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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by Reformer on Yesterday at 22:37:12 »
AS TO MY REPLY TO 4WD IN #5 ABOVE:

    He has started a thread on the subject addressed in my #5. I suggest you go there and follow him, whether you agree or not.

Thanks,

Buff
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But some scientists DO have something to gain. Sometimes scientists like Fauci and the CDC are science’s worst enemies in their political bias. This was obvious during Covid. Masks are not needed, then masks are essential, then two masks are preferrable are experimental, then vaccines keep you from spreading the virus, then you are a selfish monster if don’t get the vaccines, then mandates left thousands unemployed. Now we read that regular masks really didn’t do all that much. Now people are being injured by vaccines, and vaccinatednpeople get  ovid multiple times, etc while the smart kids on the block are following the “science”.

I have read articles from people that support radiometeic dating and the margin of error is not that impressive. The theory is reasonable I’m sure. Science is more academic and scientists are to a large degree human and flawed and in that field a certain magnitude of age is “expected” or you aren’t one of the smart kids. I was a geology major for a couple of years and bought the narrative. Even then to a glassy eyed young earth scientist as a pre-engineer, the margin of error seemed rather large for such a respectable “science”. But but swallowing the pill, so what, it’s sssscience for goodness sake.

As I said the Covid fiasco is the canary in the coal mine for flawed science or the tragic result of political bias influencing truth. What it isn’t is the logical end when science is truly followed.
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Theology Forum / Salvation is to the Individual
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 15:26:06 »
From the topic, Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics

The message of the entire Bible is about God.  Christianity is all about Jesus Christ.
If not about the individual, then why bother with telling us about God.  And Christianity is all about God, the Father; God, the Son: and God, the Holy Spirit; and the salvation that is a gift of God given by grace through faith.  And that salvation is to the individual - period.

Sorry TC, but you have really missed the boat on this one.

Also from that topic:
Only if you are reading thru individualistic eyes.  You look right over the texts talking about people groups as a whole.
Salvation is never given to groups. It is only given to individuals who are saved by grace through faith who then form the "group" referred to in the Bible as God's Elect.
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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by Reformer on Yesterday at 14:45:52 »
DaveW:

    "And the wording on the male prohibition is such that it excludes women: 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman ...' "

    "Man" here is used in its generic sense, which includes woman. Anyway, your one verse in Romans 1 is more than sufficient to condemn lesbianism.

Buff 
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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by Reformer on Yesterday at 14:36:08 »
DaveW:

    "Ezekiel 16:49: 'Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.'

  "Clearly that is not the entirety of Sodom's downfall. But IMO a biblical case can be made for that being the root of the problem. Look at Romans 1:"


    Go back and read Verse 46 of Ezekiel. "And your elder sister in Samaria, who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister; who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters." It is supposed that the prophet by "Sodom" in this place means the Israelites that dwelt beyond Jordan, in the land of the Moabites and Ammonites; or rather of the Moabites and Ammonites themselves.

    Literally, Sodom could not be called the younger sister of Jerusalem, as it existed before Jerusalem had a name. In looking east from Jerusalem, Samaria was on the left, and Sodom on the right hand; that is, the first was on the north, the second on the south of Jerusalem. In other words, Ezekiel's "Sodom" is not the same Sodom as the Sodom in Genesis 19.

    Adam Clarke, Hebrew and Greek scholar, says on Verse 49: "This was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom. If we are to take this place literally, Sodom was guilty of other crimes besides that for which she appears to have been especially punished; in addition to her unnatural crime, she is charged with pride, luxury, idleness, and uncharitableness; and these were sufficient to sink any city to the bottomless pit."

    But please note again that Clarke says the two "Sodoms" are distinctly different Sodoms.

Buff
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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by DaveW on Yesterday at 13:59:02 »
I will probably get myself into trouble here, but search the scriptures.  The above quoted passage in Romans 1 is the ONLY place in all of scripture where female homosexuality is mentioned.  There are dozens of specific places where male on male sex is expressly forbidden, like Leviticus 20.13; but not one word about woman on woman. And the wording on the male prohibition is such that it excludes women:  "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman ..." 

Make of that what you will.  But my Wesleyan roots takes the approach to be "silent where scripture is silent."  And as Paul said, we should not go beyond what is written.  1 Corinthians 4:6
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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by DaveW on Yesterday at 13:48:02 »
Buff -  the guy you referenced in the OP, Kerns,  is partly right.  Consider this:

Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.


Clearly that is not the entirety of Sodom's downfall.  But IMO a biblical case can be made for that being the root of the problem.  Look at Romans 1:

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


This says the homosexuality is NOT a root on its own, but a result of rejecting God and His goodness. In fact, God Himself made that ugly weed to grow.  As it is written:  "God gave them over to degrading passions."  I don't think we give that idea enough credence.
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Theology Forum / Re: Unchartered Lesson In Biblical Hermeneutics
« Last post by DaveW on Yesterday at 13:36:23 »
Christianity is all about the salvation of the individual, period. That, in fact, is the message of the entire Bible.
Only if you are reading thru individualistic eyes.  You look right over the texts talking about people groups as a whole. 
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General Discussion Forum / Re: Creation scientists
« Last post by DaveW on Yesterday at 13:25:24 »
Since Jesus referenced early Genesis accounts, I would be careful.

John 5:45–47
45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Matthew 24:37-39
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
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