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Many have and do believe, that the angel of the Lord, and the Archangel Michael, are titles of pre-incarnate Christ. As either divine attributes are given to them, or they share common titles, purpose, and or functions. The resurrection of the dead, being one that ties Michael and our Lord Jesus Christ directly together.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jud 1:9  Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Michael is the archangel, who is tied directly to the resurrections of the saved and the wicked in the book of Daniel. It is the voice of Jesus Christ our Lord who calls the dead back to life from their graves. Scripture testifies that the Lord Himself (Jesus Christ) will do so at the resurrection with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. 
Christian Politics Forum / Re: You’ve Been Gaslighted
« Last post by Texas Conservative on Today at 10:03:51 »
Ballots are worth more than votes.
I am responding, IN BLUE, to your reply to my comment within the quote below

Quote from: Rella on Today at 06:42:05
But do YOU have any idea why man was created, looking as he does, upright like an ape... but without hair for protection from the elements...

I am rarely without ANY ideas. ;)

Scientifically, being relatively hairless allows us to travel further distances without overheating, and being bipedal lets us use our hands and walk at the same time.  From a design perspective, these are features you would give to something that you expect to be nomadic/itinerant.  Biblically, early Genesis strongly supports the idea that man was designed to be nomadic, and mostly condemns the practice of setting down stationary cities and taking up farming full-time (see Cain v. Abel).

Alright. That makes a certain amount of sense, unless those nomads were wandering well into the frigid climates of the earth, where they would have need to be encumbered with clothing... most likely animal skins to avoid not only freezing but also frost bite. Such would make easy movement not so easy. (Another topic for another days is why through out the nomadic types of people... say the indigenous from the Americas, or Europe or Africa... et al.

The link has a great list of Nomadic people. I admit to being clueless as to where original man fits in among the names. Though my Neanderthal ancestors are among the listed.

It also does not touch on the fact that .... ( You do not believe in the literal account of Adam and Eve right?)  that the author told us Adam and Eve were given the garden for their permanent home and had no need to wander about until they broke the rules and were kicked out. So they were not created to be nomads... initially.

  Quote from: Rella on Today at 06:42:05
Why did He create man to look like this when it is obvious that given the ability other animals had the ability to talk?

DO NOT go there with the statement that those things were allegories, parables, or never happened.......
Where do you get the idea that other animals spoke?  Most of them don't have all the physical parts to do so (lips, tongues, larynx), and the ones that do, for the most part don't have the intelligence for much more than mimicry.

It isn't clear at all that any animals spoke.  The opposite is true - it is clear that they never have!

Poppycock and peanuts. You either simply do not believe your bible, for Numbers 22:18 says
28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”

Are you saying that the author lied about God?

Then Genesis 3: 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Are you saying that a man went down to the party store and rented a snake costume to wear to entice Eve?  ::whistle:: The author further tells us that God....14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: So all indications are that a serpent, who one time move upright had the ability to talk or else this author also said God lied.

TRUE STORY... About the animal kingdom.

When I was in grade school I had a baby sitter who had family across the street from us. Mrs Bowl was her name.
Well, when the family would go away, Mrs Bowl and her  husband would stay in that house to watch the parrot that lived there.

Now I am certain you with your scientific mind will say a parrot mimics and does not think.  HA!

This one stay, Mrs. Bowl had made breakfast and called her husband to eat. As was the habit, the parrot also ate breakfast at the same kitchen table sitting on the back of the chair, with the food in it's bowl on the table.  And once they were well into eating... (it is appropriate to know that this bird always called everyone by their first name... i.e. Mr. Bowl's name was Alex) 

Anyway , they were well into breakfast not talking when all of a sudden, out of the birds mouth came "Good breakfast Mrs. Bowl.

OK you say he was just mimicking what he had heard at some point.....

Then explain this one.

The owners were paid a house call by their minister and had a very nice visit. When he ( the minister ) got up to leave and was approaching the door he turned and asked the Lanes (The owners of the parrot) if they could pray . Yes, yes came the answer so they all were standing there with their heads bowed and the minister speaking.

The parrot who was around all of a sudden piped up wit "What the hell is going on here."!

Make no mistake.....Those that do speak will. Those that God has a purpose of speaking will also. And... yes. Anyone with any animals that they are close with will tell you they also have feelings of happiness and sadness and many do cry.

Quote from: Rella on Today at 06:42:05
This idea that God made man only in his spiritual image... which is what is suggested time and again... simply is too weird for words.

90% of people can't even define the word spiritual, and the ones who can don't agree on its definition.  So... what are they really saying?

That is because 90% of the people cannot comprehend that man also is a triune being the same as God.

To them, if you talk spirit or spiritual is is all about if they do or dont believe in "things that go bump in the night".

It keeps their lives simple and uncomplicated.

Are they saying that man is like God because we have logic, intellect, self-awareness... sentience?  If so, they're probably right.  That's the difference between man and animals that is immediately noticeable.

I am sure that would be a scientific definition.

Quote from: Rella on Today at 06:42:05
For that means that the spirituality of God also incorporates all the evil and truly bad men since the author wrote "In the beginning." OR is proof that we are simply the Pawns in the Hand of God who created us to .... well, that is for another day.

Well, what do you mean by spiritual?  Based on these couple sentences, not the same thing as me.

Spiritual... simply stated to me is regarding humans would be relating to  the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things like the human body.

We know that God is Spirit. ( As we are spirits who have a soul and live in a body) (Some reverse the soul and spirit idea and the bible is not clear as it refers to the fact that the spirit, as well as the soul goes back to God the moment we die.

I say spirit first because God wants to “sanctify” or transform our spirit, soul, and body into the image of Christ (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18). But this transformation starts with our “spirit,” not our soul or body. Our spirit is the inner most part of us.

When physical death occurs, the spirit and soul are separated from the physical body. According to the Old Testament the spirit of believers returns to the Lord at death. “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The physical body is buried in the ground (“the dust will return to the earth”), but the spirit of the believer “returns to God who gave it.” When Rachel died, the Bible says, “And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni” (Genesis 35:18). Based on other verses in the Bible, the departing of Rachel’s soul implies her soul (and spirit) departed to go be with the Lord in Abraham’s bosom or Paradise (Luke 16:22; 23:43).

 ::frown:: ::frown:: ::frown:: ::frown:: OK I'll stop as this also is for another day.

 I know this is not explanation. I have never stopped to consider this fact, just that like faith.... I believe and accept... but cannot explain.

I will say this...  there is no judgment, no good or evil, without intelligence and logic.  Perhaps that comes close to answering your question?


Rella, here is my confession of Jesus Christ the most important doctrine in all of the word of God.

Man arrives in this world as an ass, depraved and deceived, and leaves the same (Job 11:12; Jeremiah 17:9; Eccl 3:19-21). Not even angels have flesh, since He created them spirits.....(Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7; 2:16; Luke 24:39). But Jehovah God, revealed first to Moses, came into this world as a Man to redeem His elect people. The invisible, incomprehensible, and infinite God was made flesh to bodily, physically die for us. He was not a phantom or spirit, for He said, “A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me have.” The Almighty Creator God took on the flesh of mere human creatures well below His own angels. The infinite God of heaven became intimately connected to an infant of poverty in the earth. He that the heaven of heavens cannot contain limited Himself to a child of a poor couple in a stable. Manifest and Clearly revealed to the eye, mind, or judgment; open to view or comprehension; obvious. The Word became flesh to declare God, and the Word of life was manifested (John 1:14,18; I John 1:2). Jesus is the brightness of His glory and the express image of God far above the angels (Hebrews 1:1-4). Men and devils have sought for 2000 years to compromise or deny the full deity of Jesus Christ. We believe the King James Bible; we reject all other versions in English as being inferior or frauds. Therefore, we reject Christ-haters who corrupt this clause by changing “God” to Who, He, or Which. There is nothing vague here; the great mystery of godliness is the incarnation of full Deity as a man. Jesus being manifest in the flesh has little meaning, for without flesh there is no Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus was not truly manifest in the flesh; God manifest in the flesh was Jesus; we MUST know the difference. The Son of God was not manifest in flesh; God manifest in flesh was the Son; know the difference.

We totally deny the eternal sonship of Jesus as a blasphemous begotten god imagined by Origen. But God manifest in the flesh is indeed meaningful, for it describes the glorious incarnation of God. An eternally generated son was not manifest in the flesh; Jehovah God was manifest in the flesh.

There is no begotten god as the NASV and NWT in John 1:18; there is a begotten Son named Jesus. Here is Bible doctrine: God the Word was made flesh in the person of Jesus (John 1:1-3,14,18; Romans 1:3). God’s power combined two natures in one man, by a virgin; He was the Son of God (Luke 1:30-35). Of course, even elementary believers know about the virgin birth, but it is indeed a profound fact.

The Lord Jesus Christ~the Godman~had the fullness of the Godhead in a flesh body (Colossians 2:9). The full mystery is the true God, Jehovah, was the Father of the Son, and He was the Son~few understand this full mystery. Colossians 2:2~That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Jesus Christ is God blessed forever, Immanuel, the Mighty God (Romans 9:5; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Matthew 1:23). Such a stupendous truth, God as a man, cannot be found in nature or the reasoning of sane men~just look at men like GB on this forum and their confused mind concerning the Godhead and its mystery. Insane men have reasoned all sort of perverse things about gods and lords, but not this blessed truth. He partook of literal and true flesh and blood, for He partook of our very own nature (Hebrews 2:14-17)~GB, PLEASE noticed my confession and stop denying that we do not believe that Jehovah God humbled Himself and took upon him flesh and blood for the redemption of fallen man who did not deserve his love and grace.  We do confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, contrary to first-century heretics (Ist John 4:1-6). Proving this glorious doctrine has been under attack since the days of Jesus Christ~all who reject this truth are antichrist will be rejected at that day.

Jesus our Advocate gloriously mediates between God and men (Ist Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 2:17-18; 4:12-16). According to his HUMANITY, this is easily understood. You asked about this above.

It is at the cross we must see God upholding humanity while God forsakes the Man for our salvation. The perfect Substitute for our corrupt estate is the crowning jewel of this aspect of Christ’s gospel. He chose to redeem flesh, so we rightly assume we shall be most exalted of His creatures in heaven. God in the flesh was conceived in a virgin, was born in a stable, laid in a manger, circumcised the eighth day, held in the temple, debated with doctors of the law at twelve, obeyed his parents, baptized in Jordan, tempted by the devil, read the scriptures at Nazareth, healed the sick, preached the gospel, cleansed the temple, rebuked devils, slept during storms and silenced storms, wept at a cemetery before raising the dead, put on trial for his life, mocked, scourged by Romans, crucified, buried, rose from the dead after three days, ascended into heaven, sat down as Prince of all kings! THIS IS THE SAVIOR I'M TRUSTING IN and this is my confession of who he is~again the most important doctrine in all of the word of God, none no greater.
Rella~let me continue detailing my confession of Jesus Christ~and the mystery of the Godhead, and a mystery it is per Paul's own confession from 1st Timothy 3:16

I believe in the biblical doctrine of the three in one~in the work of creation, and the redemption of God's chosen people~the church of the Living God.
The incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ does not deny or weaken the Trinity at all. It establishes it. Only the ignorant or malicious will accuse the incarnate Sonship position of denying the Trinity. The Trinity of the Bible is superior to the speculative Trinity of the Nicene Creed and followers. The Bible makes all three Persons without any distinction in their nature whatsoever. The Bible knows nothing of “God of God” and other philosophical speculations of men. Certainly, the bible knows nothing of a begotten god, which confuses the Trinity into paganism. Yet, Rome, and even John Calvin, and others (4WD) accuse us of the straw man argument of anti-Trinitarianism. Rome/EOC believes we must use Origen’s, rather than God’s, words for the Trinity to be orthodox!

Scripture teaches us of one God.  ONE Supreme Being~ Who has chosen to reveal Himself to us as three.  (Deuteronomy  6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 1st Corinthians 4:8-6 8:4, etc.)

God is self-subsistent and independent of others; He is eternal in both directions (Exodus 3:14; Psalms 90:2). The nature of God is that complete collection of attributes that makes Him distinctly God (Galatians 4:8). Three Persons participate in this single Divine nature without any degree of difference whatsoever. The three Persons are the Highest, the Word, and the Spirit (Luke 1:32; John 1:1; Isaiah 48:16). And the three Persons are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matthew 3:16-17; 28:19-20; 2nd Corinthians 13:14). And they are Spirit, Lord, and God (I Cor 12:4-6), or Ancient of Days and Son of man (Daniel 7:13). The doctrine of a three-in-one God is revealed plainly in Scripture (I John 5:7), though begotten god advocates deny this glorious testimony in their annual Holy Bible sequels. The Word and Spirit are wholly “I AM THAT I AM~and Jesus with his complex natures.” The Word is not what the Father begat! Jesus, not Emmanuel is what the Father begat~The Word, Who became flesh in the Lord Jesus Christ, was fully God (John 1:1 cp Colossians 2:9).

The Incarnation is the Key~next.....RB
We know that Jesus, before time was called The Word.
Rella, before Jesus was conceived and born around two thousand years ago, according to God's testimony, there was no Son of God. The Word in the beginning was God, period. Only in the eternal purpose of God did God have a Son, just as he had a chosen seed, even though they were not born.

The Incarnation is the Key~The Word, Who is God, joined a human nature in the person of Jesus of Nazareth (John 1:1-3,14). This is the great mystery of godliness~God Himself was manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16).

Jesus Christ is also known as Emmanuel~God with us (Isaiah 7:14 cp Matthew 1:23). Jesus Christ is the human body and nature indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:8-9).

The Deity of Jesus Christ~He is truly and fully God~Scripture affirms plainly and unequivocally. The Word is God without qualification; the Word became Jesus of Nazareth by joining His flesh.

It is another straw man argument of Rome and her daughters to accuse us of denying the full deity of Jesus Christ, for it is their doctrine of a begotten god that corrupts the Bible message of His full Godhead. We only can say that Jesus Christ’s divine nature is fully Jehovah God without qualification. They must say that His divine nature is begotten and generated, yielding a begotten God. Only the ignorant or malicious accuse us of denying the full deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ had a body. Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus Christ.

The humanity of Jesus Christ~He is truly and fully man~Scripture also unequivocally teaches. Mary conceived and bore a human child similar to all other mothers (Matthew 1:18-20; Luke 2:23).

The only mediator between God and man is the man Christ Jesus (Ist Timothy 2:5 cp Job 9:32-33). God assumed flesh and blood to destroy Satan’s work and be our high priest (Hebrews 2:14-17). Jesus was made in the likeness of men after having been in the form of God (Philippians 2:5-11).

The hypostatic union is the combination of God the Word and a human nature in a single Being. God is a Spirit (John 4:24), but a human body was prepared for God to possess (Hebrews 10:5). Neither Christ’s divinity (John 8:58) nor His humanity (Hebrews 4:15) was changed by their union. But He is not fully Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour without His body (Luke 2:12; 24:39).

Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man~He possesses both complete natures. This point is very important to properly understand God’s record of His Son Jesus Christ. The attributes of one nature are often ascribed to a name derived from the other nature. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, so His Person involves divine and human characteristics. Jesus Christ fully experienced all the aspects of human growth, weakness, and temptation. Jesus Christ, referred to as God, a Spirit, purchased the church with His BLOOD (Acts 20:28). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, DIED (Galatians 2:20). But only His humanity died (Ist Timothy 1:17; 6:16). Jesus, the Son of God, was OMNIPRESENT (John 3:13). Only His Deity could be so (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus, the Son of man, WAS WITH GOD (John 6:62). Only His divinity could be so (John 1:1). Jesus, the Son, is SUBJECT TO GOD (Ist Corinthians1:28). Only His humanity will be subject to God. Jesus, the Son, had a MOTHER NAMED MARY (Matt 1:21). Mary is not the mother of God! Jesus claimed to be BEFORE ABRAHAM (John 8:58). Only His Deity was eternal (Micah 5:2). Jesus grew in WISDOM AND STATURE (Luke 2:52). Only His humanity was ignorant (Colossians 2:3). Jesus slept (Mark 4:38), but only in His humanity; for His Deity could not sleep (Psalm 121:4). Jesus thirsted, ate, and did all the things a human nature does, but which Deity cannot do.

Consider our use of names or titles regarding actions or relationships prior to that name or title. We may say, “Abraham left Ur of the Chaldees.” But it was truly Abram, who left (Genesis 12:1,4). We may say, “The apostle Paul persecuted the church,” but he was Saul at the time (Acts 9:1). We may say of our wives, “My wife began kindergarten when she was only four years old.” We may say of our parents, “My father was born in Winston-Salem in 1917.” We may say, “Joe died and was buried” (Luke 16:22). However, we know his soul still lives IF he was a child of God. With a retrospective view, we may Scripturally ascribe actions of the Word to Jesus Christ.

Christian Politics Forum / Re: You’ve Been Gaslighted
« Last post by Jaime on Today at 08:14:08 »
The Dems were listening to the polls as well. I would imagine a similar Democrat complacency would have been on play. I don’t think the GOP voters were that complacent. All I talked to realized we are hanging by a thread. The GOP compllcency was touted as Trump fatigue, which I mostly doubt. How could Brandon have  been a remedy? It wasn’t GOP complacency vs Dem hopelessness. It was exquisitely planned and executed cheating in many forms like there was in 2020.
Christian Politics Forum / Re: You’ve Been Gaslighted
« Last post by 4WD on Today at 07:39:59 »
From the article: First, every poll in the country showed a gigantic GOP landslide victory- ranging from red wave, to red tsunami. Polls even showed women moved 32 points from September to October in favor of the GOP.

I think that perhaps part of the problem was the too many people who would have voted republican believed those polls and then got complacent and simply didn't bother to vote because they thought it was "in the bag".  That is not to say that I don't believe that the election was rigged.  I think it is clear that there were shenanigans at play in the Maricopa County, AZ voting. And unfortunately, I don't think anything will be done about that.
Christian Politics Forum / Deleted as a duplicate
« Last post by Rella on Today at 07:39:42 »
Deleted as a duplicate
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