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Hello and thank you for reading my post. I'll try to keep it short!

When I was younger, sometime in my early teens, I had read about someone who saved her first kiss for her engagement and I decided that the idea seemed very romantic and became attached to it. The decision had nothing to do with my religious beliefs, but eventually it became a part of who I was. In following years, I was always very careful about getting involved with any boys because I didn't really know how to deal with wanting to kiss but trying to save that at the same time. The summer after I graduated high school, I started to "date" a guy that I considered to be just a friend. I didn't know it at the time, but both of us were in this pseudo-relationship for the same (and wrong) reasons. We were both in love with the idea of being in a relationship. I got caught up in the new experiences and one night he asked if he could kiss me. I knew that if I said yes, it would go against everything I had planned for myself as well as breaking with who I am. But I also really wanted to experience a kiss, and as much as I hate to admit it, I was 18 and wanted to be able to say that I had my first kiss. So in the end, we did kiss. Immediately, I knew that I had done wrong because I realized that I was not just living a lie, but that I was using someone else. Not to mention that I was very disappointed in myself for giving in to temptation. I ended up breaking it off with that guy the same night.

Sometime after that, I re-examined the idea of kissing and I came to see it in a new light. I decided to save my next kiss not for engagement, but for marriage. This time, my decision is more tied to religious considerations. I made this decision not only for the reason of not having that extra little temptation to fall into sin, but also because I think that it is a way to show that special someone that you're willing to save everything and deny yourself something that you want - all because of that person. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against other people kissing before marriage or engagement!

My dilemma is that since I made that decision, though I still feel strongly about it,  it's 4 years later and I've met someone that I care about. We aren't currently in a relationship because we're in different parts of the country, but we will be living in the same city soon so I do anticipate a relationship to grow between us. The last time we were in the same city, he began to kiss me on the cheek to say hello and goodbye. I took that as something fairly innocent, so I didn't bother to go into my long explanation of not kissing (on the lips), but I'm going to have to tell him if we do begin a relationship. I have no doubt that he'll respect my decision and help me to hold to it (the temptation to kiss him is already strong enough while we're living in different parts of the country!). The problem is that while I do feel strongly about not kissing before marriage, I'm trying to re-examine my feelings on it and try to figure out if I feel strongly because of the reasons I stated earlier or because I'm still subconsciously trying to punish myself/make up for my earlier mistake.

In re-thinking all of this, I started to wonder what other people think about the topic, so I guess my question to all of you is what your opinions are regarding kissing before marriage? The question isn't directly related to my own story, but feel free to comment on that if you'd like.

God bless!

Kissing, holding hands, heck, even having a girl sit on her boyfriend's lap is okay in my eyes. 

I respect your decision to save kissing until marriage.  I'm typically not the romantic type, but I do find that fairly romantic and thoughtful.  Kudos to you.

Anyhow, I believe all of the above I mentioned (kissing and holding hands at least) are all apart of a great relationship.  Notice how I said relationship; this could mean before AND during marriage.  In my eyes, physical romance plays an equally important part in a relationship as does spiritual and mental. 

Take our relationship with God for example.  Perfect...well, at least His side is perfect.  I, and many others, still have our flaws and mishaps.  I struggle to spend some adequate time with God everyday, I'll admit that.  But our relationship with Him requires 3 aspects - physical, mental, and spiritual.  Physical meaning living for Him, treating our bodies as temples for Him, etc.  Mental meaning having a Christ-like mind, thinking about having God first (and actually putting Him first!), etc.  And lastly, Spiritually, meaning being one in the spirit with Him; being reborn through Christ. 

I believe the same goes for romantic relationships.  In my eyes, kissing even on the first date wouldn't be a bad thing.  Sex before marriage, or any sexual acts in that matter?  Not a chance.  That's where it crosses the line.  Just my two cents.

Hi and welcome

All I can say is that if this is important to you, then thats good. If you begin a relationship with anyone, then of course you will need to simply tell them that you dont want to kiss anyone till you marry. No long explanation needed as far as I can see, then they can decide if they are ok with that ,and if they want to stay, and you will both know from the start where you are. If he is away then why not write to him either by letter or by email and tell him.
Personally a kiss or holding hands is fine by me, but we are all different. I was watching a programme the other night about orthodox Jews,and they actually dont touch at all till marriage. I hadnt known that.

As I said we are all different and we all need to feel comfortable with whatever we decide.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Jul 02, 2012 - 03:01:32
I was watching a programme the other night about orthodox Jews,and they actually dont touch at all till marriage. I hadnt known that.

Depends on what kind of orthdox you are talking about.

Chassidic (sometimes called "ultra orthodox") sects vary from group to group. And then there are the Charaidi, the Yeshivites, regular western orthodox and Modern Orthodox. They all have various customs.  Some even allow limited premarital sex during the engagement.

Personally I see nothing scripturally wrong with a kiss before marriage. But I will not advise you to go against your conscience.

I would however, examine the reasons that led you to that decision. If it is just a romantic notion, there is really little to support that.  If you feel God told you to not kiss, then by all means do not kiss.

If you find the act of kissing (or even thinking about kissing) gets you too excited and makes you want to push for more, then stick to your decision not to kiss.

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Jul 02, 2012 - 10:37:12

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Jul 02, 2012 - 03:01:32
I was watching a programme the other night about orthodox Jews,and they actually don't touch at all till marriage. I hadn't known that.

Depends on what kind of Orthodox you are talking about.

Chassidic (sometimes called "ultra orthodox") sects vary from group to group. And then there are the Charaidi, the Yeshivites, regular western orthodox and Modern Orthodox. They all have various customs.  Some even allow limited premarital sex during the engagement.

Dave I don't know which it was, but it was about the Jewish community in Manchester (UK). Apparently it is the largest Orthodox Jewish community in Europe. The guy getting married was a rabbi and he was sooo funny(in a nice way). He was marrying a lovely Jewish girl from the USA who he met on line.

For me, there is nothing wrong with kissing and other romantic gestures before marriage. But I think things like this should be discussed between the couple. Every individual has their limit, and those boundaries should be respected accordingly. But I think a loving kiss is cool, but on other things, I wouldn't want to go there until marriage. For me, a make out session in a car or something like that is too much for me. But to show my mate that I love him with a sweet kiss, hug, or holding hands will suffice.

I don't think that there are anything wrong about kissing before marriage in general, but if you feel strongly about it, then don't do it.

you said
"I'm trying to re-examine my feelings on it and try to figure out if I feel strongly because of the reasons I stated earlier or because I'm still subconsciously trying to punish myself/make up for my earlier mistake"

I am a little concerned that you feel that you may be punishing yourself for one kiss some time ago. It may well be that you didnt keep to your own high standards, rather than that its what is right. Are you very strict with yourself? Do you set yourself very high standards and then get angry at yourself for not keeping them?Why do you feel that you may need to punish yourself for what is really not very drastic a mistake?
 

Let me tell you an old parable from the Navaho Indian tribe.

There was a young brave that wanted an eagle feather. He was not really considered a full fledged warrior until he had his eagle feather for his headband.

so he took his bow and arrows and went in search of an eagle. He soon seen one flying high in the mid day sun. so he got out his bow and shot at the eagle. But he fell short...the eagle was flying so high.

After he fell short he knew everyone was laughing at him...why even the sun itself was laughing at him. he felt like he was never going to be a full fledged warrior. And the brave got angry at himself and all those laughing. The only one he seen laughing though was the sun...so he took out his bow and tried to shoot the sun.

Again he fell short....

But he accidentally shot an eagle while shooting at the sun.

So the new warrior went home.


so with your Kissing goal you might have been aiming for the sun but you obviously will hit the eagle.

I do set high standards for myself, mostly because I want to be the best Christian that I can be, most of all for God, second for me, and lastly to be an example to those around me. My statement earlier was not to imply that I thought that I was indeed punishing myself for what I have come to appreciate is not a big mistake in the overall scheme of things. Rather, I just wanted to make sure that's not what I was doing. And I have come to conclusion that punishing myself subconsciously was not the case. I do feel strongly about this issue because I feel it was what God desires of me, not what I desire of me - believe me, I'd really like kissing! But I'll refrain because it's God's standard for me, not my own.

Thank you so much!!! God bless!

Quote from: 1cor1313 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:41:35
I do set high standards for myself, mostly because I want to be the best Christian that I can be, most of all for God, second for me, and lastly to be an example to those around me. My statement earlier was not to imply that I thought that I was indeed punishing myself for what I have come to appreciate is not a big mistake in the overall scheme of things. Rather, I just wanted to make sure that's not what I was doing. And I have come to conclusion that punishing myself subconsciously was not the case. I do feel strongly about this issue because I feel it was what God desires of me, not what I desire of me - believe me, I'd really like kissing! But I'll refrain because it's God's standard for me, not my own.

Thank you so much!!! God bless!

You say that you want to be the best Christian that you can be, so you set yourself very high standards. So do you think they are standards that you set for yourself, or are they Gods standards as set out in the Bible? I used to be very hard on myself and very strict, always trying to be a 'good' Christian. However things have changed, and I now know that God loves me and that being his child isnt all about keeping high standards but about being adored and loved unconditionally. IN my experience many set themselves standards that God has never expected or asked.
What do you think?
If you know that God has specifically told you not to kiss, then thats one thing, but if its just that you think he wouldnt want you to kiss then maybe you need to ask Him to specifially tell you?.

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jul 04, 2012 - 03:12:00
You say that you want to be the best Christian that you can be, so you set yourself very high standards. So do you think they are standards that you set for yourself, or are they Gods standards as set out in the Bible? I used to be very hard on myself and very strict, always trying to be a 'good' Christian.

I find it interesting that MANY times in the bible we are told to obey God and to "turn neither to the right nor to the left."

I take that as not being too lax in your obedience (turn to the left) nor go beyond the command by being more strict (turning to the right).  In fact is that not one of the criticisms Jesus leveled at the Pharasees - that they added their own commands to the biblical commands?

God promises to give grace to obey Him.  I find no scriptural promise for HIM to give grace for going BEYOND the command by being more strict.

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 06:13:19

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jul 04, 2012 - 03:12:00
You say that you want to be the best Christian that you can be, so you set yourself very high standards. So do you think they are standards that you set for yourself, or are they Gods standards as set out in the Bible? I used to be very hard on myself and very strict, always trying to be a 'good' Christian.

I find it interesting that MANY times in the bible we are told to obey God and to "turn neither to the right nor to the left."

I take that as not being too lax in your obedience (turn to the left) nor go beyond the command by being more strict (turning to the right).  In fact is that not one of the criticisms Jesus leveled at the Pharasees - that they added their own commands to the biblical commands?

God promises to give grace to obey Him.  I find no scriptural promise for HIM to give grace for going BEYOND the command by being more strict.

Yes and that is the case with many churches/believers today as well isn't it. Many of the rules that are taught are not in the Bible. Examples that I can think of are those who teach that we must never have alcohol, gamble, dance, watch films, tele, etc etc. Now of course any of these things can be good or bad, and we need to watch what we do ourselves, but none of them are banned by God as far as I can see just as with kissing. I suppose that marriages at the NT time were usually arranged anyway, so the couple probably didn't have that courtship stage, so it wasn't an issue in the same way as it is today.
I do feel sad though, when people burden themselves with things that God never even asks of us, and add so many rules and regulations. Jesus came to set us free, and not to weigh us down even more.

People could take a Nazarite Vow. This vow as well as a fasting vow was instituted by God for good purposes.

This young lady has done something similar.

In a world where sexual morality is on the downhill slide it is refreshing.

She isn't the only person I heard of doing this. A friend of mine's sister did this. Worked out for her.

She got a Godly husband and several children out of the deal. She isn't expecting anyone else to live up to her standards she set for herself.

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 07:15:13
I do feel sad though, when people burden themselves with things that God never even asks of us, and add so many rules and regulations. Jesus came to set us free, and not to weigh us down even more.

That is a "Sinned if you do, Sinned if you don't" connundrum the devil loves to get us in.

If he can convince us that activity A is sinful when it is not shown as such in scripture, then he can tempt s and tempt us (and since it is in essence NOT sin God does not extend grace to withstand the temptation) we "fall" into sin buy doing it. But the sin is not activty A itself, it is the lack of doing it in faith (what ever not from faith is sin).  In fact the devil sometimes even does that with commands in the bible.  If activity B is commanded (but one of those things that does not get discussed ofted) and the devil can convince you it is a sin, then if you do NOT do B you sin by disobeying scripture.  If you DO do B then you sin by not doing it in faith.

This is the reason I argue so strongly AGAINST the common notion that masturbating is always a sin.  It is never called such in scripture (and there were plenty of places where it could have been) and to cover it by other prohibitions means stretching their definitions.

BTW - my arguments on that do not reflect the opinions of the Messianic movement in general.

You don't need to take any Nazarite vows---which do not apply to this---but rather simply making a vow before the Lord to remain pure and chaste and free from certain expressions of romantic affection is something that a couple does as they feel led of the Lord. I know of a couple who did this, and were nothing but honourable to the vow until marriage and the Lord has blessed them. They blessed others as well. It was a true witness to us all of their strong faith and their desire to honour one another.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 07:35:58
You don't need to take any Nazarite vows---which do not apply to this---but rather simply making a vow before the Lord to remain pure and chaste and free from certain expressions of romantic affection is something that a couple does as they feel led of the Lord. I know of a couple who did this, and were nothing but honourable to the vow until marriage and the Lord has blessed them. They blessed others as well. It was a true witness to us all of their strong faith and their desire to honour one another.

LS I find this quite interesting. I wonder why God would ask this of some couples and not others? Surely if kissing or whatever isnt what God wants before marriage, He would convict all Christian couples of this? What do you think? Maybe it partly depends on our upbringing and what our parents taught us? Or on how we see ourselves?
In the Bible we are clearly told that sex is wrong before marriage, and so its very wise to stay clear of anything that may tempt us to do that, but I think it may be unusual for a kiss or holding hands to bring too much temptation(unless it is a very long passionate kiss maybe?)