish temple in Jerusalem. It is the "holy place" our Lord Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24 when warning about the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel. Per Daniel 8 & 11, for the "abomination of desolation" to happen it requires a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Antiochus IV is the blueprint for it, as he almost fulfilled it back in history).

In the Book of Daniel, the "little horn" is to exalt himself above God and speak blasphemies against Heaven. In Revelation 13 we are shown the "dragon" doing the same thing, and the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself per Rev.12:9.

End Times Forum / Re: Are The End Times Meeting Your Expectations?
« on: Sun Mar 05, 2017 - 03:39:30 »
“However, chapter 12 of 2 Ezra is now pending the execution there of.”

There are some other prophecies that have also been fulfilled such as,

Acts 2:17
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.”

Not fulfilled yet. See Matthew 10 and Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation 6:9-11.

Peter quoted from Joel 2 in Acts 2. Go study the Joel 2 prophecy more, because it is about the tribulation timing. The main purpose for the manifesting of the cloven tongue will be for the very end during the tribulation, when some of us will be delivered up, and we will be given to speak by The Holy Spirit. Jesus said to not premeditate what we will say in that "hour", because it won't be us speaking, but The Holy Spirit. All nations will hear it, and it will convict them. Jesus said even the gainsayer won't be able to resist what is said in that hour.

Daniel 8:23 “in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.”

Daniel 11:21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Daniel 7:25
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time
(he hasn’t completed the 3 ½ years yet though)

This one I think will be fulfilled within the next two months. Probably by the end of March though.
Daniel 9:27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [seven years] In the middle of the 'seven' [3 ½ years] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

All of those Daniel Scriptures have yet to be fulfilled. One Antiochus IV in 170-165 B.C. almost fulfilled it by seizing Jerusalem, and going inside the temple and sacrificing swine on the altar and spreading its broth inside the temple. And then he placed an idol abomination in Zeus worship in that temple demanding all to bow to it. Yet Antiochus was already dead when our Lord Jesus warned about the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem from the Book of Daniel. Wait for another in our near future to fulfill it, i.e., the coming Antichrist that will appear in Jerusalem.

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