Christian Forums

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

There are folks here who think along those lines. I'm not one of them but they are here.

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 17:02:43

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

I am not Non-trinitarian - it is a blasphemous doctrine of demons.

Quote from: Sinead on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 23:45:32
I am not Non-trinitarian - it is a blasphemous doctrine of demons.

Yes indeed I think I may get to agree with you on quite a few things on here Sinead. Not only is it blasphemous, but you called it a doctrine of demons. These Oneness and anti-Christ heretics(I don't mean to offend anyone here)have been trying to displace Christ from his heavenly throne for centuries. To deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is to make you anti-Christ. And to deny the Godhood of Jesus Christ is to deny the Christian doctrine altogether. I know we are not supposed to call people on here heretics, but if there be divisions among you there must surely be heresies.

Quote from: fish153 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 23:08:08

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 17:02:43

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 00:05:27

Quote from: fish153 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 23:08:08

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 17:02:43

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 14:01:36

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 00:05:27

Quote from: fish153 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 23:08:08

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 17:02:43

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 14:37:24

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 14:01:36

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 00:05:27

Quote from: fish153 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 23:08:08

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 17:02:43

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:01:54

Well of course, I'd have to disagree with you there.  Those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (The Word who is God became flesh) are of the spirit of antichrist.  That is a denial of the divinity of Christ.  Those are the true apostates. ("even denying the very Lord that bought them"--denying that Jesus is God is a very serious offense).

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

I wonder who it is then that actually "denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?

Maybe you should ask yourself why the Apostles spoke so much about his human nature and not once about him having divine nature.

Maybe then you will start to understand the real Jesus Christ and not a three headed monster.

Insight

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:52:36

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:01:54

Well of course, I'd have to disagree with you there.  Those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (The Word who is God became flesh) are of the spirit of antichrist.  That is a denial of the divinity of Christ.  Those are the true apostates. ("even denying the very Lord that bought them"--denying that Jesus is God is a very serious offense).

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

I wonder who it is then that actually "denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?

Maybe you should ask yourself why the Apostles spoke so much about his human nature and not once about him having divine nature.

Maybe then you will start to understand the real Jesus Christ and not a three headed monster.

Insight

You are completely incorrect Insight.  The Gospel of John was expressly written to show the Divinity of Jesus.  That is why it is unique and begins with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" (John 1:1)

You'd have to be wearing spiritual blinders not to see many, many references to the Divinity of Christ made by the Apostles.  You are looking at things naturally, in your own understanding--so of course, just like others using their own finite understanding (like the JW's) speak of a "3 headed monster".  Jude says this:

"Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them". (Jude 10)

"These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit". (Jude 19)

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:52:36

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:01:54

Well of course, I'd have to disagree with you there.  Those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (The Word who is God became flesh) are of the spirit of antichrist.  That is a denial of the divinity of Christ.  Those are the true apostates. ("even denying the very Lord that bought them"--denying that Jesus is God is a very serious offense).

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

I wonder who it is then that actually "denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?

Maybe you should ask yourself why the Apostles spoke so much about his human nature and not once about him having divine nature.

Maybe then you will start to understand the real Jesus Christ and not a three headed monster.

Insight


What do you believe then?  Who do you believe Jesus is or was?  Also, why and how do you believe you have greater insight that most other people on this subject?

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:52:36

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:01:54

Well of course, I'd have to disagree with you there.  Those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (The Word who is God became flesh) are of the spirit of antichrist.  That is a denial of the divinity of Christ.  Those are the true apostates. ("even denying the very Lord that bought them"--denying that Jesus is God is a very serious offense).

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

I wonder who it is then that actually "denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?

Maybe you should ask yourself why the Apostles spoke so much about his human nature and not once about him having divine nature.

Maybe then you will start to understand the real Jesus Christ and not a three headed monster.

Insight

You might like to show us where John speaks of Jesus having a divine "nature".  That is Jesus sharing in Yahweh's Immortal Essence?   

I said...

Quote

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

And you took off like a Trinitarian rocket to John 1:1.  Maybe you should read the posts more carefully next time. 

The irony in you quoting Jude at me, is found in your inability to reconcile and explain coherently how Jesus, being in sins flesh (Rom 8:3), and yet also simultaneously "dwelling in light unapproachable which no man has seen or can see 1 Tim 6:16   

Maybe after your attempt to show that which cannot be explained or understood; go back to Jude and take personal heed to its warning.

May you be given ears to hear.

Insight

Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

Quote from: John Zain on Sat Nov 05, 2011 - 13:05:05

Another way to look at who Jesus really is

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” (Matthew 1:21)
This "Jesus" is the Giver of eternal life (John 4:14, 5:21, 6:27, 10:27-28, 11:25, 14:6, 17:2, etc.).
"... (He) will be called the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:32)
"... that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)
"... His name is called the Word of God." (Revelation 19:13)

From the beginning, before the world was created, Jesus was with Father God
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him ...
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him ...
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us ..." (John 1:1-14)
"And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was."  (John 17:5)
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life
... that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us" (1 John 1:1-2)

Also before the world was created, God's elect were chosen
"... He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ..." (Ephesians 1:4)
"... God from the beginning chose you for salvation ..." (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
"... who has saved us and called us with a holy calling ... according to His own purpose
and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began ..." (2 Timothy 1:9)
And at some point, Father God gives the elect to Jesus ...
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44)
(Also see John 6:37, 6:39, 6:45, 6:65, 10:29, 17:2, 17:24, Matthew 15:13.)

A plural God created everything
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ...
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" (Genesis 1:1, 26)
Was there a "Royal We of Majesty" during Moses' time, which led him to use this terminology?
If so, the King would have been referring to himself, his family, his court, etc.
But, what does this have to do with God? ... Why would He use such a majestic plurality?
Who would a totally montheistic God be referring to? ... He and His angels? Ridiculous.
Therefore, Genesis 1:26 must be referring to a plural God.

Father God created "all things" through Jesus (i.e. it was Jesus who actually did the creating)
"... God who created all things through Jesus Christ ..." (Ephesians 3:9)
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3)
"He was in the world, and the world was made through Him ..." (John 1:10)
"His Son ... through whom also He (Father God) made the worlds" (Hebrews 1:2)
"... one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things" (1 Corinthians 8:6)
"For by Him (Jesus Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth
... All things were created through Him and for Him." (Colossians 1:16)
"But to the Son He (Father God) says:
'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ...
... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You ...
... You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens
are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain ...' " (Hebrews 1:8-11)
"(You Jews) killed the Author (beginning, originator, source) of life" (Acts 3:15)

Jesus is the Sustainer of "all things" now (present tense)
"And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist (are held together)." (Colossians 1:17)
"... upholding (sustaining) all things by the word of His power" (Hebrews 1:3)

Beyond all of the above ...
There are approximately 20 verses where Jesus (and others) said that He is equal to Father God,
and Jesus warned, "If you do not believe that I AM (i.e. God), you will die in your sins." (John 8:24).
(Note: There is no "he" after "I AM" in any Greek manuscript.)
Some people refuse to believe all of the dozens of verses which point to the fact that Jesus is God.
Truly, they might just as well throw their Bibles in the trash can and ride off into the sunset,
and continue to hope that their future in eternity will be a pleasant one.

Just to add to your post, I would give my witness.  Jesus personally told me he is God.

There are many anti-Trinitarians,
but who among them will claim the Scriptures were altered to teach the Trinity?
These people need to show alteration, or just thrown their Bibles in the trash can.
Never any response to this challenge ... anywhere.
Only more excuses and more arguing.

Hint to you people ... Just because you can't understand the Trinity desn't mean it is wrong.
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways My ways

Quote from: Insight on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 05:27:09

Quote from: Insight on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:52:36

Quote from: fish153 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 16:01:54

Well of course, I'd have to disagree with you there.  Those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (The Word who is God became flesh) are of the spirit of antichrist.  That is a denial of the divinity of Christ.  Those are the true apostates. ("even denying the very Lord that bought them"--denying that Jesus is God is a very serious offense).

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

I wonder who it is then that actually "denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?

Maybe you should ask yourself why the Apostles spoke so much about his human nature and not once about him having divine nature.

Maybe then you will start to understand the real Jesus Christ and not a three headed monster.

Insight

You might like to show us where John speaks of Jesus having a divine "nature".  That is Jesus sharing in Yahweh's Immortal Essence?  

I said...

Quote

I have seen this stated a number of times in this forum and is certainly a misconception among TB's.  Your Holy Trinity confines you to believe Jesus shared a divine nature, right!

And you took off like a Trinitarian rocket to John 1:1.  Maybe you should read the posts more carefully next time.  

The irony in you quoting Jude at me, is found in your inability to reconcile and explain coherently how Jesus, being in sins flesh (Rom 8:3), and yet also simultaneously "dwelling in light unapproachable which no man has seen or can see 1 Tim 6:16  

Maybe after your attempt to show that which cannot be explained or understood; go back to Jude and take personal heed to its warning.

May you be given ears to hear.

Insight

Insight----

John 1:1 and John 1:14 clearly state that God became a man.  99% of Bible scholars, commentators and Christians in general can agree on this point.  It is so clear it is not really arguable.  Unless you have more "insight" than spiritually taught believers do--which you apparently think you have.

Yes---I quoted Jude to you because it applies to you.  You are "teaching" on this board with your doctrine.  And you slander and mock that which your finite brain cannot grasp.  None of us can "grasp" the Trinity----it is something we believe now, and which will be revealed to all one day.  But when you call the Trinity a "three-headed monster" you are mocking the exalted and awesome God of eternity, and actually fulfilling what Jude 10 states fales teachers do--they slander things they do not understand.  

Unfortunately you fall into the category of a false teacher.

INSIGHT- If you do not believe that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, if you do not believe in the deity of Jesus, then you are od the devil.

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus and I pray that you will becomed saved from hell.

Quote from: fish153 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 10:11:06
Insight----

John 1:1 and John 1:14 clearly state that God became a man.  

Your error continues – If you are going to quote the Bible do so correctly.

"The Logos became Flesh

Quote from: Insight on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 21:29:16

Quote from: fish153 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 10:11:06
Insight----

John 1:1 and John 1:14 clearly state that God became a man.  

Your error continues – If you are going to quote the Bible do so correctly.

"The Logos became Flesh

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome? 

Quote from: fish153 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 22:52:05

Insight--

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". (John 1:1)  

The JW's have their own Bible and they change to "and the Word was a god".  Are you going to do the same Insight?  

No

Quote

No knowledgeable Bible scholar would ever alter this verse of scripture---it says what it says.

Agreed

Quote

The JW's can't do anything with John 20:28 however, and have to leave what Thomas says alone: "My Lord and my God".  

Yes, Thomas understood Jesus perfectly manifested the Father representing His Father on Earth.

God told Israel to accept the angel that went before them as Yahweh also because God's name was in him.

Of course Jesus at that point in time was greater than the angles BUT not the Father of course.

Quote

They try to say "well, Thomas wasn't ACTUALLY calling Him God---he meant "you are like a God to me" or some other such nonsense.

NO, Thomas was calling him God that is very clear.  It appears you are struggling with the why.

Quote

Jesus accepted the worship by the way, which only God should do.

Worshipping Jesus does not imply that he is God or that he pre-existed.   Only that due to the Glory which his Father gave him he is worthy to be praised.

Quote

Being in the minority on something isn't always good Insight.  You can point to Elijah---but when you deny the clear, written word of God, and take away the Divinity of Jesus Christ Insight, you join the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Way International, Jim Jones, etc, etc, all cults who taught, or teach Jesus is not God.  They are the minority, and they are wrong.

Well it depends upon ones perception.

Jesus will barely find the faith when he comes, that we do know.  Of all the Apostate Christians in the world how many of them will understand the true Jesus Christ?

That's right...only a minority.

It's always been the case.

I wanted share something I recently read:

"It is difficult, if not impossible, to explain what the word Person means as applied to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are accustomed to think of persons as individual human beings, and we know that three persons cannot be one being. The Persons of the Godhead are clearly distinguished from one another in many passages of Scripture; yet they cannot be separated. This truth is beyond complete understanding by our finite minds.

No illustration of the Trinity will suffice to explain this relationship, but we can perhaps get some help by trying to express the relationship mathematically. Men would ordinarily say of the Persons: one plus one plus one equals three. But it would be more accurate to say: one times one times one equals ONE, for each of the Persons is fully God in the absolute sense, and the three together are the one self-same God".

Mathematics play a huge part in all that goes on around us.  It is very interesting that when one multiplies 1X1X1 = 1
We cannot explain the Trinity with our finite minds, but perhaps seeing that mathematically (3) ones when multiplied equal
ONE gives us a bit of a glimpse into the meaning of the Trinity--though still far beyond our finite understanding.

Quote from: Insight on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 20:52:54

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome? 

No comment on what I wrote?

Could you quote the scripture that you are referring to that says "Jesus overcame"?  Then we can analyze it.

Quote from: fish153 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 22:52:05

Insight--

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". (John 1:1)  The JW's have their own Bible and they change to "and the Word was a god".  Are you going to do the same Insight?  No knowledgeable Bible scholar would ever alter this verse of scripture---it says what it says.   The JW's can't do anything with John 20:28 however, and have to leave what Thomas says alone: "My Lord and my God".   They try to say "well, Thomas wasn't ACTUALLY calling Him God---he meant "you are like a God to me" or some other such nonsense.  Jesus accepted the worship by the way, which only God should do.

Being in the minority on something isn't always good Insight.  You can point to Elijah---but when you deny the clear, written word of God, and take away the Divinity of Jesus Christ Insight, you join the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Way International, Jim Jones, etc, etc, all cults who taught, or teach Jesus is not God.  They are the minority, and they are wrong.

Point of fact, on the chance that you and your readers weren't aware, regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' "New World Translation" Bible and its rendering of John 1:1, it may interest you to know that, in support and explanation of their wording of this verse (especially within the third clause with "a god"), there is soon to be published a 20+ year study (as of 11/2011), a thoroughly researched reference work - an historical analysis & exhaustive annotated bibliography - it will be entitled, "What About John 1:1?"

To learn more of its design and expected release date, you are invited to search on the Internet and visit:

Good Companion Books

When finally published, apart from discussing many of the other topics and scriptures often related to the man-made Trinity doctrine, you will also discover that we have collected information on about 430+ scholarly reference works (mostly Trinitarian) which, throughout the centuries, had opted to say something other than, "and the Word was God," and that, included among them are over 120 which had chosen to use "a god" within the third clause of their renderings.

As you might expect, we are very excited at the opportunity to share such findings with others.

Furthermore, a separate publication, that is, representing an indepth analysis of Thomas' statement at John 20:28, will also be forthcoming, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was not an address to Jesus as God.

Agape, JohnOneOne.

Quote from: JohnOneOne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 11:12:54

Quote from: fish153 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 22:52:05

Insight--

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". (John 1:1)  The JW's have their own Bible and they change to "and the Word was a god".  Are you going to do the same Insight?  No knowledgeable Bible scholar would ever alter this verse of scripture---it says what it says.   The JW's can't do anything with John 20:28 however, and have to leave what Thomas says alone: "My Lord and my God".   They try to say "well, Thomas wasn't ACTUALLY calling Him God---he meant "you are like a God to me" or some other such nonsense.  Jesus accepted the worship by the way, which only God should do.

Being in the minority on something isn't always good Insight.  You can point to Elijah---but when you deny the clear, written word of God, and take away the Divinity of Jesus Christ Insight, you join the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Way International, Jim Jones, etc, etc, all cults who taught, or teach Jesus is not God.  They are the minority, and they are wrong.

Point of fact, on the chance that you and your readers weren't aware, regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' "New World Translation" Bible and its rendering of John 1:1, it may interest you to know that, in support and explanation of their wording of this verse (especially within the third clause with "a god"), there is soon to be published a 20+ year study (as of 11/2011), a thoroughly researched reference work - an historical analysis & exhaustive annotated bibliography - it will be entitled, "What About John 1:1?"

To learn more of its design and expected release date, you are invited to search on the Internet and visit:

Good Companion Books

When finally published, apart from discussing many of the other topics and scriptures often related to the man-made Trinity doctrine, you will also discover that we have collected information on about 430+ scholarly reference works (mostly Trinitarian) which, throughout the centuries, had opted to say something other than, "and the Word was God," and that, included among them are over 120 which had chosen to use "a god" within the third clause of their renderings.

As you might expect, we are very excited at the opportunity to share such findings with others.

Furthermore, a separate publication, that is, representing an indepth analysis of Thomas' statement at John 20:28, will also be forthcoming, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was not an address to Jesus as God.

Agape, JohnOneOne.

If it is from the Jehovah's Witnesses we can expect it to fall in line with their other literature--altered information, changed dates, the authority of a few men in Brooklyn New York rather than reputable Bible Scholars.  I look forward to this momentous work.   

Insight without your clarification what did Thomas mean when he said "my Lord and my God." I think from this reading that he meant to call Jesus his Lord and his God. As if he really meant that Jesus Christ was indeed his God.  Hmm If Adam was created in the image of God did that make him worthy of worship too? I wot not. But I will also tell you that God does not share his glory with any man. So either Jesus was and is God or he was a liar or a lunatic. What do you say he was Insight?

Quote from: JohnOneOne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 11:12:54
Point of fact, on the chance that you and your readers weren't aware, regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' "New World Translation" Bible and its rendering of John 1:1, it may interest you to know that, in support and explanation of their wording of this verse (especially within the third clause with "a god"), there is soon to be published a 20+ year study (as of 11/2011),
a thoroughly researched reference work - an historical analysis & exhaustive annotated bibliography -
it will be entitled, "What About John 1:1?"

One reason this study of yours was a waste of time is that ...
the Trinity doctrine does not stand or fall with John 1:1.

There are 70+ verses which point to the fact that Jesus was/is part of the Triune Godhead.

Anyone not believing these verses must believe they were added at some point.
These people need to produce some kind of evidence of this ... because ...
their (and everyone else's) opinions, feelings, biases, etc. are worthless.

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 05:58:45

Quote from: Insight on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 20:52:54

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome? 

No comment on what I wrote?

Could you quote the scripture that you are referring to that says "Jesus overcame"?  Then we can analyze it.

It concerns me you do not know these Scriptures.

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 20:31:26

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 05:58:45

Quote from: Insight on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 20:52:54

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome? 

No comment on what I wrote?

Could you quote the scripture that you are referring to that says "Jesus overcame"?  Then we can analyze it.

It concerns me you do not know these Scriptures.

It concerns me that you do not quote them.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 23:09:36

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 20:31:26

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 05:58:45

Quote from: Insight on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 20:52:54

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome?  

No comment on what I wrote?

Could you quote the scripture that you are referring to that says "Jesus overcame"?  Then we can analyze it.

It concerns me you do not know these Scriptures.

It concerns me that you do not quote them.

Maybe you should cease from asking unlearned questions and obey Christs example:

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal 5:24

And you ask follishly what did Jesus overcome?

Insight

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 23:31:57

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 23:09:36

Quote from: Insight on Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 20:31:26

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 05:58:45

Quote from: Insight on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 20:52:54

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 09, 2011 - 06:45:07
Romans 8:3 says the "likeness of sinful flesh" not "sins flesh".  That does not mean that Jesus had "sinful" flesh.  If one is to state that this "likeness" is the same as saying Jesus had "sinful" flesh, then couldn't we also say that man, created in the "likeness of God" is God?  But we know that "likeness" is not "equality", so Romans 8:3 doesn't prove that Jesus' flesh was "sinful".

In truth, the fact that Romans 8:3 states only that Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh and not simply sinful flesh strongly implies that Jesus' flesh was not sinful at all, but rather flesh free from sin.

What did he overcome?  

No comment on what I wrote?

Could you quote the scripture that you are referring to that says "Jesus overcame"?  Then we can analyze it.

It concerns me you do not know these Scriptures.

It concerns me that you do not quote them.

Maybe you should cease from asking unlearned questions and obey Christs example:

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal 5:24

And you ask follishly what did Jesus overcome?

Insight

That quote is refering to 'those that are Christ's' and not Christ Himself.  Being God incarnate, Himself didn't have trouble with lusts and that sort of thing.

I will let others more patient than I deal with your folly!

It appears you captain-less!

I doubt you will understand the phrase nor make the connection...but maybe one wiser than I could expound this for you.

Quote from: Insight on Mon Nov 14, 2011 - 00:03:38
I will let others more patient than I to deal with your folly!

It appears you captain-less!

I doubt you will understand the phrase nor make the connection...but maybe one wiser than I could expound this for you.

You know, I think you'd be more comfortable with the Muslims over in THEIR forum. They're non-Trinitarians too.  Don't worry, no one here will miss you.