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Hi, I'm new to the forum. I just find the website through google. I have issues with my wife daily and I'm just overburdened and want to see if anyone can help. If nothing else at least I can vent out. FYI: She has read the Help Meet book from Debi Pearl and both of us read the 5 love languages. We are in our late twenties.

An example that happened today:

She asked me to help with the flour as she was doing the dough. I went there. She asked me to open the plastic box, take the jar and take a jar of flour. She asked me to do this for a second jar too. Then I washed my hands. She right away started to condemn me saying that I shouldn't have washed my hands but I should have closed the flour sack. Even "worse" I should not close the flour sack with wet hands. Even if I dry my hands my hands will remain too wet to close the sack. I told her that simply it didn't come to my mind to close the sack or ask her. I was just following her instructions to help her so I thought that was it. She said she didn't want to give all the instructions at once and therefore she was expecting me to ask her what to do with the sack.  She made me very upset because simply put my mind works differently then hers and expecting such things and then being ugly with me I don't think it's right.

What do you guys think?

She is driving me crazy with her comments and expectations.

Hi and welcome, Gulliver!

There are many occasions in daily life when the different ways we do things around the home will trigger conflict. I think that the best solution is to make sure that an environment of loving respect is built, through practical 'love in action'. One of the best books about this is 'The Five Love Languages' by Chapman.

Then, when potential for conflict arises, you can both have soft hearts to resolve it and forgive hurts and offences.

Please do have a chat with your wife, explaining how you were hurt by her harshness, and also listening carefully to her side...perhaps she was being bossy and harsh, perhaps she feels like you don't pay attention when she asks you to help? I don't know. Talk about it and hopefully she will see the need to apologize, and you may need to as well.

One thing is for sure, God intends your wife to be 'your wife' and not your mother. Try to open up the communication, while resisting the temptation to get into shouting at each other when you do misunderstand each other.

Gulliver,

Nathaneal hit it on the head.  Your wife is "parenting" you.  Trying to tell you how to do things "the right way"  which means her way.  This can be a feature of controlling people.  I'm guilty of it. 

It may be time to see a marriage counselor because a neutral third party can tell her that she is doing this, that it is wrong, and that it builds resentment in the spouse.   Your wife really may be a loving, kind, well-intentioned person but just be misguided in how she is going about this communication.  This behavior belongs in a group of behavior known as "love busters"  (see the book) where by doing this behavior one negates/destroys the love in the home. 

Read about "parenting" a spouse.  Read about "controlling spouse".  Does this fit your situation.  Sometimes the only recourse in the situation is to firmly say " I don't agree".

If she is teachable or has some insight, you could show her these posts.

Wow !  Is there a virus out there. Just read the Bossy post and the NPD post. What the heck is going on ? Like I said , there is no perfect parking spot so just pretend.

Quote from: Nathanael on Wed Jun 06, 2012 - 14:26:14
Hi and welcome, Gulliver!

There are many occasions in daily life when the different ways we do things around the home will trigger conflict. I think that the best solution is to make sure that an environment of loving respect is built, through practical 'love in action'. One of the best books about this is 'The Five Love Languages' by Chapman.

Then, when potential for conflict arises, you can both have soft hearts to resolve it and forgive hurts and offences.

Please do have a chat with your wife, explaining how you were hurt by her harshness, and also listening carefully to her side...perhaps she was being bossy and harsh, perhaps she feels like you don't pay attention when she asks you to help? I don't know. Talk about it and hopefully she will see the need to apologize, and you may need to as well.

One thing is for sure, God intends your wife to be 'your wife' and not your mother. Try to open up the communication, while resisting the temptation to get into shouting at each other when you do misunderstand each other.

Exactly, I don't want her to be my mother and tell me what's right. Especially because I'm a very kind person and I was about to help. I think help has to be appreciated even if it doesn't turn out right. I just made a little mistake which for her was a BASIC and HUGE mistake. Other times she had a problem because I took a new knife and not used the one that was used and laying on the table. Other times I put the pots in the wrong order and so on. I do think it is petty. I also tried to talk to her but she usually does not want to talk to me. She says I just waste the time.

She definitely feels like I pay no attention and she verbalises this by saying I'm "not considerate". Try to be considerate when you are in the zone and you are just jump of from one task to help someone. I'm sure it's hard for others as well to fully concentrate on the new task. When you are in the zone you are totally focuses and immersed in the task. I told her this but she did not understand me.

I'm usually the last one to raise my voice. I hate shouting. Don't know how to handle her.

Quote from: johndoo on Thu Jun 07, 2012 - 04:12:16
Gulliver,

Nathaneal hit it on the head.  Your wife is "parenting" you.  Trying to tell you how to do things "the right way"  which means her way.  This can be a feature of controlling people.  I'm guilty of it. 

It may be time to see a marriage counselor because a neutral third party can tell her that she is doing this, that it is wrong, and that it builds resentment in the spouse.   Your wife really may be a loving, kind, well-intentioned person but just be misguided in how she is going about this communication.  This behavior belongs in a group of behavior known as "love busters"  (see the book) where by doing this behavior one negates/destroys the love in the home. 

Read about "parenting" a spouse.  Read about "controlling spouse".  Does this fit your situation.  Sometimes the only recourse in the situation is to firmly say " I don't agree".

If she is teachable or has some insight, you could show her these posts.

I feel parented. If I showed her these posts she would raise her voice. In her eyes I have too high standards and I always complain. She had a very controlling mother and she compares herself to her. She told me many times that she is much better than her mother and so many times she is managing herself not to fall into that trap. So she wants to do the right thing. Of course I see that she is not as bad as her mother but still.  I also don't compare to her mother but to the standard I have seen in the bible for women. In fact, I was so down that I contacted a counsellor. I had my first session last week. She didn't want to come...

Today, she asked me to do the washing up. I washed the butter dish and the cover, dried them and put them back on the table. I wanted to move the cover a bit so that there a gap between the dish and the cover so that the air can dry it thoroughly. But before I could have don it she asked me if I could let the air in. Then I told her what I wanted to do. So I just moved the cover and made the gap. But it wasn't enough for her. She told me that the cover should be put upside down so that it can dry. I told her that I would have thought the gap was enough. For her it wasn't. I think it's very petty just even to mention so I just let it go.

But then she saw me removing some mess from next to the washing basin with paper towel. She asked me why do I use the paper towel and not the sponge. I told her that because that was mess so for me it was logical to use the dispensable paper towel however for other cases I would use the sponge. She told me that she didn't understand my reason and it was crazy. And that I just waste the paper. I told her I usually use sheets per week but she said I use like 5 just during the weekend. I told her that it was petty to even mention this. She told me it wasn't because she has to go the shop and carry it. I said I also go to the shop many times to ease her burden. She just kept saying that I'm crazy and she can't understand me.

She was upset and she left for the weekly Lidl shopping. I was so upset I wanted crash something. I just threw the towel to the wall. But I'm just so disappointed. I was doing her a favor again and she comes up with such a little thing. Who cares how much paper towel I'm using. I can afford that. I earn well.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 09:16:59

Quote from: Gulliver on Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 08:03:05
Today, she asked me to do the washing up. I washed the butter dish and the cover, dried them and put them back on the table. I wanted to move the cover a bit so that there a gap between the dish and the cover so that the air can dry it thoroughly. But before I could have don it she asked me if I could let the air in. Then I told her what I wanted to do. So I just moved the cover and made the gap. But it wasn't enough for her. She told me that the cover should be put upside down so that it can dry. I told her that I would have thought the gap was enough. For her it wasn't. I think it's very petty just even to mention so I just let it go.

But then she saw me removing some mess from next to the washing basin with paper towel. She asked me why do I use the paper towel and not the sponge. I told her that because that was mess so for me it was logical to use the dispensable paper towel however for other cases I would use the sponge. She told me that she didn't understand my reason and it was crazy. And that I just waste the paper. I told her I usually use sheets per week but she said I use like 5 just during the weekend. I told her that it was petty to even mention this. She told me it wasn't because she has to go the shop and carry it. I said I also go to the shop many times to ease her burden. She just kept saying that I'm crazy and she can't understand me.

She was upset and she left for the weekly Lidl shopping. I was so upset I wanted crash something. I just threw the towel to the wall. But I'm just so disappointed. I was doing her a favor again and she comes up with such a little thing. Who cares how much paper towel I'm using. I can afford that. I earn well.

If I were you in that kind of situation, I would have left the butter dish as I placed it, and let her do her song and dance about it alone. she can readjust it, but you don't have to.

Ignoring bad behaviour takes the power out of it. Just like a child, you reward good behaviour with your attention. the bad gets ignored. she will learn quickly if you practice ignoring her nagging and treat her as you would a petulant child. It is for your sanity that you do this.


Giving her a litany of reasons as to why you do anything is feeding her. Just don't bother with it. How you get the job done is your decision. We do actually train people without being aware of it, how to treat us. Now is the time to start a retraining program!

Well, I would do tell the child my reasons and I believe he would understand it. Also, if she was my child she would have been already spanked so many times I could not count. But she is not my child so I just can't spank her.

I probably could not leave the dish as I placed once she asked of me something ie put the cover upside down. It's probably because I believe that if people ask of you a favour you shall do it. And so I did it.

But are you saying that if I have left the butter dish as I placed it would have trained her?

What about the paper towel? What would you have done?

Gulliver,

Your therapist can help you sort out these situations also so discuss these in counseling.

Keep inviting her to go to counseling with you.

So she told you that detailed explanations bother her ( she doesn't care) so you have a choice to make conversation more blunt and short.

With personality issues like controlling spouses, the knowledge that you know that they are off base is the power to blow it off.  The criticism isn't coming from a rational person.
It won't affect your self esteem because you know it is from someone who is way controlling.

  So you can know the criticism is just an opinion not a fact and not from an objective source.  You can let 80% of it run off your back.  Perhaps 20% is valid to consider.  The good old 80/20 rule. 

The towel vs sponge issue.  You can know it is irrational and controlling but use the sponge when she is around to appease her or just choose to ignore it.  It takes a lot of wisdom to know what issues to fight over and I hope you grow in wisdom daily.

Quote from: johndoo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 14:11:42
Gulliver,

Your therapist can help you sort out these situations also so discuss these in counseling.

Keep inviting her to go to counseling with you.

So she told you that detailed explanations bother her ( she doesn't care) so you have a choice to make conversation more blunt and short.

With personality issues like controlling spouses, the knowledge that you know that they are off base is the power to blow it off.  The criticism isn't coming from a rational person.
It won't affect your self esteem because you know it is from someone who is way controlling.

  So you can know the criticism is just an opinion not a fact and not from an objective source.  You can let 80% of it run off your back.  Perhaps 20% is valid to consider.  The good old 80/20 rule. 

The towel vs sponge issue.  You can know it is irrational and controlling but use the sponge when she is around to appease her or just choose to ignore it.  It takes a lot of wisdom to know what issues to fight over and I hope you grow in wisdom daily.

Re inviting her for counselling: I told her a couple of days ago that I met a counsellor. She said I was crazy. I asked her for an explanation and she said that her mother and stepfather used to go to several different counsellors which did not work.

She sometimes totally destroys my day and that sucks all my power out. I've been even in the state of depression and anxiety for 2 years which not I can somehow control. I till have some panic attacks though. I've read the Linden Method and I am able to control it much more.

To your point. She does effect my self esteem. I have difficulties to ignore as I don't like her being sad so I want to solve the situation.

I already try to make the conversations shorter but when she interrupts me or does leads the topic away it's really not easy.

Re paper towel: every time she was in the room I was afraid she would comment it. But I tried to fight that feeling and went with my gut feeling which was that I can use the paper towel because I have the right to do so. Now she said she understands my reason (although she said I have exaggerated feelings towards what's clean and what's not). I will try to ignore her but it's just not easy. Isn't it enough to fight the world - who needs to fight at home. I just need a help meet and support. But like this I don't feel like supported.

Gulliver,
      My prayers are with you and your wife.  I can see that even the smallest issues have you at your wits end.  One thing I always try to remember and have shared with my fiance are that fights or arguments are usually mild disagreements with a lot of emotion involved.
       If you are going to deal with this effectively I have a few suggestions.  First of all, completely abandon the idea of convincing her to go to counseling at the moment.  Telling someone else they are in need of professional help is combative and accusatory at best.  She needs to get there on her own.
      If she is raising her voice to you over trivial things, and they are all trivial things, remind her that you love her and that you hate to see such a small thing cause pain or trouble in your relationship.  Then redirect by promting her to state the issue and why it made her react that way.  For example:   "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset."
      The other strategy is to use what is known as an "I statement".  This communication tool will help her understand the way she is making you feel or the impact her actions have on your relationship.  The "I statement" has three critical components.  State the behavior (be specific), state how it made you feel and state what you would prefer going forward.
 
     "Honey, when you saw me using paper towels as opposed to the sponge you yelled at me and told me I was inconsiderate, it hurts my feelings and frustrates me that you would react so angrily to such a small issue, in the future I am more than open to discussing different ways of doing things but I would prefer to do so more calmly."

      Hopefully this will help her see the impact she is having on you.  The other part is to set boundaries.  You must first define and then refuse to tolerate unacceptable behaviors.  This does not mean you get mad and scream at her when she screams at you.  Simply remind her of the fact she is across a line and do not engage her until she is back on the other side.

      Lastly, try and see it from her side.  Like your issue with the flower sack.  She may have been frustrated that she was asking for your participation and all she got was just the minimum and then you were back to doing whatever it is you were doing that was not baking with her.  In a similar situation, try getting her the flower as requested then kissing her on the cheek and asking her what else you can do to help.  If she says nothing, then just hang out with her and talk.

Good luck and never forget to lean on your love.

Quote from: psalm22 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 14:46:46
Gulliver,
      My prayers are with you and your wife.  I can see that even the smallest issues have you at your wits end.  One thing I always try to remember and have shared with my fiance are that fights or arguments are usually mild disagreements with a lot of emotion involved.
       If you are going to deal with this effectively I have a few suggestions.  First of all, completely abandon the idea of convincing her to go to counseling at the moment.  Telling someone else they are in need of professional help is combative and accusatory at best.  She needs to get there on her own.
      If she is raising her voice to you over trivial things, and they are all trivial things, remind her that you love her and that you hate to see such a small thing cause pain or trouble in your relationship.  Then redirect by promting her to state the issue and why it made her react that way.  For example:   "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset."
      The other strategy is to use what is known as an "I statement".  This communication tool will help her understand the way she is making you feel or the impact her actions have on your relationship.  The "I statement" has three critical components.  State the behavior (be specific), state how it made you feel and state what you would prefer going forward.
 
     "Honey, when you saw me using paper towels as opposed to the sponge you yelled at me and told me I was inconsiderate, it hurts my feelings and frustrates me that you would react so angrily to such a small issue, in the future I am more than open to discussing different ways of doing things but I would prefer to do so more calmly."

      Hopefully this will help her see the impact she is having on you.  The other part is to set boundaries.  You must first define and then refuse to tolerate unacceptable behaviors.  This does not mean you get mad and scream at her when she screams at you.  Simply remind her of the fact she is across a line and do not engage her until she is back on the other side.

      Lastly, try and see it from her side.  Like your issue with the flower sack.  She may have been frustrated that she was asking for your participation and all she got was just the minimum and then you were back to doing whatever it is you were doing that was not baking with her.  In a similar situation, try getting her the flower as requested then kissing her on the cheek and asking her what else you can do to help.  If she says nothing, then just hang out with her and talk.

Good luck and never forget to lean on your love.

+1.

It is quite childish for her overreactions over petty things. She ought to learn patience and know how to speak and teach you in certain areas calmly. There is no need for anyone to be a doormat and see that it just fine to receive just poor treatment from your spouse. Not healthy for the marriage.

Quote from: psalm22 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 14:46:46
Gulliver,
      My prayers are with you and your wife.  I can see that even the smallest issues have you at your wits end.  One thing I always try to remember and have shared with my fiance are that fights or arguments are usually mild disagreements with a lot of emotion involved.
       If you are going to deal with this effectively I have a few suggestions.  First of all, completely abandon the idea of convincing her to go to counseling at the moment.  Telling someone else they are in need of professional help is combative and accusatory at best.  She needs to get there on her own.
      If she is raising her voice to you over trivial things, and they are all trivial things, remind her that you love her and that you hate to see such a small thing cause pain or trouble in your relationship.  Then redirect by promting her to state the issue and why it made her react that way.  For example:   "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset."
      The other strategy is to use what is known as an "I statement".  This communication tool will help her understand the way she is making you feel or the impact her actions have on your relationship.  The "I statement" has three critical components.  State the behavior (be specific), state how it made you feel and state what you would prefer going forward.
 
     "Honey, when you saw me using paper towels as opposed to the sponge you yelled at me and told me I was inconsiderate, it hurts my feelings and frustrates me that you would react so angrily to such a small issue, in the future I am more than open to discussing different ways of doing things but I would prefer to do so more calmly."

      Hopefully this will help her see the impact she is having on you.  The other part is to set boundaries.  You must first define and then refuse to tolerate unacceptable behaviors.  This does not mean you get mad and scream at her when she screams at you.  Simply remind her of the fact she is across a line and do not engage her until she is back on the other side.

      Lastly, try and see it from her side.  Like your issue with the flower sack.  She may have been frustrated that she was asking for your participation and all she got was just the minimum and then you were back to doing whatever it is you were doing that was not baking with her.  In a similar situation, try getting her the flower as requested then kissing her on the cheek and asking her what else you can do to help.  If she says nothing, then just hang out with her and talk.

Good luck and never forget to lean on your love.

Thank you for your prayers!

Ok, I will not ask her for coming with me for counselling.

Yes, when I tell her eg "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset." then she becomes even more upset and tells me "I raised my voice, I can show you what really raising my voice means"

If I say "Hey, honey why to comment such a little thing?" She says "It's not a little thing and you are petty."

If I say "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset." she would reply "that you don't consider things practically."

Sometimes, by the way, it's not about raising her voice but just making a comment that upsets me. Why to make a comment over such little things. I don't do that when she does something wrong on the computer for instance. I just repair it. But she is even used to condemn herself when she does something wrong so I think that's one of the root of the problem. Eg if she breaks a glass she yells at herself and says "Judy [her name], how could you be so bad. Concentrate more etc." - She literally condemns herself which I never understood. I just tell her "hey love, come on nothing happened, it's just a glass, we will buy a new one" Then she tells me that she is indeed fully blame for what she did and it was so bad. I tell her that she does not need to blame herself because things like that just happens. I just go and collect the glass splinters. So you see if she blames herself for these little things what do you think she will say when I make a mistake. My mentality is totally different. I hate blaming so I rather fix it.

"Honey, when you saw me using paper towels as opposed to the sponge you yelled at me and told me I was inconsiderate, it hurts my feelings and frustrates me that you would react so angrily to such a small issue, in the future I am more than open to discussing different ways of doing things but I would prefer to do so more calmly." - she would say "I can't hold back myself at that moment, it just comes out. If I held back it would be worse later as it would come out later in a worse way"

Quote from: Man_Of_Honor on Thu Jun 21, 2012 - 15:10:07

Quote from: psalm22 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 14:46:46
Gulliver,
      My prayers are with you and your wife.  I can see that even the smallest issues have you at your wits end.  One thing I always try to remember and have shared with my fiance are that fights or arguments are usually mild disagreements with a lot of emotion involved.
       If you are going to deal with this effectively I have a few suggestions.  First of all, completely abandon the idea of convincing her to go to counseling at the moment.  Telling someone else they are in need of professional help is combative and accusatory at best.  She needs to get there on her own.
      If she is raising her voice to you over trivial things, and they are all trivial things, remind her that you love her and that you hate to see such a small thing cause pain or trouble in your relationship.  Then redirect by promting her to state the issue and why it made her react that way.  For example:   "Wow honey, I hate to see us get upset at each other over a butter dish, please help me understand what I did that made you so upset."
      The other strategy is to use what is known as an "I statement".  This communication tool will help her understand the way she is making you feel or the impact her actions have on your relationship.  The "I statement" has three critical components.  State the behavior (be specific), state how it made you feel and state what you would prefer going forward.
 
     "Honey, when you saw me using paper towels as opposed to the sponge you yelled at me and told me I was inconsiderate, it hurts my feelings and frustrates me that you would react so angrily to such a small issue, in the future I am more than open to discussing different ways of doing things but I would prefer to do so more calmly."

      Hopefully this will help her see the impact she is having on you.  The other part is to set boundaries.  You must first define and then refuse to tolerate unacceptable behaviors.  This does not mean you get mad and scream at her when she screams at you.  Simply remind her of the fact she is across a line and do not engage her until she is back on the other side.

      Lastly, try and see it from her side.  Like your issue with the flower sack.  She may have been frustrated that she was asking for your participation and all she got was just the minimum and then you were back to doing whatever it is you were doing that was not baking with her.  In a similar situation, try getting her the flower as requested then kissing her on the cheek and asking her what else you can do to help.  If she says nothing, then just hang out with her and talk.

Good luck and never forget to lean on your love.

+1.

It is quite childish for her overreactions over petty things. She ought to learn patience and know how to speak and teach you in certain areas calmly. There is no need for anyone to be a doormat and see that it just fine to receive just poor treatment from your spouse. Not healthy for the marriage.

That's what I'm saying. I just want to calmly discuss things instead of raising voice. Also, if things are little things I don't want to have even a comment. It's just childish.

Maybe she is also perfectionistic.
She expects perfection out  of others.
She expects perfection of herself.
She has no grace for herself or others. 
It is not a fun way to live.
There is some good stuff to read about perfectionism online.

Quote from: johndoo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 16:30:45
Maybe she is also perfectionistic.
She expects perfection out  of others.
She expects perfection of herself.
She has no grace for herself or others. 
It is not a fun way to live.
There is some good stuff to read about perfectionism online.

I believe she is a perfectionist in certain ways. Can you recommend any reading/link/book about this topic?

The article on perfectionism at Wikipedia would be  a place to start
Especially under implications /applications.
It is possible that if you could get her to see how it effects her she would be eventually brought around to see how it effects you.

HMMMMMMMMMM  still praying for you man.  Since your last post there are a couple of things I would like to add.

      First, with regard to discussing things calmly,  you may need to set some boundaries with how you engage each other.  This is gonna be less fun than giving yourself a bikini wax with duct tape, however, desperate times.  The next time she goes off on you, let her simmer down and then sit down with her, start by telling her how much you love her and how important to you your relationship is.  Then tell her that when she reacts in that fashion how it impacts you and that you are no longer willing to engage her in that fashion.  If she is frustrated you want to know but you expect to talk about it calmly.  If she cannot express herself calmly than you will not engage, period.  The next time she goes off like that, tell her she has crossed the line and you would be happy to hear her out when she is more calm, then walk away.  Do not get sucked in or respond angrily.  She is likely to go ballistic the first few times but she will eventually see that you will not tolerate her behavior.  Like I said, this is not likely to be much fun but hopefully some short term pain will yield results and help you avoid a lifetime of frustration.

      The other thing is acceptance.  One of the best things about feeling loved by anyone is feeling acceptance.  When we are in a relationship where someone else is constantly frustrated by us or is constantly trying to "change" us, it makes us feel if that acceptance is in jeopardy.  If I don't lose weight, eat right, stop this, do that or make a change then they will stop loving me and I will lose my relationship.  We all experience that.  What we often do not consider is that even if we change it can lead to a lot of built up frustration and resentment.  Say you play bridge with your friends every Tuesday and Thursday.  Your mate begins to give you a lot of grief about always hanging out with your friends or neglecting them in favor of your activity or that it takes too much time ect.  You see her point, want to make them happy or simply want to end the nagging so you quit the bridge club.  At best you wind up missing your friends or your hobby and you build resentment (mild or wild) that this thing that was a part of you was taken away or given up.  At worse, you resent and miss it enough that you find a way to continue behind their back, lying and making excuses along the way and when you get busted it feels to them like a major betrayal.

      Sorry, I am having a bad disorganized thought day.  My point is.  Sit down and make a list of what you love about her and what you wish she would change or do differently.  The next thing you do is ask yourself one important question about each of the things you don't like.  "Am I willing to end this relationship if this does not change."  If the answer is no, then scratch it off the list.  If there is anything left, those are the things that you cannot accept.  For the person whom you love above all others, I am willing to guess the list will be pretty short.  If there is something left then that is what you work on.  Take a look at everything you scratched off.  That is where acceptance lives.  If you have scratched it off the list then do not try to change it. 
      I love being a child of God.  I know there are lots of things about me on the don't like it side but my Saviour has scratched them all off the list.

Blessings,
Rob

Quote from: psalm22 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 15:21:47
HMMMMMMMMMM  still praying for you man.  Since your last post there are a couple of things I would like to add.

      First, with regard to discussing things calmly,  you may need to set some boundaries with how you engage each other.  This is gonna be less fun than giving yourself a bikini wax with duct tape, however, desperate times.  The next time she goes off on you, let her simmer down and then sit down with her, start by telling her how much you love her and how important to you your relationship is.  Then tell her that when she reacts in that fashion how it impacts you and that you are no longer willing to engage her in that fashion.  If she is frustrated you want to know but you expect to talk about it calmly.  If she cannot express herself calmly than you will not engage, period.  The next time she goes off like that, tell her she has crossed the line and you would be happy to hear her out when she is more calm, then walk away.  Do not get sucked in or respond angrily.  She is likely to go ballistic the first few times but she will eventually see that you will not tolerate her behavior.  Like I said, this is not likely to be much fun but hopefully some short term pain will yield results and help you avoid a lifetime of frustration.

      The other thing is acceptance.  One of the best things about feeling loved by anyone is feeling acceptance.  When we are in a relationship where someone else is constantly frustrated by us or is constantly trying to "change" us, it makes us feel if that acceptance is in jeopardy.  If I don't lose weight, eat right, stop this, do that or make a change then they will stop loving me and I will lose my relationship.  We all experience that.  What we often do not consider is that even if we change it can lead to a lot of built up frustration and resentment.  Say you play bridge with your friends every Tuesday and Thursday.  Your mate begins to give you a lot of grief about always hanging out with your friends or neglecting them in favor of your activity or that it takes too much time ect.  You see her point, want to make them happy or simply want to end the nagging so you quit the bridge club.  At best you wind up missing your friends or your hobby and you build resentment (mild or wild) that this thing that was a part of you was taken away or given up.  At worse, you resent and miss it enough that you find a way to continue behind their back, lying and making excuses along the way and when you get busted it feels to them like a major betrayal.

      Sorry, I am having a bad disorganized thought day.  My point is.  Sit down and make a list of what you love about her and what you wish she would change or do differently.  The next thing you do is ask yourself one important question about each of the things you don't like.  "Am I willing to end this relationship if this does not change."  If the answer is no, then scratch it off the list.  If there is anything left, those are the things that you cannot accept.  For the person whom you love above all others, I am willing to guess the list will be pretty short.  If there is something left then that is what you work on.  Take a look at everything you scratched off.  That is where acceptance lives.  If you have scratched it off the list then do not try to change it. 
      I love being a child of God.  I know there are lots of things about me on the don't like it side but my Saviour has scratched them all off the list.

Blessings,
Rob

Thanks for your prayer. I've read your message but I'm unsure. If I did the list the way you described there would not have been anything on it. But that does not mean I can live like that with her, it just means I would not leave her for it. I am very much against divorce.

You might be right in not engaging when when she goes off the limit. I will try that.

Other than that, things are better a little bit. She is improving - she is reading the book titled "Love as a way of life" by Gary Chapman. She shows noticable changes. However, she keeps commenting. She tries it nicer but it still bothers me a lot. I don't need comments for little things.

Hi Guys,

1. I know it was long ago I started this topic but I wanted to give you an update as I feel you were supporting me. We moved from our tiny studio apartment to a more spacious one bedroom flat. Since she was frustrated with the small space and the long commute it changed some of her behaviors. I feel hurt that she didn't listen to me when I suggested moving home several times in the past.

2. After reading the 5 love languages and having only a short lasting positive effect I saw that it's not only about love. There is a problem with communication. For this reason I bought a couple of books on communication for couples. The first one is Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. I just finished the book a couple of days ago. It's is awesome and highly recommended. It answers some of my questions and gives some good practical guidance.

3. I'm hurt that she does not take it as responsibly as I. I initiated going to a counsellor which she rejected on the spot. Now as I bought the Mars and Venus book (I bought a second copy for her) I suggested her to read it. I've read it in 3 days and took 2 days off from my home based work. I did not expect her to take off holidays (although it would have shown me that she really cares) but she is reading it as if it was a secondary thing and if it was forced. I did not force her to read it but I think it's fair to say that if both of us feel we want to save this marriage we would put into it as much effort as we can. She does not put into it as much effort. Today in the morning we had a talk and I asked her if she thinks she would finish reading the book. She said that she may. Then I had a nap after lunch. As I woke up and came into the living room I saw her reading the bible (not the Mars and Venus book). I was hurt. I explained it to her but she feels she is responsible but she needs some time out at the weekend. She also blamed me that she could not finish reading a certain story in the bible because we "talked" last weekend. Which means I was the cause of this as I initiated the talk. For her talks remain very negative and she seldom initiates them. It's very hard for her to remain calm during talking. I feel that every responsibility is on me regarding finding out how to sort out our misunderstandings and differences.

4. Our sex life has become even more infrequent. When we do have sex she shows little affection and passion. This is not new, she was very shy from the beginning and I still feel making love to a virgin. I hate that feeling. I want her to mature and I don't know how to help her in this.

Gulliver

Gulliver,

Glad to see that you are hanging in there and doing positive, purposeful things to sustain your marriage.
What insight has the therapist given you personally?

From the outside, one nugget of advise would be to see the marriage as a marathon.  It is a "long run".  The things that drive you crazy in the instant are likely to be of little consequence in the end.  For example, the fact that she is reading one book instead of the other.  Remember that you don't like to be parented so we don't want to parent.  For the most part, telling your spouse how to micromanage their time will not work and create resentment. 
One option is to just blow it off.  It is consistent with her other behaviors so why be suprised.
Another option is to put a positive spin on it.  Many people on these forums would be shouting Hallelujah if their spouse read the Word.

You know, it isn't rare that one spouse works harder to preserve and sustain the marriage.  It isn't always fun.  If you see the marriage as being part of the will of God, it is a doable thing in many cases.

Down the road, if she eventually reads the current book, consider "Sheet Music" by Leman or try again about seeing a counselor.
God bless.

You may want to re-think your approach.  It was certainly kind of you to get 2 copies of the mars/venus book, but it was your idea to read it not even an agreed upon decision.  It sounds like you are giving her a task to complete rather than a choice.  Honestly, too, regardless of how good that other book may be, the Bible should probably be choice #1 on the reading list.

You just aren't going to be able to put things on a virtual scale, look at them and say "I did this and that and this good.  But she didn't do that."  You won't ever reach the place God wants for you by comparing like that.  How about reading James?  All of it. then look back and see what God would have you do, regardless of what your wife does or doesn't do.

Finally, brother, know I'm praying for you and for perseverence.

Quote from: NowFound on Mon Jan 28, 2013 - 10:58:10
You may want to re-think your approach.  It was certainly kind of you to get 2 copies of the mars/venus book, but it was your idea to read it not even an agreed upon decision.  It sounds like you are giving her a task to complete rather than a choice.  Honestly, too, regardless of how good that other book may be, the Bible should probably be choice #1 on the reading list.

You just aren't going to be able to put things on a virtual scale, look at them and say "I did this and that and this good.  But she didn't do that."  You won't ever reach the place God wants for you by comparing like that.  How about reading James?  All of it. then look back and see what God would have you do, regardless of what your wife does or doesn't do.

Finally, brother, know I'm praying for you and for perseverence.

Wow.  You mean, approach this the way God wants us to?  What a novel idea.

Amen.  Great post.

Quote from: johndoo on Sun Jan 27, 2013 - 07:14:14
Gulliver,

Glad to see that you are hanging in there and doing positive, purposeful things to sustain your marriage.
What insight has the therapist given you personally?

From the outside, one nugget of advise would be to see the marriage as a marathon.  It is a "long run".  The things that drive you crazy in the instant are likely to be of little consequence in the end.  For example, the fact that she is reading one book instead of the other.  Remember that you don't like to be parented so we don't want to parent.  For the most part, telling your spouse how to micromanage their time will not work and create resentment. 
One option is to just blow it off.  It is consistent with her other behaviors so why be suprised.
Another option is to put a positive spin on it.  Many people on these forums would be shouting Hallelujah if their spouse read the Word.

You know, it isn't rare that one spouse works harder to preserve and sustain the marriage.  It isn't always fun.  If you see the marriage as being part of the will of God, it is a doable thing in many cases.

Down the road, if she eventually reads the current book, consider "Sheet Music" by Leman or try again about seeing a counselor.
God bless.

There was nothing useful from the therapist at all.

I'm sure it's a marathon but this is not the only way she shows ignorance to improve our marriage. As I previously said she rejected the idea to see therapist together. Also, whenever there is issue I'm the one who initiates. Of course reading a book little later is not a big deal. But it's in a context. I suffer badly and every minute it stays stagnant I continue suffering. The other day she asked me what do I think about a certain chapter. I immediately switched to that chapter. If she asked me now as I'm typing she would like to talk to me I would not finish this line and just put aside the laptop and listen to her. That's for me availability and care. Obviously we have different definitions of this.

Sheet music is on my amazon wishlist. Just waiting for the right time. (eg once the Mars/Venus book is finished.)

Quote from: NowFound on Mon Jan 28, 2013 - 10:58:10
You may want to re-think your approach.  It was certainly kind of you to get 2 copies of the mars/venus book, but it was your idea to read it not even an agreed upon decision.  It sounds like you are giving her a task to complete rather than a choice.  Honestly, too, regardless of how good that other book may be, the Bible should probably be choice #1 on the reading list.

You just aren't going to be able to put things on a virtual scale, look at them and say "I did this and that and this good.  But she didn't do that."  You won't ever reach the place God wants for you by comparing like that.  How about reading James?  All of it. then look back and see what God would have you do, regardless of what your wife does or doesn't do.

Finally, brother, know I'm praying for you and for perseverence.

I think there are different priorities at different times. The Bible does not give practical guide on how to deal with your emotions in a marriage or talk about the communication differences of genders. At times when this is needed I think reading such a book is a higher priority. But I understand your point.