So, you were taught and convinced, and so believe that men all are apes. I have no problem with that, as that is your honest conviction. Though I would have to say I don't have the same conviction as you do. My conviction is that, men were not created by God by evolution, but were created as scriptures taught. That the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. So that's how God created Adam, the first creature of the humankind. Now Eve, the second to be created of the humankind, the Lord God created by taking a rib from Adam, and which He made into a woman. And from the written scriptures, the implication is that both Adam and Eve were created, not as babes, but as adults. And from their union as husband and wife, so came the generation of mankind. And so, we have different convictions.
With regards the creation of man which you believe is by evolution, what can you say of this scriptures?
Luke 3:8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Does that not give you the idea that God can create something which is initially to be of age, that which when science examines it, finds it to have been created at a time much earlier time than when it was actually created? That God can create something, which you believe was created by evolution, in its 'evolved state' as we have it today?And I am thinking, if God can create like so, how can we be certain that God did not create creation like so? If this cannot be ascertained, will that not make what science have come up with, as all to be based on assumptions? I don't know how or if science can, but I think that science have to first ascertain that what God have created in the beginning, whether all were initially of 'zero' age at the instant of creation.
With regards your conviction, what can you say of Jesus? I assume that you believe that he is a human. Was he an ape, since he was a human and since humans are apes? Or do you not consider him to be so for some reason, perhaps since he was born supernaturally?
These are just some of the questions that come to my mind if I were to consider your convictions. And these questions also goes to those who have the same or similar conviction as Barbarian with regards creation by evolution.
I do not know if evolution is true. I believe it could be true. I find it to be a reasonable theory. However, I've not yet been convinced by the supposed overwhelming evidence that many people believe exists. I simply find it reasonable.
So the question is, is evolution compatible with the Bible, which I believe is true? Well, the Bible hasn't let me down yet.
Consider the discussion you and I just had about being born again. We were talking about being "born" again, and questioning if being born is the same thing as being begotten. You were saying it was not the same. I was saying it was the same. You had some good evidence to support your belief. I thought I had some decent evidence to support my perspective. When man first conceived of the word, the verb "to be born", what was he thinking? Was he thinking about the living beings that were emerging into the world from a mother's womb? Or was he perhaps thinking of something new coming forth, like a new idea that emerges from a mind? Do we know? Does it matter?
I see many people criticize the words of the Bible, such as when it speaks of talking snakes and talking donkeys, or the dome of the earth. What is a dome anyway? I read that a dome is a rounded vault forming the roof of a building or structure, typically with a circular base. Is the sky a roof? We're dealing with ideas here; concepts of human beings, each of which has his own brain, and his own perspective. To some people the sky is nothing like the roof of a building. To me, I suppose it could be. It shields us from solar radiation, Thank God. And I've met quite a few snakes in my time, and most of them are still walking and talking.
The point is metaphor, metaphor, metaphor.
Can God make a donkey talk? Of course he can. Did He? Well, I don't know. I wasn't there. The Bible says a donkey talked. I have to say that a donkey did talk. Is Satan a reptile? I don't know. I thought he was a fallen angel, but I'm sure he's a snake.
If you were to rub your hands together, what is it that falls on the ground? Well it is dander. Dander is comprised of skin cells mostly which includes DNA, proteins, and well, all sorts of stuff. When these tiny bunches of matter become removed from the living body, and fall onto the floor, and we sweep them up into a little pile, we have dust. We are dust. Carl Sagan tells us we are star dust. Was he wrong? I don't know. He could be right.
Where did the first DNA molecule come from? The term biology is derived from the Greek word βίος, bios, "life" and the suffix -λογία, -logia, "study of."
Does all life contain either DNA and/or RNA? How did the first life forms get their DNA and/or RNA? God had said, "Let the earth bring forth life" and "Let the waters bring forth life". Did God already place in the earth the necessary ingredients for the earth and the water to fulfill this task? Of course. Life came about because God made it possible for such things as DNA and RNA and proteins and enzymes to form, without the presence of life; and the simple became more complex. It's rather astounding when you think about it. To me, the fact that God made it possible for the earth to bring forth life is so much more amazing than to have, in the words of most atheists "magically popped every living species into existence as is from nothing". Could He have done that? Of course. Did He?
Let's go back...we discovered in our previous conversation that we can be born of the flesh, and we can be born of the spirit. We know that everyone, whether they are born again or not are alive, unless of course they have died. God breathed into Adam life. Adam was a physical living being. Was he born again? Did Adam have in Him what it takes to have eternal life? He had life. Did he have eternal life? Are there two kinds of life? If so, which kind of life did God breath into Adam's nostrils? Adam was formed of the dust of the ground. In other words, everything you find in Adam you can find on the ground. He had nostrils. So he must have been alive. God then breathed life into Adam. How can this be, unless we are speaking of the second kind of life. Did Adam have eternal life? Yes he did, and then he sinned and had to die. Before the fall, man was eternal. Afterwards he had to die a physical death. From then on eternal life would be given only by the grace of God. Sins had to be paid for. Life would require redemption. Is Adam in heaven? I don't know. I hope so.
The Bible tells us that "All things came into being through Him (God's Son), and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men." "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." Indeed man became a living being, but in what sense?
When we read our Bibles, we have to consider who wrote it. Did men write it? Or did God write it? I think we need to decide.
Please forgive my ramblings. I've got much to say on the subject, but I don't want to bog anyone down. Feel free to critique these ideas...I know they're a complete shambles.