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....at the end. One of the righteous saints who he raises up and takes with him to heaven, and are reigning in heaven with Jesus. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5) The unrighteous are dead. "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth". (Rev 20:7-8) Although not explicitly stated, it is obvious the unrighteous dead were resurrected after the 1000 years ended. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection". (Rev 20:6) Specifying the "first" resurrection implies a second resurrection.

Jesus Christ taught two resurrections."Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation

When Jesus comes at the end of the world to collect His Saints, He gathers them together from all the parts of the earth. Here we have two parallel accounts of what Jesus told His disciples about His second coming:

29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31. 24.

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25. And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:26-27.

When Jesus comes in the clods the wicked will be extremely confused at who, and what is happening, and they will be fearful of Christ and what is to happen to them. The righteous, on the other hand, know what is happening as Christ comes to take them to heave and who the Saviour is so have no fear.

Paul tells us in Thessalonians that God will not forget those who have died. If we believe that Jesus has risen from the dead, we can believe that God will bring them with Him.It is clear from the next few verses that Jesus will not only take all the living saints to heaven, but He will also raise from the dead all of His chosen ones who died, when He comes again, at His second coming,

'For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Jesus Himself comes down from heaven at His second coming. This is the event, the second coming which all shall see Christ come in the clouds not any rapture, at the end of the world before the 1000 years when Jesus comes to get His people and take them back with Him

Looking at 1 Corinthians, we find that Paul is consistent. Jesus is the first fruit of those who have fallen asleep in Jesus and here again Paul says that the dead in Christ will be raised at the time of His coming:
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23
All who have died in Christ, shall be made alive at Christ's second coming. It doesn't happen before His coming at all.
So, scripture shows Jesus is taking all His people back to be with Himself, because there are places for His saints to live and He wants us to be with Him. This most likely is the beloved city, the New Jerusalem and we know that the New Jerusalem does not come out of heaven until after the 1000 years.

Now Christ makes clear where Heaven is and who is going there...

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matthew 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven

Take note, that according to scripture we'll be in the clouds and taken to heaven at the second coming, not left on the earth. Christ takes the saints to heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you are in heaven after the second coming you know you are with the saints, Satan tries to spread the lie that the 1000 year is on earth so he can present himself as a false christ before Christ comes at the second coming, yet he cant take anyone to heaven.

Revelation 20 tells us what happens after the second coming with the saints in heaven reigned with Christ during the thousand years:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there is a 'good resurrection'(called "the first resurrection

Quote from: Hobie on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 04:50:43
....at the end. One of the righteous saints who he raises up and takes with him to heaven, and are reigning in heaven with Jesus. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5) The unrighteous are dead. "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth". (Rev 20:7-8) Although not explicitly stated, it is obvious the unrighteous dead were resurrected after the 1000 years ended. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection". (Rev 20:6) Specifying the "first" resurrection implies a second resurrection.

Jesus Christ taught two resurrections."Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation

There is the resurrection to eternal life ..... and the resurrection to the second death of the human spirit

There are more than one of the first noted in scripture

There is only one of the second

Quote from: Linker on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 06:01:25
There is the resurrection to eternal life ..... and the resurrection to the second death of the human spirit

There are more than one of the first noted in scripture

There is only one of the second

John 20:1 KJV
1. The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

John 20:1 YGB
1. And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

John 20:1 LIT (Literal Bible w/vertical Strongs #s)
1.
  |3588| on the
  |1161| And
  |3391| first
  |9999| {day}
  |3588| of the
  |4521| week,
  |3137| Mary
  |3588| the
  |3094| Magdalene
  |2064| comes
  |4404| early,
  |4653| darkness
  |2089| yet
  |5607| being
  |1519| to
  |3588| the
  |3419| tomb,
  |2532| and
  |0991| sees
  |3588| the
  |3037| stone
  |0142| being removed
  |1537| from
  |3588| the
  |3419| tomb.

Original Strong's Ref. #4404
Romanized  proi
Pronounced pro-ee'
adverb from GSN4253; at dawn; by implication, the daybreak watch:
KJV--early (in the morning), (in the) morning.

John 20:1 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
1. Te de mia ton sabbaton Maria he Magdalene erchetai proi skotias eti ouses eis to mnemeion kaiblepei ton lithon ermenon ek tou mnemeiou.
1. "Moreover, the first of the Sabbaton Maria the Magdalene enters dawn; darkness yet being INTO the tomb, and sees the stone [being] taken away from the tomb."

Mary is IN the darkness of her own tomb in the vision where Yeshua is about to appear to her. She sees the stone being removed: Dawn has come for Mary; she "enters dawn". Her name also will be changed forever on this day, (from Maria to Mariam) and she will speak her very first words in Hebrew-Aramaic; and time shall be no more: for it is the last great day, (for Mary).

The first resurrection is ongoing of all in Christ. There has been those caught up, and will continue to be just as you read the description the Apostle John gave of things to come in Revelation. There will be a taking away of those alive to be in the second resurrection at the beginning of the millennium; Matthew 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

My thoughts.
 

Here are the resurrections to immortality in scripture:

1Corinthians
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Revelation
11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Revelation
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. [Revelation 6:9-11; 20:4 [those beheaded]]


Matthew 29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 are not resurrections, but gatherings of the mortal survivors of the tribulation .... of these the ones found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth


Here is the resurrection to the second death

Revelation
20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Quote from: Linker on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 12:02:57
Here are the resurrections to immortality in scripture:

1Corinthians
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Revelation
11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Revelation
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. [Revelation 6:9-11; 20:4 [those beheaded]]


Matthew 29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 are not resurrections, but gatherings of the mortal survivors of the tribulation .... of these the ones found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth

Here is one of the references to the resurrection of damnation:

Jude 1:10-16 KJV
10. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13. Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

These are likened to autumn trees which have passed their appointed times to bear fruit yet did not bring forth any fruits or foliage in their times. They go on past their appointed times because they do not overcome in the time of their appointment. They are given "strong delusion" according to the Scripture and it has been ongoing since the Resurrection of Yeshua, Acts 2 at Pentecost, and written about in the NT and Epistles of Paul. Just remember what has already been stated time and time again around these parts: the Scripture, and particularly the New Testament, does not recognize physical death per-se because the flesh profits nothing according to the commandments and doctrine of Yeshua. It is all Spirit.

"TWICE DEAD"  =  "SECOND DEATH"

It's a done deal before the carcass hits the tundra ...

 

Quote from: larry2 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 08:33:24

The first resurrection is ongoing of all in Christ. There has been those caught up, and will continue to be just as you read the description the Apostle John gave of things to come in Revelation. There will be a taking away of those alive to be in the second resurrection at the beginning of the millennium; Matthew 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

My thoughts.
 

Larry, could you clarify what you believe happens to those that would be taken from Matthew 24:40.  I was taught that this was the rapture but I am not so sure anymore when I compare how the language from the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah judgments was used.

Quote from: larry2 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 08:33:24

The first resurrection is ongoing of all in Christ. There has been those caught up, and will continue to be just as you read the description the Apostle John gave of things to come in Revelation. There will be a taking away of those alive to be in the second resurrection at the beginning of the millennium; Matthew 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

My thoughts.
 

Quote from: Newbie100 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:03:05

Larry, could you clarify what you believe happens to those that would be taken from Matthew 24:40.  I was taught that this was the rapture but I am not so sure anymore when I compare how the language from the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah judgments was used.

Hi Newbie100, and I heard many of the same rationale way back due to popular end times books written giving that impression. I do believe the true raptures will be much like that, but Matthew 24:40 is talking of the end of the second half of the tribulation. Those taken will be taken reserved unto judgment at the great white throne. The Church will already be in heaven, and those left on earth just as in the days of Noah will remain to enter and inhabit the millennium. A similar verse is Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is the physical safety to remain or tarry behind.

In the time we look for is not the time of Matthew Chapter Twenty-four where we read the following verses. Basically: Run for your lives. The taking away by the flood was not a good thing to experience.

9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you.
13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.
16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world.
22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.

My thoughts        

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:46:29

Hi Newbie100, and I heard many of the same rationale way back due to popular end times books written giving that impression. I do believe the true raptures will be much like that, but Matthew 24:40 is talking of the end of the second half of the tribulation. Those taken will be taken reserved unto judgment at the great white throne. The Church will already be in heaven, and those left on earth just as in the days of Noah will remain to enter and inhabit the millennium. A similar verse is Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is the physical safety to remain or tarry behind.

In the time we look for is not the time of Matthew Chapter Twenty-four where we read the following verses. Basically: Run for your lives. The taking away by the flood was not a good thing to experience.

9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you.
13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.
16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world.
22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.

My thoughts        

My thoughts about the "taken" is about judgment and not deliverance as well.

Matthew 24:37-39 – But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Although I am not sure why Matthew 24:16 is so very selective about Judea.  The context seems to be of a Jewish nature and not a global one...

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:46:29

Hi Newbie100, and I heard many of the same rationale way back due to popular end times books written giving that impression. I do believe the true raptures will be much like that, but Matthew 24:40 is talking of the end of the second half of the tribulation. Those taken will be taken reserved unto judgment at the great white throne. The Church will already be in heaven, and those left on earth just as in the days of Noah will remain to enter and inhabit the millennium. A similar verse is Matthew 24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is the physical safety to remain or tarry behind.

In the time we look for is not the time of Matthew Chapter Twenty-four where we read the following verses. Basically: Run for your lives. The taking away by the flood was not a good thing to experience.

9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you.
13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.
16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world.
22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.

My thoughts        

Quote from: Newbie100 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 16:45:31
My thoughts about the "taken" is about judgment and not deliverance as well.

Matthew 24:37-39 – But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Although I am not sure why Matthew 24:16 is so very selective about Judea.  The context seems to be of a Jewish nature and not a global one...

The thing is that the second half of the tribulation will more directed to the judgment of the Jews. Even those of the great multitude of the Church will be in heaven at that time having come out of great tribulation according to Revelation 7:14.

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 17:04:31

The thing is that the second half of the tribulation will more directed to the judgment of the Jews. Even those of the great multitude of the Church will be in heaven at that time having come out of great tribulation according to Revelation 7:14.

Where does the first half end and the second half begin in Matthew 24?

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 17:04:31

The thing is that the second half of the tribulation will more directed to the judgment of the Jews. Even those of the great multitude of the Church will be in heaven at that time having come out of great tribulation according to Revelation 7:14.

Quote from: Newbie100 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:51:18

Where does the first half end and the second half begin in Matthew 24?

This last three and one half years of tribulation is also the time known as Jacob's trouble.

Matthew 24:15-16  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 
Mark 13:14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
 
I have also transcribed and posted the "Prophesy Study of Revelation" listed by chapter and verse at the following menu link. The menu lists individual chapters to click on, and once there verses are pretty much numerical and easy to locate for study. I hope it is a source of help to you also, and I'll still be around to answer anything I can.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/revelation-prophesy-study-link-directory/

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:23:11

Quote from: larry2 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 17:04:31

The thing is that the second half of the tribulation will more directed to the judgment of the Jews. Even those of the great multitude of the Church will be in heaven at that time having come out of great tribulation according to Revelation 7:14.

Quote from: Newbie100 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:51:18

Where does the first half end and the second half begin in Matthew 24?

This last three and one half years of tribulation is also the time known as Jacob's trouble.

Matthew 24:15-16  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 
Mark 13:14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
 
I have also transcribed and posted the "Prophesy Study of Revelation" listed by chapter and verse at the following menu link. The menu lists individual chapters to click on, and once there verses are pretty much numerical and easy to locate for study. I hope it is a source of help to you also, and I'll still be around to answer anything I can.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/revelation-prophesy-study-link-directory/

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Thanks.  Two things though:

1.  I was hoping for a listing of the verse numbers that apply to the first part of the tribulation and the second part of the tribulation in Matthew 24.  I'll probably have some specific questions pertaining to the divide of things.

2.  Do you believe Luke 21 is discussing the same thing as Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  The disciple's question is the same: (a simple yes or no shall suffice)

Matthew 24:1-31 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.   
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.   
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?   

Mark 13:1-4 - And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!   
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.   
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,   
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?       

Luke 21:5-75 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,   
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.   
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?   

Beddie-bye time...

Quote from: Newbie100 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:13:48

Thanks.  Two things though:

1.  I was hoping for a listing of the verse numbers that apply to the first part of the tribulation and the second part of the tribulation in Matthew 24.  I'll probably have some specific questions pertaining to the divide of things.

2.  Do you believe Luke 21 is discussing the same thing as Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  The disciple's question is the same: (a simple yes or no shall suffice)

I would have to go back through all of Luke Chapter Twenty-one to ensure it all applied the same as Matthew Chapter Twenty-four, but I think it does. I just noticed when researching some of this that I have never posted the study of Matthew Chapters Twenty-four and Twenty-five which I will proceed to do.

Its link is http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/matthew-chapters-24-25-study/

Night.

Quote from: larry2 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 08:33:24

The first resurrection is ongoing of all in Christ. There has been those caught up, and will continue to be just as you read the description the Apostle John gave of things to come in Revelation. There will be a taking away of those alive to be in the second resurrection at the beginning of the millennium; Matthew 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

My thoughts.
 

You are teaching error as the resurrection of all the saints that are sleeping is at the end and has not happened yet.

2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The ressurection of the saints from the grave is at the second coming, and it is in bodily form like Lazurus, not some spirit floating around, and it is from the grave not being plucked from the fields or rooftop.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus taught that even if people died they would be raised up.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And when he died at the cross, there were firstfruits of the saints that were raised from the grave.

Matthew 27:52-53
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The saints who believed would be ressurected by Christ just as he was resurrected in bodily form.

Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:12-13
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

And this was being taught as a firm doctrine to the belivers along with the final judgement.

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Some did not believe even back then in resurrection from the grave of the saints as seen in these verses.

Acts 17:32
And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Acts 23:6-8
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.7And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.
8For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.


And here we have the two resurrections at the end of time in a nutshell..

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

and supported by many verses..
Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And the first resurection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear. The wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The future 70th week decreed for Israel gives the divide at the mid point

The Lord will come suddenly with no warning to judge an intransigent unbelieving world ..... and then He will appear just after those days of tribulation and will rule the earth in person for 1000 years from Jerusalem

There will be 1260 days + 1260 days = 2520 days + another 30 days to finish

Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions will invade at the mid point of this time frame and then occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount during the next 1260 days [42 months]

2/3rds of Israel composed of unbelievers will be killed and lost forever .... the other one third of a believing remnant [the many of Daniel 9:24-27] will survive

The first 1260 days will see the rapid rise of this beast and his maneuverings to consolidate his Middle Eastern holdings

The Lord will then turn on this beast and his followers and destroy them in the next 30 days at Armageddon

He will then appear to the mortal survivors on the earth of this coming time of tribulation and separate believers from unbelievers .... those found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is the Lord's focus upon Israel [not His church of today] .... and He is speaking of the time of the end of this present age during the coming 70thy week

..... He is continuing with the same unfulfilled portion of the visions of His Bible prophets that is yet to come

Israel is positioned in the land today for experiencing the time of Jacob's trouble spoken of in Jeremiah 30

The Lord's church composed of a few Israelites and mostly Gentiles of the nations will be made immortal just prior to the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel ....these will consist of all believers who follow the Lord [both O.T. and N.T] ..... both those asleep and those living at the time

The balance of those who become believers during the tribulation period of the 70th week and who are killed will be made immortal at the end the 70th week and added to those who will rule with the Lord over His millennial kingdom on the earth

All of the unfulfilled visions of the Lord and His prophets point to the same exact time frame and I will answer any reasonable questions and give the associated scriptures

Quote from: larry2 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 08:33:24

The first resurrection is ongoing of all in Christ. There has been those caught up, and will continue to be just as you read the description the Apostle John gave of things to come in Revelation. There will be a taking away of those alive to be in the second resurrection at the beginning of the millennium; Matthew 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

My thoughts.
 

Quote from: Hobie on Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 05:09:08

You are teaching error as the resurrection of all the saints that are sleeping is at the end and has not happened yet.

Hi Hobie. I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but do you consider those that rose in Matthew 27:51-53 to be a part of the first resurrection? What of those of Revelation 6:9?

Matthew 27:51-53  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 
Revelation 6:9-10  And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Thanks.

Larry2 asked Hobie:

QuoteHi Hobie. I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but do you consider those that rose in Matthew 27:51-53 to be a part of the first resurrection?

Greetings Larry,

Those who rose with Christ would indeed be in the first resurrection. It says that they came out of the tombs "with His rising." They were the firstfruits with Christ.

Paul said,

"Each man in his own group, Christ a firstfruit...." Paul used the Greek "tagma" which was the word for a "group of soldiers." Therefore, the first resurrection constituted Christ and the group that was raised with Him.

thinker

Quote from: Linker on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 06:01:25There is the resurrection to eternal life ..... and the resurrection to the second death of the human spirit

There are more than one of the first noted in scripture

There is only one of the second

Christ is clear when He will raise His saints

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And the Jews knew this truth..

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.