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Bible Verses / Jeremiah 46:13-28 and John 19:31-37
« Last post by Jacob Ben Avraham on Today at 00:43:53 »
JEREMIAH 46:13-28
 

     Many years later, after the fall of Egypt at Passover, disaster strikes, this time, YHVH uses Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon as an instrument of destruction against Egypt.  Nebuchadnezzar invaded and conquered Egypt in the year 605 B.C.E and was ruled by Babylon for 43 years.

    Also, the Prophet Ezekiel foresees the exile of the nation of Egypt for 40 years (probably during the Millennium).  God will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, but bring them back again after. (Ezekiel 29)  Just as Israel was in the desert for 40 years, Egypt will also "wander" for the same time.     

    It seems like Egypt was not humbled after the Passover experience.  You would think that the pharaohs that rose to power after the time of Passover would have realized the author of Egypt's destruction, but seems like they did not, a hard heart is hard to break at times.   

     There are people today that have hardened hearts, that still resist the will of YHVH, to become sons of God, servants of Yeshua, and talmidim. At times, God will humble us through accidents, illnesses, etc.. don't wait for that to happen, HUMBLE THY SELF IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD!  He loves you and wants you as his own!

     God loves the Egyptian people also.  Today in Egypt there are born-again believers and the Coptic church is alive and well. Just like Israel was chastised, so Egypt will also be chastised.  We must remember however that Egypt was home to our Messiah Yeshua during his younger years.  As Hosea 11:1 states;  "Out of Egypt I called my son!" 

     We can look at that in two ways.  Israel was like "Adonai's son" who was called out of Egypt by Moses and brought to the promised land 40 years later.  Yet also YESHUA is the "Son of God"  (HaBen Elohim) who was "called out of Egypt" when the time was right to begin his ministry.   

MAT 25:1-46;   JOHN 19:31-37 
 

     ”The Ten Talents”  A “talent” was a “weight” of money thousands of years ago.  It was a lot, one could have a “talent” of gold, or silver, or copper, brass, bronze, etc. And like money today, it could be invested, or wisely spent,

     We also use the word “talent” as something that we have, like an “ability” to do good.  As believers, we all have “talents” or “abilities” given to us through the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit), with which to serve our LORD and Savior on earth.  But, like the evil servant in the parable, who did nothing with his talent, only buried it, there are believers today who are doing the same.   Many have more than one talent, or “spiritual gift” and they are not using it (or them). They are going to waste, or are squandering them in “things of the world.   

     Can you sing? Yes, are you singing for God? Can you write? Are you writing for God? Can you teach? Are you teaching God's word to others? Can you play an instrument? Are you playing for the LORD?  Think about the talents you have. How are you using them?

     John 19:31-37  talks about the Eve of Pesach, since part of this Parasha is all about Passover, it is fitting that these verses be read.  The bodies of the two criminals and of Yeshua were to be taken down from the crosses where they were crucified.  The scripture says “cursed is he who hangs on a tree, (from Deuteronomy 21:22,23) 

    Yeshua already carried our “curse” and that of the two thieves.  All was accomplished during that special Passover.  It also states that a Roman soldier pierced the side of Yeshua with a spear, and out came blood and water which was proof that He was really dead.   

     Blood and water have special symbolism.  The blood symbolizes the wine which we drink during Passover, and during the beginning of each sabbath.  Symbolically, we are inviting Yeshua to come inside of us, and continue to be part of our lives.   

     The water is Yeshua who is the “Living Water” the blood also symbolizes “life” so through His death, we have “Life” and that is “Life Eternal”.   

     “They shall look upon Him whom they pierced”  (vs 37) One day in the future, Yeshua will return in the clouds of Heaven, and “ALL” will see Him coming,  “They” means “All” even those very soldiers who pierced Him, with the flagellum and with the spear, will SEE HIM someday soon.  And ALL will have to answer for their actions.   

Shalom

Ben Avraham
2
JEREMIAH 46:13-28
 

     Many years later, after the fall of Egypt at Passover, disaster strikes, this time, YHVH uses Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon as an instrument of destruction against Egypt.  Nebuchadnezzar invaded and conquered Egypt in the year 605 B.C.E and was ruled by Babylon for 43 years.

    Also, the Prophet Ezekiel foresees the exile of the nation of Egypt for 40 years (probably during the Millennium).  God will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, but bring them back again after. (Ezekiel 29)  Just as Israel was in the desert for 40 years, Egypt will also "wander" for the same time.     

    It seems like Egypt was not humbled after the Passover experience.  You would think that the pharaohs that rose to power after the time of Passover would have realized the author of Egypt's destruction, but seems like they did not, a hard heart is hard to break at times.   

     There are people today that have hardened hearts, that still resist the will of YHVH, to become sons of God, servants of Yeshua, and talmidim. At times, God will humble us through accidents, illnesses, etc.. don't wait for that to happen, HUMBLE THY SELF IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD!  He loves you and wants you as his own!

     God loves the Egyptian people also.  Today in Egypt there are born-again believers and the Coptic church is alive and well. Just like Israel was chastised, so Egypt will also be chastised.  We must remember however that Egypt was home to our Messiah Yeshua during his younger years.  As Hosea 11:1 states;  "Out of Egypt I called my son!" 

     We can look at that in two ways.  Israel was like "Adonai's son" who was called out of Egypt by Moses and brought to the promised land 40 years later.  Yet also YESHUA is the "Son of God"  (HaBen Elohim) who was "called out of Egypt" when the time was right to begin his ministry.   

MAT 25:1-46;   JOHN 19:31-37 
 

     ”The Ten Talents”  A “talent” was a “weight” of money thousands of years ago.  It was a lot, one could have a “talent” of gold, or silver, or copper, brass, bronze, etc. And like money today, it could be invested, or wisely spent,

     We also use the word “talent” as something that we have, like an “ability” to do good.  As believers, we all have “talents” or “abilities” given to us through the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit), with which to serve our LORD and Savior on earth.  But, like the evil servant in the parable, who did nothing with his talent, only buried it, there are believers today who are doing the same.   Many have more than one talent, or “spiritual gift” and they are not using it (or them). They are going to waste, or are squandering them in “things of the world.   

     Can you sing? Yes, are you singing for God? Can you write? Are you writing for God? Can you teach? Are you teaching God's word to others? Can you play an instrument? Are you playing for the LORD?  Think about the talents you have. How are you using them?

     John 19:31-37  talks about the Eve of Pesach, since part of this Parasha is all about Passover, it is fitting that these verses be read.  The bodies of the two criminals and of Yeshua were to be taken down from the crosses where they were crucified.  The scripture says “cursed is he who hangs on a tree, (from Deuteronomy 21:22,23) 

    Yeshua already carried our “curse” and that of the two thieves.  All was accomplished during that special Passover.  It also states that a Roman soldier pierced the side of Yeshua with a spear, and out came blood and water which was proof that He was really dead.   

     Blood and water have special symbolism.  The blood symbolizes the wine which we drink during Passover, and during the beginning of each sabbath.  Symbolically, we are inviting Yeshua to come inside of us, and continue to be part of our lives.   

     The water is Yeshua who is the “Living Water” the blood also symbolizes “life” so through His death, we have “Life” and that is “Life Eternal”.   

     “They shall look upon Him whom they pierced”  (vs 37) One day in the future, Yeshua will return in the clouds of Heaven, and “ALL” will see Him coming,  “They” means “All” even those very soldiers who pierced Him, with the flagellum and with the spear, will SEE HIM someday soon.  And ALL will have to answer for their actions.   

Shalom

Ben Avraham
3
JEREMIAH 46:13-28
 

     Many years later, after the fall of Egypt at Passover, disaster strikes, this time, YHVH uses Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon as an instrument of destruction against Egypt.  Nebuchadnezzar invaded and conquered Egypt in the year 605 B.C.E and was ruled by Babylon for 43 years.

    Also, the Prophet Ezekiel foresees the exile of the nation of Egypt for 40 years (probably during the Millennium).  God will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, but bring them back again after. (Ezekiel 29)  Just as Israel was in the desert for 40 years, Egypt will also "wander" for the same time.     

    It seems like Egypt was not humbled after the Passover experience.  You would think that the pharaohs that rose to power after the time of Passover would have realized the author of Egypt's destruction, but seems like they did not, a hard heart is hard to break at times.   

     There are people today that have hardened hearts, that still resist the will of YHVH, to become sons of God, servants of Yeshua, and talmidim. At times, God will humble us through accidents, illnesses, etc.. don't wait for that to happen, HUMBLE THY SELF IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD!  He loves you and wants you as his own!

     God loves the Egyptian people also.  Today in Egypt there are born-again believers and the Coptic church is alive and well. Just like Israel was chastised, so Egypt will also be chastised.  We must remember however that Egypt was home to our Messiah Yeshua during his younger years.  As Hosea 11:1 states;  "Out of Egypt I called my son!" 

     We can look at that in two ways.  Israel was like "Adonai's son" who was called out of Egypt by Moses and brought to the promised land 40 years later.  Yet also YESHUA is the "Son of God"  (HaBen Elohim) who was "called out of Egypt" when the time was right to begin his ministry.   

MAT 25:1-46;   JOHN 19:31-37 
 

     ”The Ten Talents”  A “talent” was a “weight” of money thousands of years ago.  It was a lot, one could have a “talent” of gold, or silver, or copper, brass, bronze, etc. And like money today, it could be invested, or wisely spent,

     We also use the word “talent” as something that we have, like an “ability” to do good.  As believers, we all have “talents” or “abilities” given to us through the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit), with which to serve our LORD and Savior on earth.  But, like the evil servant in the parable, who did nothing with his talent, only buried it, there are believers today who are doing the same.   Many have more than one talent, or “spiritual gift” and they are not using it (or them). They are going to waste, or are squandering them in “things of the world.   

     Can you sing? Yes, are you singing for God? Can you write? Are you writing for God? Can you teach? Are you teaching God's word to others? Can you play an instrument? Are you playing for the LORD?  Think about the talents you have. How are you using them?

     John 19:31-37  talks about the Eve of Pesach, since part of this Parasha is all about Passover, it is fitting that these verses be read.  The bodies of the two criminals and of Yeshua were to be taken down from the crosses where they were crucified.  The scripture says “cursed is he who hangs on a tree, (from Deuteronomy 21:22,23) 

    Yeshua already carried our “curse” and that of the two thieves.  All was accomplished during that special Passover.  It also states that a Roman soldier pierced the side of Yeshua with a spear, and out came blood and water which was proof that He was really dead.   

     Blood and water have special symbolism.  The blood symbolizes the wine which we drink during Passover, and during the beginning of each sabbath.  Symbolically, we are inviting Yeshua to come inside of us, and continue to be part of our lives.   

     The water is Yeshua who is the “Living Water” the blood also symbolizes “life” so through His death, we have “Life” and that is “Life Eternal”.   

     “They shall look upon Him whom they pierced”  (vs 37) One day in the future, Yeshua will return in the clouds of Heaven, and “ALL” will see Him coming,  “They” means “All” even those very soldiers who pierced Him, with the flagellum and with the spear, will SEE HIM someday soon.  And ALL will have to answer for their actions.   

Shalom


Ben Avraham
4
News from Around the World / Re: Sophia
« Last post by Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Yesterday at 21:55:32 »
So some idiots took things too far.  Probably due to syncretism.
It would appear that the first idiot and idiot-in-chief was Solomon.
5
Theology Forum / Re: Melchizidec
« Last post by Reformer on Yesterday at 21:50:49 »
RB:

    "There was NO Jesus Christ until he was conceived in the womb of a virgin girl named Mary around two thousand years ago!"

    I'm still of the opinion Melchizedek was possibly the Son of God who appeared as Melchizedek. If yes, He did not appear as the Messiah at that time, but as a High Priest. That didn't occur until centuries later.

    But whether that is factual or only an opinion, let us not forget that in the creation, God said, "Let us make man in our own image." As we all should know, "us" entails more than one.

Buff
   
6
Theology Forum / Re: Hell's Daily Tally
« Last post by NyawehNyoh on Yesterday at 18:36:04 »
.
John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me

John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

John 14:31 . . I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

God is not only Jesus' supervisor, but also his role model. For example: the Father has entrusted all judgment to His son (John 5:22) For that reason, people really ought to be scared of Christ because he intends to go about the business of judging no differently than the fire and brimstone practices of the God of the Old Testament, by whom Jesus has been trained to take the reins.

John 5:19 . . I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

Isa 11:4-5 . . He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,610 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 98,063,490 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_
7
News from Around the World / Re: Sophia
« Last post by Rella on Yesterday at 13:38:00 »
Sophia in Greek means wisdom.  Wisdom in Proverbs 8 was personified as "her."

So some idiots took things too far.  Probably due to syncretism.

It is far beyond taking things too far.... This is blasphemous.

I went to look for the Presbyterian Layman article that I had read about those ''stupid'' women studying Sophia.

This is bad... really BAD.

This actually could make ME want to canonize Frankie cause for all the bad he has claimed.... nothing like this. (Yes, @Amo.. I said that)

I have copied 2 of a very long list on this.

YES... I know of the biblical wisdom and that wisdom is always referred to as she.... but I truly see the Satanic involvement in this and it makes me cringe.

All bolding and color changes would be me.

#1 is what the Presbyterian Layman article was based on.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1994/april-4/theology-fallout-escalates-over-goddess-sophia-worship.html
Quote
Fallout Escalates over ‘Goddess’ Sophia Worship

Ecumenical conferences often come and go with little notice.

But the fallout from last fall’s “Re-Imagining” event has continued to escalate as more people have discovered the depth of its unorthodox feminist worship and teaching.

During one session, a controversial incantation was used, including the words: “Our maker, Sophia, we are women in your image, with the hot blood of our wombs we give form to new life … with nectar between our thighs we invite a lover … with our warm body fluids we remind the world of its pleasures and sensations.”

After the event, some of the 2,000 women at the November gathering in Minneapolis, held in conjunction with the World Council of Churches’ Decade of Churches in Solidarity, called the event the “Second Reformation.” Yet many clergy and laity of the United Methodist Church (UMC), Presbyterian Church U.S.A. (PCUSA), Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), and American Baptist Church (ABC) have been galvanized to protest participation by their denominations.

Working from a basis in feminist theology, conference participants looked to pantheistic religions and the heretical gnostic gospels to “reimagine” a new god and a new road to salvation. The attendees blessed, thanked, and praised Sophia as a deity. Organizers claimed Sophia is the embodiment of wisdom, found in the first nine chapters of Proverbs. Sophia, they said, was with God at the Creation, and she is “the tree of life to those who lay hold of her.”
[/b]
Many of the 34 major speakers charged that the church and its belief in the incarnation and atonement of Jesus Christ was a patriarchal construct and had caused oppression of women, violence in the streets, child abuse, racism, classism, sexism, and pollution.

“I can no longer worship in a theological context that depicts god as an abusive parent and Jesus as the obedient, trusting child,” Virginia Mollenkott said. “This violent theology encourages the violence of our streets and nation.”

Feminist theologian Delores Williams, referring to the Atonement, said, “I don’t think we need folks hanging on crosses and blood dripping and weird stuff.” Chinese feminist Kwok Pui-Lan claimed, “If we cannot imagine Jesus as a tree, as a river, as wind, and as rain, we are doomed together.” Korean university professor Chung Hyun Kyung led the group in trying to harness the divine energy of the universe using New Age techniques.

As an apparent substitute for the Lord’s Supper, leaders said, “Sophia, we celebrate the nourishment of your milk and honey” in an invitation to “the banquet table of Creation.”

Article #2.

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/who-sophia/

Type: Academic Article
Topic: Biblical Word Studies, Feminine Language for God
Published Date: April 30, 1994

Who is Sophia?
The quest to find feminine attributes in the Godhead is ongoing, as many women yearn for an understanding of God that they can relate to and identify with. For them, the Church’s traditional view of the “patriarchal God” is not only too limited but too limiting. This view is too limited in light of the richness of the full range of biblical language for God. It is too limited in that it can exclude believing Christian women from full participation in the Body of Christ, although they too are creatures made in the image of God and now equal children of God along with their Christian brothers.

In the search for a more inclusive understanding of God, the feminine “Sophia” has for many persons become a bridge between traditional Christianity and feminist concerns. So we ask: Who is Sophia, and where did she come from? Is she the long-awaited answer to this search?

“Sophia” is a transliteration of the Greek noun meaning “wisdom.” In Hebrew, the word for wisdom is “chok-mah.” In the Old Testament (especially Proverbs 3 and 8), and in several apocryphal texts,1 wisdom is personified as a woman. Some understand this personification of wisdom as nothing more than a literary device. Others are convinced that wisdom is intentionally personified as an aspect of divinity, or as a goddess, distinct from God.

Sophia appears to be gaining popularity among feminist theologians and among some secular women interested in goddess worship. One recent example of Sophia’s popularity was an ecumenical Christian conference, “Re-Imagining … God, Community, the Church”, which was held in November 1993 in Minneapolis. The conference was part of The Ecumenical Decade: Churches in Solidarity with Women, a program of the World Council of Churches. Sophia was a recurrent theme throughout the conference.2

However, interest in Sophia is not a new phenomenon. In Gnosticism,3 a heresy in the early Christian church, Sophia is sometimes portrayed as a divine being superior to God, who reprimands God for arrogance. In other Gnostic texts, Sophia is a mischievous spirit who indirectly creates a world so evil that God has to rescue it by sending another emanation named Jesus. According to these texts, Jesus taught that we are rescued from evil and returned to God through knowledge (gnosis).4

More recently, the Shakers have understood Sophia as the fourth person of the Godhead. A Russian Orthodox priest named Sergei Bulgakov has taught that Sophia is the essence of the Trinity, the glue that binds Father, Son and Holy Spirit together.5 Thus Sophia has been gaining popularity in Christian circles for many years. For a growing number of Christians, Sophia is the feminine symbol of divinity desperately needed to balance the patriarchal emphasis of the Church.

The central question is whether “sophia” is to be understood as a person or as a concept, as a divine entity or as an abstract attribute of God. The answer to this question is the subject of much current debate. Susan Cady, Marian Ronan and Hal Taussig, authors of Wisdom’s Feast, argue that Sophia is in fact the female goddess of the Bible.6 For Cady, Sophia is a real biblical person. “She is a co-creator with the Hebrew God, she is a heavenly queen, she is messenger from God, and she is God’s lover.”7 Cady goes on to say that Sophia is “divine, creating, judging, and ruling just as God is.”8 Catherine Keller of Drew University Theological School insists that Sophia preaches, prophesies, judges and promises security to those who obey her. “Like the spirit,” Keller writes, “this Sophia is at once something humans may seek as their own and something given by God of God’s own nature.”9 Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza argues that Sophia is the God of Israel expressed in the language and imagery of the goddess.10 For some feminist theologians, including Cady, Sophia is the pre-incarnate Christ; Sophia was a divine entity which took the form of a male human to accommodate patriarchal culture. For those who understand her as a divine entity, Sophia has become an important link between traditional language for God and feminist spirituality. Proponents of Sophia worship claim that Sophia as a name for God is used to remind us that God has a feminine side and that solely masculine images and names for God are inadequate.

In contrast, those who argue that wisdom (sophia) is an attribute of God rather than an independent divine entity accuse “Sophia-worshippers” of taking relevant biblical texts out of context and relying heavily on apocryphal and Gnostic writings. They argue that, biblically, wisdom is an attribute of God similar to justice, holiness or mercy. In the Bible, “Sophia” is nowhere used as a name for God. While wisdom is indeed personified in Proverbs 7-10—(“Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice? On the heights along the way, where the paths meet, she takes her stand.” 8:1, 2) — this personification is a literary device commonly found in wisdom literature: “Folly” is also personified as a woman in the book of Proverbs (chapters 5-7). However, wisdom is never equated with God.

John Oswalt of Asbury Theological Seminary writes that “[in Proverbs] ‘wisdom’ is regularly treated as a synonym of ‘understanding’ and ‘discretion.’ It is perfectly clear in this context that these latter two words are not proper nouns and that therefore ‘wisdom’ is not either… Wisdom is a creation, not a divine being.” Oswalt argues that the personifications are intended to emphasize an abstract concept. The purpose of the book of Proverbs is to stress the principles of wisdom for effective living.11

The recent Re-Imagining conference serves as an effective example of the controversy regarding Sophia. The conference was largely centered around Sophia, but which Sophia? Was Sophia understood as a divine person or as an abstract concept? While much of the liturgy and worship focused on Sophia, many conference participants would deny that they worshipped Sophia as a goddess, or as an entity separate from God. For many attendees, Sophia was merely an understanding of wisdom in feminine terms, and prayers to Sophia were intended to revere the female aspect of the Christian God. Annie Wu King of Women’s Ministries (PCUSA) stated, “There was no worship of a goddess Sophia. There [were references to] the Proverbs and the understanding of Wisdom [in feminine terms]. It certainly was not a separate goddess…”12 These attendees insist that their prayers to Sophia were holy and honorable, and were not directed toward anything other than the Christian God.

It is true that the Re-Imagining liturgy does not explicitly mention a goddess. However, there are several aspects of the conference which cause one to question the true nature of the Sophia worshipped there. Sophia was blessed, praised, invoked and thanked. Before each speaker came to the podium, a “Sophia blessing” was sung, inviting her to bring her wisdom: “Bless Sophia, dream a vision, share the wisdom dwelling deep within.” The Re-Imagining packet included a poem which contained the lines, “Gracious God Sophia, Partner in Creation, tree of life, hidden treasure, born before these hills, before the brimming springs, before the lakes, Breathe on me.”13 The Re-Imagining Newsletter informs us that “Sophia” is used rather than “Wisdom” because it reminds us that Sophia is “someone who walks, talks, plays, cries, eats, creates, and loves.”14 During the conference, as part of the liturgy several proclamations were made which describe Sophia as a divine entity: “Sophia’s voice has been silenced too long. Let her speak and bless us throughout these days;” “Sophia is the place in you where the entire universe resides;” “It is time to state clearly and dream wildly about who…we intend to be in the future through the power and guidance of the spirit of wisdom whom we name Sophia.” One of the speakers, the Reverend Barbara Lundblad, stated, “Jesus appears as the prophet and the child of Sophia…. In all Jesus’ compassionate, liberating words and deeds are the works of Sophia, re-establishing the right order of creation.”15

To understand which Sophia various leaders of the Re-Imagining Conference had in mind, one must also take a close look at the “milk and honey” ritual which was performed in Sophia’s honor on the final Sunday of the conference. Conference participants are adamant in insisting that this ritual was not intended to replace the Eucharist. However, there were many parallels between it and the traditional meal of bread and wine. The Re-Imagining ritual included the words, “Our maker Sophia, we are women in your image….With the hot blood of our wombs we give form to new life….Sophia Creator God, let your milk and honey flow….with nectar between our thighs we invite a lover, we birth a child; with our warm body fluids we remind the world of its pleasures and sensations…We celebrate the sensual life you give us….We celebrate the fingertips vibrating upon the skin of a lover. We celebrate the tongue which licks a wound or wets our lips. We celebrate our bodiliness, our physicality, the sensations of pleasure, our oneness with earth and water.” These words would certainly appear to be prayers to a feminine divinity.

Presbyterian Church (USA) theologians Joseph D. Small and John P. Burgess responded to the conference with the criticism that the “Re-Imagining rituals failed to assist worshippers to understand the connection between Old Testament wisdom motifs and the self-disclosure of God in Jesus Christ.” They insist that in the New Testament, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God (I Cor. 1:24), “not wisdom as a divine manifestation apart from Jesus Christ.” Small and Burgess go on to write that, “many of the prayers went beyond using wisdom as one of the metaphors appropriately employed in liturgical address of God. Wisdom/sophia, both in frequency and formulation, became an alternative employed in distinction from the triune God.”16

While conference planners and attendees may not have intended to worship Sophia as an entity separate from God, it is clearly implied in the liturgies, and also in many of the statements made, that this was indeed the case. An attribute of God was transformed into a distinct and divine image.

Who is “Sophia”? For an increasing number of feminist theologians and probably for a great many of the Re-Imagining participants, Sophia is a unique and divine person. How she relates to God is a matter of varying interpretation. It has been argued that Sophia is superior to God, that she is equal to God, that she is God, or that she is inferior to God, yet still divine.

The biblical understanding of Sophia which is most true to the scriptural context is that sophia is none of these things. Sophia is nothing more than a Greek noun describing an important attribute of God. Wisdom is personified not because it has an existence of its own, apart from God, but as a literary tool used to stress its importance.

As we continue the search for an inclusive understanding of God, it is imperative that we remain within the bounds of Scripture. We can indeed learn from exploring the meaning of sophia. It is important that several of God’s attributes are understood in feminine terms. This reality contributes to the concept of a God who transcends gender, and who is accessible to both men and women. The introduction of a goddess, however, merely obscures the fact that God is neither male nor female. The appeal of Sophia is understandable, yet we as Christian theologians must seek to meet the needs that women face apart from the goddess. The needs are real, and the search must go on.
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Topic Summary
Posted by: Texas Conservative
« on: Today at 10:32:58 »Insert Quote
Sophia in Greek means wisdom.  Wisdom in Proverbs 8 was personified as "her."

So some idiots took things too far.  Probably due to syncretism.
Posted by: Rella
« on: Today at 08:57:53 »Insert Quote
A little side journey from our normal "Christian" debates.

Background:
I was reading this article when I came across one name that took me back some 15 or 18 years, during the time my local church was under going a split.

Thee had been , since the early 1980s and going forward a publication "free" sent to all members called the Presbyterian Layman.

At the time I was unaware that those producing this publication were in a way actual watch dogs reporting not only the good but the not so good.

I well remember the articles in the late 1990s when during the "summer retreats" they would offer up things like "Re-Imagining God" (Dont ask. I never was there and have no clue what that was about.... but the one from this one particular summer of Women's Retreat was when they were studying the "goddess Sophia"

Knowing that in our 66 books we have no mention of a goddess... that would be such that we might show a modicum of reverence for I got a little upset. I did not look into it because that was long before I ever though I would have a computer....
but it stuck with me that it surely had to be Pagan and not anything a group of Christian woman would study.

UNTIL TODAY:

I have quickly been perusing articles and read that ...Who is Sophia in the Bible? | U.S. Catholic
Historically, the authors of the wisdom literature began this feminine reference to Sophia between 33 B.C. and 4-5 A.D. There are only four other figures who are mentioned more than Sophia in Jewish scripture (the Old Testament): Yahweh, Moses, David, and Job. Given this fact, it is quite incredible that so few know much about her.

And also

Does the Bible teach that Sophia is the goddess of wisdom?
Jan 4, 2022Does the Bible teach that Sophia is the goddess of wisdom? Answer The Bible does not teach that Sophia is the goddess of wisdom. In fact, no one by the name of Sophia is even mentioned in the Bible. (This I kenw)

The following could offer an interesting debate... or not depending on your views...

Quote
" Isis was also often associated with other goddesses and female figures such as Sophia (Wisdom). These links will become important as we examine Isis’s influence on the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus."

Quote
Mary, Isis, and the Goddesses of the Via Egnatia
The shared symbols of pagan cults and Early Christian belief

 Valerie Abrahamsen  January 25, 2023



The Via Egnatia, which ran from Constantinople in the east to Dyrrachium, Albania, in the west, was one portion of the more than 50,000 miles of well-built roads of the Roman Empire. It was along the Via Egnatia, in part, that Paul and his companions spread the Christian message, visiting friends and family, preaching in city markets, and dispatching letters to communities that had welcomed them.

The most prominent region traversed by the Via Egnatia and visited by Paul was Macedonia (e.g., Romans 15:26; 2 Corinthians 1:16; 1 Thessalonians 1:7). Within this region, two of the major cities associated with the early Jesus movement were Thessaloniki (Salonica) and Philippi, and Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians and Philippians are among the earliest surviving examples of Christian literature.[1] These two cities are also among the most extensively excavated in Greece and provide important archaeological information about the social and religious context of the early Jesus movement.

What becomes readily apparent from the archaeological evidence is that pagan cults were alive and well not only during the early years of the empire as Christianity spread but also long afterwards, and female deities were often especially popular. Indeed, many within these cities continued to worship traditional deities even as they added Jesus to their religious repertory.

At Thessaloniki and Philippi, evidence has been found for the veneration of a wide array of gods and goddesses. Here we will focus on the Egyptian goddess Isis, who, though a relative newcomer to the pantheon, became quite popular throughout the empire.

 

Isis and Serapis

Temples, shrines, and statues to Isis have been found throughout the empire. Isis’s popularity was undoubtedly due to her various attributes—a healing deity, the ideal wife and mother, and all-powerful, associated with both life and death.

The ancient Egyptian gods—Osiris (Serapis), his wife/sister Isis, and their son Horus—spread into Greece and elsewhere in the Hellenistic era through trade routes. They ultimately became among the most popular non-Greek deities in the first two centuries CE. Their cult, propelled primarily by Isis, was based on an elaborate mythology, and temple practices included processions and initiation ceremonies. Isis was also often associated with other goddesses and female figures such as Sophia (Wisdom). These links will become important as we examine Isis’s influence on the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

 

Isis and Mary at Thessaloniki

Thessaloniki had a long and rich history. Founded by the Macedonian king Cassander in c. 315 BCE, it was “a vibrant and politically significant metropolitan center” from its founding into the Byzantine era. [2] In Roman times, it was the chief port of Macedonia, the capital of the Roman province. In the Byzantine era, at least three basilicas were constructed in the city: St. Demetrios, Acheiropoietos, and another that has been identified beneath the standing remains of the city’s Hagia Sophia church.

Like other Greco-Roman cities, Thessaloniki’s religious environment was extremely diverse. While evidence for the cults of Kybele, Mithras, Dionysos, Herakles, Apollo, and Aphrodite have been found, it was the worship of Isis and Serapis that was especially prominent.

As Christianity developed in the second and third centuries, devotees worshiped gods as city or protector deities. Thessaloniki’s patron deity was the Cabiros, a young prince murdered by his two brothers. Later legends about the Christian martyr St. Demetrios (early fourth century) portrayed the saint as the city’s new protector, replacing the Cabiros. In the St. Demetrios legends, Lady Eutaxia, the female personification of civil order, was always present with the saint.

According to archaeologist Charalambos Bakirtzis, St. Demetrios shared the basilica with Mary in a similar way that Serapis shared a temple and altar with Isis. Ever-present Lady Eutaxia was equated with the goddess Tyche (Fortune) of the city.

There are yet other important links between the traditional pagan deities and the Christian pantheon. The iconography of Isis nursing Horus became a template for Mary and the infant Jesus.[3] This imagery is especially significant for women: mother (Isis, Mary), son (Horus, Jesus), and mother’s milk (nursing). These connections converge specifically at Thessaloniki in that, by the end of the sixth century, the city was providing free medical care in the basilica of St. Demetrios. Health and healing were pervasive aspects of many traditional cults. Thus, treatments at the hospital in the basilica paralleled those practiced in the local Serapis sanctuary and in many other cults of antiquity.[4]

Furthermore, many of the Christian mosaics at St. Demetrios depict children, and an inscription connected with one of these mosaics gives thanks to Mary, the mother of God, for an act of healing. This indicates, therefore, that the basilica had effectively replaced the Serapis sanctuary as the city and region’s primary healing center.

 
Isis and Mary at Philippi

Though smaller than Thessaloniki, Philippi was also quite prominent in the first centuries CE, having been the site of Antony and Octavian’s victory over Brutus and Cassius in 42 BCE. Excavations at Philippi have revealed the Roman forum, including temples to the emperor and empress, a colossal monument to the deified Livia (wife of Emperor Augustus), and the remains of six early Byzantine basilicas

The Philippians venerated the male divinities Sylvanus, Dionysos, and the Thracian Horseman for centuries. Similarly to Thessaloniki, however, its major deities in the early imperial era were the goddesses Artemis (Diana) and Isis, both healing deities and both linked to women and children.[5] The Isis temple at Philippi was built very close to the Artemis reliefs that are carved on the acropolis hill, probably because of the healing springs that were once to be found there.

Since prehistoric times, healing was seen to be accomplished through water and milk—that is, mother’s milk—both of which continued to be associated with Greco-Roman goddesses. Thus, the images of Isis/Horus and Mary/Jesus connect the elements of the ideal mother who nourishes her child, the healing and health-promoting powers of her milk, and the curative properties of water. Philippi emerged over time as a pilgrimage site for people in need of healing in its cultic waters, which were linked to female deities.[6]

All of this evidence sheds important light on the growth of Christianity at Thessaloniki and Philippi. The emergence of a strong attachment to Mary, the mother of Jesus, at these cities and elsewhere suggests that the replacement of a female deity by an all-male godhead—Jesus and his father—was inconceivable to many pagans. When Christianity eventually prevailed, adherents turned to Jesus and his mother Mary who resembled many of their traditional goddesses.
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General Discussion Forum / Re: Thoughts on Tyre Nichols
« Last post by mommydi on Yesterday at 13:20:56 »
My question is-

Why are the bleeding heart libs clutching their pearls about a loss of a man's life when they support killing innocent baby girls and baby boys in the womb up until birth - and support no intervention or care for babies born alive after a failed attempt at baby killing.

Why is that?

Tyre Nichols was sadly calling out for his mom while being murdered.
What about the babies being murdered by their own moms?


9
General Discussion Forum / Re: Thoughts on Tyre Nichols
« Last post by Texas Conservative on Yesterday at 12:46:14 »
A police leader who was fired from Atlanta.  Relaxed standards for hiring of officers in the wake of defund the police.

Memphis is an exercise in what not to do.

10
General Discussion Forum / Re: Thoughts on Tyre Nichols
« Last post by Texas Conservative on Yesterday at 12:45:08 »
Two Words:

White Sublemaly.
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