author=Cobalt1959 link=topic=74624.msg1055156319#msg1055156319 date=1581757767]
With Mosaic Law, which is what you are actually attempting to follow, you don't get the option of not doing it right.
My argument is with religions who preach the wholesale rejection of the Word's of Christ, both as the Creator God of the world, and as the Messiah who became a man and walked the earth.
One entire collective message of the Bible is that God's Ways are superior and more beneficial than man's ways.
But Jesus said men love darkness. And it is clear in the historical context of the Scriptures, that religious voices have worked tirelessly to create their own path, a path in which Many of God's Judgments are excluded, since Cain killed Abel. You openly admit you do not believe in many of the Judgments of God. You blame your unbelief on Moses by constantly implying that God's Laws are from Moses. It's a play on words to make you more at ease with implying God is a liar when it comes to much of HIS Teaching before HE became a man.
Your post here is a perfect example of why I stay away from the religions of the land you promote.
Your preaching :
"you don't get the option of not doing it right"
is a perfect example of the shear ignorance of modern religions. The very reason why the Priesthood was created was because God knows men don't always get it right. The VERY REASON for "MERCY" and "Grace" is because God knows we don't always get it right. The very existence of the Passover Lamb is because God knows we don't always get it right.
This is arguably the most ridiculous statement made on this forum. And that is saying a lot. I don't know where you get your religion from, but my advice to you is the same I give to members of SDA. Put down the religious pamphlets you are force fed, stop sucking up to some preacher for your salvation, and live by the Word's of God like Jesus said man should do.
And if you don't have faith enough to trust His Words, at least don't discourage or place a stumbling block in front of those who do believe in HIM, like the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did.
Matt. 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
When it comes the Sabbath, if you were caught working on the Sabbath in the OT, you were to be put to death.
And according to the NT, if I don't drink the Blood of Jesus I am doomed to eternal destruction. That is, destruction from which there is no return.
You are happy to accept these Word's of Jesus as being Spiritual in Nature, but refuse to give the HIS Father's Word's the same respect and consideration. Why is that??? Why do you despise God's Word as unjust, while giving Jesus a pass for telling me if I don't eat HIS Flesh, I can not enter heaven?
So in reality, even though the SDA's on this board, and every other board go around telling people that they keep the Sabbath and that other people should too, they already know they are not keeping it either.
Paul knows there will be "many" who come in Christ's Name, White Washed Walls, who will try to turn HIS Children away from Him and HIS Instructions. As with Eve, there will always be the "Other" religious voices out there trying to turn us away from yielding our self to the Christ and HIS ways.
Jesus kept the Sabbath of God as the scriptures teach, and the Mainstream Preachers of HIS time accused Him of sinning as well. So far you are following in their path, not Jesus'.
I find it foolishness at best, and deceptive at most, to preach that anyone who would Honor the Christ where HIS Holy Sabbath is Concerned is either a Pharisee, or SDA. Apart from the obvious folly of this religious position, I might note that Jesus also Honored HIS Sabbath, and was neither.
Once again: Credibility. If you are telling people you are doing something, and they need to do it too, the same way, but you aren't actually doing what you say you are doing, you have no credibility.
The judgment of religious men who reject God's commandment is of little consequence to me. Fortunately for me, I also believe the Scriptures which address this very thing.
Col. 2: 16 Let no man therefore judge you
in meat, or in drink, or in respect
of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
17 Which are a shadow of things to come
; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward
in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen
, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind
You have your high days, and the Christ has HIS HOLY Days. I knew 25 years ago that if I turned to HIM and His ways, the mainstream religions of this land would ridicule me as they did Him. So far, you have proven the prophesies accurate.
It also makes you a hypocrite. Biblically, "keeping" the Sabbath, in the way that SDA's and you advocate it being kept is virtually impossible without a temple in Jerusalem, a Levitical Priesthood in place and functioning in that Temple, and the sacrificial system also being in operation.
Again, you are furthering more untruths. You have nothing but your own word's to support this part of your religion.
Secondly you are just trying to set a trap. You ask how I Honor the Christ regarding His Sabbath. If I tell you, you will accuse me of trying to tell you how to live, if I don't tell you, you accuse me of being a hypocrite.
Why??? Because you are here to justify your own religious lifestyle, not examine, understand, or prove the Will of the God of the Bible. It will do me no good I'm sure, but it is true that Jesus kept God's Holy Sabbath and never delivered one animal to the Levite Priests, and He also walked outside the temple with His Disciples in fellowship. So once again, the Christ's Word exposes your religion and the folly of your teaching, not mine. I am simply believing HIM when He tells me His Sabbath is made for man.
If you are not offering the Sabbath sacrifices, and all the other sacrifices required by Mosaic Law, you are not keeping the Sabbath at all. Ever. You are not even close.
You are no different than the Pharisee who taught that it was unlawful to take a walk on the Christ's Sabbath and pick and eat a blackberry.
Like them, You have created your own Sabbath which is unjust, and unsavory, then you Honor yourself by rejecting it. And call me a sinner for refusing to engage in such falsehoods. Just as the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' Time also called HIM a sinner for doing that which was lawful and right.
Again, you are showing who you emulate.
You've chained your faith to a work. You can claim you don't. You can use circular reasoning as to why this work needs to be performed, over and over again even though you yourself know you aren't getting it right.
Again, I believe what is written.
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever
will come after me, let him deny himself
, and take up his cross
, and follow me
I don't prescribe to your religion which preaches Jesus denies myself for me, and takes my cross and carries it for me, and follows Himself for me.
So here I am in the same place as Eve. I have God's Word giving me a Command, and I have you telling me the Command makes me blind, a hypocrite, "chained to works".
Which voice shall I heed? I will let the Scriptures answer for me and follow them.
Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses
, let us lay aside
every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us
, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith
; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Not looking unto Jesus to strive against sin for us, or to run the race for us. But to consider the examples written for our admonition and not make the same choices they did and to "walk even as Jesus walked".
And when the White Washed walls ridicule us, and call us hypocrite for following God's instructions, there is also encouragements regarding this.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood
, striving against sin
Not even close to right. So it is utterly pointless to tie your faith to a work, and it is both doing you absolutely no good and it is getting you no closer to God. Faith and service to God is not attached to any work. The Bible is abundantly clear about. Faith and service to God stem from realizing one is a sinner, repenting of that sin through accepting Christ as one's Savior, and living one's walk out through faith, and faith alone. Works won't even buy you a cup of coffee.
Paul said we are all "chained" to something.
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
I was "chained to deception", a servant of unrighteousness. Shall I not yield myself to the righteous judgments of God and stop yielding myself to my own righteousness?
Must I erase Paul's Word's as well.
Rom. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Just because you have Judged God's Sabbath as unrighteous, or Unholy, doesn't make it so.
Rom. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their
(Or your) unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid
: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
I understand I am bucking centuries of ancient religious traditions, just as Paul was. So I know that you will most likely reject anything that doesn't agree with your religious tradition. But it is still my hope that you might consider, one day, that God's Word's are truly superior to yours. HIS Ways are Righteous, while yours are not. His Judgments are Perfect, while yours are actually evil. And that God is not the liar, but religious men are the liar.
And if you ever come to this place, you will find that God's Word, even the ones you don't yet understand, are Holy. And then will consider in what way you can honor Him in it, since HE is the one who brings you to Christ.
I'll leave you with the Word's the Spirit of Christ inspired Paul to write.
Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy
, acceptable unto God
, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: (or it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind
, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
It's not about me telling you what to do. It's about the difference between what the religions of the land preach, and what the Scriptures actually say.