Christian Forums

Genesis 7

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth


the dietary laws are not a Jewish law it is a law from God.

there was no Jew around when the dietary law was given.

was Noah a Jew or israleite?

You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 12:07:38
You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

Your statement is simply not true especially in light of the fact that you saw fit to capitalize the words "JEWS ONLY". The dietary laws are given to ALL ISRAEL. Judah is only one tribe out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Leviticus 11:1-2 KJV
1.  And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2.  Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Yeshua says he is not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel:

Matthew 10:5-7 KJV
5.  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6.  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7.  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

THEN HE SAYS THIS:

Matthew 15:10-28 KJV
10.  And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11.  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12.  Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13.  But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14.  Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15.  Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16.  And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17.  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18.  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19.  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20.  These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
21.  Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22.  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23.  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24.  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25.  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26.  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27.  And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28.  Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And [also] her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Yeshua has effectively changed (from our perspective not his) the meaning of what it truly means to be an Israelite. The Canaanite woman of Tyre was grafted into the Jer.11:16 and Rom.11 Olive Tree of YHWH and House of Israel by FAITH because she changed her mindset, was willing to become a "dog", was willing to sit at the feet of the Master and eat only the "crumbs" of his DOCTRINES which fell from his table, and even worship was not enough, (and even Nicodemus, who "came by night" seeking crumbs of wisdom, had to do the same). Therefore the dietary laws are not "abolished" or "of no effect" but rather they are become SPIRIT according to the interpretations of them given by the Master Interpreter of Torah in the Gospel accounts.

John 6:63 KJV
63.  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Quote from: howard on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 07:10:04

Quote from: Debbie_55 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 14:28:53

Quote from: howard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there 

Please reread vs. 4 and 5 and if you want to live by the law by all means please do, but also remember if you break even one you are guilty of breaking them all. I will live by grace instead because I know I am not perfected as of yet and will not be until the coming of the Lord and the law is not of faith nor does it have have any salvation provision in it.


Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Quote from: daq on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 13:46:10
Your statement is simply not true especially in light of the fact that you saw fit to capitalize the words "JEWS ONLY". The dietary laws are given to ALL ISRAEL. Judah is only one tribe out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

And Paul described himself as a JEW of the tribe of Benjamin.

I am using the term the same way he did.

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, " I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people.

Quotefor those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 12:07:38
You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?

Quote from: Debbie_55 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 15:30:58

Quote from: howard on Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 07:10:04

Quote from: Debbie_55 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 14:28:53

Quote from: howard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there 

Please reread vs. 4 and 5 and if you want to live by the law by all means please do, but also remember if you break even one you are guilty of breaking them all. I will live by grace instead because I know I am not perfected as of yet and will not be until the coming of the Lord and the law is not of faith nor does it have have any salvation provision in it.


Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

in Galatians is Paul speaking of the commandments or the law of animal sacrifce?

in the commandments a curse?

How did a man get hung on the tree?

what did the man break to get hung on the tree?

if you break one you break them all and if you break one the Lord said long after Jesus death and resurrection

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


if a man sin or break one of the commandments he has a advocate who is Jesus

in other words repent

also the same Paul in Galatian is the same Paul who said this in Romans

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

and Paul said this

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

so I think Galatians need to be reexamined because Paul is not talking about the commandments in it, but the law of animal sacrifice

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53

Quotefor those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

Acts 16:1
Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

the first lesson Jesus teaches us is that of the seed


Genesis 1:10-12

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.



Gen 17v9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53

Quotefor those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

if we use your logic then abraham and the stranger in his house hold where Jews.
 
Abraham and his household kept the law and were circumcised

lets read the bible

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



Genesis 17
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant


was abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

the dietary laws has nothing to do with being a Jew or Israelite.

The Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

man did not eat meat and men did not kill animals for food.

why did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?

what is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

if you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?

do you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?

Quote from: howard on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:47:42maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?

I would say that "clean" and "unclean" were probably known during the life of Adam and Cain.  But until the Exodus we do not see that stipulation being used for food. It would seem from the texts that it showed what was acceptable for sacrifice and what was not. Indeed, before Noah no flesh was considered food. Before Genesis 9.3 only vegatation was considered fit for human consumption.

Here is where the prohibition on strangled meat comes from:

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Quote from: howard on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 07:03:12

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

You are looking at that from a modern western viewpoint.  Judaism since about that time has been matrilineal (from the mother) instead of from the father. Thus following Genesis "the seed of the woman." Paul writes to Timothy and mentions him following the faith of his mother and grandmother (both Jews) and Paul circ's him which makes him fully Jewish.

QuoteThe Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

The only dietary law in place before and during the flood was to eat vegetables only.

Quotewhy did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?

Unrecorded.

Quotewhat is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

Unrecorded until Moses wrote Leviticus

Quoteif you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?

It depends on whether you are Jewish (Israelite) or not.

Quotedo you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?

He did not as He is Jewish.

Quotewas abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

Abraham was the first Hebrew and his house after him.

In current parlance we could call them Jews and not be far from mark.  Definately a father of the Jews.

In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

Quote from: Beta on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:46:34
In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

Then explain Acts 21.20-26.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.

Several weeks ago our Rabbi Mike Rudolph gave a message on Paul's supposed anti-torah verses.  He and Rabbi Dan Juster have been working on a book together on the Torah commands. The portions have been posted as they finish them on the Tikkun website.

I see that the chapter is now posted.  A brief quote:

QuoteBut as we seek the Holy Spirit for how to keep the Law, we are hindered by ever-present "elephants in the room". The "elephants" of which I speak are the well-known writings of the Apostle Paul which seem to say that obeying the Mosaic Law is no longer profitable and may even cause spiritual harm. I knew it was not so, but because I have had to restudy and rethink Paul's statements every time someone raised them to me in debate, I decided to write this short verse-by-verse commentary in order to express concisely what I believe Paul really meant in his writings.

In reading further, each numbered caption is a statement one frequently hears from opponents of observing the Law. Following each caption are the Scriptures, authored by Paul, that are most often used to support the erroneous view. After that comes my commentary.

 
We No Longer Have to Obey the Law Because We Are Now Under Grace 
We Are Justified by Faith & Not by the Law, So the Deeds of the Law Have No Value.  We Are Now Dead to the Law, Having Been Delivered from It.   
The Mosaic Law is a Curse, and Those Who Seek to Obey It Are Under Its Curse.   
It No Longer Matters What We Eat, or Drink, or Whether We Keep God's Special Days.  The Mosaic Law was Defective & Is Now Obsolete. 
The Mosaic Law is a Ministry of Death, So Literal Observance of It Kills. 
The Mosaic Law was Done Away With by Messiah, So All We Need Do Now is Love Our Neighbor.

http://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah/intro-mr3c.php

Now remember this was written to JEWS, not gentiles in the regular church. However the doctrine holds even if you from the gentile groups are not held to it.

most people don't understand that you have a role in saving yourself

Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.



Ezekiel 14

12The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

14Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 10:28:07

Quote from: Beta on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:46:34
In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

Then explain Acts 21.20-26.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 08:52:05
Several weeks ago our Rabbi Mike Rudolph gave a message on Paul's supposed anti-torah verses.  He and Rabbi Dan Juster have been working on a book together on the Torah commands. The portions have been posted as they finish them on the Tikkun website.

I see that the chapter is now posted.  A brief quote:

QuoteBut as we seek the Holy Spirit for how to keep the Law, we are hindered by ever-present "elephants in the room". The "elephants" of which I speak are the well-known writings of the Apostle Paul which seem to say that obeying the Mosaic Law is no longer profitable and may even cause spiritual harm. I knew it was not so, but because I have had to restudy and rethink Paul's statements every time someone raised them to me in debate, I decided to write this short verse-by-verse commentary in order to express concisely what I believe Paul really meant in his writings.

In reading further, each numbered caption is a statement one frequently hears from opponents of observing the Law. Following each caption are the Scriptures, authored by Paul, that are most often used to support the erroneous view. After that comes my commentary.

 
We No Longer Have to Obey the Law Because We Are Now Under Grace 
We Are Justified by Faith & Not by the Law, So the Deeds of the Law Have No Value.  We Are Now Dead to the Law, Having Been Delivered from It.   
The Mosaic Law is a Curse, and Those Who Seek to Obey It Are Under Its Curse.   
It No Longer Matters What We Eat, or Drink, or Whether We Keep God's Special Days.  The Mosaic Law was Defective & Is Now Obsolete. 
The Mosaic Law is a Ministry of Death, So Literal Observance of It Kills. 
The Mosaic Law was Done Away With by Messiah, So All We Need Do Now is Love Our Neighbor.

http://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah/intro-mr3c.php

Now remember this was written to JEWS, not gentiles in the regular church. However the doctrine holds even if you from the gentile groups are not held to it.

was cain a Jew, Gentile, Hamite, Shemite? he was niether

but Cain knew what sin was because God told him what sin was

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


why would mention sin to cain f cain did not know what sin was?

how did cain(man) know what sin is?

God gave his words to man(word of mouth) eventually he had it written down when Israel came along

   

Genesis 5:22
And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


how did non- Jews, non nationalities walk with God when the languages and nations had not been set up yet?

Quoteauthor=DaveW link=topic=58777.msg1054632994#msg1054632994 date=1320766697]
The Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

The only dietary law in place before and during the flood was to eat vegetables only.

wrong

the dietary laws were always in place
the Lord had not given them to man because before the flood man did not eat meat.

Quotewhy did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?
Unrecorded.
what is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

Unrecorded until Moses wrote Leviticus

not so

how did Noah know about it? God told him

so 8 people knew about them.

Quoteif you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?
It depends on whether you are Jewish (Israelite) or not.

Noah was not a Jew or Israelite, nor his son's

so the law was given to MAN.

Quotedo you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?
He did not as He is Jewish.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

will you not walk as Jesus walked because he is Jewish?

Quoteauthor=howard link=topic=58777.msg1054632971#msg1054632971 date=1320756462]maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?[

I would say that "clean" and "unclean" were probably known during the life of Adam and Cain.  But until the Exodus we do not see that stipulation being used for food. It would seem from the texts that it showed what was acceptable for sacrifice and what was not. Indeed, before Noah no flesh was considered food. Before Genesis 9.3 only vegatation was considered fit for human consumption.

yet

the dietary laws were there because Jesus was there

just like sin

sin was around before a jew or israelite

this one scriptures tell it all

Jesus who is the lamb of God and also a Jew has been around from the foundation of the world

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:31:31

Quote from: howard on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 07:03:12

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

You are looking at that from a modern western viewpoint.  Judaism since about that time has been matrilineal (from the mother) instead of from the father. Thus following Genesis "the seed of the woman." Paul writes to Timothy and mentions him following the faith of his mother and grandmother (both Jews) and Paul circ's him which makes him fully Jewish.

Brother Dave

a woman don't carry a seed

Mary is the only woman that had a seed and it did not come from man.

who is the authourity God or man?

man carries the seed even today

man sperm is the seed

the woman is the ground

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

man has changed the order of things but we know better

the order of things was setup in Genesis 1

Genesis 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 1:25
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


man puts his seed(sperm) in the woman(ground) it is after HIS kind.

not her kind

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:41:56

Quotewas abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

Abraham was the first Hebrew and his house after him.

In current parlance we could call them Jews and not be far from mark.  Definately a father of the Jews.

abraham was not a jew. nor has the stranger in his House

yet before the commandments, dietary laws etc was written down

we read

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham knew the law and even the circumcision he event taught the stranger

lets look at something else

the egyptians knew the law before a jew or israelite was born

Genesis 12


9And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.

10And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

11And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:

12Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

13Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

14And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.

15The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.

16And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.

17And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.

18And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?

19Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

20And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.



 

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


the saints will get war made against them, if you don't get war made against you are you really serving God

are you tried, have you endured temptation?


James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.


this is steps in obtaining our crown of life

there is no such thing as osas, we must endure every day.

if you have not had any problems in your life after you acceptance of Jesus and understanding his word, are you really serving Jesus?

think about

Listen very carefully to what the Master is saying here.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Look at verse 35 in Mark, For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. What life are you losing?

That sinful life.

If you pick up his cross and bare it, you put off that old man and put on the knew.

Verse 36, For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? R

Remember you cannot take anything with you into the next life.

What shall you give in exchange for eternal life in the GOD family?

Here are some brothers that stood their ground.

Look also who is doing the persecuting.

Nothing has changed.

Acts 5


17Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,

18And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.

19But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,

20Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

21And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.

22But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned and told,

23Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.

24Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.

25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

26Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.

27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

The high priest had the brothers beaten and wanted to kill them.

Why?

They preached in the name of JESUS.

You also saw how the angel of the LORD saved them out of prison.

When they were freed by the angel, what did they do?

They went back into the temple and preached JESUS. After they were beaten, what did they do?

Verse 41, And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for HIS name.

Can you handle that?

are you serving Jesus?

You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

Quote from: howard on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 22:28:42
You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

Howard---

I appreciate what you are saying.  But I do have to remind you that the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses renounce family and life pursuits to "follow the Lord" also. But are they serving Jesus?  They think they are. The Mormons even give up two years of their life to "go on a mission".  They are laughed at, scoffed at, have doors shut on them, and spend hours doing "good works".  And they are very sincere!  But they are sincerely wrong.

They look at their own service as proof that they love and serve the Lord.  They are actually putting their trust in their own works and sacrifice rather than in the Finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. If you try to gauge "serving Jesus" based on works that you are doing, or hours you are putting in, you are not really serving Christ at all.

Instead of asking "are you sure you are serving Jesus"  a better question would be "are you sure you have been born-again?"  Because true service actually results FROM salvation, rather than looking to our works as a way leading TO salvation.

Quote from: fish153 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 23:03:33

Quote from: howard on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 22:28:42
You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

Howard---

I appreciate what you are saying.  But I do have to remind you that the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses renounce family and life pursuits to "follow the Lord" also. But are they serving Jesus?  They think they are. The Mormons even give up two years of their life to "go on a mission".  They are laughed at, scoffed at, have doors shut on them, and spend hours doing "good works".  And they are very sincere!  But they are sincerely wrong.

They look at their own service as proof that they love and serve the Lord.  They are actually putting their trust in their own works and sacrifice rather than in the Finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. If you try to gauge "serving Jesus" based on works that you are doing, or hours you are putting in, you are not really serving Christ at all.

Instead of asking "are you sure you are serving Jesus"  a better question would be "are you sure you have been born-again?"  Because true service actually results FROM salvation, rather than looking to our works as a way leading TO salvation.

Hi Fish

where in the bible did the Lord tell the Mormons or JW to do it the way they do?

at the end of the day when the Lord return will they make the cut(eternal life) or will the Lord tell them to depart from him?

these entities have the same question as we do who belong to denominations or not are we really serving Jesus?

as concerning born again

Peter said

Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

who on this site be they Mormon or JW are of the incorruptible seed?

if any here let them do as Jesus commanded below

John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

if you are in sin and commit sin you are corruptible

who will cast the first stone?

   

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

all have sinned

who will cast the first stone?

if you are born again cast the stone

because your are a incorruptible seed.

are you really serving Jesus if you are born again then it is a mystery

Paul said

1Corithians 15

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


when did you put on incorruption?