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Hi...I need some impartial input from folks. I'm 47 and on my second marriage, my home was paid for before I was married. We are now considering a move...no new money involved... and my wife wants her name on the deed of the next home. I'm not comfortable with this for obvious reasons...things happen and you sometimes don't see it coming. What would you do? I'll leave the question there and wait for replies. I also put the question in form of a poll for quick response.

Thanks

Does either of you have children that might be affected by a death or divorce? Something similar to a prenuptial agreement may be in order considering the value of the home now versus any increased equity from a future sale. Spend the money for a good lawyer. The very nature of your question doesn't instill in me a great deal of confidence you have in the stability of your marriage.

I have 3 children from my previous marriage. As far as confidence in my current marriage goes I understand your point, but I think if the question of confidence or the lack of it is removed from the equation and a decision is made based on common sense then... the answer is clear. I guess I'm just looking for someone who may have a great point or observation that I haven't thought of yet. Her concern is if I died she wouldn't have a home...that's what life insurance is for. A half million dollar policy takes care of that. Thanks for the replies and opinions. 

I see a lot of people have read the post but so far only one response, so I put it in the form of a poll to make it easy to state your opinion. Hopefully I'll get more feedback that way.

Thanks

Part of the problem may be the forum in which you posted your question. You will probably get more response in the marriage forum, so I will move it there.

I personally would be appauled if I my husband didn't want to make sure I had a roof over my head and my name on it. That's not marriage. If you are that worried that your wife may "Take you" for something, you probably should not have married her. She should not be punished for anything that happened in your first marriage and divorce. When you move from your home into a home where you both live, it should be "our" home. Your kids or family should not be able to come and put her out should something happen to you. Besides, maybe you don't realize that anything you buy AFTER you are married is half hers by law??  If anything happens like divorce, it won't matter that her name isn't on it, she can force you to sell it and give her half of the proceeds. So you really are only denying her a home in the event of your death.

I think you have it backwards, I think you should provide for your children with an insurance policy and leave the home to her, put it in her name, show good faith that you married her before God. Read up on Biblical marriage today.

I didn't ask my husband to put my name on any of the three homes we have owned. I didn't have to. You may wound her deeply by this. Don't you want to be married to her? Don't you love her? Do you not understand the Biblical admonishment to love her as you love yourself, and even lay down your life for her?  You sure are hanging on to your life as I see it.

The only reason she would want her name on the deed is if she too is planning on an "exit strategy" from the marriage. If you die all your assets go to your wife anyway (except a few states). Easily remedied by a will.

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Jun 13, 2012 - 05:58:39
The only reason she would want her name on the deed is if she too is planning on an "exit strategy" from the marriage. If you die all your assets go to your wife anyway (except a few states). Easily remedied by a will.

This may be true, but given our lack of information I would caution; her "exit strategy" may come from concerns in the event of his death.  Is it appropriate to question her motives given our limited knowledge?

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The life insurance will pay for her needs, but it ignores the possibility of her being uprooted at a very difficult time in her life.  Security in one's home is a valid need.

Distrust is a seed better left unsown.  Complete faith in one's marriage is never misplaced; should it fail, one can still take solace that he/she gave it his/her best shot.

As suggested by kensington a policy with the children named is a good solution to address the concern for them.

My thoughts, nothing more,
Carey.  

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Jun 13, 2012 - 05:58:39
The only reason she would want her name on the deed is if she too is planning on an "exit strategy" from the marriage. If you die all your assets go to your wife anyway (except a few states). Easily remedied by a will.

What are you talking about. This is nonsense. She is his wife. It means nothing of the sort. My name has been on 3 houses and it was never about an exit... it was and still is about marriage. Why should men own everything? 

I've been married 26 years, exit strategy.... what a joke. You judge what you do not know. Such an accusation towards this woman is just wrong. It's rude. And arrogant. She is married to him. He is married to her. They will own the house.

According to his own words, she is worried about what happens in the event of death, not divorce. He is the one who is insecure in the event of divorce. Evidently, he needs to be more secure in his choice for a wife. This is caused by his own self doubt. He is doubting that he married her for life. He is doubting his vows. He is not sure of the marriage, but she seems to be, enough that she is willing have her name on the house with him.

Thanks for all the responses...I find it very interesting how people can see the same situation in so many different ways. I don't mean to be rude but Kensington you sound like a very angry person. You would be APPAULED....you say I'm worried she will "Take me" for something...you say..she shouldn't be PUNISHED for anything that happened in your first marriage and divorce. I didn't say what happened in my first marriage...you're assuming. A half million dollar life insurance policy denies her a roof over her head if I die? Did you and your husband buy all those homes together while married? We didn't. You said..Why should men own everything? Really?? When did this become men vs. women? That statement tells me everything I need to know. Chip on shoulder? When I met her she had a $100,000 mortgage. She now has no mortgage payments at all and is debt free... she is better off financially today than she has ever been but I'm supposed to feel guilty because I payed my home off, before I met her, over the past 25 years and I'm a "MAN". You tell this guy "You judge what you do not know" but yet you've done a lot more judging and assuming than he did and then call HIM rude and arrogant...then you call me insecure and self doubting...again you sound very angry to me not to mention rude and arrogant. Then you say "He is not sure of the marriage, but she seems to be, enough that she is willing have her name on the house with him". Yes she is willing...it's paid for....no debt attached. I don't care what she is thinking...I don't believe she is trying to take me for anything but you seem to endorse any scenario that hangs the man out to dry in the event something goes wrong. Half million dollar life insurance policy covers her in case of my death....covers me if the marriage fails for any reason...everyone is insured including the MAN. Thank you Kensington...you helped me make my decision.

When I married my second husband, I had a house and he didnt(he let his ex have their house). I consider it to be our home, but what we have agreed in the will, is that if I die first, the house will go into the names of my three children. However he will be able to live there either untill he dies, or till he marries again( if he does) This way he can stay there as long as he needs to and my kids wont loose out on their inheritance like I did when my father left mum and his house to his second wife.
If you are concerned that your children may loose out, then why not leave some of the money from the life insurance to them, and the house to her. This way she wont have to worry about moving out just after you die(if you die first).

If you are concerned that she may leave you and demand half of the house, then maybe you need to trust God more and trust her more. I know that my husband would let me have the house if that happened, as that is the sort of man he is.

Chosenone, thank you for the respectful and classy response. I would not have a problem with the arrangement you have in case of death. My concern is if our relationship didn't work out for whatever reason. It's not so much a matter of trust, it's about reality and it's the way relationships end sometimes and how one of the two people involved will do anything they can to hurt the other...I've seen it more than once with friends and I've also experienced it first hand. The person you've known for years suddenly hates you and would deny you of air if they could...it's unbelievable to see that type of change happen in a person. I never thought that would happen to me and my beautiful family. Now I'm being asked to lay everything on the line...I can't start over as I'm not 25 years old any longer so if the worst scenerio happens and half of the home or estate I've worked for my entire adult life is gone because I'm a nice guy and want to instill trust in my wife and our relationship, I end up living in a camper. What about this...maybe she can trust ME. She married me because she loves ME, not because I have a house. Maybe I just rent this house out turning it into income and we finance another one together in our names with a new $150,000 mortgage....I'm thinking she would not like that because alot of new debt is attached...but it would be in both of our names....right? If she refuses what does that tell me?  Your husband sounds a little like me...if the tables were turned I would be very very uncomfortable telling my wife I have to be on the deed.   

Well my husband was joint owner of his house, and he was entitled to have some of it, but because his wife was determined to have it all for herself, he let her. He didn't think that God would want  him to fight for it in court, and he believes that God will restore what he gave up.That's what he is like. He trusts God. I don't worry about what will happen to the house, because neither of us will end this marriage.We both lost our spouses through no fault of our own after long first marriages, and it wont happen again.
Its only in death that I am making sure that my kids will get their inheritance if I should die first.He is in full agreement with this.

I am not sure that buying a whole new house with a large loan would be a good idea. Assuming that she is a similar age to you,does she have any money or assets at all? Can she contribute towards a  new home?

I was being slightly sarcastic when I suggested buying a home with a new mortgage, however I'm sure that while she insist on being on the deed and owning half of the estate that I've paid for over the last 25 years....she wouldn't be as exited about being on the deed if it meant being tied to a large mortgage....and yes, she makes more than 50K a year. I understand she wants security...so do I...and that is my point. How can everyone involved feel secure with the future no matter what? The estate remains separate and her security is in a large life insurance policy in case of my death. If she leaves me for the mailman...the mailman will not be living in my home. Why should I secure her future with the mailman? I appreciate everyone's opinion but I'm sorry I just don't understand some of them  ...it seems simple to me. A half million dollar policy buys a lot of security. Why would she even care about the house...this is her first time being married...fairytell wedding...very nice...she and her family were so happy she finally settled down... but it's not enough it seems. Once again...I do not believe she has any bad intentions....she loves me very much, but in my opinion if we live happily ever after does it matter who's name the house is in? I think sometimes these things are made out to be to complicated and people get their feelings hurt easily...it's not that complicated to me...very simple...make everyone involved feel secure with the situation...including me. Everything just seems much cleaner this way...everybody knows what goes where if this or that happens...no confusion.  

Quote from: steveruth on Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 23:01:40
I appreciate everyone's opinion but I'm sorry I just don't understand some of them  ...it seems simple to me.

When one believes marriage is till death, the question you pose is a no brainer.

I understand your opinion, it makes perfect sense, it is entirely logical;  if there is a possibility of the marriage not surviving until death.  Protecting yourself and your children may indeed be the most prudent choice especially with divorce rates being what they are.

Perhaps you did not get the answer you were expecting, but given this is a Christian website, and given the Christian outlook on marriage, the poll results should not be all that shocking.


Kindest regards,
Carey.

Quote from: steveruth on Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 10:01:09
Thanks for all the responses...I find it very interesting how people can see the same situation in so many different ways. I don't mean to be rude but Kensington you sound like a very angry person. You would be APPAULED....you say I'm worried she will "Take me" for something...you say..she shouldn't be PUNISHED for anything that happened in your first marriage and divorce. I didn't say what happened in my first marriage...you're assuming. A half million dollar life insurance policy denies her a roof over her head if I die? Did you and your husband buy all those homes together while married? We didn't. You said..Why should men own everything? Really?? When did this become men vs. women? That statement tells me everything I need to know. Chip on shoulder? When I met her she had a $100,000 mortgage. She now has no mortgage payments at all and is debt free... she is better off financially today than she has ever been but I'm supposed to feel guilty because I payed my home off, before I met her, over the past 25 years and I'm a "MAN". You tell this guy "You judge what you do not know" but yet you've done a lot more judging and assuming than he did and then call HIM rude and arrogant...then you call me insecure and self doubting...again you sound very angry to me not to mention rude and arrogant. Then you say "He is not sure of the marriage, but she seems to be, enough that she is willing have her name on the house with him". Yes she is willing...it's paid for....no debt attached. I don't care what she is thinking...I don't believe she is trying to take me for anything but you seem to endorse any scenario that hangs the man out to dry in the event something goes wrong. Half million dollar life insurance policy covers her in case of my death....covers me if the marriage fails for any reason...everyone is insured including the MAN. Thank you Kensington...you helped me make my decision.

Yes, I would be appauled, shocked, and hurt that the man I married and vowed to be with for life, didn't want my name on his property. I'd be very upset that he thought protecting himself from something that happened in the past, that had nothing to do with me was the most important thing.

I judged what your shared. You said your want to protect yourself, you put it out there. She did not, she did not come on here and say she was looking for an exit stradegy... YOU DID. You are looking for protection in the event of an exit.

It appears as though it's fine for her to be in your house, in your kitchen, contributing to the household monies with her income, and in your bed, but she can't be on the house. Yes, this is easy to read. Does she know you don't love her with the Love Jesus commanded? 

And if you let what I or anyone here said really make your decision, then you will be wrong. SHE should be the one you consider in this decision. The idea that you came here to find people to tell you to NOT put her name on the house speaks volumes.  But, its evident the majority of those who voted agree with me. 8-2 said honor your wife. But, don't worry, I won't feel guilty if you refuse to honor her to spite me. That will be strickly between you and God sir. I'm shocked you threw that in, but I guess it really could happen.

I understand your point of view...marriage is supposed to be till death. There is actually a lot of details I have intentionally left out because I wanted to get clean opinions of the situation with the details left out. However my knowledge of the details steers my decision towards my way of thinking big time. I wish I could say I've never been more in love...or that I just love spending time with her but that's not the case...sadly. We've had a very rough 5 years...when we met she had just come out of a relationship where the guy beat her really badly..she was suffering from ptsd from it....using drugs to cope with it...overdosed 3 or 4 times sending her to the hospital once resulting in a mental evaluation for about a week. She has been to 5 different therapist trying to cope with everything. I STUCK BY HER SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME. This condition resulted in confrontations and arguments like I've never experienced before. She has inflicted harm to herself and threatened even killing herself. At one point when we were on the verge of divorce she threatened to do harm to my business. I was fairly fresh from my divorce when I met her and took her under my wing to help her as opposed to turning my back. Our relationship got closer because she is a good person...smart and pretty etc...I thought she would recover or change...but her personal issues appear to be permanent and I'm not sure if I can deal with them the rest of my life as they have effected my relationship with my children and family. So in the event that I give up one day I already know how she will react...by doing as much harm to me as possible....she has already threatened me in that manner once. That's just a quick overview of the details....I hate to lay all that out there but it's just not as simple as it appears.   

Quote from: steveruth on Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 17:07:46
I understand your point of view...marriage is supposed to be till death. There is actually a lot of details I have intentionally left out because I wanted to get clean opinions of the situation with the details left out. However my knowledge of the details steers my decision towards my way of thinking big time. I wish I could say I've never been more in love...or that I just love spending time with her but that's not the case...sadly. We've had a very rough 5 years...when we met she had just come out of a relationship where the guy beat her really badly..she was suffering from ptsd from it....using drugs to cope with it...overdosed 3 or 4 times sending her to the hospital once resulting in a mental evaluation for about a week. She has been to 5 different therapist trying to cope with everything. I STUCK BY HER SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME. This condition resulted in confrontations and arguments like I've never experienced before. She has inflicted harm to herself and threatened even killing herself. At one point when we were on the verge of divorce she threatened to do harm to my business. I was fairly fresh from my divorce when I met her and took her under my wing to help her as opposed to turning my back. Our relationship got closer because she is a good person...smart and pretty etc...I thought she would recover or change...but her personal issues appear to be permanent and I'm not sure if I can deal with them the rest of my life as they have effected my relationship with my children and family. So in the event that I give up one day I already know how she will react...by doing as much harm to me as possible....she has already threatened me in that manner once. That's just a quick overview of the details....I hate to lay all that out there but it's just not as simple as it appears.   

Did you say, "for better or for worse"... "In sickness and in health"?

What did you think "For worse" was?  What did you think "in sickness" was?

It's really simple, you do not love her enough to go the distance that Jesus laid out for us all in marriage. And for you, the money is a Big deal.  I'm glad she is smart and pretty... cause if she was homely and dumb... you would have already have kicked her to the curb.

Steveruth, we all make mistakes, and sometimes we even make them in the choice of the person we marry. That is not to say run to the divorce courts when troubles hit. It is to say that we are imperfect people living in a fallen world and we make choices in that context. But there is grace. So we do our best to extend grace to our spouses, just as God extends grace to us. I hope you both give your marriage the attention and nurturing it needs to survive.

My current husband and I are looking at buying a place together. We each came into it with a certain amount of down payment and we will both be contributing to the mortgage. If I die or we are divorced, the house will be sold and I (or my son, if I die) will get everything I put into it from before the marriage which is my portion of the down payment, plus interest. My husband will also get his original down payment back plus the same interest. Whatever is left will be split between us (or them, if I die). This arrangement should work for us.

Did you and your current wife sign a prenup? Do you have wills? What seems reasonable to me is if you each retain all you entered the marriage with, and then split 50/50 whatever you make during the marriage.

Quote from: steveruth on Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 17:07:46
I understand your point of view...marriage is supposed to be till death. There is actually a lot of details I have intentionally left out because I wanted to get clean opinions of the situation with the details left out. However my knowledge of the details steers my decision towards my way of thinking big time. I wish I could say I've never been more in love...or that I just love spending time with her but that's not the case...sadly. We've had a very rough 5 years...when we met she had just come out of a relationship where the guy beat her really badly..she was suffering from ptsd from it....using drugs to cope with it...overdosed 3 or 4 times sending her to the hospital once resulting in a mental evaluation for about a week. She has been to 5 different therapist trying to cope with everything. I STUCK BY HER SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME. This condition resulted in confrontations and arguments like I've never experienced before. She has inflicted harm to herself and threatened even killing herself. At one point when we were on the verge of divorce she threatened to do harm to my business. I was fairly fresh from my divorce when I met her and took her under my wing to help her as opposed to turning my back. Our relationship got closer because she is a good person...smart and pretty etc...I thought she would recover or change...but her personal issues appear to be permanent and I'm not sure if I can deal with them the rest of my life as they have effected my relationship with my children and family. So in the event that I give up one day I already know how she will react...by doing as much harm to me as possible....she has already threatened me in that manner once. That's just a quick overview of the details....I hate to lay all that out there but it's just not as simple as it appears.   

Oh dear it seems that neither of you were anywhere near ready for another marriage at that time. Also she has many many issues that I am guessing go way way back. However you did choose to marry her and you did make promises to her knowing what a mess she was in.

What happened to her paid off house?  Unless I'm misunderstanding things, she had a home too, right?  So, the new house will be purchased with the money from your old house, but not with any of her money?  And she makes an income of 50k.  I'm assuming you have an income too.

If you're not going to put her name on the house, then I don't think she should be responsible for any house related expenses.  You can cover the mortgage, property taxes, any upkeep or upgrades.  And both of you can split the cost of groceries, untilities, etc.  I don't see why she should have to pay for expenses related to something that she owns no part in.  I understand that the life insurance is in place, but is it a whole life policy, or is it term only?  What if you aren't eligible to renew for health related reasons?  Then she has no house, and no life insurance. 

There was actually an elderly couple nearby (they weren't married, but lived together for 20 years).  He died of cancer.  She took care of him.  And shortly after he died, his adult children kicked her out, and sold the house.  But they weren't married, so I'm not sure what would have happened if they were. 

But every state is different.  If this is truly what you want to do, and you're unwilling to compromise, then you each should retain separate lawyers so both of you are protected, and set up some sort of post-nup. 

I see where you're coming from, and you can't predict how things will go.  But if I were in her situation, and my husband were setting himself up for a worse-case scenario, I would be wanting to protect myself too.  There's no reason why you should be protected and she shouldn't be.     

it all comes down to whether or not you trust her.  if there is not trust then you are in for a very painful marriage.  the word teaches as the old saying goes "what women want women get"  we are a bride of Christ and Christ is the groom.  does Christ deny us anything?  the answer is no Christ does not as long as it is in accordance to God's word.  so why should we deny our wives what they want?  Christ is our example on how we should act.  by giving them what they want makes women more willing to stand by you in good times or bad.  there are times you should not give women what they want just like Christ does not give us everything we want because it will spoil us(lead us astray).  now this is all a teaching in and of itself and if you are interested in it i can expand upon what i already stated if you have questions

God bless

Her home was not paid for. She sold and kept very little the profit. I have paid all expenses for the last two years...taxes, insurance, maintenance etc...never asked her for anything. When we married she went from $100,000 in mortgage debt to debt free almost overnight  with no mortgage or home related expenses with 50k a year income ...she's done very well as far as I'm concerned. We could very easily start to build an estate together from this point.

Why not put her on the deeds but agree that she pays half the mortgage and household bills? Does she now have any savings that she can put towards the house? I believe that in any marriage all earnings are joint ones.I believe in joint accounts and that no money belongs to either no matter who earns it. Why was so she so vastly in debt?

The debt was her home. There will be no mortgage because I'll be paying cash for the house.

Before you buy, why not take the amount of money you had upon entering into the marriage and put it towards trust funds for your children? Keep enough out that you can put a small down payment on a place. If she is making what you say, she should also be able to put a small down payment on, then the two of you will have equal responsibility in maintaining the mortgage and the home, and you will have protected what was yours from prior to the marriage. If this marriage ends, then you can split whatever you both invest together. There is no reason she should not have to contribute to the welfare of the home, just as equally as you - unless one of you has children still living there, in which case the parent with the resident children should be contributing a little more than the one with non-resident children. Imo, this protects your money that you entered the marriage with, but still allows the two of you to build a life together and have equality when (if) you ever divorce. It also protects your children from losing the inheritance that was theirs prior to your second marriage.

Quote from: steveruth on Thu Jun 21, 2012 - 22:32:58
The debt was her home. There will be no mortgage because I'll be paying cash for the house.

Is there any reason why she doesnt contribute to the bills and housegold espenses? What does she do with all of her money?
What janice said makes sense. Give your children some of what the house costs(maybe half) and get a  mortgage for the other half that you both pay, or she alone pays. Then both contribute to the bills and food and other expenses.Then the house can be in joint names.

Quote from: larry2 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 - 22:47:18
The very nature of your question doesn't instill in me a great deal of confidence you have in the stability of your marriage.

What he said...

Quote from: steveruth on Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 17:07:46
I understand your point of view...marriage is supposed to be till death. There is actually a lot of details I have intentionally left out because I wanted to get clean opinions of the situation with the details left out. However my knowledge of the details steers my decision towards my way of thinking big time. I wish I could say I've never been more in love...or that I just love spending time with her but that's not the case...sadly. We've had a very rough 5 years...when we met she had just come out of a relationship where the guy beat her really badly..she was suffering from ptsd from it....using drugs to cope with it...overdosed 3 or 4 times sending her to the hospital once resulting in a mental evaluation for about a week. She has been to 5 different therapist trying to cope with everything. I STUCK BY HER SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME. This condition resulted in confrontations and arguments like I've never experienced before. She has inflicted harm to herself and threatened even killing herself. At one point when we were on the verge of divorce she threatened to do harm to my business. I was fairly fresh from my divorce when I met her and took her under my wing to help her as opposed to turning my back. Our relationship got closer because she is a good person...smart and pretty etc...I thought she would recover or change...but her personal issues appear to be permanent and I'm not sure if I can deal with them the rest of my life as they have effected my relationship with my children and family. So in the event that I give up one day I already know how she will react...by doing as much harm to me as possible....she has already threatened me in that manner once. That's just a quick overview of the details....I hate to lay all that out there but it's just not as simple as it appears.

Brother,

So sorry you find yourself in this unpredictable marriage...

There is One though that we can always count on...I know Him as my Friend; others know Him as a God...or their God...still other refer to Him as Jesus.  Jesus gives us clear instruction as husbands; we are to honor our wife, love her as our own body...Paul even goes so far as to say we are to love her as Christ loved His church.  When once we trust God...and listen to His instruction; the world will fade away...the concerns, the cares, the money, the home, what is fair and what is not.  Our Lord never trusted human nature...because He knew what is in the heart of men and women; however, He trusted absolutely what the grace of God could do for anyone.

If we put our trust in our spouse...we will end up despairing, bitter, without hope.  However, if you have a friend in Jesus...and trust God first; your life will have peace, even through the darkest hours...because His light will always shine through and bring hope.  I could go on and on about how the world is not fair, how my life was not fair...and, how when you do trust God...you put yourself out there at risk, a doormat so to speak for the world to trample on.  Regardless...in the end; God lifts us up...and we stand victorious in Him.  His love never fails...His faith can move mountains...His hope is real.  I would simply ask you to seek God...read His Word...pray for direction; trust Him first!

What I have learned is...if the world tells us one thing...God will tell us the exact opposite.  SO...we need to unlearn; and become that of a child and God.  Remember...we are redeemed in Him...regardless of everything here on earth; we win!

God Bless you in your seeking Him...