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Paul's Gospel was KEPT SECRET:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul's Gospel was HIDDEN:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Paul's Gospel was NOT MADE KNOWN:

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Paul's Gospel for today was HID IN GOD:

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Paul's Gospel was A MYSTERY:

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Paul's Gospel was UNSEARCHABLE:

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Yes, the Apostle Paul has both a unique ministry from all the other Aposltes....and most certainly a unique message...different from that of the others. It was not until Jesus Christ appeared to Paul and gave him this special and unique ministry and message that we were ever told to "rightly divide the word of truth." BUT NOW it is an absolute necessity in order to avoid the religious trap of comprimise and confusion which is the lot of most of religion today.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was KEPT SECRET:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Hi eph3nine, you should have kept reading lol. Paul's gospel wasn't kept secret. The mystery that was kept secret since the world began was that of salvation through Christ and not through obedience of the law. God declares in verse 26 that the mystery is made known to all nations. The books written by Paul reveal the mystery.

Rom 16:25  Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26  But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Yes, you are correct EDEN2004. The mystery from God was kept secret by God and revealed through Paul and the other Apostles and prophets.

After the cross, Peter was still preaching salvation by keeping the law.  He did not know what Paul would receive.  He told Cornelius, it was unlawful for him to be at his house.  Twelve years later, when Paul came back to Jerusalem, they still were not preaching to the Gentiles.  In 2cd Peter 3:14-16 he had learned it.  He made the statement:  Some, that don't understand Paul's gospel wrestle with it to their own destruction.  At some point, the Bible does not say, he had to come to understand it.  Today we better understand it too.  Paul said, if you don't believe his gospel you will be lost.  His gospel is salvation by grace, through faith alone..

Quote from: jetson on Sun Oct 20, 2013 - 21:09:45
After the cross, Peter was still preaching salvation by keeping the law.  He did not know what Paul would receive.  He told Cornelius, it was unlawful for him to be at his house.  Twelve years later, when Paul came back to Jerusalem, they still were not preaching to the Gentiles.  In 2cd Peter 3:14-16 he had learned it.  He made the statement:  Some, that don't understand Paul's gospel wrestle with it to their own destruction.  At some point, the Bible does not say, he had to come to understand it.  Today we better understand it too.  Paul said, if you don't believe his gospel you will be lost.  His gospel is salvation by grace, through faith alone..

Do you know how many years passed after Paul was called by Christ and he began his missionary journeys?

Gal 2:1  Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.
Gal 2:2  I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.

The disciples were told to take the Gospel first to the Jew and then to the Greek.  Do you realize that the Jews had begun synagogue worship long before Christ came and there was a synagogue in most major cities?  The Gospel was preached in these synagogues.   The Gospel was not put on ice for 14 to 17 years until Paul began his missionary journeys.   The early church was Jewish and their natural inclination was to take the Gospel first to the Jews.   This early church held on to Judaism and the Torah - which is why Paul later referred to them as the "circumcision" - and it took many years for the church to transition away from Judaism.   The Catholics came along and made sure that the church stayed entrenched in ritualism. 

I hope you will use caution in your acceptance of dispensational teachings.  Dispensationals believe that the Law is going to be reinstituted, along with animal sacrifices, during a millennial kingdom.   God progressively revealed Himself to the Jews/Israel and the ultimate revelation was Christ.   Even today the church reject what we are taught in the Book of Hebrews that Christ is better.  He is the Mediator of a better covenant and has made the old one obsolete.   

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was KEPT SECRET:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

In verse 26 Paul explained that the things that had been "kept secret since the world began" were now made manifest through the writings of the prophets, which were interpreted in new ways by the apostles.

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" [Rom 16:25-26]

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was HIDDEN:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

In verse 2 Paul says "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." This message was not unique to Paul, but was taught by Peter and all the other apostles, for example at Pentecost. (See Acts 2.)

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." [1 Cor. 2:7-8]

Of course the Gospel of our salvation through Christ's death was a mystery before Jesus was crucified. Paul taught it, and so did all the other apostles.

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was NOT MADE KNOWN:

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

What was it that was "not made known" in other ages? Paul explains in the next verse: "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs."

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

This was first revealed to Peter, to whom Jesus had promised to give the keys of the kingdom. (See Acts 10:34-43.) Paul must have learned it from Peter and the other apostles and saints, as well as from the writings of the prophets of the OT, which he understood and interpreted by the holy Spirit. Paul tells us he consulted with Peter and the other apostles to make sure his gospel conformed to their understanding. [Gal. 2:1-2] The truth that Gentiles who believe are fellowheirs with believing Israelites was not a special revelation to Paul at all.

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel for today was HID IN GOD:

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

The following verses say:

"To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:" [Eph. 3:10-11]

It was not Paul only who received revelations, but other apostles such as John and Peter, who endorsed Paul's teachings.

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was A MYSTERY:

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The same can be said of the gospel Jesus preached. See Matt. 4:12-17, where the Gospel Jesus preached is called "a great light." And Paul also said that Jesus "hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."

"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles." [2 Tim. 1:8-11]

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Paul's Gospel was UNSEARCHABLE:

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Paul had unique opportunities to preach the Gospel. His teachings and writings included things that he learned from the other apostles, and from the prophets, and from the sayings of Jesus, and from the holy Spirit.

Quote from: eph3nine on Sat Jun 22, 2013 - 12:47:22

Yes, the Apostle Paul has both a unique ministry from all the other Aposltes....and most certainly a unique message...different from that of the others. It was not until Jesus Christ appeared to Paul and gave him this special and unique ministry and message that we were ever told to "rightly divide the word of truth." BUT NOW it is an absolute necessity in order to avoid the religious trap of comprimise and confusion which is the lot of most of religion today.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

Paul warned his readers to beware of those who cause divisions. An attempt to separate Paul's doctrine from that of the other apostles was the ancient heresy of Marcionism, followers of Marcion of Sinope (c.85 - c.160). Aspects of his teachings were revived by nineteenth century Protestant German critic F. C. von Baur, founder and leader of the Tübingen School of theology. Similar doctrines have tainted various groups and movements such as hyper- and ultradispensationism.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." [Rom. 16:17]

I am a little confused by this debate.

Both Peter and Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  THAT is the Gospel.   Where is the debate?

quote Bondservant: I am a little confused by this debate.

Both Peter and Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  THAT is the Gospel.   Where is the debate?

________

Me too and Amen!

Quote from: BondServant on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:21:19
I am a little confused by this debate.

Both Peter and Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  THAT is the Gospel.   Where is the debate?

That is an over-simplification of the gospel.  In Galatians Paul says he himself had the "gospel to/for/of the uncircumcised" while Peter and the rest of the Apostles had the  "gospel to/for/of the circumcised."

This was in the wake of the First Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts 15.  The decision to NOT require Torah observance for Gentiles was not extended to Jews. That is made clear in Acts 21.17-26.

Continued Torah observance (but in a New Covenant way) for Jewish believers is the main difference between the 2 sides of the Gospel.

Not 2 gospels but differing provisions and requirements for different people groups.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:28:25
That is an over-simplification of the gospel.

I'm a simple man.  If the Gospel is going to be based on how much we understand God, then I'm not going to make it.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:28:25
This was in the wake of the First Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts 15.  The decision to NOT require Torah observance for Gentiles was not extended to Jews. That is made clear in Acts 21.17-26.

Continued Torah observance (but in a New Covenant way) for Jewish believers is the main difference between the 2 sides of the Gospel.

Umm, following the Torah has nothing to do with the Gospel.  THAT is what the Jerusalem Council Decided.  There is only one Gospel and one side to that Gospel.   Adding anything ventures into legalism territory.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:28:25
In Galatians Paul says he himself had the "gospel to/for/of the uncircumcised" while Peter and the rest of the Apostles had the  "gospel to/for/of the circumcised."

I never said they had the same audience, just that they preached the same Gospel.

Quote from: BondServant on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:42:24
Umm, following the Torah has nothing to do with the Gospel.  THAT is what the Jerusalem Council Decided. 

Actually, read closely.  That applied ONLY to gentiles.

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Nothing said about Jews.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 11:53:21
Actually, read closely.  That applied ONLY to gentiles.

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Nothing said about Jews.

Why did you leave off the verses that show what Peter said?

Let's read it closely together:

7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

One Gospel.  Same Gospel for the Jews as it is for the Gentiles.

Period.

I'm sorry, but there are not two different Gospels, two different requirements, two different provisions, two different what ever you want to call it.

By Peter's own words (v 11), the Gospel is EXACTLY the same.  The Jews do not need to follow the Torah to be saved.  You will never convince me otherwise, and I pray you never convince anyone else, either.

Amen, Bondservant.

I do not disagree with what Peter said.  But listen to what JAMES said in Acts 21:

18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

Quote from: BondServant on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:21:19
I am a little confused by this debate.

Both Peter and Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  THAT is the Gospel.   Where is the debate?

This debate is rooted in Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.  Key to this system of belief is that the church was the mystery revealed ONLY to the Apostle Paul.   Paul was given the task of taking the Gospel to the Gentiles and Peter was assigned the task of taking the Gospel to the Jews.   The Jews will stay on the Earth to receive Israel's earthly blessings.  The Church will be raptured into Heaven to receive heavenly blessings.   Once raptured the Church will never return to the Earth.  God has two separate people who will remain in separate locations.   

Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ.  This age is the Church Age, according to Mid-Acts, and the New Covenant will not begin until Christ rules over Israel during the millennium.   

Didn't you know all that?   :-)

"Was Paul's gospel the same as Peter's?" Yes. There is only one true gospel.

19th Century Dispensationalism is another gospel.

As for Paul: Galations 1:  "... I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse!

... "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24 And they praised God because of me.

Quote from: Shodan on Tue Oct 29, 2013 - 21:22:58
"Was Paul's gospel the same as Peter's?" Yes. There is only one true gospel.

19th Century Dispensationalism is another gospel.

As for Paul: Galations 1:  "... I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse!

... "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24 And they praised God because of me.

I agree with you.   The one who began this thread is a Mid-Acts Dispensational and would say that "the one we preached" is the Gospel for the Gentiles and Peter was called to preach to the Jews.   They further say that Gentiles will have a heavenly destination and the Jews/Israel are destined to remain on the Earth.

Go to. Follow Peter and Paul, and the gospels you will make of them. I will follow the gospel of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The gospel of His kingdom, and none other.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13 (KJV)

Whatever you believe Paul or Peter taught, it better be in line with what Christ taught, or you believe a false gospel.

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Oct 23, 2013 - 10:25:54
quote Bondservant: I am a little confused by this debate.

Both Peter and Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  THAT is the Gospel.   Where is the debate?

________

Me too and Amen!

I have to agree, Peter mentioned Paul's letters and Paul had corrected Peter on a issue. That means all that Paul wrote and all that Peter wrote are of importance and part of the eternal Word of God. Satan is the author of confusion and Satan would love to add a bunch of terms that man made up to make us Categorize God's perfect Word to us even further. We have already Broken up the Word from OT to NT and we have added Chapters and verses for references.

If one assumes that all of the Word is by the Holy Spirit, then there would be no reason to continue putting parts in sub categories.  What God promised to the Jewish people came through Abraham by which we are the same seed as Abraham.

I fully believe God has a plan to help the Nation of Israel despite their lack of faith In Jesus which separates us as believers, but we all going to be at the same place when the smoke clears. We already have divisions by the different denominations, I see no reason to further complicate the Word of God also.

If it's not simple, it has to be the one that is the author of confusion.

Be blessed everyone.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Oct 30, 2013 - 04:48:01
Go to. Follow Peter and Paul, and the gospels you will make of them. I will follow the gospel of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The gospel of His kingdom, and none other.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13 (KJV)

Whatever you believe Paul or Peter taught, it better be in line with what Christ taught, or you believe a false gospel.

This is certainly something to bear in mind.....
it is not Peter or Paul that will get us into the Kingdom but JESUS CHRIST only !
Non of their teachings is as 'straight-foreward as that of our SAVIOUR !

Quote from: Beta on Wed Nov 27, 2013 - 02:46:13

Quote from: Amo on Wed Oct 30, 2013 - 04:48:01
Go to. Follow Peter and Paul, and the gospels you will make of them. I will follow the gospel of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The gospel of His kingdom, and none other.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13 (KJV)

Whatever you believe Paul or Peter taught, it better be in line with what Christ taught, or you believe a false gospel.

This is certainly something to bear in mind.....
it is not Peter or Paul that will get us into the Kingdom but JESUS CHRIST only !
Non of their teachings is as 'straight-foreward as that of our SAVIOUR !

Dear Beta,

Dear soul, Yes Jesus is the greatest of all, nevertheless, Peter and Paul writings that are recorded for us are just as straight forward and truthful as anything our Lord ever said or done!

And "their gospel" concerning free justification by the grace of God are all one and the very same~ even though, the gospel has different parts concerning its overall truths.

Beta, I know that you love God and his word~have a wonderful thanksgiving in praise and worship of our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Red Baker

We can see that from the Bible have derived thousands upon thousands of denominations all believing something different... based on the Gospels written by men.
I do not question the writers TRUTHFULNESS but all men except Jesus are fallible and given to misunderstanding....as we are reminded of Paul's writings.
Christianity is anything but straight forward and unified !

Quote from: Beta on Wed Nov 27, 2013 - 23:55:03
We can see that from the Bible have derived thousands upon thousands of denominations all believing something different... based on the Gospels written by men.
I do not question the writers TRUTHFULNESS but all men except Jesus are fallible and given to misunderstanding....as we are reminded of Paul's writings.
Christianity is anything but straight forward and unified !

Yes, men are certainly fallible...but those that wrote the Word of God were not writing from their own minds or hearts, but the Holy Spirit!  We can TRUST the Word even *if* God chose to deliver it to us through fallible men. After all, we trust Jesus, though He was delivered through a fallible woman.

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Nov 28, 2013 - 09:27:23

Quote from: Beta on Wed Nov 27, 2013 - 23:55:03
We can see that from the Bible have derived thousands upon thousands of denominations all believing something different... based on the Gospels written by men.
I do not question the writers TRUTHFULNESS but all men except Jesus are fallible and given to misunderstanding....as we are reminded of Paul's writings.
Christianity is anything but straight forward and unified !

Yes, men are certainly fallible...but those that wrote the Word of God were not writing from their own minds or hearts, but the Holy Spirit!  We can TRUST the Word even *if* God chose to deliver it to us through fallible men. After all, we trust Jesus, though He was delivered through a fallible woman.

Good point MM !
but looking at it from a 'human angle is not what we should be focusing on. Being Human it is indeed our starting point but scripture reminds us to always 'aim for what is above...the spiritual.
From your post you even 'seem to imply some imperfection in Jesus having been born through a fallible woman....but I know you don't mean that.
Once the Holy Spirit comes into our life we are being cleansed of all sin and error which means we are to shed human perceptions that 'tend to hold us down/back.
We can not compare Jesus' birth with that of fallible men (not even Apostles or holy men) therefore there will always be an element of human error present in man even when given the HS.....never in the measure that JESUS had from the beginning , or they would have been 'equal to Jesus' which they were not !!!
We can trust them to have had more of the HS in Jesus personal presence than any of us today, but their teachings have not been able to bring unity and peace to mankind. That is and will always be the 'prerogative' of Jesus Christ who is our Saviour !

Let's compare, shall we?

Peter's Gospel:
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. ... ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Paul's Gospel:
Ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus' Gospel:
Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, saying 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:'

Same, same, same.

Yes I agree. The 'overall Gospel/Message is the same....the 'Headline is not the problem...IF we would stick to it !
It seems that we come adrift in 'detail....in HOW our destination is to be achieved and that is blatantly obvious in the MANY christian denominations believing different things, all based on scriptures written by men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
If we can not find agreement then somebody is at fault    and it is NOT the Holy Spirit ...it is NOT scripture !
Shall we more carefully examine those who preach to us the Gospels in detail ? It may well be too late now for false teachers have always been around. But it is never too late to 'examine ourselves where changes CAN be made !!! Phil.2v12.

Quote from: Beta on Sat Nov 30, 2013 - 23:52:06
Yes I agree. The 'overall Gospel/Message is the same....the 'Headline is not the problem...IF we would stick to it !

It seems that we come adrift in 'detail....in HOW our destination is to be achieved

It seems to me that the gospel, as presented above, has very little to do with our "destination," and a lot more to do with the journey.  "God is already here" and "God lives in us, already" seems pretty focused on the present.  Not the future.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Dec 03, 2013 - 02:59:39

Quote from: Beta on Sat Nov 30, 2013 - 23:52:06
Yes I agree. The 'overall Gospel/Message is the same....the 'Headline is not the problem...IF we would stick to it !

It seems that we come adrift in 'detail....in HOW our destination is to be achieved

It seems to me that the gospel, as presented above, has very little to do with our "destination," and a lot more to do with the journey.  "God is already here" and "God lives in us, already" seems pretty focused on the present.  Not the future.

Jarrod

I am not sure GOD the FATHER lives in any of us in a very 'recognisable measure'. We are only
begotten with a very tiny 'deposit of His Holy Spirit , a promise (Eph.1v14) until our full redemption. In the meantime JESUS has the task of putting all enemies under HIS feet 1Cor.15v24-28 and dealing with our sins, in preparation for the coming of the New Jerusalem Rev.21.
God the Father can not live with sin in the way man is still afflicted by it during our journey.

Quote from: Beta on Tue Dec 03, 2013 - 03:41:08

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Dec 03, 2013 - 02:59:39

Quote from: Beta on Sat Nov 30, 2013 - 23:52:06
Yes I agree. The 'overall Gospel/Message is the same....the 'Headline is not the problem...IF we would stick to it !

It seems that we come adrift in 'detail....in HOW our destination is to be achieved

It seems to me that the gospel, as presented above, has very little to do with our "destination," and a lot more to do with the journey.  "God is already here" and "God lives in us, already" seems pretty focused on the present.  Not the future.

Jarrod

I am not sure GOD the FATHER lives in any of us in a very 'recognisable measure'. We are only
begotten with a very tiny 'deposit of His Holy Spirit , a promise (Eph.1v14) until our full redemption. In the meantime JESUS has the task of putting all enemies under HIS feet 1Cor.15v24-28 and dealing with our sins, in preparation for the coming of the New Jerusalem Rev.21.
God the Father can not live with sin in the way man is still afflicted by it during our journey.

Well, get more sure!  At the risk of being repetitious:

"Ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, 'I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.'"

Sure looks to me like God lives in us!  Gods live in temples, do they not?

Jarrod

Quote from: Amo on Wed Oct 30, 2013 - 04:48:01
Whatever you believe Paul or Peter taught, it better be in line with what Christ taught, or you believe a false gospel.

Actually that is NOT TRUE. 

What Paul taught to the Gentiles was entirely NEW REVELATION that was not universally understood. It was given ONLY to Paul.  Apart from that understanding the words of the "Judaizers" in Acts 15.1 makes perfect sense: "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."  That someone could be part of God's People without becoming Jewish was non-sensical.  But Paul knew better by divine revelation.

So let us re-wind a few years back to Our Lord's earthly ministry. He taught ONLY to Jews. A few gentiles came to Him.  Some he ministered to, some he insulted and others he ignored.   Since His ministry was to Jews, the New Revelation given to Paul was irrelevant to His ministry.

THE GOSPEL!

               JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Dec 12, 2013 - 07:49:30

Quote from: Amo on Wed Oct 30, 2013 - 04:48:01
Whatever you believe Paul or Peter taught, it better be in line with what Christ taught, or you believe a false gospel.

Actually that is NOT TRUE. 

What Paul taught to the Gentiles was entirely NEW REVELATION that was not universally understood. It was given ONLY to Paul.  Apart from that understanding the words of the "Judaizers" in Acts 15.1 makes perfect sense: "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."  That someone could be part of God's People without becoming Jewish was non-sensical.  But Paul knew better by divine revelation.

So let us re-wind a few years back to Our Lord's earthly ministry. He taught ONLY to Jews. A few gentiles came to Him.  Some he ministered to, some he insulted and others he ignored.   Since His ministry was to Jews, the New Revelation given to Paul was irrelevant to His ministry.

Are you then saying that if the Jews would have accepted Jesus as their Messiah the cross would not have been necessary since Jesus came only to the Jew?

As you may know, Muslim's contend that Jesus' ministry was only for the Children of Israel. They too quote Matthew 15:14. One of the reasons they believe the Cross is a farce. "Jesus the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him" (Saurat-ul Maida (5):75.

To believe Paul preached another gospel "pertaining to the kingdom of God" is to slander Luke's words of Acts 1:1-3. True, Paul (a "chosen vessel") was sent to the Gentiles, but not until he had tried to persuade the Jews that God had "promised to raise unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus" (v. 23). Read again his words of Acts 13:16-41. Note it was the Gentiles who stood and listened to Paul's words as he preached to the Jews In Antioch about Jesus. It was the Gentiles who asked Paul to "preach those words to them the next Sabbath."  Paul did, and the whole city turned out to HEAR the word of God (v. 43). Which credentials Romans 10:17.
What the Jew found in God's word unworthy, the Gentile rejoiced..
Same words-same Man-same Plan.

Quote from: Tyler on Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 06:10:32
Are you then saying that if the Jews would have accepted Jesus as their Messiah the cross would not have been necessary since Jesus came only to the Jew?

I am not saying that at all. The cross would still be ABSOLUTELY necessary as the Messiah's death was for Israel first and foremost.

QuoteTo believe Paul preached another gospel "pertaining to the kingdom of God" is to slander Luke's words of Acts 1:1-3.

Not true.  It slanders nothing. There in nothing in those verses that say anything about gentiles one way or another. (or Jews specifically for that matter)

QuoteTrue, Paul (a "chosen vessel") was sent to the Gentiles, but not until he had tried to persuade the Jews that God had "promised to raise unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus" (v. 23).

Paul was a chosen vessel and sent TO THE GENTILES before he was ever a believer. Acts 9.15 Yes Paul started each city in the synagogues. But that was because he understood that the gospel was to the JEW FIRST.  (Rom 1)

QuoteRead again his words of Acts 13:16-41. Note it was the Gentiles who stood and listened to Paul's words as he preached to the Jews In Antioch about Jesus. It was the Gentiles who asked Paul to "preach those words to them the next Sabbath."  Paul did, and the whole city turned out to HEAR the word of God (v. 43).

Paul had the anointing to preach to gentiles.  Of course they will respond because when he preached, the Holy Spirit moved on the gentiles. That was God's choice.  The anointing to preach to Jews was on the other apostles.

QuoteWhich credentials Romans 10:17.

Um - that is about God speaking directly to us, NOT (necessarily) about someone preaching.

Rom 10:11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Didn't see that anyone had brought these verses up so thought I would add them to the discussion.  If they have been discussed my apologies didn't see it as I read through the thread.

 We are now all Gentiles.

Things have changed after the cross.

Our savior is Jesus Christ ! 

We can not save our self !   But we can choose to follow Gods word in our bible .....................