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4WD, the question which Nicodemus asked had never been asked before, at least not in the scripture. If Nicodemus had not ask the question which he did, then it is so plain our Lord Jesus would have never mention water in any sense whatsoever, and we know this by following the context of this brief discourse where water is never mention again.
Whatever you think Jesus' reasoning there in "mentioning" water is moot.  The simple truth is that Jesus didn't simply mention water; Jesus made water an integral part of being born AGAIN right there with Spirit.  You posted the following and asked me to consider:

Quote from:  JESUS CHRIST THE GREATEST OF ALL PROPHETS/TEACHERS hear ye him
John 3:6-8~"That which is born of the flesh is flesh ( Water~RB) ; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (a new creation within a man unseen by human eyes, known only by the fruits of the Spirit~RB)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Nicodemus trying to understand how this is possible without reentering his mother's womb and being born AGAIN....even if that was possible, it still would come out FLESH/SINFUL at enmity against God!~RB)

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Seriously, RB, that was really bad.  You implied that what you inserted into Jesus' words to Nicodemus was Jesus' teaching.  It was not. That might have been Calvin's teaching but it most definitely was not Jesus' teaching.
Quote from: RB
Water is not mentioned again in verse 8? because the Lord told us why: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh". Water is the first birth we all experience when we came from our mother's womb, when the water breaks the baby IS BORN, or will be very soon. But, it comes forth as FLESH, which is sinful and at enmity against the God of heaven, regardless of how cute and innocent they may look, TIME will prove just how sinful they are, and without any biblical training they all will turn out to be devils in human flesh, when left to themselves, and even with good training they still may turn out to be very wicked, without the new birth, and even that does not rid them of their sinful flesh~yet, the new man has power to mortify the flesh and have victory over it, but never can eradicate the flesh~impossible.
That is such garbage. 

When a baby is born it comes forth as flesh and spirit.  The flesh of the baby is from the flesh of the parents; but the spirit [or soul] of the baby is from Spirit, from God himself. That spirit is not dead in trespasses and sins.   God did not form a dead spirit in that baby. It is alive and well just as God formed it. But later as the child grows and learns and understands and disobeys, the spirit becomes dead in HIS trespasses and sins. If and when he is born again (of water and Spirit) his spirit is once again made alive and well as it was originally at the first birth.  That is why it is call REgeneration.  That is why Jesus called it being born AGAIN.  The flesh is not born again; the spirit is born again.  God does it again.  God generated that spirit originally in the child; God regenerates that spirit. That man is no longer dead but is made alive again.

RB, just because Jesus did not repeat the word water in verse 8 as He did in verse 5, you cannot ignore or dismiss the fact that He did say "water and Spirit" in verse 5.  Verse 8 does not negate verse 5, no matter how much you wish it did.
Quote from: RB[size=10pt
The new birth is a birth performed by the Spirit of God alone upon whomsoever He will.[/size]
That is indeed the case and God has told us who those are.  They are whosoever believe and are baptized.
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Show me one place where the Bible associates water with birth.
Well, the chapter we're looking at, for starters.  John 3.  ::lookaround::

It isn't just birth, but creation and adoption, both of which are also births of a type.

1 John 5:4-8, the water bears witness in the earth of those who have been re-born.
Genesis 1, everything that exists is formed from waters.
Genesis 6-8, the flood story has the whole earth buried and re-born from waters.  The New Testament explicitly tells us this is a picture of water baptism.
Exodus 2, Moses is adopted by being drawn out of water.
...

Perhaps it would be helpful to look at the cosmology of the ancient world.  In virtually every culture, the cycle of birth-death-resurrection(re-birth) is pictured in terms of passing through waters to the afterlife or underworld and coming out of the waters to be re-born/resurrected.

For that matter, it might be helpful just to look at the history of the world.  Water is virtually universal as a symbol of birth, creation, and resurrection.

Jarrod
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But the energy of the flesh had everything to do with Issac being born naturally.
Isaac was born based upon God's oath and his promise of grace to Abraham, which is a type of our spiritual birth.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 6:13-18~"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:"
Quote from: Paul a true minister of the grace of God
Galatians 4:22-31~"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
To be brief, Isaac was born by God's promise to Abraham, and Ismael was born by the energy of Abraham's flesh. Sarah's womb was DEAD, just as all sinners are dead in sins and trespasses. Isaac was born according to God's oath and promise, JUST AS WE were, no different.

Now if you care to look at these scriptures in depth, let us do so. RB
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Brother, slow down, I never said it was Isaac actually being born again, what I said was it was a perfect type, or allegory of how we are born again~what I did not add, for sake of time was  the energy of the flesh had nothing to do with Issac being born naturally, it was through the promises of God and the POWER of God, that Isaac was born naturally.
But the energy of the flesh had everything to do with Issac being born naturally.  God just extended or renewed the fertility of Abraham and Sarah so that Isaac could be born naturally by the "energy of the flesh". The event happened quite naturally in the joining of the Abraham's sperm cell and Sarah's egg through the usual process of Abraham's implanting the sperm cell.
Quote from: RB
Neither is any person born again through the energy of their flesh, or by any power except the power of God regenerating them based on his promises of grace and His holy oath to the seed of His Son~who are a chosen generation a special people to God, who loved them from everlasting and will to everlasting, world without end, alone because He willed to do so
You are pretty close on that, but you get it all messed up and confused with your false doctrines of Total Depravity, Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement.
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Euphemisms?  Do you mean symbols?
No, I mean Euphemism. Water is not a symbol of anything in John 3:1-15. And the assignment of born of water to mean physical birth is not a symbol it is meant as a euphemism.  And if water is a symbol in Jesus' phrase "being born with water and Spirit" in His talk with Nicodemus, then what does that make Spirit?
Quote from: W_S
The Bible associates water with birth and creation in multiple places.
Really? Show me one place where the Bible associates water with birth.

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It says you are insulting another member because you cannot cogently and rationally deal with their post
I did that in Reply#16.

When you can come from a position of confidence, insults would be un-necessary.   But you seem to fall back on them frequently.  And that doesn't speak to me at all.  All it illustrates is your less-than-civil behavior when you don't like something someone else says.  And since you are a Mod, that makes it two times worse, because you are also abusing your authority.
The "insult" you're talking about is literally just me pointing to you as an example of the thinking among Republicans that causes immigrants to join the other party.  That's not an insult; that's an example. 

If you feel insulted when someone points out what you said/did, that problem is on your end.

Jarrod
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A euphemism born of water for physical birth is never used anywhere else in the bible.  It was not a euphemism then; it is not a euphemism now. It is simply a construct by those who refuse to accept the connection of the water of John3 for the water of baptism, which it most naturally is.
4WD, the question which Nicodemus asked had never been asked before, at least not in the scripture. If Nicodemus had not ask the question which he did, then it is so plain our Lord Jesus would have never mention water in any sense whatsoever, and we know this by following the context of this brief discourse where water is never mention again. Consider, please:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST THE GREATEST OF ALL PROPHETS/TEACHERS hear ye him
John 3:6-8~"That which is born of the flesh is flesh ( Water~RB) ; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (a new creation within a man unseen by human eyes, known only by the fruits of the Spirit~RB)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Nicodemus trying to understand how this is possible without reentering his mother's womb and being born AGAIN....even if that was possible, it still would come out FLESH/SINFUL at enmity against God!~RB)

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
We ask, why is water not mentioned again with the Spirit? Should be an easy answer, but it is not, for some labor hard to protect the doctrine that they have been taught.

Water is not mentioned again in verse 8? because the Lord told us why: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh". Water is the first birth we all experience when we came from our mother's womb, when the water breaks the baby IS BORN, or will be very soon. But, it comes forth as FLESH, which is sinful and at enmity against the God of heaven, regardless of how cute and innocent they may look, TIME will prove just how sinful they are, and without any biblical training they all will turn out to be devils in human flesh, when left to themselves, and even with good training they still may turn out to be very wicked, without the new birth, and even that does not rid them of their sinful flesh~yet, the new man has power to mortify the flesh and have victory over it, but never can eradicate the flesh~impossible.

The new birth is a birth performed by the Spirit of God alone upon whomsoever He will.
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You have got to be kidding.  That was not Isaac being born again.  That was Isaac being born the first time -- PHYSICALLY.

I seriously doubt that you were conceived in a woman by a man, both beyond their years of fertility through the direct intercession of God.
Brother, slow down, I never said it was Isaac actually being born again, what I said was it was a perfect type, or allegory of how we are born again~what I did not add, for sake of time was  the energy of the flesh had nothing to do with Issac being born naturally, it was through the promises of God and the POWER of God, that Isaac was born naturally. Every person that has experienced the new birth, has experienced this because of God's promises and His holy oath....this is the truth of God's word~this is the gospel of the word of God, any other is another gospel, and is under the curse of God, for preaching another gospel, other than the one that alone honors the oath and promises of God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
Quote
I seriously doubt that you were conceived in a woman by a man, both beyond their years of fertility through the direct intercession of God.
Never said I was, and never said Issac was not, because he was, which proved that he was not born through the energy of their flesh, but alone by God's promises of grace to them and His power alone.

Neither is any person born again through the energy of their flesh, or by any power except the power of God regenerating them based on his promises of grace and His holy oath to the seed of His Son~who are a chosen generation a special people to God, who loved them from everlasting and will to everlasting, world without end, alone because He willed to do so
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When you can come from a position of confidence, insults would be un-necessary.
Without getting into this discussion at the moment, these words spoken by Cobalt1959 are so true.

At the moment, I'm just reading and pondering before speaking. RB
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True but they are not being done cause the Americans want to... and they are not being done as well.

That is not a racist comment... it is fact

But an uncontrolled border is very dangerous. Very because we have no idea who is coming or why

I am not working the job I work because I want to.  My wife is not working the job she wants to.  We work them to earn a living.  When you give a person a choice between getting a job, or paying them to sit at home, the majority of people given that choice will sit at home.  We are paying millions of people to sit at home in an economy, post-Covid, that doesn't have enough people to even accomplish basic supply needs in the supply chain.

When you let people into your country unchallenged, and then supply them with a job, what you are actually saying to them is "It's perfectly acceptable to break our laws if you wish.  We obviously don't care."  And we broadcast this to the extent that nothing is done about child trafficking, and in some cases murder, because secular society seems to not care about the problem at all.  "Citizens won't do those jobs" is never a good excuse to allow illegal aliens to trample the borders.  I don't believe in closing the border.  I believe in tightly monitoring it and only letting in a certain number of people per year, legally.  And if entitlements were changed drastically in this country and people had to work or not have food to eat, things would change drastically.
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