Christian Forums

Quote from: ChristNU on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 06:13:51

Quote from: The Third One on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 02:37:00
A dead Jesus hanging on a cross cannot save anyone - and there is no power in a piece of wood. When Jesus cried, "It is finished," from the cross as He was dying, it was a cry of victory. He had set in motion all of God's intent for the restoration of mankind. Redemption, whereby we are "bought with a price" (I Cor. 6:20; 7:23) which has been "paid in full" by the death of Jesus, is the remedial aspect, whereas regeneration is the restorative factor wherein the life of God once again indwells the spirit of a man who is receptive to such in faith.

The "we" is all who have been made alive with Him. He lives, and because He lives He can offer life to every man, woman and child. And His life is the only solution to death.


ChristNU,

To merely "set

The cross is the critical pivot point in Christianity where the flesh man is no more and only the Spirit man remains. Once Jesus was no more assessable to the ones who followed him in the flesh, they had to rely on Spirit for their understanding, and this is Gods origional intent. Jesus said himself that in that day, you will ask me nohing but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it to you.

I think the very thing that keeps people from understanding the whole purpose of God sending Jesus is they hang onto that flesh man instead of letting him go and receiving in themselves the same Spirit that man had and left behind. His flesh becoming a stumbling block for Gods intent for us to have His same Spirit, and be one with God as Jesus was one with Him and this is the very reason his flesh is gone.

We rely on Jesus to show us the way just as those did who walked with him in the flesh, but there has to be at some point where we see God as Spirit and not a man, in order to have in you that what Jesus had in himself. That god of flesh has to be extinguished in order to receive in you the God of Spirit and be one with Him, and the purpose of the cross is death to that flesh god and resurrection of that Spirit God that was in that man. And it is Christ in you who is raised, you being that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach us to be and give to us to be and that comes only with the death to our flesh mentality, carnality, a setting aside our flesh selves and resurrection of Christ in you. Behold the kingdom of God is within you just as Jesus said it is.   

Jesus cast himself down from that poinacle man places him on and walked among the common, but man in his doctrines place him right back upon it where he is not accessable at all.

Quote from: GaryMac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 09:46:39
The cross is the critical pivot point in Christianity where the flesh man is no more and only the Spirit man remains. Once Jesus was no more assessable to the ones who followed him in the flesh, they had to rely on Spirit for their understanding, and this is Gods origional intent. Jesus said himself that in that day, you will ask me nohing but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it to you.

I think the very thing that keeps people from understanding the whole purpose of God sending Jesus is they hang onto that flesh man instead of letting him go and receiving in themselves the same Spirit that man had and left behind. His flesh becoming a stumbling block for Gods intent for us to have His same Spirit, and be one with God as Jesus was one with Him and this is the very reason his flesh is gone.

We rely on Jesus to show us the way just as those did who walked with him in the flesh, but there has to be at some point where we see God as Spirit and not a man, in order to have in you that what Jesus had in himself. That god of flesh has to be extinguished in order to receive in you the God of Spirit and be one with Him, and the purpose of the cross is death to that flesh god and resurrection of that Spirit God that was in that man. And it is Christ in you who is raised, you being that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach us to be and give to us to be and that comes only with the death to our flesh mentality, carnality, a setting aside our flesh selves and resurrection of Christ in you. Behold the kingdom of God is within you just as Jesus said it is.   

Jesus cast himself down from that poinacle man places him on and walked among the common, but man in his doctrines place him right back upon it where he is not accessable at all.

So in addition to denying the diety of Jesus Christ and the Trinity, you also deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Quote from: ChristNU on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 10:00:29

Quote from: GaryMac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 09:46:39
The cross is the critical pivot point in Christianity where the flesh man is no more and only the Spirit man remains. Once Jesus was no more assessable to the ones who followed him in the flesh, they had to rely on Spirit for their understanding, and this is Gods origional intent. Jesus said himself that in that day, you will ask me nohing but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it to you.

I think the very thing that keeps people from understanding the whole purpose of God sending Jesus is they hang onto that flesh man instead of letting him go and receiving in themselves the same Spirit that man had and left behind. His flesh becoming a stumbling block for Gods intent for us to have His same Spirit, and be one with God as Jesus was one with Him and this is the very reason his flesh is gone.

We rely on Jesus to show us the way just as those did who walked with him in the flesh, but there has to be at some point where we see God as Spirit and not a man, in order to have in you that what Jesus had in himself. That god of flesh has to be extinguished in order to receive in you the God of Spirit and be one with Him, and the purpose of the cross is death to that flesh god and resurrection of that Spirit God that was in that man. And it is Christ in you who is raised, you being that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach us to be and give to us to be and that comes only with the death to our flesh mentality, carnality, a setting aside our flesh selves and resurrection of Christ in you. Behold the kingdom of God is within you just as Jesus said it is.   

Jesus cast himself down from that poinacle man places him on and walked among the common, but man in his doctrines place him right back upon it where he is not accessable at all.

So in addition to denying the diety of Jesus Christ and the Trinity, you also deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?

First, I do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ, His deity is at work in me. Second --no I do not deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ, He is risen in me. Third I do not reject the trinity, My Father is God, I am His son and His Spirit resides in me, we eare one, these three are one. See John 17.

Because of the absence of His resurrection in you you will never understand what the risen Christ is about until He is risen. Untill then you only wait for that risen Christ to happen. I have experienced the risen Christ and we all have who He is risen in us making us alive in Him and one with God as we are suposed to be. That cant happen without Christ risen in you. It is you who is suposed to be that person of Christ.

Quote from: GaryMac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 11:19:26

Quote from: ChristNU on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 10:00:29

Quote from: GaryMac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 09:46:39
The cross is the critical pivot point in Christianity where the flesh man is no more and only the Spirit man remains. Once Jesus was no more assessable to the ones who followed him in the flesh, they had to rely on Spirit for their understanding, and this is Gods origional intent. Jesus said himself that in that day, you will ask me nohing but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it to you.

I think the very thing that keeps people from understanding the whole purpose of God sending Jesus is they hang onto that flesh man instead of letting him go and receiving in themselves the same Spirit that man had and left behind. His flesh becoming a stumbling block for Gods intent for us to have His same Spirit, and be one with God as Jesus was one with Him and this is the very reason his flesh is gone.

We rely on Jesus to show us the way just as those did who walked with him in the flesh, but there has to be at some point where we see God as Spirit and not a man, in order to have in you that what Jesus had in himself. That god of flesh has to be extinguished in order to receive in you the God of Spirit and be one with Him, and the purpose of the cross is death to that flesh god and resurrection of that Spirit God that was in that man. And it is Christ in you who is raised, you being that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach us to be and give to us to be and that comes only with the death to our flesh mentality, carnality, a setting aside our flesh selves and resurrection of Christ in you. Behold the kingdom of God is within you just as Jesus said it is.   

Jesus cast himself down from that poinacle man places him on and walked among the common, but man in his doctrines place him right back upon it where he is not accessable at all.

So in addition to denying the diety of Jesus Christ and the Trinity, you also deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?

First, I do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ, His deity is at work in me. Second --no I do not deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ, He is risen in me. Third I do not reject the trinity, My Father is God, I am His son and His Spirit resides in me, we eare one, these three are one. See John 17.

Because of the absence of His resurrection in you you will never understand what the risen Christ is about until He is risen. Untill then you only wait for that risen Christ to happen. I have experienced the risen Christ and we all have who He is risen in us making us alive in Him and one with God as we are suposed to be. That cant happen without Christ risen in you. It is you who is suposed to be that person of Christ.

I have to tell ya dude, this is some seriously disturbing stuff coming from you. You simply do not get to make up your own definitions and then proclaim you are in agreement with Christianity based on those perverted definitions. You can have your own definitions, just do not try and proclaim them to be in agreement with what Christians believe. Seriously disturbing.....

ChristNU,

Your Q.  "You are working very hard to cling to only half of the gospel to the exclusion of the other half, why?

Why all the disdain for the Pauline scriptures? Why do you rail against Gods written word as if you have the option of taking what suits you and rejecting what does not? Where is all this vitriol coming from?

I guess that's the difference in being a dogmatized Christian and accepting one hundred percent with no "if,

Quote from: ChristNU on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 20:53:22
Why all the disdain for the Pauline scriptures? Why do you rail against Gods written word as if you have the option of taking what suits you and rejecting what does not? Where is all this vitriol coming from?

ChristNU,

Where is all this vitriol coming from?
 
The better question would be:  Where is all this indifference to the truth coming from?

Much of what Paul wrote holds perfectly true by the Holy Spirit.  Paul was operating at a particularly high level of spirituality.  And, at that level, both sides had equal and, at many times, constant access to him:  spirits of Light as well as spirits of Darkness.  Paul was the first Biblical writer to declare that the desolate one can appear as an angel of Light.  He didn't come up with that little tidbit by reading the back of a Fruit-Loops box, nor did he get it from anything written in Genesis up unto the Gospel of St. John (in the order as WE know it).  He shared that bit of information with us from his personal experience.  The spirits HAVE to be tested. 

ALL of what Paul wrote, from Romans 6:15 and on, should be diligently tested.  What Paul wrote that does not hold true is ascertained by the testimony of the Holy Spirit.  It is certainly NOT held in question by "what suits me and what does not suit me.

Quote from: Tyler on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 21:25:17
I guess that's the difference in being a dogmatized Christian and accepting one hundred percent with no "if,

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 05:36:25

Quote from: ChristNU on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 20:53:22
Why all the disdain for the Pauline scriptures? Why do you rail against Gods written word as if you have the option of taking what suits you and rejecting what does not? Where is all this vitriol coming from?

ChristNU,

Where is all this vitriol coming from?
 
The better question would be:  Where is all this indifference to the truth coming from?

Much of what Paul wrote holds perfectly true by the Holy Spirit.  Paul was operating at a particularly high level of spirituality.  And, at that level, both sides had equal and, at many times, constant access to him:  spirits of Light as well as spirits of Darkness.  Paul was the first Biblical writer to declare that the desolate one can appear as an angel of Light.  He didn't come up with that little tidbit by reading the back of a Fruit-Loops box, nor did he get it from anything written in Genesis up unto the Gospel of St. John (in the order as WE know it).  He shared that bit of information with us from his personal experience.  The spirits HAVE to be tested.  

ALL of what Paul wrote, from Romans 6:15 and on, should be diligently tested.  What Paul wrote that does not hold true is ascertained by the testimony of the Holy Spirit.  It is certainly NOT held in question by "what suits me and what does not suit me.

Hi again, ChristNU,

The Apostle Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

No doubt.   I'll repeat, much of what Paul wrote holds perfectly true by the Holy Spirit. 

It is the written word of God, it is that against which all other "spirits" are tested.

Really?  So you test the Holy Spirit AGAINST Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  The Pentateuch, the major prophets, the Psalms of David, the wisdom of Solomon, all tested against Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  And whenever there are discrepancies between what Paul says and what Jesus says, you test the Gospels and the red printed Word that comes from the mouth of our Lord and Savior AGAINST Paul, Paul, again, set aside as the Holy standard?
   
There are no contradictions or conflicts within it, there are only gaps in your own understanding.

Whatever gets you through the night. 

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:28:06
Hi again, ChristNU,

The Apostle Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

No doubt.   I'll repeat, much of what Paul wrote holds perfectly true by the Holy Spirit. 

It is the written word of God, it is that against which all other "spirits" are tested.

Really?  So you test the Holy Spirit AGAINST Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  The Pentateuch, the major prophets, the Psalms of David, the wisdom of Solomon, all tested against Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  And whenever there are discrepancies between what Paul says and what Jesus says, you test the Gospels and the red printed Word that comes from the mouth of our Lord and Savior AGAINST Paul, Paul, again, set aside as the Holy standard?
   
There are no contradictions or conflicts within it, there are only gaps in your own understanding.

Whatever gets you through the night. 

It is the written word of God that all is tested against, of which the Pauline scriptures are. All of the bible is the inspired word of God, not just part or "much" of it. There are no discrepancies between what Paul writes and what Jesus says. Once again, if you see what appear to be discrepancies , or contradictions or conflicts, it is due to gaps in your own understanding.

Quote from: ChristNU on Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 13:32:09

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 23, 2012 - 12:28:06
Hi again, ChristNU,

The Apostle Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

No doubt.   I'll repeat, much of what Paul wrote holds perfectly true by the Holy Spirit. 

It is the written word of God, it is that against which all other "spirits" are tested.

Really?  So you test the Holy Spirit AGAINST Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  The Pentateuch, the major prophets, the Psalms of David, the wisdom of Solomon, all tested against Paul, Paul being set apart as the Holy standard?  And whenever there are discrepancies between what Paul says and what Jesus says, you test the Gospels and the red printed Word that comes from the mouth of our Lord and Savior AGAINST Paul, Paul, again, set aside as the Holy standard?
   
There are no contradictions or conflicts within it, there are only gaps in your own understanding.

Whatever gets you through the night. 

It is the written word of God that all is tested against, of which the Pauline scriptures are. All of the bible is the inspired word of God, not just part or "much" of it. There are no discrepancies between what Paul writes and what Jesus says. Once again, if you see what appear to be discrepancies , or contradictions or conflicts, it is due to gaps in your own understanding.

Okay ChristNU,

Perhaps you can set me straight.  Concerning the first of the many "gaps in my understanding

Quote from: The Third One on Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 03:28:30
Okay ChristNU,

Perhaps you can set me straight.  Concerning the first of the many "gaps in my understanding

Hello ChistNU,

What OF this man, "living with his father's wife,

The really sad thing is that you think you have a problem with Paul, but you don't...you have a problem with God.

Quote from: ChristNU on Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 16:28:03

The really sad thing is that you think you have a problem with Paul, but you don't...you have a problem with God.

Quite revealing, ChristNU,

That comment illustrates one of the huge differences between us.   I don't see Paul AS God.     

Quote from: The Third One on Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 18:03:36

Quote from: ChristNU on Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 16:28:03

The really sad thing is that you think you have a problem with Paul, but you don't...you have a problem with God.

Quite revealing, ChristNU,

That comment illustrates one of the huge differences between us.   I don't see Paul AS God.     

Hi TheThirdOne,

Can I just cut it and say that "Paul of Christianity" is the fulfillment of "King Saul of Israel"...even their names are the same. Paul was "God-ordained" (our Father gave the authorization)...just like God gave authorization to King Saul who was a punishment to Israel for wanting a king of flesh instead of him.

No...one shouldn't see Paul as God, but one may see the authority of God through the letters of Paul...and from what I read, that's what ChristNU appears to believe in his statement; that God worked the next phase of his plan through Paul.

----

I'll also like to respond to one of your previous posts and see what you think.

Quote from: The Third One on Sun Jun 24, 2012 - 16:19:13
The most important question I asked you, concerning this devilment, you did not answer.  Why aren't YOU practicing this "sacred

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 09, 2012 - 17:35:12
I have yet to meet any self-proclaimed Christian who has accepted one hundred percent with no "if,

Hello Yahshua,

I don't mind you "cutting in

Yahshua-2) 


(Hello again, Yahshua,)

(continued...)

Most of you (and some of you by your own admission) are DEAD.  I am one of the LIVING ONES.  Get the embalming fluid out of your ears and listen to what one who IS ALIVE is telling you.  Because I might not be able to help you THEN.  As Jesus said:  in the Gospel of St. Thomas, verse 59:  "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."

Even AT the very judgment, many of you WILL actually fret about accepting it 100% with no "if,

Yahshua-3


(Hello, yet again, Yahshua,)

(conclusion...)


You write:  "notice that John is called Christ's servant in Revelation 1:1 (for example)...and the word 'servant' means 'bond-slave.'

Quote from: white stone on Mon Jun 25, 2012 - 21:21:25

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 09, 2012 - 17:35:12
I have yet to meet any self-proclaimed Christian who has accepted one hundred percent with no "if,

Quote from: GaryMac on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 10:17:42

Listening to people who say they are just dirty ole sinners and will always be a sinner havent experienced what it is to be without sin and righteous.

You mean what it is to be decieved? This was written to believers:

1 Jn 1.8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

QuoteSeems in these the One who God does send to take away the sins -- somewhere along the line faild in these to do so, Christ failed them for His purpose for them.

Christ failed to take away their sin? ... somehow that just doesnt compute. Guess it sounds correct to some because by their testimony we know them.

Sin = falling short or in any way failing to hit the mark of God's righteousness and glory.

While we are saved from all sins past and present when we repent, that does not mean we will not sin again and subsequently need to repent again.

QuoteA sinner is of the devil. It is the manifestation of the Christ, Christ in you, that destroys this sin mentality.

Tell me, Do you believe everything EXACTLY correct according to the bible?

And can you forsee a situation where you sin if you do xxx and you sin if you DON'T do xxx?

Quote from: white stone on Mon Jun 25, 2012 - 21:21:25

Quote from: The Third One on Sat Jun 09, 2012 - 17:35:12
I have yet to meet any self-proclaimed Christian who has accepted one hundred percent with no "if,

Hello The Third One,

First off, thank you for your lengthy reply...and I DID take my time; thanks for the warning . But I didn't know I would spark so much venom from you, TTO...and three posts at that. It wasn't all venom (name calling; putting down, etc.) though, some of it was also you glorying in your own knowledge of scripture and other works  [rim shot].

...but can I ask you to bear a little fruit of "gentleness" next time? Since you profess to have the true spirit in you (as opposed to many of us who don't), I at minimum know that one with the true spirit would display the character of Christ by being little more loving and a little less judgmental, you know? Since such is the character that Christ displayed and since he said we would know true prophets verses false prophets by their fruits, I'd hope you'd at least want to feign the fruits of the spirit.

Also, In reading all you've shared, at first it seemed like attack, attack, attack...but in reading it again, it seems as though you're more so trying to convince yourself of these things...This may be a sign to you that some (not all) of what you believe isn't in harmony with the truth.

Many things you say don't harmonize with ALL the scriptures as a whole (which it must do), and then you promote other works and doctrines not supported by scripture. So I'll just limit my reply to the subject of Paul and leave you my peace.

----

I COMPLETELY agree with you on the point that many Christians idolize Paul...it's no different from today's believers idolizing other Priests, Evangelists, Pastors, Bishops, Arch-Bishops & Popes..and even "greater Theologians". To say a word against these "men of God" is tantamount to blasphemy for many believers.

I'm reminded of the words of Christ in Revelation 2:6 where he speaks of the practice of the Nicolaitans (nico = "conquer" + lait = "Laity"). Christ "HATES" top-down rule over laity.

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34Yahshua, you make a dubious statement when you say, "one may see the authority of God through the letters of Paul."  That's actually true.  Then again, one can see the absolute authority of God through the flight of a bumblebee.  Paul does not possess, neither in his person nor in his letters, the card-blanche authority of God.  As to his letters, there is no doubt that some of his writing is inspired by the Holy Spirit.  When it is ALL tested against the Holy Spirit, A LOT of Paul's writing rings true — and some of it does not.

Here, let me explain what I meant...

In 1 Samuel 8, Israel wanted a fleshly king over them, even though God made it clear that HE was their king. Samuel relayed God's message to Israel but they insisted to be like other nations. So God complied and gave them King Saul, warning Israel that they'd regret it. God, through Samuel, anointed King Saul to rule over them. Israel celebrated Saul and lived under his rule for a while until Saul became corrupt (disobedient to the commands of God, which God knew he would eventually do...hence the warning). Through Saul, Israel was corrupted by outsiders who brought their pagan practices. Israel reaped the consequences for rejecting God and demanding a fleshly leader.

Next God, through Samuel, anoints David (a man after his own heart) as the next king. David ABSOLUTELY would NOT kill King Saul or show anything but respect for King Saul, for no other reason but for the fact that Saul had the God-given authority to rule...even as bad as he was. Even when Saul was eventually killed, one account says that David killed the man who killed Saul as a punishment for striking down a King ordained by God. Again, David is a man after God's own heart.

Note: God anointed a corruptible man (in Saul) with authority to lead his people (for a time) as a punishment/consequence for their rejection of him...and anyone who went against this appointment was going against the authority of God himself (as evident through the testimony of David).


God anointed a corruptible man (in Saul of Tarshish) with authority [garments laid down at his feet] to lead his people for a time. Through Paul, God's people learned new truths about the gospel...but also through Paul, God's people became introduced to "the structure" of Roman institutions ("Top-down" ruling system), which eventually gave way to the easy integration of Rome's pagan religious doctrines & practices. But even with this eventual corruption of the Church, it still doesn't change the fact that Paul was given authority by God to do everything he did. This God-given authority that Paul had over the church (for better or worse) is evident through his letters (as compared to how the church is currently molded). The fact that 1 Samuel 8 is prophetically fulfilled in Paul's ministry & influence in the church is a testament to God's hand in it. This is what I meant with my statement.

You can take Nebuchadnezzar as another example: God, through Daniel had to remind King Neb that he was chosen as an instrument of God to punish Israel; that his kingship was not from him but was ordained by God.

If someone is in authority as a leader, God ordained it. Paul was in leadership authority.

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34Your first posting of scripture is Matthew 18:15-17.  And in doing so you assert that:  "Christ said the same thing that Paul said, so no contradiction here" in regard to Paul turning brothers "over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh."

[...]

First of all, Jesus is talking about the sensible steps you should take if your brother should sin against YOU.  That within itself eliminates any comparison against the two situations involving Paul.

...But TTO, with love, you're tending a Pharisees response here; you're making an exception for Christ's words concerning "the target" (or specific situation) of a sin rather than applying Christ's words to the sin itself. You are "lawyering" by focusing more on the letter than on the spirit of what Christ's means. To drive home my point I ask you:

Is God only concerned with sins specifically against HIM ...or is he concerned with sin? Likewise, can we assume his Son is equally concerned with sin itself rather than dealing with sin in "specific situations"?

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34As good practicing Christians, [sarcasm] don't you know that you're supposed to involve SATAN as a part of the salvation process?  What's wrong with you people?  Since it's PAUL doing it, why aren't you trying to figure out SOME WAY to make it WORK within your belief system?  Well, you actually ARE, BY TRYING TO DEFEND IT.  EVEN AGAINST WHAT JESUS SAYS.

Well speaking governmentally, TTO, Satan has just as much "right" within his own limited authority as Christ has within his supreme authority over all. This is how God HIMSELF governs through the salvation process: using Christ & Satan.

Have you ever asked yourself why didn't Christ simply destroy the Legion of demons in the possessed man? Why did Christ merely allow Legion to enter into the pigs instead? Surely Christ had the power to destroy the demons...but he didn't.

Note the question Legion asked Christ: "have you come to torment us BEFORE THE TIME?" Legion was pointing out that they have a "right" to possess people for a specific length of time ordained by God, however Legion's "authority" over whom they'd possess was superseded by Christ's supreme authority over everything.

Our Father governs by granting authority to both the powers of light AND the powers of darkness, making the power of light stronger than dark. Why do you think there were two prominent, yet opposing, trees placed in the garden from which to choose?


Christ is the arm of love, mercy and life...while Satan is the arm of hate, judgment, and death. Satan has the "right" to rule this flesh, and all of the fleshy kingdoms of this world were placed under his rule...while Christ has the authority to rule over all, so anyone "in Christ" is over and above all the authority of Satan; "the woman clothed with the sun [Christ] with the moon [Satan] under her feet (Rev 12:1).


- I'll give an even better example as to how God governs and brings people to salvation. Please read the story of Esther. It's a pretty quick read. In it, pay attention to the authority given to specific characters, remembering that "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20).


Note the king decreed that Haman – who HATED the Jews – have authority to judge the Jew in death. Hadassah asked the king to overturn this decree but the king said "my word can not be undone" because the king's authority is SUPREME. The king's word can not be voided. However, even though judgment was decreed, a way of salvation was also established by that same king. The king told his bride she had the authority to establish a "new" decree under his seal. Her new decree didn't erase Haman's decree, but hers superseded it...so every Jew had a choice as to which decree would apply to them: Listen to Ester and live, or do not listen to Ester and die at the hand of Haman.

Christ established a "new" testament that God's people can live by, but that didn't negate the "old" testament which is the authority Satan operates under since the law was broken (sin & judgment/death/suffering). God's people can either abide in Christ (under his umbrella) by doing what he said to do, or abide in Satan (continuing to be subject to sin & death).

- But for another example to show God's process of Salvation using Satan; recall the children of Israel in Egypt (a living parable). It was God who hardened Pharaoh's heart which eventually caused the army of Egypt to chase down Israel and try to destroy them, but it was also God that parted the sea. If Israel wasn't being chased it wouldn't have been baptized in the Red Sea.

This is God's process of salvation: Bring one to his cross with evil/death, then offer to set him free with salvation/life.


- Or we can read the book of Job. Notice how Satan had to ask permission to test Job. In fact, notice that it was God who pointed out his servant Job to Satan. It was also God who gave Satan authority over Job's flesh, property, and family...all so that God could see if Job would rebuke him.

Yes...God himself has used Satan in the salvation process.

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34Turning anyone — much less a brother — over to Satan, for the destruction of their flesh, is pure La-la Land. 

God did this to mankind, as the examples above show. The flesh profits nothing, TTO. Satan has rightful authority over this flesh. For another example Reread Revelation 11, knowing that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; if John was given a reed to "measure" (i.e. a "rule"; set boundaries in) the temple and holy place, but the "outer court" was commanded to be given to the gentiles [the kingdoms rightfully under Satan's authority] to walk on...what does the "outer court" represent prophetically?

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34I'll ask you, Yahshua, the same question I asked ChristNU, since you are trying to defend this practice:  do you participate, yourself, in [delivering men to Satan]?

Sure, we ALL practice it whether knowingly or unknowingly, and especially against ourselves. For example, when we nurture fear in a specific situation instead of nurturing faith and peace (when concerning medical, financial, emotional, situations, etc), we exit Christ's authority and deliver ourselves under Satan's authority. When we speak ill of another person and wish (or expect) harm or misfortune to fall on them we are exercising the authority of destruction; Satan's authority. When we act prideful and full of ourselves, or in any way other than how Christ acted [not bearing the fruits of the spirit] we exit Christ and deliver ourselves to other darker spirits under Satan.

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34You will find that not one of these [Revelation] verses you cite are attributed to Jesus or to God the Father. For, indeed, much greater theologians than you have remarkably and quite correctly separated the verses, [...]

No, I'm not a great theologian...but I have faith that the scriptures were written, not for theologians only (as that would imply "nicolaitanism", which Christ also hates), but for simple folk like me. At any rate, in the very first verse of Revelation it explains that the ENTIRE revelation [all of the messages & visions contained] is from God...through Christ...through to his servants.

Revelation 1:1

QuoteThe Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God [The Father] gave unto him [The Son], to shew unto his servants [John and the rest of us] things which must shortly come to pass; and he [God] sent and signified it by his angel [messenger] unto his servant John:

But as to your comment about "greater theologians"; how can you judge people who would hold Paul with such high regard when just now (and even further in your other posts) you show that you're two-fold guilty of judging me (as lesser), AND these theologians (as greater)? Remember; judge not.

Quote from: The Third One on Wed Jun 27, 2012 - 04:29:34Yahshua — and I truly say this with the utmost love for you — how can you be so self-damning ignorant to argue:  "Neither did Christ say ALL will be in the kingdom"?  By arguing AGAINST the fact that Jesus DOES say, "ALL," who do you think you are excluding from "the Kingdom"?

I can only quote scripture, TTO. I don't know how I've damned myself. It is not I who judge but the words I've quoted that judge. I don't hate or condemn people anywhere, but it's people that condemn themselves by not believing what is written. I will share the following passage and will abstain from much of any commentary for them just so you will know it's not me who's said these things.

Matthew 7:13

QuoteEnter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [anomia = Lawlessness].
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Makes no difference how you or I look at Paul. Jesus called him a "chosen vessel." (Acts 9:15)
Jesus explains why in this same verse.

Either this "chosen vessel" was instructed by inspiration to report that "He (God), has made him (Jesus)
to be sin for US, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Cor. 5:21)
or he is as The Third One says, a false prophet and lacked knowledge of the Lord's will.

If so, then we must consider that the church is NOT "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone" (Eph. 2:20). Nor, when we read, we may understand Paul's
knowledge in the mystery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it was
revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." (Eph. 2:5).
If so, just how did Paul's letter's become canonized?

It would seem since Jesus called Saul/Paul a "chosen vessel," he, as an apostle (Gal. 1:1) would be privy to this
"mystery."  Evidently, Paul spoke with a "forked tongue" when he said to the church at Corinth:
"For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed
took bread: etc. (1 Cor. 11:23ff).

Was Luke a false prophet in leading us to believe that Saul was not a "chosen vessel"?
If so, we must look deeper into The Third One's report.
He too may be "chosen" to led us into the "mystery,"
Keep in mind that Joseph Smith "translated the gold plates as delivered by the angel Moroni by the gift and power of God." In doing so, the world now has The Book of Mormon.
The illiterate Mohammad received the Qur'an from the dictation of the angel Gabriel and founded the fastest growing
religion on the face of the earth. Are we not to believe that The Third One is not for real?

Yahshua 2

Hi Yahshua,

You bring out the best in me!  Here's another long one.  Don't blame ME — you inspired it!   

It is only "Good

Yahshua 2.2

Hi-Yah,

It gets even worse at Philippians 3:10:  here, the original Greek has Paul saying, "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in His death.

Yahshua 2.3

Hi-Yah again,
       
As to your presumption that I rank the same theologians who would put Paul on a pedestal in high regard, did you not notice that I did use the word "Remarkably