Christian Forums

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 08:00:07
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

Read the context of that verse.  It is a healed man talking to pharasees. He makes that assertation which is presumably the common understanding taught in the synagogues of the day (taught by pharasees). That does not make it so unless you can find an OT verse supporting it.

Jn 9.30 The man answered and said to them, "Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes.
31 We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
32 Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind.
33 If this man were not from God, He could do nothing.

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:24:17

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 08:00:07
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

Read the context of that verse.  It is a healed man talking to pharasees. He makes that assertation which is presumably the common understanding taught in the synagogues of the day (taught by pharasees). That does not make it so unless you can find an OT verse supporting it.

Jn 9.30 The man answered and said to them, "Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes.
31 We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
32 Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind.
33 If this man were not from God, He could do nothing.

GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

The tactic or method is as follows.

Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.

Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will fell bad all their life.  Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.

Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.




I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.

GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

The tactic or method is as follows.

Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.

Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will fell bad all their life.  Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.

Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.




I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.

Quote from: cs80918 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

The tactic or method is as follows.

Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.

Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will feel bad all their life.  They will be confused and chasing something that can not be obtained while on this earth.  Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.

Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.




I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.

Quote from: cs80918 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits? 
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.

Quote from: Ladonia on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 09:30:19

Quote from: Giver on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04

Quote from: Ladonia on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:44:00

Quote from: Giver on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55

Quote from: Ladonia on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46

Quote from: Giver on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross.   

A person who sins IS a Christian.  A forgiven follower of Christ.  What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us!  He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own!  He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.

Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"

Thank you, Lord Jesus!

You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked.  If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.

Quote from: Giver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 14:59:22Yes baby Christians will be forgiven if they ask, but a Christian will not need to be forgiven.   

This is the 3rd time I have asked you this...and you fail to answer each time, why?

Do you Giver trust in the death of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of your sins...and eternal life?

or,

Do you trust yourself not sinning for the atonement of your sins...and eternal life?

Please answer so we will know if you are from God or from satan......and please do not throw out random Bible verses; just answer the question...please...

I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

A spiritual Christian will not sin.  A baby Christian/a Christian who is not yet spiritual will sin.

Let me share part of my life with you.  I was a Christian from birth.  I went to Christian schools, and I truly believed in Jesus.  Jesus even answered a prayer of healing for me before I was a teen.  From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday.  I always tried to live without sinning.  I even would pray to die before ever sinning again.  I would cry after committing a sin.  No matter how hard I tried; sin would happen.

After accepting Jesus' call to his ministry, and giving him my life, and Jesus giving me his Holy Spirit, and Jesus personally teaching me for about a year, he had me go to confession.  After I did that he told me I was clean and he could now use me.  That was over thirty years ago, and I have remained sinless ever sense.

There is so much scripture that tells us we are free from sin if we become possessed by God's spirit.  Why is it people can't see?

There was a time where I felt anger with the church, because it did not teach me what I just shared with you.  Then I realized that there were no longer people in the church who knew.  Then one sees that those who do know have to let others know.  Now I only saw that because Jesus pointed it out to me. 

Quote from: Giver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 20:19:15From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday. 

Please...give me a break; a lie...which by the way is sin!

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 12:05:28

Quote from: cs80918 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits? 
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.

You are right it is either his flesh, the world or satan/demon/s.

It way it is UNGODLY.  Not of God.

It is discerned by what he has written, just like if you have read through the Quran.  It is UNGODLY.

Quote from: Giver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 20:19:15

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

A spiritual Christian will not sin.  A baby Christian/a Christian who is not yet spiritual will sin.

Let me share part of my life with you.  I was a Christian from birth.  I went to Christian schools, and I truly believed in Jesus.  Jesus even answered a prayer of healing for me before I was a teen.  From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday.  I always tried to live without sinning.  I even would pray to die before ever sinning again.  I would cry after committing a sin.  No matter how hard I tried; sin would happen.

After accepting Jesus' call to his ministry, and giving him my life, and Jesus giving me his Holy Spirit, and Jesus personally teaching me for about a year, he had me go to confession.  After I did that he told me I was clean and he could now use me.  That was over thirty years ago, and I have remained sinless ever sense.

There is so much scripture that tells us we are free from sin if we become possessed by God's spirit.  Why is it people can't see?

There was a time where I felt anger with the church, because it did not teach me what I just shared with you.  Then I realized that there were no longer people in the church who knew.  Then one sees that those who do know have to let others know.  Now I only saw that because Jesus pointed it out to me. 

Giver are you catholic?

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 12:05:28

Quote from: cs80918 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER-  A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.

So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits? 
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.

Thank you for pointing this out.  Maybe I was presumptious or being dramatic to drive home a point. 

I do know this that God's people hear his voice.

In my own life I can't always discern if it is satan,my felsh or the world, but I can discern if it is of God or not of God. 

Giver- I do believe you are right about something.  Christians have not been taught nearly enough about walking in the spirit.

There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.

And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.

Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).

Quote from: comfy on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 13:21:45
There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.

And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.

Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).

(1 Corinthians 10:13) "You can trust God not to let you be tried beyond your strength, and with any trial he will give you a way out of it and the strength to bear it.

Giver- Are you Catholic?

Quote from: comfy on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 13:21:45
There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.

And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.

Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).

"Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).  Your quote reminded me of an incident during the first year of my ministry.  I was losing everything I owned, as was told to me by the Holy Spirit, but having to lose my car was just too hard for me, so I thought.  I was complaining to Jesus about the need for me to do with out my car, when he said to me: "Bob! They hung me.  You can understand that I stopped complaining from that day on. 

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

Amen and also arrogance and pride. God hates pride as well.

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.

If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.     

Quote from: Giver on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 14:54:06

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.

If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.     

The Greek word for that is bologna (baloney).... it is written (Paul wrote this):

1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Quote from: Giver on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 14:54:06

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.

But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.   

By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.

If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.     

This is not bibilical.  The bible speaks of rebuking other Christians who are wrong. 

Giver I am assuming you are Catholic, by you mentioning Mary visting your wife.

By being Catholic you are being sinful, because the very fact you are Catholic you are committing sins.  You communicate with Saints who have died from their mortal body.   You pray the rosary, etc.. all the sinful Catholic practices.

baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey!

Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."

But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
 
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.

And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.

So, I would say this was a very serious sin.

But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.

But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.

To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.

But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe"

But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Peter and Paul as sinners?





When people can't dispute scripture that I quote about sin, they try to make Peter, and Paul sinners.

Well Peter and Paul were sinners, until God made his home in them.



(1 Peter 4:16-19) "However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And,  "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

Quote from: comfy on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 21:13:03
baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey!

Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."

But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
 
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.

And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.

So, I would say this was a very serious sin.

But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.

But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.

To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.

But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe"

But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Boy, talk about Peter sinning. Didn't he deny Our Lord 3 times and was fully forgiven by Him?

Quote from: Ladonia on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 09:06:12

Quote from: comfy on Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 21:13:03
baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey!

Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."

But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
 
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.

And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.

So, I would say this was a very serious sin.

But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.

But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.

To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.

But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe"

But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Boy, talk about Peter sinning. Didn't he deny Our Lord 3 times and was fully forgiven by Him?

Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven.  Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.

When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.

Also remember we are talking about sins that lead to death.  Those are wrongdoings that one knows is a wrongdoing and does the act anyway. 

(1 John 5:17) "Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.

Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.


You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.


Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.

Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.

The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you.  It is about yielding to God.  The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,

There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit.  Love, long suffering, etc.   

I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.

You are not offering any advice.

Quote from: cs80918 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.


You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.


Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.

Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.

The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you.  It is about yielding to God.  The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,

There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit.  Love, long suffering, etc.  

I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.

You are not offering any advice.

You know, I like what you just said here about the Holy Sprit being in Christians. Twice I have been asked to give eulogies at funerals and both times I at first had no idea of what to say. In each instance after a period of prayer the words suddenly came into my head and I was the one to write them down on the paper. Yep, it was the Holy Spirit who gave me those words, of that I am sure.

You also say "draw nearer to God and He will draw nearer to you". Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. We are the ones who need to open ourselves to God and He will definitely walk right in. Sometimes I feel suh a peace come over me and it is truly a great feeling. I heard a sermon once on "having the peace of Christ" and I understood exactly what was being talked about. It feels that despite the troubles life brings, everything is in it's right place. ( at least as far as my life is going).

Quote from: Giver on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:30:36

Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven.  Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.

When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.

     

There is no such thing as 'Holy Spirit possession' never.

The Holy Spirit always LEADS !!!

Are you aware of the difference of 'possession and leading' ?

Quote from: cs80918 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.


You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.


Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.

Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.

The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you.  It is about yielding to God.  The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,

There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit.  Love, long suffering, etc.   

I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.

You are not offering any advice.

You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.

Quote from: Beta on Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 08:49:08

Quote from: Giver on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:30:36

Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven.  Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.

When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.

     

There is no such thing as 'Holy Spirit possession' never.

The Holy Spirit always LEADS !!!

Are you aware of the difference of 'possession and leading' ?

I am too tired this morning to look up all the places in the written Word of God where it tells us God possesses one who is of God.  Also when people who attempt to tell others things that they themselves obviously have no understanding of, it makes me sad that they know so little.

(John 14: 23) "Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.

Quote from: Giver on Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 09:30:40

Quote from: cs80918 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.


You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.


Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.

Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.

The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you.  It is about yielding to God.  The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,

There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit.  Love, long suffering, etc.   

I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.

You are not offering any advice.

You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.

Quote from: cs80918 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 16:30:17

Quote from: Giver on Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 09:30:40

Quote from: cs80918 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.


You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.


Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.

Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.

The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you.  It is about yielding to God.  The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,

There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit.  Love, long suffering, etc.   

I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.

You are not offering any advice.

You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ.  The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.

Once AGAIN GIVER,


GIVER are you CATHOLIC?

ARE YOU CATHOLIC?