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I am not saying that temptation is sin.  But a same-sex attraction is not just a temptation.  it is a state of existence, just like my hetro sexual orientation is a state of existence.

Me being tempted by a cute woman somewhere is just that - temptation.  The orientation is correct and godly but the specific person (not my wife) would be erroneous.

Similarly the guy who is attracted to another guy - being tempted to be with some specific guy is just that: temptation and not sinful unless acted on.  But the orientation itself is not godly or right.  The orientation is sinful in and of itself.

Quote from: Gracey on Sat Dec 22, 2012 - 12:08:32

Quote from: Red Baker on Sat Dec 22, 2012 - 10:55:23
Greetings Gracey,

I will take time this afternoon to answer some of your concerns.  RB

Thank you Red.   I apologise if my response sounded angry - I am very passionate about this subject.   I couldn't even begin to describe to you, the heartache and pain, my (now) ex's SSA, has caused to me and my family.

God HAS been faithful though, giving peace in the times which were incredibly low.  Even now, He is just there.
That is all I need.   

Greetings Gracey,

No need to apologize, I fully understand your passionate spirit.  Your point was well taken, in that, I should had slow down, and thought through my thoughts more than I did.  That being said: I still would never refer to them as Gays, for reasons already given.  God who we both believe in and serve, calls them Sodomites, and so should we, we are not more than and wise than our heavenly Father. 

Sister, there are others sins that men commit that is worst than Sodomy, base upon the word of God~See Luke 10:10-15....And in the day of Judgment, it will be more tolerable for Sodom than for certain other men, who have rejected the word of God, from those who have the true gospel of peace, yet they chose to serve sin, over God's word from his true servants. 

I have personally preached in a funeral of a man who lived the life of Sodomy~one of my brothers-in-law.  He died of AIDS.  Very sad indeed.  I first refuse to preached his funeral, because my dear mother-in law wanted me to say certain things, which my conscience would not allow me to say, so I ask her to find someone else, who would be happy to do it for a certain fee, (sure enough, a man from the First Baptist church show up to do it) yet, my mother-in law, said: "I rather you do, for they all say thing, for a little money"~ (she was an unbeliever)she said please do so and say what you will.  Rory died on Christmas day 1988, which made it very easy for me.  I said very little about Rory, other than we all love him, but did say that the world will celebrate the birth of Jesus, but he is much more than what most know him to be~he is a MIGHTY KING, sitting on a Throne, highly exalted at God's right hand according to Acts 2:33, and will come back to judge the world in righteousness at the last day.  There were several sodomites there, one which was dress as a women! It was good to have the opportunity to honor my brother-in law and mother -in law who just died three months ago.

In Closing, about ten hours before Rory died, he said to my wife alone: Sherry, I want to be saved, and she said you need to speak with Red.  I went into to Rory's room and said, Rory, Sherry said you wanted to speak with me, and he said: I want to be saved, because I know that I am going to die.  Here are the words that I said to him;

Rory, can I ask you a few questions to see how sincere you are, because I do not want you to leave this world, and me being the last person you talked with me giving you a false hope. I ask him: would you be willing to leave your friends, if God would raise you up from this great sickness and heal you?  He said I would quit practicing doing what I have done in the past~I said  that is not enough; again would you be willing to leave them alone and live your life differently, of which he said, Yes.  Then I said: Rory, there are no magical words that I can say that will cause God to regenerate you, for that is his work, not mine; but here is what I can say to you:  IF you are truly sincere, and desire mercy from heaven, then God Almighty put that in you heart and NO MAN can take that away, and you will wake up in glory when you take your last breath.  He took everything that I said with a meek and humble spirit, and said thank very much.  We all stay there and talked with him for about three more hour and he was very alert, we left and four hours or so, he died.  IF any man, ever experience a death bed salvation, like the thief on the cross, Rory very well could have.  I am not God, but man, so I will leave that in his hands, not mine. 

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Dec 24, 2012 - 14:53:07
I am not saying that temptation is sin.  But a same-sex attraction is not just a temptation.  it is a state of existence, just like my hetro sexual orientation is a state of existence.

Me being tempted by a cute woman somewhere is just that - temptation.  The orientation is correct and godly but the specific person (not my wife) would be erroneous.

Similarly the guy who is attracted to another guy - being tempted to be with some specific guy is just that: temptation and not sinful unless acted on.  But the orientation itself is not godly or right.  The orientation is sinful in and of itself.

Greetings David,

Most men, are not and have never been tempted to be with other men.  It is unnatural, and against our nature.  To be tempted with and by another women, is not unnatural or against nature, for it naturally works in our members, a beautiful women is a great temptation for most men, if he is a true man and if he is honest with himself.  To give in to that temptation is sin; and as a child of God, we must not be allowed, or, put ourselves in a place where we are tempted, whereby we might not be able to escape.

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Dec 24, 2012 - 14:53:07
I am not saying that temptation is sin.  But a same-sex attraction is not just a temptation.  it is a state of existence, just like my hetro sexual orientation is a state of existence.

Me being tempted by a cute woman somewhere is just that - temptation.  The orientation is correct and godly but the specific person (not my wife) would be erroneous.

Similarly the guy who is attracted to another guy - being tempted to be with some specific guy is just that: temptation and not sinful unless acted on.  But the orientation itself is not godly or right.  The orientation is sinful in and of itself.

I agree Dave. Its not the seeing/noticing that is wrong, but when someone gives into that 'seeing' whether it it with another man or woman.
I dont agree that it is somehow better if the temptation is for someone of the opposite sex that of the same sex. Its not a sin unless it is lust or until it is acted on.

I often wonder how men draw the line between noticing/seeing and being tempted(looking for too long?)and actual sinning (lust?). I am just never tempted by another man apart from my husband, because I have no interest in another man in any way. We cant help who we see, but when does that become lust?

I do think you guys have brought up a good point about when a temptation becomes something unnatural,because Paul talks about it in Romans.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

It reminded me of what Christ said when talking about adultery

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I think the key there is to lust after her in there heart.Thats not just temptation but dwelling on it and focusing on it in your mind.So to look at a woman and say hey shes cute is one thing,but to go home that night and imaging doing things with her i would have to say that upon further reflecting it is Sin.

The difference than just a temptation ,is you like the act of physically committing adultery you make the decision of acting out the temptation in your mind.Which is worshiping and serving the creature more than the creator and bring yourself under the bondage of that lust.

I think your right that homosexuality arises when you allow your lusts to consume your thoughts to where you place more value on them,than the will of God.

The great thing is, its never too late to turn back to Gods will over your own.Paul describes the struggle after one acknowledges the sin that has taken hold in your heart.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:<-I THINK THIS IS THE KEY PART HERE
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The verse describes sin that has over taken us to where it has control over your members,the key is to always acknowledge it as sin and pray and keep Faith that thru the sacrifice of Christ God will remove the lust from you and make you clean.

I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Flawed Wings,

The answer to your question is found in Romans 1:21-32.

Homosexuality is a self imposed curse.

Quote from: FlawedWings on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 17:32:42
I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Do you mean apart from the fact that God forbids sex between two men or two women?

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 19:32:49

Quote from: FlawedWings on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 17:32:42
I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Do you mean apart from the fact that God forbids sex between two men or two women?

I know he forbids it. but I don't understand why. because two women or two men can't reproduce? mules can't reproduce but that doesn't mean they are an abomination. this is something I've actually tried reading about. but no matter how much I try to see the Christian view of homosexuality, I.. I just can't. I don't know why.

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 09:52:54

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 19:32:49

Quote from: FlawedWings on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 17:32:42
I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Do you mean apart from the fact that God forbids sex between two men or two women?

I know he forbids it. but I don't understand why. because two women or two men can't reproduce? mules can't reproduce but that doesn't mean they are an abomination. this is something I've actually tried reading about. but no matter how much I try to see the Christian view of homosexuality, I.. I just can't. I don't know why.

Its a abomination because its a complete act of rebellion against God's created world.I believe when a person allows the lusts inside of them to be acted out in any form it prompts it leads to a depraved mind of which the satisfaction of the flesh becomes whats most important.You can not serve two masters

Quote from: robert9712000 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:44:37

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 09:52:54

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 19:32:49

Quote from: FlawedWings on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 17:32:42
I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Do you mean apart from the fact that God forbids sex between two men or two women?

I know he forbids it. but I don't understand why. because two women or two men can't reproduce? mules can't reproduce but that doesn't mean they are an abomination. this is something I've actually tried reading about. but no matter how much I try to see the Christian view of homosexuality, I.. I just can't. I don't know why.

Its a abomination because its a completed act of rebellion against God's created world.I believe when a person allows the lusts inside of them to be acted out in any form it prompts it leads to a depraved mind of which the satisfaction of the flesh becomes whats most important.You can not serve two masters

sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:53:20


sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

We aren't fighting.

We are declaring the truth of what God has said.

Advocating sinful lifestyles are not something that Grace Centered is going to allow. Read the passage I originally proscribed...the details are there.

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:03:05

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:53:20


sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

We aren't fighting.

We are declaring the truth of what God has said.

Advocating sinful lifestyles are not something that Grace Centered is going to allow. Read the passage I originally proscribed...the details are there.

sorry about what I said,.. I just don't know who to talk to about how I feel. I've prayed long and hard but I feel empty, like I haven't gotten a reply. I thought maybe someone on here could help me figure out why I feel homosexuality is ok. apparently not. I am sorry I have troubled you, I will delete my comment if you haven't already. I'm just a dumb kid, I'm sorry for bothering you

I can't delete them.... I'm sorry for the trouble...

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:10:23

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:03:05

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:53:20


sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

We aren't fighting.

We are declaring the truth of what God has said.

Advocating sinful lifestyles are not something that Grace Centered is going to allow. Read the passage I originally proscribed...the details are there.

sorry about what I said,.. I just don't know who to talk to about how I feel. I've prayed long and hard but I feel empty, like I haven't gotten a reply. I thought maybe someone on here could help me figure out why I feel homosexuality is ok. apparently not. I am sorry I have troubled you, I will delete my comment if you haven't already. I'm just a dumb kid, I'm sorry for bothering you

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:11:45
I can't delete them.... I'm sorry for the trouble...

the bruises from a friend is better for you than the kisses from an enemy.

Look, you want answers...and we have provided them for you.
It is incumbent upon you to look to the passage in Romans to read it and know what it says. It will tell you exactly why you have feelings like you do.

and aside from that passage I would recommend a good Christian mentor/counselor. (Youth Group at a local church can help a lot with this sort of thing)

There are two things out there that sound similar but ain't. One is wisdom and the other is knowledge.

Right now you have knowledge. But wisdom is the correct application of knowledge. And that is what we are giving to you. This is the internet. We get all kinds here to promote whatever their hearts think is correct. But not all is allowed on this sight. Asking questions in a respectful manner is always allowed. Teaching others is only sometimes allowed. Promoting sin is never allowed.

So.,.remember what your English teachers have taught you and ask carefully before you declare something to be true.

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:26:12

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:10:23

Quote from: JohnDB on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:03:05

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:53:20


sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

We aren't fighting.

We are declaring the truth of what God has said.

Advocating sinful lifestyles are not something that Grace Centered is going to allow. Read the passage I originally proscribed...the details are there.

sorry about what I said,.. I just don't know who to talk to about how I feel. I've prayed long and hard but I feel empty, like I haven't gotten a reply. I thought maybe someone on here could help me figure out why I feel homosexuality is ok. apparently not. I am sorry I have troubled you, I will delete my comment if you haven't already. I'm just a dumb kid, I'm sorry for bothering you

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 11:11:45
I can't delete them.... I'm sorry for the trouble...

the bruises from a friend is better for you than the kisses from an enemy.

Look, you want answers...and we have provided them for you.
It is incumbent upon you to look to the passage in Romans to read it and know what it says. It will tell you exactly why you have feelings like you do.

and aside from that passage I would recommend a good Christian mentor/counselor. (Youth Group at a local church can help a lot with this sort of thing)

There are two things out there that sound similar but ain't. One is wisdom and the other is knowledge.

Right now you have knowledge. But wisdom is the correct application of knowledge. And that is what we are giving to you. This is the internet. We get all kinds here to promote whatever their hearts think is correct. But not all is allowed on this sight. Asking questions in a respectful manner is always allowed. Teaching others is only sometimes allowed. Promoting sin is never allowed.

So.,.remember what your English teachers have taught you and ask carefully before you declare something to be true.

yes sir. I understand. I will go pray and read what you told me to. thank you sir for your patience with me.

The one thing you need to realize is we all have issues we each deal with.just always hold fast to the knowledge that God's word is truth and not only that ,but through his word is what brings peace.

May seem odd,but as a kid and still today whenever i needed a pick me up i would listen to the Moody Blues.They have a way of describing the struggles of life.The verse i especially like is where they say knowing is not controlling.Though we know the word of God we can't always control whats in our heads.Thats where hope and faith through Christ is needed to help you get through it.

After You Came
by Moody Blues

Since it began i've got one dream
And really it's my only blessing
If i can come through then so can you
And you will find there's no regretting

Things that you want from your life's font
Will never let your spirit grow
Come back to earth for what it's worth
For you've been dreaming of the ceiling not a home

I've been doing my best
What else can i do?
Is there something i've missed
That will help you through

I've reached the top of my wall
I've found another way to fall

For some short time for a while you and i were joined to eternity
Then we're split in two back to me and you
Like the rain rising from the sea
Rising from the sea

We all can see what we shall be
But knowing's really not controlling

With time perhaps i'll pass the traps
And find some peace and understanding

After you've come and while you're gone
You leave me guessing it's depressing
Never to know the way to go
To find some time along a little less pressing

So you just have to laugh
When it hurts so much
You're so far away
And so hard to touch

I've reached the top of my wall
I've found another way to fall

Since it began i've got one dream
And really it's my only blessing
If i can come through then so can you
And you will find there's no regretting

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:53:20

Quote from: robert9712000 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 10:44:37

Quote from: FlawedWings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 - 09:52:54

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 19:32:49

Quote from: FlawedWings on Tue Dec 25, 2012 - 17:32:42
I don't understand what's wrong with homosexuals

Do you mean apart from the fact that God forbids sex between two men or two women?

I know he forbids it. but I don't understand why. because two women or two men can't reproduce? mules can't reproduce but that doesn't mean they are an abomination. this is something I've actually tried reading about. but no matter how much I try to see the Christian view of homosexuality, I.. I just can't. I don't know why.

Its a abomination because its a completed act of rebellion against God's created world.I believe when a person allows the lusts inside of them to be acted out in any form it prompts it leads to a depraved mind of which the satisfaction of the flesh becomes whats most important.You can not serve two masters

sometimes I wish God had only created one sex of humans. then sexist things and homosexuality wouldn't exist. then no one would fight over it..

There would still be evil abounding and self-abuse would be a major source of evil. No matter what God does, man and Satan-infested minds will always desecrate it.

Quote from: Red Baker on Mon Dec 24, 2012 - 14:53:26
No need to apologize, I fully understand your passionate spirit.  Your point was well taken, in that, I should had slow down, and thought through my thoughts more than I did.  That being said: I still would never refer to them as Gays, for reasons already given.  God who we both believe in and serve, calls them Sodomites, and so should we, we are not more than and wise than our heavenly Father. 

I can understand you not wishing to use the term 'gay' but I don't agree with the idea of labeling someone as a 'sodomite'.  After all, we ALL sin...none of us would like to be labelled as a liar or a fornicator or whatever.   And, more importantly, unless we give oursleves over to it, fully, we are NOT our sin (if that makes sense).   For me, I may struggle with pride, but I am wanting to crush that and work toward being closer to Jesus.  That doesn't make me 'proud', but it does make me a person who struggles with pride.  That's a different thing completely.

And likewise for people who struggle with sexual issues.   In my ex's case, he struggled with SSA but desperately did not want to be that way.  His leanings in that direction were caused by long-term abuse as a child - he was still very attracted to women but had a percentage of him, which if explored, led him down a dark path.  And as with all sin, the more he explored, the bigger the grip it got on his life.  When light was shone on the darkness, he was open about it and very much wanted to deal with the root issue.  You could well have simply labelled him as a 'sodomite' but I would never do that.  He was a man who had a struggle with SSA and by God's grace, was (and still is) working his way toward healing, with the supernatural help of the Holy Spirit.

A person becomes a 'sodomite' when they willfully turn their backs on the Creator and He then gives them over to that persuasion.  In the same way, that God does to us all, when we consistently reject His ways.   We have to be careful with the terms we use.

Quote from: Gracey on Thu Jan 03, 2013 - 05:03:36

Quote from: Red Baker on Mon Dec 24, 2012 - 14:53:26
No need to apologize, I fully understand your passionate spirit.  Your point was well taken, in that, I should had slow down, and thought through my thoughts more than I did.  That being said: I still would never refer to them as Gays, for reasons already given.  God who we both believe in and serve, calls them Sodomites, and so should we, we are not more than and wise than our heavenly Father. 

I can understand you not wishing to use the term 'gay' but I don't agree with the idea of labeling someone as a 'sodomite'.  After all, we ALL sin...none of us would like to be labelled as a liar or a fornicator or whatever.   And, more importantly, unless we give oursleves over to it, fully, we are NOT our sin (if that makes sense).   For me, I may struggle with pride, but I am wanting to crush that and work toward being closer to Jesus.  That doesn't make me 'proud', but it does make me a person who struggles with pride.  That's a different thing completely.

And likewise for people who struggle with sexual issues.   In my ex's case, he struggled with SSA but desperately did not want to be that way.  His leanings in that direction were caused by long-term abuse as a child - he was still very attracted to women but had a percentage of him, which if explored, led him down a dark path.  And as with all sin, the more he explored, the bigger the grip it got on his life.  When light was shone on the darkness, he was open about it and very much wanted to deal with the root issue.  You could well have simply labelled him as a 'sodomite' but I would never do that.  He was a man who had a struggle with SSA and by God's grace, was (and still is) working his way toward healing, with the supernatural help of the Holy Spirit.

A person becomes a 'sodomite' when they willfully turn their backs on the Creator and He then gives them over to that persuasion.  In the same way, that God does to us all, when we consistently reject His ways.   We have to be careful with the terms we use.

Greetings Gracey,

I fully understand the dilemma, you are in, and that allows you to (or tempts) to bring your feelings into an argument such as this one, and allow those feelings to override thus saith the Lord.  Dear believer, we are not wiser than God, and definitely are not more compassionate than he is;  so if he has chosen to use the word Sodomite toward any that has engaged in sex with one of the same sex, than we should follow him.  Search the scriptures and you will see how our loving and merciful Father has chosen to use the word. Also, these people are a cancer to our society, that will quickly bring down all righteousness and godly deeds and thoughts toward God.  When ever a godly king was on the throne in Israel, one of the first things that he did, was to remove the Sodomites out of the land, and the reason why~their lifestyle is contrary to godliness and righteousness, which alone exalts a nation, community, and churches. 

JohnDB, made an excellent point: sodomy is self imposed.  Romans 1 makes that very clear.  God is righteous, without the possibility of sinning.  So if he judges people~ then it is base upon his righteousness, because of when they knew God, they glorify him not as God.  Somewhere in their family tree, they rejected God in their thoughts, and refuse to acknowledge him as God, so he turn them over, to serve their own lust, and left them, and one of the end result is:  men with men, and women with women, working that which is unseemly, and against nature.

I have seventeen grandchildren, and only trust God, that he will not allow such things in our family.  Sodomy will increase, and be accepted as time draws near for our Lord's coming.  That is not my opinion, but words of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Luke 17:28 

May the Lord, who is gracious above all, be so to you.

RB       

I'm afraid Red, you have no understanding of the issue and to dismiss me, as being emotional, is patronising.

'These people' are your neighbours, the people who teach your grandchildren in school, the people who serve you in stores.  If you want to go ahead and call them by the name of their sin and describe them as 'cancer', then of course, you can.   But there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of believers who struggle with this.   Just because a person is a believer, does not mean their sin and temptation is magicked away.   It is a process of daily transformation - that is what the Bible says.   It also says there is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus - that means if a person struggles with something and commits their ways and their struggles to the Lord, He will help them, He will sustain them on the journey.    That is what God is in the business of doing.    For you to then label a believer with a sexual struggle, by the name of their sin....wow...!

If you're going to call believers by the name of their sin, then why not do it to everyone?  What is your sin, your weakness, that you struggle with, Red?  Perhaps we should all change our screen names on this site, to the name of our weakness?

Quote from: IHSscj on Sat Nov 03, 2012 - 20:18:12
The current trend is to insist that our inherent traits as individual be accepted, regardless of whether society accepts them.  But I was reading Codependent No More last night, and I got to the chapter, "learn the art of acceptance."  I realized that I had never fully resolved the issue of why I was never attracted to women.  I am devoted to Christ, so I am willing to do all for Him  -- even to the point of reconsidering my gay identity. 

Now, putting this in my own personal context, I have written a book, Teach Me, Loving Jesus, asking how I can find the "anti-gay" (or "traditional family") understanding that is supposed to be in scripture.  So far, no one has sent me any eMails telling me how to understand a passage, say I Corinthians 6, in terms of a condemnation of gayness, despite all my misgivings.  This is even though I have e-published my book on a website.  (I would post the link here, but I understand that it is disallowed.) 

So, even though my faith in Christ is strong, the prospect of living as anything but a joyful gay christian seems dim.   , 

Any thoughts?

I hope you dont mind me interjecting myself into your thread but this situation is deep in my heart.  Feel free to ignore this response but I found comfort in this commentary on the situation of homosexuality by Jack Kelley:

Homosexuals In The Rapture
Posted December 6th, 2008 in Selah, Tough Questions Answered

Commentary by Jack Kelley

Last week's question on whether homosexual believers will be taken in the Rapture or not has really sparked some interesting, even emotional comment.

As we begin this study, let's clarify a few points. Living a homosexual lifestyle is living in sin. Both Old and New Testaments make that clear. But all believers are sinners, and we're all living in sin of some kind. Half of us who've been married have also been divorced. The percentage of Christian women who've had abortions is the same as for non-believers. Many of us have sins we simply cannot stop committing. (These are sometimes called besetting sins.) Some don't really want to stop committing these sins, but many have "cried out to the Lord in sack cloth and ashes" for deliverance and still can't stop.

This is not a new phenomenon. Some of the great heroes of the Bible had sin problems they couldn't control. Moses had trouble with his temper, David had a weakness for women, and we'll get to Paul in a minute.

Continue reading:
http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/homosexuals-in-the-rapture/#more-6205


May God give you strength and comfort in your walk with Jesus.

Quote from: Gracey on Thu Jan 03, 2013 - 08:40:02
I'm afraid Red, you have no understanding of the issue and to dismiss me, as being emotional, is patronising.

'These people' are your neighbours, the people who teach your grandchildren in school, the people who serve you in stores.  If you want to go ahead and call them by the name of their sin and describe them as 'cancer', then of course, you can.   But there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of believers who struggle with this.   Just because a person is a believer, does not mean their sin and temptation is magicked away.   It is a process of daily transformation - that is what the Bible says.   It also says there is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus - that means if a person struggles with something and commits their ways and their struggles to the Lord, He will help them, He will sustain them on the journey.    That is what God is in the business of doing.    For you to then label a believer with a sexual struggle, by the name of their sin....wow...!


Love that!  Always the mote in our own eye overlooked.
If you're going to call believers by the name of their sin, then why not do it to everyone?  What is your sin, your weakness, that you struggle with, Red?  Perhaps we should all change our screen names on this site, to the name of our weakness?

Quote from: Stucky on Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 17:20:54

Quote from: IHSscj on Sat Nov 03, 2012 - 20:18:12
The current trend is to insist that our inherent traits as individual be accepted, regardless of whether society accepts them.  But I was reading Codependent No More last night, and I got to the chapter, "learn the art of acceptance."  I realized that I had never fully resolved the issue of why I was never attracted to women.  I am devoted to Christ, so I am willing to do all for Him  -- even to the point of reconsidering my gay identity. 

Now, putting this in my own personal context, I have written a book, Teach Me, Loving Jesus, asking how I can find the "anti-gay" (or "traditional family") understanding that is supposed to be in scripture.  So far, no one has sent me any eMails telling me how to understand a passage, say I Corinthians 6, in terms of a condemnation of gayness, despite all my misgivings.  This is even though I have e-published my book on a website.  (I would post the link here, but I understand that it is disallowed.) 

So, even though my faith in Christ is strong, the prospect of living as anything but a joyful gay christian seems dim.   , 

Any thoughts?

I hope you dont mind me interjecting myself into your thread but this situation is deep in my heart.  Feel free to ignore this response but I found comfort in this commentary on the situation of homosexuality by Jack Kelley:

Homosexuals In The Rapture
Posted December 6th, 2008 in Selah, Tough Questions Answered

Commentary by Jack Kelley

Last week's question on whether homosexual believers will be taken in the Rapture or not has really sparked some interesting, even emotional comment.

As we begin this study, let's clarify a few points. Living a homosexual lifestyle is living in sin. Both Old and New Testaments make that clear. But all believers are sinners, and we're all living in sin of some kind. Half of us who've been married have also been divorced. The percentage of Christian women who've had abortions is the same as for non-believers. Many of us have sins we simply cannot stop committing. (These are sometimes called besetting sins.) Some don't really want to stop committing these sins, but many have "cried out to the Lord in sack cloth and ashes" for deliverance and still can't stop.

This is not a new phenomenon. Some of the great heroes of the Bible had sin problems they couldn't control. Moses had trouble with his temper, David had a weakness for women, and we'll get to Paul in a minute.

Continue reading:
http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/homosexuals-in-the-rapture/#more-6205


May God give you strength and comfort in your walk with Jesus.

Great article.  We should be humble in our lack of understanding of other's struggles. It is not the sin we see people struggle with on earth but their personal relationship with God that determines their eternity.  He knows their mind and heart and understands what struggles they will win on this side.

Quote from: BF on Thu Mar 14, 2013 - 08:13:11

Quote from: Stucky on Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 17:20:54

Quote from: IHSscj on Sat Nov 03, 2012 - 20:18:12
The current trend is to insist that our inherent traits as individual be accepted, regardless of whether society accepts them.  But I was reading Codependent No More last night, and I got to the chapter, "learn the art of acceptance."  I realized that I had never fully resolved the issue of why I was never attracted to women.  I am devoted to Christ, so I am willing to do all for Him  -- even to the point of reconsidering my gay identity. 

Now, putting this in my own personal context, I have written a book, Teach Me, Loving Jesus, asking how I can find the "anti-gay" (or "traditional family") understanding that is supposed to be in scripture.  So far, no one has sent me any eMails telling me how to understand a passage, say I Corinthians 6, in terms of a condemnation of gayness, despite all my misgivings.  This is even though I have e-published my book on a website.  (I would post the link here, but I understand that it is disallowed.) 

So, even though my faith in Christ is strong, the prospect of living as anything but a joyful gay christian seems dim.   , 

Any thoughts?

I hope you dont mind me interjecting myself into your thread but this situation is deep in my heart.  Feel free to ignore this response but I found comfort in this commentary on the situation of homosexuality by Jack Kelley:

Homosexuals In The Rapture
Posted December 6th, 2008 in Selah, Tough Questions Answered

Commentary by Jack Kelley

Last week's question on whether homosexual believers will be taken in the Rapture or not has really sparked some interesting, even emotional comment.

As we begin this study, let's clarify a few points. Living a homosexual lifestyle is living in sin. Both Old and New Testaments make that clear. But all believers are sinners....

This is not a new phenomenon. Some of the great heroes of the Bible had sin problems they couldn't control. Moses had trouble with his temper, David had a weakness for women, and we'll get to Paul in a minute.

Continue reading:
http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/homosexuals-in-the-rapture/#more-6205


May God give you strength and comfort in your walk with Jesus.

Great article.  We should be humble in our lack of understanding of other's struggles. It is not the sin we see people struggle with on earth but their personal relationship with God that determines their eternity.  He knows their mind and heart and understands what struggles they will win on this side.

I would generally say that the Rapture is off the subject.  But, since you bring it up, I will just say that I trust Jesus for every good thing.  When the subject of the Rapture comes up, I generally shrug, say "It's all in my Savior Jesus' hands, so why worry?"   

Quote from: IHSscj on Sat Nov 17, 2012 - 21:40:54
The thing is, I've studied the so-called "slamming" scriptures (which, in reality, are no more or less the "Word of God" than the rest of the scriptures from which they are cherry-picked):

Genesis 18 & 19
Leviticus 18: 22 & 20: 13
Judges 19- 21
Romans 1: 18 - 2: 1
I Corinthians 6
I Timothy 1: 9- 11

I've looked at what conservative christians say they mean, what liberal christians say they (might) mean, and come up with no solid antigay p.o.v.  This is not to say that I believe that I can dispense with christian ethics as a whole.  But finding a fellow-christian who can explain how s/he knows that gayness is always sinful, that has been fruitless so far.

Stop looking at the wisdom of men. People are wrong. Stop making excuses for your sin, you know that the Word of God condemns homosexuality because it is contrary to nature.

Romans 1:26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.