The Antichrist Slideshow

[James Rondon]

Click here.

[CSloan]

\"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour....If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas....\"

-- C. H. Spurgeon

[marc]

Here's how John identified the anti-Christ

2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

A bit less senstional--and less like the pope--than the slide show.  

I admit I turned the slideshow off when it started the accusations about Satanic rites in the Vatican.  Such accusations do no good for anyone.

Reminds me of a preacher who used to host a show at a station where I worked.  he said that he had grown up a Catholic, but had visited the Vatican, and while kneeling to pray suddenly heard the voices of thousands of demons all around him.  He had then left the Catholic church.

This man also talked about how the government spyed on people through cable TV, often went several days without showering or changing his clothes, and could have a long conversation with you without ever blinking.

In short, he was obviously--to anyone who knew him--in need of mental help.  

I think that we, as Christians, need to be careful about damaging our witness by getting involved in such things.[/color]

[CSloan]

I admit I turned the slideshow off when it started the accusations about Satanic rites in the Vatican.  Such accusations do no good for anyone.

Unless they are true.



-Charles[/color]

[marc]

We need to be less gullible.

The preacher mentioned above also once talked about how Satan's influence was so strong with young people that he was shocked to turn on a college football game and see a large number of the students doing the Satanic hand sign for the camera.  This was a University of Texas game he was watching.

We really need to be less gullible.

[Lee Freeman]

I admit I turned the slideshow off when it started the accusations about Satanic rites in the Vatican.  Such accusations do no good for anyone.

Unless they are true.



-Charles

You're not serious, are you Charles? Have you ever been to a Catholic service?

The church of Saint Francis and Mother Theresa practices Satanic rites?

Like marc, I'd prefer to stick with the biblical denition of \"antichrists\" from I and II John.

Pax.[/color]

[CSloan]

We need to be less gullible.

Indeed we do. (Matthew 24:4-5)

[James Rondon]

Like marc, I'd prefer to stick with the biblical denition of \"antichrists\" from I and II John.

An antichrist is one who: \"denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father\" (1 John 2:23, KJV)... What does it mean to deny the Son?

[marc]

John tells what he means by this in the verse I quoted above.


Misrepresenting the faith of other believers in Christ is a serious thing.

[James Rondon]

[By the way, although I am rather skeptical about some of the conclusions that this slideshow made (i.e. the bent cross, etc.), the quotes seemingly speak for themselves.]

[James Rondon]

John tells what he means by this in the verse I quoted above.

One can acknowledge Jesus, and one can acknowledge another Jesus. When you read the quotes from various Popes, and the Roman Catholic institution, some of which were included on this slideshow, which Jesus do you think that they are acknowledging?

\"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.\" -- Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302

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Misrepresenting the faith of other believers in Christ is a serious thing.

Agreed.[/color]

[CSloan]

Heres some disturbing images:



...the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
-2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

[mike]

marc:
We really need to be less gullible.

:amen:

We damage the cause of Christ in the world when we agree with foolish statements.

Mike[/color]

[marc]

Two questions here:  Where did he claim his authority originated, and is this claim still made?

And does this at all have to do with the question of whether Jesus came in the flesh.

To me, if you're going to identify someone with Satan, you should have some really strong evidence.

[CSloan]

To me, if you're going to identify someone with Satan, you should have some really strong evidence.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

-2 Corinthians 11:14-15

[extranos]

I'm of the opinion that there are anti-Christs, by which I mean those who work against the Church, and then there is the Anti-Christ, which is the Office of the Papacy.  
There is ample evidence of the problems that lie within the official teachings of the RCC.
I believe that those who consider the Roman Catholic Church to be a benign or positive influence in Christendom are not looking with open eyes at it.

[marc]

And these problems mean they deny that Christ came in the flesh?  

Have you watched the slide show, btw?

[marc]

Of course it's not just the pope.



(I shouldn't have done that.   :angel: )

[James Rondon]

Marc, is the definition of \"antichrist\" and \"spirit of antichrist\" limited to denying that Jesus \"came in the flesh\"? And, regardless of this, what does it mean to deny that He came in the flesh?

[marc]

Does the Bible offer any other definitions?  I don't know of any.

As to the definition, the words themselves are self-explanatory, but the background is found in gnosticism, which John wrote specifically to combat.

Here's the way the Marsh Commentary explains it:

This belief system holds that the physical world is inherently evil, while the spiritual world was inherently good. They believed in the deity of Jesus, but they would not believe that He came in a real physical body. They also believed that they could do any sin they wanted with their bodies as long as they kept their spirits pure.

(no, I have no idea what the Marsh Commentary is either, but this statement seems concise and accurate, based on what I know of gnosticism.)[/color]

[Bon Voyage]

Bush is prolly the one who precedes the anti-Christ  ----->

[Lee Freeman]

I'm of the opinion that there are anti-Christs, by which I mean those who work against the Church, and then there is the Anti-Christ, which is the Office of the Papacy.  
There is ample evidence of the problems that lie within the official teachings of the RCC.
I believe that those who consider the Roman Catholic Church to be a benign or positive influence in Christendom are not looking with open eyes at it.

That's exactly what I used to believe; until I started reading actual RCC literature, watching EWTN, and talking to my friends who are Catholic. While I certainly don't endorse everything the RCC teaches I believe that calling the Pope or the RCC the antichrist is going a bit far. I've just started reading a book now by Benedict XVI (written before his election) Truth and Tolerance: Christian Belief and World Religions; IMO Ratzinger/Benedict is quite the theologian.

Not much chance of a fruitful dialogue with these people if they hear us calling their church or its pope the antichrist.

Pax vobiscum.[/color]

[tidbit]

James,  I refer you to Jude 9-11

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, \"The Lord rebuke you!\" 10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

   11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

If I were you, I would be more careful with my accusations.[/color]

[James Rondon]

James,  I refer you to Jude 9-11

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, \"The Lord rebuke you!\" 10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

   11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

If I were you, I would be more careful with my accusations.[/color]

What accusations would those be, Tidbit?

[Dennis]

The slideshow makes clear at the beginning that you must rely on the KJV.  It then relies on a novel as one of its authorities for the alleged satanic ceremonies.  I quit at that point.

[CSloan]

If I were you, I would be more careful with my accusations.

What accusations would those be, Tidbit?

I was about to ask the same thing.

-Charles[/color]

[tidbit]

James,  I refer you to Jude 9-11

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, \"The Lord rebuke you!\" 10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

   11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

If I were you, I would be more careful with my accusations.

What accusations would those be, Tidbit?[/color]

don't play dumb, James.  It does not become you.

[James Rondon]

I'm not playing dumb. What accusations?

[Lee Freeman]

That website was pure anti-Catholic propaganda.

I would encourage anyone who wants to know what the RCC really believes and teaches to pick up a copy of the catechism or tune in to EWTN, rather than rely upon a slanted web-site like that which has an agenda.

Pax.

[James Rondon]

The slideshow makes clear at the beginning that you must rely on the KJV.  It then relies on a novel as one of its authorities for the alleged satanic ceremonies.  I quit at that point.

I don't agree with, nor advocate everything on this slideshow. I've already alluded to that earlier. Nevertheless, there are several things on there that one should not overlook... Such as the quotes from Popes and other Roman Catholic sources.

\"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.\" -- Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302

[/color]

[James Rondon]

James,

As a former Catholic, I can truly attest that many who are reared in this faith and reiligon love God very much and desire to do what's true.

I did not read the entire slideshow, but did skim through all the pages.
Let's not give Satan more power than he deserves. This was a very strong statement against the Catholic church.

I agree with Tidbit, I would be more careful as well. Generalizing with such a broad stroke is never a good thing.


JAIA

When did I \"generalize with such a broad stroke\", JAIA?

[Dennis]

\"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.\" -- Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302

[/color]

So every group that believes they are the only ones going to heaven is the antichrist?

Don't we have better things to do?

[James Rondon]

That website was pure anti-Catholic propaganda.

I would encourage anyone who wants to know what the RCC really believes and teaches to pick up a copy of the catechism or tune in to EWTN, rather than rely upon a slanted web-site like that which has an agenda.

Pax.

What do you think about this quote, Lee?

\"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.\" -- Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302

[/color]

[marc]

I posted this concerning this quote a few pages back.  You may have missed it:

Two questions here:  Where did he claim his authority originated, and is this claim still made?

[/color]

[James Rondon]

\"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.\" -- Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302

So every group that believes they are the only ones going to heaven is the antichrist?

Don't we have better things to do?[/color]

There is much more to it than that. And there are many other quotes that we could deal with, such as those which assign Mary as mediator, advocate, and co-redeemer.

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[I wonder if we were discussing the Watchtower Society how different this discussion would be?...]