Christian Forums

Quote from: Lively Stone on Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20

Quote from: Thaddaeus on Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33

Quote from: OldDad on Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.

Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.

that is the truest thing you have stated.

As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.

These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?

EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.

These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.

The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.

I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.

Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity. They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....something that Jesus Himself spoke rather harshly about---as did Paul under God's inspiration. So, they fall outside of Christianity.

Mark 7:8
For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition.

Colossians 2:8
Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.


Any doctrine or thinking that doesn't coincide with Jesus---throw it out, turn away.

QuoteThey do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....

In order to be man's tradition, which man or men formulated which doctrine(s) in the Orthodox Church.

Let's not make this another unfounded, and unsupported assertion.

QuoteSo, they fall outside of Christianity.

So what is your definition of "Christianity", Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism), Michael Servetus (Unitarianism), Russellism(Jehovah Witnesses)? Eddyism(Christian Science)? Whiteism(Seventh Day Adventist)? Thomasism (Christadelphians)? Parhamism(Pentecostals)? Murrayism (Universalist)?

And we should not forget (Stoneism).

I can go on. Everyone of these claims to be based on the Word of God (scriptures), so by your definition, these are NOT man made traditions but Christianity.

True Christianity is not a religion rife with regulations and man-made traditions that men hold sacred, but is a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu May 09, 2013 - 13:37:06
True Christianity is not a religion rife with regulations and man-made traditions that men hold sacred, but is a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.

So, you cannot back up your unfounded assertions.  Might have known it would be a wasted question.

Quote from: Red Baker on Wed May 08, 2013 - 13:29:18
Thaddaues You said: #1~"Do you not know that the scriptures were written by those Apostles.  And you asking them to support what they say with scripture?" 

When I said these words: "I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven"~I was not referring to the apostles, but to born again children of God, then too are the disciples of the Lord Jesus.  Not sure how you could not follow something as simple as that. 

I am not going to go back and play games with someone who uses almost no scriptures, but a bunch words to no profit.  Some men argue to prove doctrines, which is a good thing; others argue to be just arguing, to try to hinder those who have truth and speak it. It is clear, that you are such a person. Acts 13:45!  and there are others.

Since you will not give certain specific that you feel strongly in defending, then I will take some of your twisted views and expose them.  Maybe in the morning. 

RB

I'll have to testify to that, not worth debating with him.

I think this is true (I know, I know, I can't believe it either. Just move along....):

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu May 09, 2013 - 13:37:06
True Christianity is....a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.

But, that doesn't mean that religion or structured practice, or structured communities are de facto, not appropriate or somehow obviates one's Christianity.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20

Quote from: Thaddaeus on Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33

Quote from: OldDad on Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.

Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.

that is the truest thing you have stated.

As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.

These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?

EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.

These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.

The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.

I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.

Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity. They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....something that Jesus Himself spoke rather harshly about---as did Paul under God's inspiration. So, they fall outside of Christianity.

Mark 7:8
For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition.

Colossians 2:8
Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.


Any doctrine or thinking that doesn't coincide with Jesus---throw it out, turn away.

Define "coincide." I suspect a better word would be "compatible," so that we would have "any doctrine or thinking that isn't compatible with Jesus--throw it out, turn away." Jesus did not define everything about how Christians should live or structure their communities with each other in finite detail. It is not necessary that Jesus must have voiced something for that something to be valid.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20

Quote from: Thaddaeus on Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33

Quote from: OldDad on Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.

Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.

that is the truest thing you have stated.

As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.

These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?

EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.

These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.

The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.

I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.

Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.

They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 01:14:32

Quote from: Lively Stone on Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20

Quote from: Thaddaeus on Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33

Quote from: OldDad on Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.

Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.

that is the truest thing you have stated.

As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.

These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?

EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.

These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.

The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.

I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.

Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.

They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.

No, they are not mainstream, nor do they model what the Body of Christ looks like in the world.

Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 08:54:18 AM » Insert Quote

You asked LS: "So what is your definition of "Christianity", Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism), Michael Servetus (Unitarianism), Russellism(Jehovah Witnesses)? Eddyism(Christian Science)? Whiteism(Seventh Day Adventist)? Thomasism (Christadelphians)? Parhamism(Pentecostals)? Murrayism (Universalist)?

And we should not forget (Stoneism).

I can go on. Everyone of these claims to be based on the Word of God (scriptures), so by your definition, these are NOT man made traditions but Christianity"

So, you believe that your faith/religion is the only sound, biblical religion left on the face of the earth?   Can I ask one question?  Your "twin sister" that separated from you, or you from her, whatever???  Is she a man made religion as well?  Roman Catholic Church, and how do you two different?   As I have already said:

"I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5.  It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed.   We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be.  We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion.  One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man.   We all will die with some errors.  But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19"

We as children of God understand regeneration "and conversion"~that they are NOT ONE AND THE SAME, and, one can truly be a regenerated child of God, yet might not be in full agreement with each other, nevertheless, we do have one common link that links us together as God's children, that this:  we trust solely in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, believing that it is a free gift by the grace of God, and that works has nothing to do with it. 

That being said, they will be differences of beliefs, but eternal life is is not base upon our ability to understand truths, but eternal life is base upon HIM WHO HAD PERFECT TRUTH AND PERFECT RIGHTEOUNESS. even Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.  

All works are removed from the promises of God to the seed of Jesus Christ, because he alone, IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS!

That being said, it does not mean that we believe that all religions are going to receive the reward of the world to come, because many have another gospel base upon pure works, while at the same time, deny many of the truths of the scriptures, such as the deity of Jesus Christ, etc. 

We know that many of the people of these groups that you mentioned: "Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism),"~have many children of God within them, only they are not converted on some truths.   These groups overall, trusted in Jesus Christ, but with a certain amount of truth and error mixed.  I believe that God has "some" of his children in the Catholic churches. 

We prove our faith by our works of righteousness.  No man can have assurance that he is of God, unless , he is in the truth.  We can only give assurance to ourselves and to others base upon our godliness, and doctrine.  But, we are humans and cannot see into the hearts of any man.  Unless we had Peter's confession concerning Lot being a righteous man, we would be fighting among ourselves on this forum trying to decide if he was or not, if we only had the OT scriptures!  And there are others, like Samson, how about Saul, the first king of Israel?

Are all outside of your faith/religion, under the "eternal" judgment of God?  I would say this: all within your group are not given evidence that they are of God, but some very well could be!  I use the scriptures to determined if one is of God or not, you use your religion to make that determination.

RB

Red Baker,

QuoteSo, you believe that your faith/religion is the only sound, biblical religion left on the face of the earth?   Can I ask one question?  Your "twin sister" that separated from you, or you from her, whatever???  Is she a man made religion as well?  Roman Catholic Church, and how do you two different?   As I have already said:

The RCC has become a man made religion. When Pope Leo the IX finally and permanently to this point separated from the Body of Christ to establish the RCC, it became a organizational, man led, man  created religion.  They separated on only two disputes, however, since have created many more man made theories and interpretations of scripture.

Quote"I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5.  It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed.   We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be.  We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion.  One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man.   We all will die with some errors.  But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19"

You have clearly and unequivically stated that it is a man made religion. You picked a single verse and established a whole new faith based upon it.

YOu show a huge difference in your understanding of the text as well. I don't know of any Christian who actually believes justification that Christ gives to us by faith is something done by man. That justification is based on what Christ did, and no man can contribute to what Christ did. Which is why we are justifed by faith and not works of the law.  Rom 5:19 is referencing Christ's work which is for all men. He made all men righteous vs18,  II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25 for just a couple of aligning texts.

QuoteWe as children of God understand regeneration "and conversion"~that they are NOT ONE AND THE SAME, and, one can truly be a regenerated child of God, yet might not be in full agreement with each other, nevertheless, we do have one common link that links us together as God's children, that this:  we trust solely in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, believing that it is a free gift by the grace of God, and that works has nothing to do with it. 

which is a peculiarity of your religion.  It is one of those things that will make it different than the Gospel of Christ as it was always understood and did not need to be relativized for the purpose of man.

Again, I think you are misunderstanding the atonement as well. Atonement does not mean forgiveness. The Atonement was for the sin of the world.   It provides for Christ to be the High Priest and to forgive sins. Works is how we sin.  YOu cannot sin without doing something, in this case, against God's will. Sin will separate one from God.  It is why forgiveness is necessary in order to remain IN Christ.

QuoteThat being said, they will be differences of beliefs, but eternal life is is not base upon our ability to understand truths, but eternal life is base upon HIM WHO HAD PERFECT TRUTH AND PERFECT RIGHTEOUNESS. even Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God. 

which is true as far as it goes. Christ's perfect righteouness was given to all men. Every single human being has been given eternal life. It is why and how all men will be raised in the last day.

But where you spend eternity is your choice. Whether you spend it in heaven or hell is solely your choice and based on your faithfulness to His will. This is those texts you are misunderstanding because they are Incarnational. Rom 11:32, Rom 5:18, Rom 3:23-25, II Cor 5:18-19, Col 1:20, John 6:39, Heb 2:14-17, John 4:42, Rev 20:11-13, I Cor 15:12-22 and others.

QuoteAll works are removed from the promises of God to the seed of Jesus Christ, because he alone, IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS

as He is for every human being.

However, your personal righteousness in Christ is granted ONLY by faith.  Even at that, justification by faith does not save a person.  I allows or grants entrance into Christ.  ONce IN Christ it is all about living according to His Will. That is the meaning of being saved "through faith".  It is all about works which James writes about. Here we are also justified by works and not faith only- James 2:24.

QuoteThat being said, it does not mean that we believe that all religions are going to receive the reward of the world to come, because many have another gospel base upon pure works, while at the same time, deny many of the truths of the scriptures, such as the deity of Jesus Christ, etc.

which is based on your misunderstanding of scripture to begin with.

QuoteThese groups overall, trusted in Jesus Christ, but with a certain amount of truth and error mixed.  I believe that God has "some" of his children in the Catholic churches. 

there may be some who might be saved. But by any meaning of scripture they are outside of the Body of Christ as described in scripture. But we also know many are saved outside of the NT. That is confirmed by the OT as well as Paul's statement of Rom 1:18-24.  Every single human being will give an account of what he personally did with the knowledge and grace of God given to Him. This also goes right back to the parable of the talents.

QuoteWe prove our faith by our works of righteousness.  No man can have assurance that he is of God, unless , he is in the truth. 

Now you seem to be switching. Now we are being saved by our works. You applied the other statement to believers as well, now you have works of righteouness, which is correct, but what about your statement we are not saved by works.

QuoteAre all outside of your faith/religion, under the "eternal" judgment of God?  I would say this: all within your group are not given evidence that they are of God, but some very well could be!  I use the scriptures to determined if one is of God or not, you use your religion to make that determination.

You are quite incorrect as to my judgement. I don't judge at all and neither does the Church. That is reserved to God alone. However, there will be more Orthodox and RCC in hell than any other church only because we outnumber by a wide margin the number who have been either Orthodox, or RCC. Being in the Body of Christ does not guarantee anything.  It is the living in faith, according to His will that will matter.

But it is important to actually understand who the Christ is as He has revealed Himself, and not by some man who developed his own ideas of who he is including the definition of the Body of Christ.

Just for the record, You still have not listed ONE, false teaching of the Orthodox Church.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri May 10, 2013 - 03:12:12

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 01:14:32

Quote from: Lively Stone on Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20

Quote from: Thaddaeus on Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33

Quote from: OldDad on Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.

Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.

that is the truest thing you have stated.

As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.

These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?

EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.

These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.

The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.

I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.

Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.

They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.

No, they are not mainstream, nor do they model what the Body of Christ looks like in the world.

They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?

Unless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.

Congratulations.

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?

They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know? As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.

Longevity has no bearing on truth. I do not believe it has existed for 2000 years. They like to say that because that is where their pride comes from, but their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!

As for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also? No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on. It's all about God and what He has done!

QuoteUnless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.

I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.

I am sorry that you support the deception.

Lively,

A lot of assertions, Lively.  And not a shred of evidence again to support any of them.  What I see are pure rationalizations to minimalize everthing, and at best put everything on the same level as your personal interpretation.

Now, lets look at the facts.

QuoteThey may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know? As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.

ON what do you base the fact that the Church Christ founded at Pentacost is not mainstream Christianity?  Can you show any evidence, either theologically, scripturally, historically that the Church currently located in Jeruselem is not the continued existance of the Church the Apostles first established with James as the first Bishop?  There is plenty of evidence available for you to check on the web show you are absolutely false in your statement.

QuoteAre you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?

by the definition of scripture I know that every single member of the EO is a "born again believer". They have all been baptised into the Body of Christ as the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to initiate with Pentacost and has done so every since.

QuoteAs in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion,

This religion is based on Christ. He is the Head of His Body,  His Church, He founded with the Apostles at Pentacost.

QuoteHowever, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.

I would hope and pray that all were bound up within the confines of Christ's Body, but low, contrary to your false doctrine of OSAS, many have left, many have taken their salvation for granted.  I would hope they do not leave Christ, freedom comes in knowing Christ as He revealed Himself to us. 

QuoteLongevity has no bearing on truth.

It does when it matters.  It because that Gospel of Christ once given Jude 3, has never changed, is the authentic witness of the Holy Spirit in time.  It is why any Christian should be able to disern false teaching within a few sentences because he will recognize it as never having been from the beginning.  The Holy spirit has made sure, with Christ as Head of His Church, that man has not ever imposed His own will or interpretation upon the ONCE give Gospel of Christ. 

QuoteI do not believe it has existed for 2000 years

all you need to do is go to the website of the Patriarch of Jeruselem and you will have a list of every bishop from James to the current one.  Or you can go to the Patriarch of Antioch and see another list from the first to the present.  Some of the Church buildings, namely the Church of the Holy Sephlechur in Jeruselem is in only its fourth ediface since 33AD.

It might help, Lively, that you actually check Church history and learn something.

QuoteThey like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,

facts of history have nothing to do with pride.

Quotebut their doctrine is faulty,

And just how would you even know what their theology might be, since you have never checked it. You are under the false impression Christianity never existed. Probably not until you were born and then handed a Bible.

So at this point your statement is a categorical lie unless you can show which doctrine is false, and why it might be false.

QuoteAs for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also? No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on. It's all about God and what He has done!

rationalizing away history does not change history.  It makes you look very uninformed and misguided on a lot of facts.  Yet, you make these unfounded assertions. 

By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation.  It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down.  That Bible you  hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body.  God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT.  It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit.  He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body.

QuoteI suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived.

You have been deceived by someone, something, if you think Christianity never existed outside of your personal interpretation.

QuoteThere are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.

Well Lively, how about putting some facts behind your so far unfounded assertion.  I'll even make it easy for you. List only one and give evidence that it is actually a false (doctrine) teaching of scripture.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri May 10, 2013 - 16:28:29

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?

They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?

How do you know they aren't?

QuoteAs in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.

I suspect you are confusing freedom with your preferences.

QuoteLongevity has no bearing on truth.

It doesn't disqualify it either.

QuoteI do not believe it has existed for 2000 years.

You don't believe the EO have existed for 2000 years? Where do you suppose they came from? Do you have a history book that says they showed up in 1500?

QuoteThey like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,

They say that because it's true.

Quotebut their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!

And your lie has only existed since the 1500s. Your lie is just newer.

QuoteAs for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also?

This is a red herring

QuoteNo, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on.

To be used by God to perpetuate His word in the world, is quite an honor. You do yourself nor your God any honor by dissing the servants he has selected.

QuoteIt's all about God and what He has done!

which makes me wonder why you denigrate what he has done just because you can't understand it.

Unless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.

QuoteI suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.

I am sorry that you support the deception.

You've drunk too much of your own Koolaid.

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 22:52:47

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri May 10, 2013 - 16:28:29

Quote from: HRoberson on Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?

They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?

How do you know they aren't?

They aren't mainstream because they oppose the truth about salvation, and from what Thaddaeus says, the EO is the one true church, and that argument doesn't hold water. To him and others like him the EO speaks and what the EO says is the truth. The word of God is our authority, and not the Church. The Church of Jesus Christ, of which all believers are a part, has been given that authority---the word of God.

What he says is the mere prideful opinion of his religion and doesn't square with God's word---anywhere.

Mainstream Christianity holds to the true gospel of Jesus Christ, unadulterated by the Universalist-tinged gospel of the EO.

Quote

QuoteAs in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.

I suspect you are confusing freedom with your preferences.

Actually, no. There is a freedom we can have in Jesus Christ that religion denies people. Once people have a true encounter with they living Jesus, they usually break out of the pious hold of religion, which includes their membership in the EO, RCC, LDS, JW, Islam, Baha'i, and any other false religion.

Quote

QuoteLongevity has no bearing on truth.

It doesn't disqualify it either.

That's for sure, but it is rather pathetic to claim to be part of a religion that claims to be from the time of Jesus. It isn't.

Quote

QuoteI do not believe it has existed for 2000 years.

You don't believe the EO have existed for 2000 years? Where do you suppose they came from? Do you have a history book that says they showed up in 1500?

It came from the minds of men who desire religion rather than the freedom they could have had in Christ, just like the very first churches that are described in all of scripture. You'd think that if this religion had been used of God to produce the scriptures we have today, they would have read and learned from them.

Quote

QuoteThey like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,

They say that because it's true.

So, you are EO, too?

No, they have a pride that is invested in something meaningless.

Quote

Quotebut their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!

And your lie has only existed since the 1500s. Your lie is just newer.

I believe what the word of God says about anything. There are no lies in God. You cannot accuse me of believing anything that is a lie.

Quote

QuoteAs for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also?

This is a red herring

I made a good point.

Quote

QuoteNo, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on.

To be used by God to perpetuate His word in the world, is quite an honor. You do yourself nor your God any honor by dissing the servants he has selected.

Sure it is an honour, but it is God's to bestow and only on individuals, and not a group, lest it become a point of pride---which I see it has. I don;t diss particular people he has used, but I do diss a religion for grabbing what isn't theirs.

Quote

QuoteIt's all about God and what He has done!

which makes me wonder why you denigrate what he has done just because you can't understand it.

It's all about what God does, and not anything that man has done. He is the one who has done what is impossible for men! He gets all the praise! Do you understand that? When men or their religion receives praise for something god has done, I know there is something rotten in Denmark.

Quote from: HR

Quote from: Lively Stone

Quote from: HRUnless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.

I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.

I am sorry that you support the deception.

You've drunk too much of your own Koolaid.

That kind of remark comes from a spirit other than a godly one. No love, only venom---right from the pit. You have nothing to say but sniveling nonsense. The only thing I drink in is the truth of God's word, and have large helpings of His Living Water! Praise God.

John 4:14
But whoever takes a drink of the water that I will give him shall never, no never, be thirsty any more. But the water that I will give him shall become a spring of water welling up (flowing, bubbling) [continually] within him unto (into, for) eternal life.

John 6:35
Jesus replied, I am the Bread of Life. He who comes to Me will never be hungry, and he who believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me will never thirst any more (at any time).

Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 05:57:30 PM » Insert Quote


Thaddaeus said to LS:  

"By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation.  It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down.  That Bible you  hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body.  God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT.  It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit.  He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body."

LS~Thank you for standing in the gap and making up the hedge against two modern day Pharisees.  I say that base upon the words of Jesus Christ~who warned us in Matthew 15 and Mark 7, how the Pharisees lay aside the commandments of God, for their own man made doctrines;  which our blessed Lord Jesus called the tradition of men, which we are commanded to reject. 

Listen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."

Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets.  There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ.  Beware and take heed!

I will give some scriptures, but, first lets read more of what he said: A. "And only part of it was written."  By these words, he is saying that we do not have the complete words of God that he spoke and intended for us to have.  How can any man say that we have only part of the words spoken by God?  What part was left off Dr. Caiaphas?

B.  "The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY"~ Now Dr. Caiaphas wants bible believers to believe that the written word of God, contains ONLY SOME OF GOD REVALATION~and the rest comes from mouths of the Eastern Orthodox's ministers!  And, actually their words are above the written words of God Almighty! Any person who believes such a lie, are under a strong delusion of the devil.

C.    "He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations." Where does one start when refuting such bold words against the word of God?  There is so much, that could be said against these words of Dr. Caiaphas.  We will be adding more later as we ponder these corrupt words. 

Peter said these words: 2 Peter 1:19~"We have a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that sinneth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"

Peter said that the godly have a more sure word of prophecy, and he was not speaking about some words of vain men who may be speaking a vision from their own deceitful hearts!  He is speaking of the written word of God! Lets read more of Peter's words:

2 Peter1:20

"Knowing this first, that no SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation."

What was Peter exalting, man's private words, or the holy scriptures? Let every godly person judge for themselves.  Again, Peter said:

2 Peter 1:21

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."  And the only way that they spake  was through writing scriptures in a letter to the people.  God in his infinite wisdom decided which ones were to be part of the Holy scriptures sent down from heaven for us. 

Jesus said to the Jews of his day: search the scriptures~John 5:39 the words of God to us were giving in written words, which every child of God has exalted to be God's revelation from heaven, and only revelation that saints put their faith in.

It is by the holy scriptures that we test every man's words to see if God is speaking through him or not.  The holy scriptures alone are able to make us wise unto salvation~and this salvation is a practical salvation, one of which, is a salvation from false prophets, who are always speaking a vision of their own corrupt spirit, that the scriptures will not support.

2 Timothy 3:16

"All SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  That the man of God amy be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

This is a powerful verse.  The scriptures ARE profitable for everything that will ever come up in our walk with God.  The man of God is a collective noun, meaning all of God's people! Just like when we say: the "man of war"~it means all men who go to war;  the "man of sin", are all men who live under the power of sin, etc.

The written words of God, called the scriptures, where given by God, that every saint would be thoughly furnished unto all good works.   We reject any other voice, if that voice does not speak according to the written words of God.

Isaiah 8:20

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. "  Beware of adding to what is written!

Revelation 21:18,19

"For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things written in this book."

The word of God is one co-hesive whole, and what is written in Revelation 21:18,19 is referring to complete word of God, from Genesis to Revelation.  No child of God should ever allow any man, who through he pride of his heart, speak outside of what is written, and what is written is all that God intends for us to have and know.  I can say more, but must stop for now.

RB

Re: Eastern Orthodox and some of their beliefs.
« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 09:28:03 AM

I will answer this post later, because I want to take my time and answer it with the word of truth.  I will not do you a service by quickly answering it with a one liner or two.  RB

Red Baker,

Quote"By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation.  It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down.  That Bible you  hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body.  God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT.  It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit.  He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body."

My statement.....

LS~Thank you for standing in the gap and making up the hedge against two modern day Pharisees.  I say that base upon the words of Jesus Christ~who warned us in Matthew 15 and Mark 7, how the Pharisees lay aside the commandments of God, for their own man made doctrines;  which our blessed Lord Jesus called the tradition of men, which we are commanded to reject.

What man made doctrines are you accusing the Apostles of creating?  I can see how confused you have become regarding the historical record borne out by scripture.

QuoteListen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."

Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets.  There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ.  Beware and take heed!

I guess if we believe most confused people like yourself, who assumes that the Bible was created by God and dropped into Luther's lap in 1500 could be excused for such an uniformed statement.

QuoteListen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."

Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets.  There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ.  Beware and take heed!

You are seemingly the one here with no credibility and making unfounded statements.

When Paul visited Corinth, for example,  he did not twittle his thumbs  for three years, then leave, and then wrote down a text to send to them.  You need to get your head out the sand and study a little history of where the Bible you use actually comes from.  It did not arrive in 1500. 

By the way, you are actually ascribing the work of the Holy Spirit as that of Satan which is blasphemy.  In ignorance of how we got the Bible you are castigating the very Body (and the Holy Spirit) that made it possible for you to have a Bible. 

QuoteB.  "The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY"~ Now Dr. Caiaphas wants bible believers to believe that the written word of God, contains ONLY SOME OF GOD REVALATION~and the rest comes from mouths of the Eastern Orthodox's ministers!  And, actually their words are above the written words of God Almighty! Any person who believes such a lie, are under a strong delusion of the devil.

such misinformation. I would be embarassed to say some of this nonsense. 

Apparently you think the Bible arrived in 1500 and the Apostles were actually a myth, even though scripture mentions them, the teaching is from the Apostles. They preached, taught, set up the Churches long before anything was ever written.  Get you head out of your sandbox and make informed statements.

QuoteC.    "He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations." Where does one start when refuting such bold words against the word of God?  There is so much, that could be said against these words of Dr. Caiaphas.  We will be adding more later as we ponder these corrupt words. 

Like another dose of your ignorance as above?

Quote2 Peter1:20

"Knowing this first, that no SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation."

this is being directed squarely at you.

the rest of your post is just quoting scripture as if it is making your point.  It is actually testifying against your ignorance with uninformed statements above.

God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!

Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!

Quote from: LightHammer on Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!

No amount of 'holy water' can put it out...

Quote from: LightHammer on Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!

This is what the (alleged) false protestant reformation brought to the table, the fire of God. These man made churches have more fire than the so called One true churches, lol. You'r educated theologians try their best to persuade the people with their long drawn out books, that their, is the one true church. Meanwhile God has left the building and left them arguing for centuries, while He the master builder is doing his work amongst the people, the poor and the uneducated fools, that the modern Pharisse leaders despise, but God took the foolish things of the world to confound the wisdom of the wise.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat May 11, 2013 - 18:29:50

Quote from: LightHammer on Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!

No amount of 'holy water' can put it out...

How about answering your  unfounded statements in post" 46 and my response to them in post 47.

Quote from: FireSword on Sat May 11, 2013 - 21:36:57

Quote from: LightHammer on Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!

This is what the (alleged) false protestant reformation brought to the table, the fire of God. These man made churches have more fire than the so called One true churches, lol. You'r educated theologians try their best to persuade the people with their long drawn out books, that their, is the one true church. Meanwhile God has left the building and left them arguing for centuries, while He the master builder is doing his work amongst the people, the poor and the uneducated fools, that the modern Pharisse leaders despise, but God took the foolish things of the world to confound the wisdom of the wise.

Well said FireSword!  Great wisdom!

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat May 11, 2013 - 08:55:35
God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!

He is indeed gracious ABOVE ALL!

Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 07:46:42 AM » Insert Quote


Thaddaeus asked: "What man made doctrines are you accusing the Apostles of creating?"

You would make a better politician, than a defender of truth.  You are putting a spin on the subject itself, not just on certain words.  It is men like you, who boldly proclaims  that men like you can speak outside of what God has written, and those words are equal, or have even more authoritative power/right than the written word of God.   This is what we are speaking against.  Just because you are so blinded believing that your religion is the one that came from the apostles, and speaking against men like you, is considered by you, as though we are speaking against the apostles.   Nice try, but you are showing just how deceived you are.  We test every man, not by his affiliation with this sect, or that sect,  this religion, with that religion, but we test/try every man, including our self with the written word of God.  You are no where even close to what the apostles taught as the true gospel, not even close.

Thaddaeus said: "who assumes that the Bible was created by God and dropped into Luther's lap in 1500 could be excused for such an uniformed statement."

Well, we do believe that the scriptures were given by God, to his children through holy men of old.  And we know just what they believe, by reading the scriptures, and by that, we judge this man, or that woman, worthy to be called a brother, or a sister.  We do not trust in a religion, sect, name, but in word of God alone! Names mean nothing, if the doctrine does not line up with the written word of God.  There are churches of God, there churches of Christ; there latter day church of Jesus Christ, and there are Christians churches, all have names close to the scriptures, but means nothing, if the true gospel of Jesus Christ is not taught.  The bible did not fall into Luther's lap~the truth came into his heart with power of the Holy Ghost.   Does this mean that I accept everything that he believed in? No, but overall, he believed and fear God, and left the whore behind.  He did bring some of the dirty bed sheets out with him!

Thaddaeus said:   " In ignorance of how we got the Bible you are castigating the very Body (and the Holy Spirit) that made it possible for you to have a Bible."

"In ignorance"~well, we all have a certain amount of it.  I do know what the scriptures say in 2 Peter 1, on which I have already commented on.  What no man knows is how God preserved his word from Moses to John;  and how certain books where determined to be part of his written preserved word of God, and others were not.    BY FAITH we trust in God that by his power alone he moved certain men to know what was the inspired word of God, and what was not inspired.

Ephesians 4:16

"And when this epistle is read among you, (which is inspired by the Holy Ghost) cause it to be read also in the church of the Ladodiceans;  and that ye likewise read the epistle from the Laodicea.  Which was NOT inspired by the Holy Ghost!  All saints by faith trust our God that what we have, we have all of the inspired Holy Ghost words from heaven and we reject any man who may tell us that this or that is from heaven, if we cannot find it in the holy scriptures. 

Enough said.  If you would use scriptures then I would debates your position base off of the scriptures that you use, but since you do not, then, what is it to debate with men like you?  Not much.

RB
 

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun May 12, 2013 - 05:07:28

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat May 11, 2013 - 08:55:35
God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!

He is indeed gracious ABOVE ALL!

I checked his eye when I woke up this morning and it's not stuck together today. He only had it for 24 hours! It lasted for a few days with my other child. Even my husband told me not to lie to them about why I am not going but I didn't know how to say it without offending them. God answered them for me!

Red Baker,

QuoteYou would make a better politician, than a defender of truth.  You are putting a spin on the subject itself, not just on certain words.  It is men like you, who boldly proclaims  that men like you can speak outside of what God has written, and those words are equal, or have even more authoritative power/right than the written word of God.   This is what we are speaking against.  Just because you are so blinded believing that your religion is the one that came from the apostles, and speaking against men like you, is considered by you, as though we are speaking against the apostles.   Nice try, but you are showing just how deceived you are.  We test every man, not by his affiliation with this sect, or that sect,  this religion, with that religion, but we test/try every man, including our self with the written word of God.  You are no where even close to what the apostles taught as the true gospel, not even close.

The first thing a false teacher must proclaim is that there is no Truth. It becomes mandatory to minimalize, generalize the True gospel so that they can better elevate their own personal philosophy, even though it may use scripture to create their own faith.

The rest of what you state above is just elevating the importance of your view above  every other man who desires to do the very same thing you are doing. This is why we can add Red Bakerism to that of Eddyism, or Russellism, or Calvinism or Lutheranism and many, many more.  They all have one thing in common. They are all sola scripturists who have proclaimed their man made interpretation as infallible.

QuoteWell, we do believe that the scriptures were given by God, to his children through holy men of old.  And we know just what they believe, by reading the scriptures, and by that, we judge this man, or that woman, worthy to be called a brother, or a sister.

It has been 500 years already and no man has yet come up with the exact same belief as the Apostles proclaimed in the beginning.  They seem to go out of their way to avoid coming to the same faith as was delievered to the Saints, once, in the beginning.

QuoteWe do not trust in a religion, sect, name, but in word of God alone!

the only thing all sola scripturists have in common is their abuse of scripture. Again, it is why they have generated thousands of denominations all based on the Word of God alone.  the same as you are now proclaiming. We can add one more to the thousands. You will not be the last one unfortunately.

Quoteif the doctrine does not line up with the written word of God. 

but the doctrine is always according to the person interpreting this Word of God. Again, thousands of gospels, thousands of Christs, thousands of ways to be saved, all according to some man, never according to how it was understood from the beginning.

QuoteAll saints by faith trust our God that what we have, we have all of the inspired Holy Ghost words from heaven and we reject any man who may tell us that this or that is from heaven, if we cannot find it in the holy scriptures. 

I guess several thousands have so felt but it seems that same Word has generated thousands of meanings.  I can guarantee you that NONE of them were of the Holy Spirit, since He is not of confusion, chaos, and disunity.  He promised that His Gospel would be united as He is with the Father.
Somehow you missed that unified Gospel, and feel the need to abuse the scriptures by developing your own version and adding to the choas.  You are essentially making scripture null and void.

QuoteEnough said.  If you would use scriptures then I would debates your position base off of the scriptures that you use, but since you do not, then, what is it to debate with men like you?  Not much.

You have said nothing that pertains to scripture.  All you have done is degnegrated the work of the Holy Spirit.  You have declared Christ dead, and no longer the Head of any Church, or that the Holy Spirit no longer leads to His gospel. 

YOu are the one who started the OP.  You stated some of the Orthodox beliefs but never stated  a single false teaching as yet and supported it with scripture or the history of the Church.

YOu have spent all of your words proclaiming what your interpretation of scripture might be which obviously is not Orthodoxy, or the Gospel of Christ as He gave it in the beginning.

Why not stick to your OP.  You have gone down a rabbit hole.

Wow!  We're not used to such fire in the EO forum but it is welcome (well, most of it anyway).  Thanks to Thaddeus and especially HRobertson who is not Orthodox. 

Little to add but can't resist posting something . . .

Some of us have converted to Orthodoxy.  In my church, at least 30 percent are converts and our clergy in the entire Orthodox church is probably majority convert.  The strange thing is that
many of us have come after a long search. 

Are there jerks in our church? yes.  Guess what, there are some in your church too.  The parable of the wheat and the tares shows jerks will infiltrate even the church.

One of my big pet peeves is when people reject us solely because we believe that our church is the one true church.   I get the  initial first reaction, but, really, most of Christian history is a struggle about which church is the true one.   As for me, I am much happier to be guided by the church that has hundreds of saints who make our struggles seem like small potatoes than to figure out which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one.  The Bible itself says the truth is be found in the church (I Tim 3:15).  Once we find that church, we no longer thirst.

Quote from: trifecta on Sun May 12, 2013 - 15:54:17
One of my big pet peeves is when people reject us solely because we believe that our church is the one true church.   I get the  initial first reaction, but, really, most of Christian history is a struggle about which church is the true one.   As for me, I am much happier to be guided by the church that has hundreds of saints who make our struggles seem like small potatoes than to figure out which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one.  The Bible itself says the truth is be found in the church (I Tim 3:15).  Once we find that church, we no longer thirst.

The true Church is the Body of Christ. As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member. It is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.

Ephesians 1:23
And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun May 12, 2013 - 16:30:28


The true Church is the Body of Christ.


As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member.

Where is this written?   Church, at its basic definition, is a gathering.  How is agreeing to a belief a gathering?

Quote

It is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.

Church is organization.  It has people in roles (Eph 4:11), an authority structure (I Tim 3), and structure.  That is organization.  Admittedly, church is more than organization, but it is an aspect of it.

Your description of the church, which no one proposed for 1500 years, might more properly defined as those written in the Book of Life, but that is not the same thing.  The church is the bride of Christ.

Quote from: trifecta on Mon May 13, 2013 - 18:03:20

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun May 12, 2013 - 16:30:28


The true Church is the Body of Christ.


As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member.

Where is this written?   Church, at its basic definition, is a gathering.  How is agreeing to a belief a gathering?

Where in God's word do you get that?

The Church is the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the CALLED OUT ONES (ekklesia).

1 Corinthians 12:27
All of you together are Christ's body, and each of you is a part of it.

Ephesians 4:11-12
Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.

Ephesians 5:23
For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church.

Colossians 1:18
Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. I promised you as a pure bride to one husband—Christ.

Ephesians 5:25
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

Quote

Quote from: Lively StoneIt is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.

Church is organization.  It has people in roles (Eph 4:11), an authority structure (I Tim 3), and structure.  That is organization.  Admittedly, church is more than organization, but it is an aspect of it.

Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading.

QuoteYour description of the church, which no one proposed for 1500 years, might more properly defined as those written in the Book of Life, but that is not the same thing.  The church is the bride of Christ.

What are you on about? My description of church comes directly from scripture---and it is 2000 years old. Those whose names are written in that Book of Life ARE part of the Church. My name is there and I am a member of the Body of Christ, the Bride.

This is incorrect:

"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."

and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:

"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."

and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.

I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Tue May 14, 2013 - 01:13:55

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:

"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."

and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.

I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.

You said there was no earthly church authority. That is incorrect.