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Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 04:33:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:05:32

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15

Quote from: Giver on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God.  When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.

Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him. 

By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin.  No sin can enter God's home.

Read the following verse carefully.  Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.

This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross.  Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God.  It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God!  When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life.  But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...

To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...

The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.

Yes...it sure seems that way. :(

The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?

I have hope for Giver though!  God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found.   

Do you deliberately commit any wrongdoing?  If you do then you have never seen Jesus, nor do you know Jesus.  Also if you deliberately sin you will never enter the Kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 04:33:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:05:32

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15

Quote from: Giver on Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God.  When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.

Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.  

By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin.  No sin can enter God's home.

Read the following verse carefully.  Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.

This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross.  Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God.  It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God!  When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life.  But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...

To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...

The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.

Yes...it sure seems that way. :(

The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?

I have hope for Giver though!  God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found.  

Do you deliberately commit any wrongdoing?  If you do then you have never seen Jesus, nor do you know Jesus.  Also if you deliberately sin you will never enter the Kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.

Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven? 

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven? 

Philippians 3:18-19...For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

Why are you an enemy of the Cross of Christ?

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?  

That's where he died. I am so sorry everyone for saying that he never died once, I totally forgot. I keep eternity in mind because that's where I am with him.  

Thank you God for Giver.

Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:56:45

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven? 

That's where he died. I am so sorry everyone for saying that he never died once, I totally forgot. I keep eternity in mind because that's where I am with him. 

Thank you God for Giver.

Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised.  The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.  Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.  14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.  Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God.  Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope.  Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ.  Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13).  It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High; a new creation in Him...

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:18:46
Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised.  The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.  Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.  14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.  Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God.  Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope.  Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ.  Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13).  It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High.

I don't disagree with this at all. I only disagree with people using it as an excuse to continue in sin. Jesus tells us to sin no more and we have to live up to it. I won't take his death for granted, he died because the sinners killed him. We can't be like them when we are with him. Sin opposes him, is against him, not with him.

It's not hard, Jesus promised us his yoke is easy and his burden light. It is accomplish-able, Jesus promised us and washed sin from us. How can he wash us and we continue to be filthy?

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:31:24

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:18:46
Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised.  The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.  Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.  14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.  Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God.  Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope.  Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ.  Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13).  It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High.

I don't disagree with this at all. I only disagree with people using it as an excuse to continue in sin. Jesus tells us to sin no more and we have to live up to it. I won't take his death for granted, he died because the sinners killed him. We can't be like them when we are with him.

No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus.  But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross.  It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.

Ephesians 2:8...For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God...9not by works, so that no one can boast.  10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan.  Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness.  Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus.  But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross.  It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.

The bible says it.

1 Corinthians 6:9  9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.

If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.

Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus.  But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross.  It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.

The bible says it.

1 Corinthians 6:9  9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.

If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.

Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.

And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan.  Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness.  Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.

Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan.  Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness.  Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.

Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.

No...Giver is condemning us to Hell

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:59:25

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan.  Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness.  Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.

Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.

No...Giver is condemning us to Hell

He wouldn't want that for his worst enemies. None of us do. 

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:05:53

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:59:25

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan.  Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness.  Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.

Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.

No...Giver is condemning us to Hell

He wouldn't want that for his worst enemies. None of us do. 

Then why would he discount the cross of Christ where God made a way for us to have a relationship with Him and become a new creation?

He claims Jesus sat down beside him and instructed him; there have been a few out there claiming such a thing...and they all lead us away from the cross.

He is deceived...please do not follow him

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:57:12

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus.  But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross.  It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.

The bible says it.

1 Corinthians 6:9  9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.

If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.

Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.

And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?

He gave his son so that we can have eternal life. God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us. Father, Son and you, the holy spirit. We can't be sinners with so much holiness in us. We can't call ourselves sinners, you don't have to say it out loud. But God gives us a quiet reassurance that what we are sharing isn't of this world, is it?

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:13:43

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:57:12

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus.  But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross.  It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.

The bible says it.

1 Corinthians 6:9  9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.

If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.

Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.

And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?

He gave his son so that we can have eternal life. God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us. Father, Son and you, the holy spirit. We can't be sinners with so much holiness in us. We can't call ourselves sinners, you don't have to say it out loud. But God gives us a quiet reassurance that what we are sharing isn't of this world, is it?

Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him

I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:17:24

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him

I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.

So...Jesus sat next to you too?

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:16:35
Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?

I don't have any desires, I only enjoy my family and food, only cooking and tasting, not over indulging in it. I don't know what you mean by missing the mark?

If I sin unwittingly because I am blind to it being a sin, missing the mark perhaps??? Jesus will wipe it clean from me and I won't do it anymore. Because I know Jesus continually cleanses me when necessary.

Am I totally sin free? I don't know, but that keeps me exempt from any sin I may be doing unwittingly.

John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:21:38

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:17:24

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him

I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.

So...Jesus sat next to you too?

There are times he is in us and times when he is next to us. Please don't make fun of something you may not understand.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:27:14

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:16:35
Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?

I don't have any desires, I only enjoy my family and food, only cooking and tasting, not over indulging in it. I don't know what you mean by missing the mark?

If I sin unwittingly because I am blind to it being a sin, missing the mark perhaps??? Jesus will wipe it clean from me and I won't do it anymore. Because I know Jesus continually cleanses me when necessary.

Am I totally sin free? I don't know, but that keeps me exempt from any sin I may be doing unwittingly.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

What gives eternal life?

The cross of Jesus for the atonement of our sins...

or

Bitter sweet not sinning for the atonement of your sins...

It must be one or the other...no wiggle room please...

 
The following does not say that because Jesus died on the cross and one believes he did they will enter the kingdom of God.


New American Bible
(Ephesians 2:13) "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ.

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:33:05

The following does not say that because Jesus died on the cross and one believes he did they will enter the kingdom of God.


New American Bible
(Ephesians 2:13) "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ.

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:31:30

What gives eternal life?

Hebrews 9:27  And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment

All you have to do is die one time. But that doesn't guarantee eternal life. If you think continuing to call yourself a sinner will take you there, then so be it. But remember, Gods ways are not like man's ways.

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:41:38

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven? 

Philippians 3:18-19...For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

Why are you an enemy of the Cross of Christ?

That's gotta hurt!

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:38:34

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:31:30

What gives eternal life?

Hebrews 9:7  And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment

All you have to do is die one time.  

Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness.  Are you an enemy of the cross?

If this isnt enough then maybe I can find some more translations!!!!!!

1 john 1v8

Amplified
if we say we have no sin(refusing to admit that we are sinners), we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth(which the gospel presents) is not in us (does not dwell in our hearts.

English Standard Version (©2001)
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

International Standard Version (©2008)
If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we're not being truthful to ourselves.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And if we shall say we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If we say, "We aren't sinful" we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

American King James Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

American Standard Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:47:55

Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness.  Are you an enemy of the cross?

Do you actually think that people filled with the holy spirit aren't holy? I think an enemy of God will not be made holy.

Anyone claiming that they know Jesus, have the holy spirit and know God's word must be holy or just anyone can do this? Just like anyone can be saved by just saying Jesus saved me and I'm still a sinner?

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 13:19:54
If this isnt enough then maybe I can find some more translations!!!!!!

English Standard Version (©2001)
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

International Standard Version (©2008)
If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we're not being truthful to ourselves.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And if we shall say we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If we say, "We aren't sinful" we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

American King James Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

American Standard Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Chosenone, I never said I am sin free. I said I don't know whether I am or not because if I sin, I do it unwittingly. Jesus will clean it from me and I will stop doing it, he will open my eyes to it. I am still blind in things. If one say's their eyes are open, then they are left with their guilt. I don't know everything, all I know is that Jesus washes the sin from me when I am made aware of it by him.

Do we know what every single sin is? No, we only know the basics, adultery, slander, ect. Most of us don't do those already.

So don't make yourself guilty of something you don't know. None of us know. If you say you are a sinner, you are still guilty of something, if you say you don't sin, you are guilty, BUT if you are blind to some sins, then you aren't guilty. You don't know, Jesus isn't done with us, he's with us to the end.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 13:23:53

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:47:55

Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness.  Are you an enemy of the cross?

Do you actually think that people filled with the holy spirit aren't holy? I think an enemy of God will not be made holy.

Anyone claiming that they know Jesus, have the holy spirit and know God's word must be holy or just anyone can do this? Just like anyone can be saved by just saying Jesus saved me and I'm still a sinner?

Salvation is easy...because it cost God so much; Jesus was without sin...though for our sake He became sin...and His blood covers us.  For those who trust in the shed blood of Jesus for forgiveness of their sins...they will be saved.

Those who trust in their efforts; and believe me...billions do...will not see the kingdom of God.  Only those who trust in the blood of Jesus are given the Holy Spirit of God.  It is then...after salvation is given as a gift, that we grow spiritually in Jesus Christ.  It is growth in Him that makes us Holy...but, our salvation is secured already; anyone who says they know Him but reject the cross and replace it with self...is decieved.

Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:17:12
Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Why did you skipped verse 15???

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:36:31

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:17:12
Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Why did you skipped verse 15???

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!

Idk why I skipped, maybe just didn't want to post all the scripture.


What do you think freedom is if it's isn't being free of sin? I've heard of slave to sin but not free in sin.

Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

He isn't bearing sin the second time around. What makes you think he's going to be ok with it?

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:36:31

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!

I dont' know how much more clear Giver needs it to be...the verse you shared uses reference to Christ's death as a ransom, this verse from the same book also speaks of His death; "28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." speaks of Him being sacrificed to take away the sins of many.  Romans 10:9 says "believe in your heart that God raised Him from the *dead* and you will be saved".  How did He die? ON THE CROSS!  He said "It is finished" because His death paid the ransom (or penalty) for our sin (missing the mark of Holiness that God requires) He is the ONLY one who was Holy enough to do so!  
The cross is where the Perfect Lamb of God was sacrificed once for all as atonement for the sins of the world.  He came to SAVE the world, not condemn it!  He SAID He was the only way!

Here are more verses that explain how to attain salvation, Giver, and the importance of Christ dying on the cross to save us.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 4:25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification.

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the one who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the right-eousness of God.

1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit.

Hebrews 9:22 22 In fact, we can say that according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified by sprinkling with blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.



And, why our own works just don't cut it:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5-7 he saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (we NEED a savior!)

The importance of believing that He is who He said He is:
John 1:12 But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children

John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.


How to be saved:
Romans 10:9-11  If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,