Christian Forums

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:23:19

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:16:13

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 12:43:23

Quote from: Carey on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 12:27:00

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:41:51

Quote from: Carey on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:36:07

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:16:54
Oh yes bitterweet, and the reason that men look at naked women is so that they can be pure in mind and heart.

Bitter does have a point about judging what goes on in the minds of men.  Although perhaps we can come up with a reasonable explanation. 

Off topic, but
You remind me of this, a world where nakedness can indeed not be hindering to purity in mind and heart.  What a wonderful image Lewis paints, truly a gifted author.

Quote from: C.S. LewisI cannot now remember whether she was naked or clothed. If she were naked, then it must have been the almost visible penumbra of her courtesy and joy which produces in my memory the illusion of a great and shining train that followed her across the happy grass. If she were clothed, then the illusion of nakedness is doubtless due to the clarity with which her inmost spirit shone through the clothes. For clothes in that country are not a disguise: the spiritual body lives along each thread and turns them into living organs. A robe or a crown is there as much one of the wearer's features as a lip or an eye.

From "The Great Divorce"

Cheers,
Carey.

I seriously doubt that most men will see a picture of a naked lady and only look at her face. Guys are only human and will be affected, even in a small way, by seeing porn.

A married guy should only ever see their wives naked.

Much of this is a cultural thing though, in places I am sure nakedness is a very mundane, un-arousing occurrence, in others the sight of an ankle may leave one hot and bothered.

Exactly, i'm sure a Muslim man may have more trouble controlling his thoughts compared to a bouncer at a strip club.

The point is Chosenone, a Godly man can look at a picture of a naked woman and not be aroused. It's the one's that can't look at them without lewd thoughts that we should pray for.

A godly man will not look at porn whether he is aroused or not. Bittersweet, Its NORMAL for men to be aroused by women, that's the way God made them! I think that it would be weird for a man to be able to watch a women strip, for example, and NOT get aroused.
That's why God warns us not to look at such things, but only at things that are good and pure. To avoid temptation. There is no way that I would look at a naked man, or go to watch men strip, or read a racy novel. That would be indcredibly disrespectful to my husband, as well as harmful to my spirit, as well as disobedient to God.

Chosenone, not every man has lust in their eyes. I'm sorry you are unable to understand or see this in men.

I see it because I have a godly man who wont look at porn. He wont look at it because he knows it is wrong, disrespectful to me and not being godly. He always says to me that other women are not  his to look at,  but that I am. He is so right. Other women are someone elses wife or future wife and not for other men to stare at. I love that he thinks and says that.
There is such a thing as controlling the eyes. Job made a covenant with his eyes. Men are supposed to get aroused, with their wives. Its a bit hard for a man to have sex if he isnt aroused if you get what I am saying.

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:29:58
It seems to me that if lust were not involved...porn would be a nonissue completely! Like, they wouldn't even be drawn to it if lust was not present in their heart.

Very true.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:23:19
Chosenone, not every man has lust in their eyes. I'm sorry you are unable to understand or see this in men.

I will assume by "lust" you mean arousal.  Correct me if that is wrong.

But a man who does not get aroused by seeing nude women will not get aroused with his wife either.

I think we should clarify that a man who is actively looking at pictures of naked women, especially pornography, has an issue, and some prayer is in order.  However, this thread has turned a corner into another subject matter....

The mere appearance of nudity. Can nudity be benign? contrary to some of the opinions here from people I truly respect, I believe it can.

Bitter mentions a bouncer in a strip bar, I believe such a person can be desensitized to such an extent to hold a conversation with a naked performer without a trace of lewd thought.  The same goes for doctors, particularly ObGyn's, and a myriad of other occupations. 

I believe there are truly disciplined Christian men that could completely ignore a woman's nakedness.  I do not profess to be of this category, but I will say Christianity and being a father has brought me considerably towards such an end.  I would hope that a man need not avert his eyes, nor have unbecoming thoughts, should a naked girl require assistance in a dire situation.

Porn is bad, the naked body is not porn it is as God first intended us before our fall.


Edit: removed the "indeed's" silly redundant word indeed.

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:42:04

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:29:58
It seems to me that if lust were not involved...porn would be a nonissue completely! Like, they wouldn't even be drawn to it if lust was not present in their heart.

Very true.

Well exactly.

nudity isn't wrong, in and of itself...but I would be devastated to know that my husband was actively trying to look at OTHER women who had no clothes on.

If he was a doctor, that is different; just as a naked woman in distress due to a dire situation is different. I would think those circumstances would keep it from being a sexual titillation...but that is just a guess.

Well then, there's always this

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?  Oh yes, then they went one better and hid from God.  *eyeroll*

Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:06:38
Well then, there's always this

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?  Oh yes, then they went one better and hid from God.  *eyeroll*

Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!

Good point and I agree 100%. It would be a no no for me as well.

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:54:26

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:42:04

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:29:58
It seems to me that if lust were not involved...porn would be a nonissue completely! Like, they wouldn't even be drawn to it if lust was not present in their heart.

Very true.

Well exactly.

I agree with this too, they won't be seeking it but there are some instances where it can't be avoided, like the newspaper example I made that my husband see's or other facebook pages with people that do post the pictures like the person that fassopony thought she was interested in did. Movies, commercialism. My husband was raised with naked women in commercials on TV, i'm sure it had an unavoidable effect on him when he was a young boy but now it's nothing to take a second glance at. Plus his parents were probably sitting next to him when this was on tv, he had to learn to control it.

I was actually shocked when I saw this, when we got married my husband rented a little furnished apartment for us. After dinner all his friends came over for a couple drinks and the TV was on with a lingerie show, it was far from appropriate! lol but nobody stared at the tv, we just had good conversation and I was the only girl in the room. Nobody thought to change the channel, it wasn't an issue. In fact I was probably the only 1 that noticed it and thought it was odd!

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:06:38
Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!

God I love your humor! 

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:06:38
Well then, there's always this

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?  Oh yes, then they went one better and hid from God.  *eyeroll*

Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!

I am with you fasso, my comments have no relevance to the OP.  Just say no to hos!

With regards to A&E, it is interesting that God gave them clothing also.  Given they were alone does this mean we must hide or nudity from our spouses?  Hiding such from God seems kind of silly.


   

Carey, have you noticed you like to push the limits of acceptability?  Well, you asked if nude art was bad?  If God gave clothes did it mean to never take them off?  Please don't be offended but that was exactly how the ole snake got Eve to question God's directive.  "Did He really mean you would surely die??"  "Did He really mean porn and all nudity is bad??"  "Did He really mean not to look only if you get aroused??"  Knock it off.

Srsly.

You and I both know that you are pushing and you and I both know what God thinks.  However, if you do indeed have an issue determining the will of God may I suggest Bible study and praying for discernment?

Bitter, I think I am around too many youngsters, that's how I roll LOL!!

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:33:02
Carey, have you noticed you like to push the limits of acceptability?  Well, you asked if nude art was bad?  If God gave clothes did it mean to never take them off?  Please don't be offended but that was exactly how the ole snake got Eve to question God's directive.  "Did He really mean you would surely die??"  "Did He really mean porn and all nudity is bad??"  "Did He really mean not to look only if you get aroused??"  Knock it off.

Srsly.

You and I both know that you are pushing and you and I both know what God thinks.  However, if you do indeed have an issue determining the will of God may I suggest Bible study and praying for discernment?

Bitter, I think I am around too many youngsters, that's how I roll LOL!!

Fasso,

You have left me somewhat bewildered, and given the respect I have for your opinion, saddened.

I will review what I have posted here, and get back to you, my apologies, sometimes humor does get the better of me.

Sincerely,
Carey. 

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:33:02

Bitter, I think I am around too many youngsters, that's how I roll LOL!!

They do keep us young and fun!

Ok and the lingerie show was on because of the background music.

I have one more story about my husband being raised with so much nudity. He told me they had a porn channel but it was on after 10pm. One night when he was a boy he snuck in the living room to watch it. Once he heard the woman yelling, he thought she was being hurt so he stopped watching! lol! Ever since then he's had an aversion to porn because he thought the woman was being hurt!

Carey, it's just something I noticed.  Also, I myself tend to see what I "can" do so maybe i am extra sensitive to it?  I wouldn't worry about it, unless you are purposely trying to push boundaries which it doesn't sound like you are.

Oooh, Bittersweet, oh my.  Porn and I have a long history in that I dislike it.  Even before I was saved.  years and years ago I dated a guy that suggested I watch porn as a "training guide for sex".  Um, really.  He was training solo after that.  Twerp.  He had these huge cable bills too from ordering porn all the time too.  I would spend an extra $300 on shoes and ribeye steaks, not watching some girls hoohoo.  Just sayin'.

Quote from: fassopony on Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:49:57
Carey, it's just something I noticed.  Also, I myself tend to see what I "can" do so maybe i am extra sensitive to it?  I wouldn't worry about it, unless you are purposely trying to push boundaries which it doesn't sound like you are.

Oooh, Bittersweet, oh my.  Porn and I have a long history in that I dislike it.  Even before I was saved.  years and years ago I dated a guy that suggested I watch porn as a "training guide for sex".  Um, really.  He was training solo after that.  Twerp.  He had these huge cable bills too from ordering porn all the time too.  I would spend an extra $300 on shoes and ribeye steaks, not watching some girls hoohoo.  Just sayin'.

Now I definitely understand why you would want to make sure the guy was free from this sort of stuff! I don't blame you.

In all honesty, I think when people are sheltered from it, they are more excited from the taboo of it. I dunno, I could be wrong but as Carey mentioned earlier culture has a lot to do with how a man is going to see it.

Sorry Fasso, I will be more careful, and more sensitive to your outlook  if I correspond with you in the future.

Your comments hurt, and I have waffled on how to address them, you've probably noticed that this post has changed a few times.

But it is a beautiful morning and God is great, in Him I have incomparable solace.

God bless.
Carey