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Jesus was said to have started the CULT OF THE NAZAREENS, do the internet search. His enemies deemed their church system the correct right one, the established one, the politically right one, the spiritually right one because they were in that hierarchy and loved their securted position. Thes plotted against the Lord and plotted against the Lord's followerrs and called them names, and got people like Saul, to go around killing them under the guise of making the world a better place for their religion.

For even today, everyone is calling others names and one of the favorite accussations is that they are in a CULT. If that doesn;t work they call them devils, false teachers, etc etc etc etc...

But Jesus said, what is that to thee, follow thou me..... don't get involved in it. Know the truth and live the truth and win through Jesus love.

What is their doctrine to thee, follow thou the LORD.

Your righteousness does not come from having the so called right doctrine in your head, but whether or not you follow the Lord in humility and love for others as their equal.

For again, the opnly true doctrine is that we all are EQUAL, exactly the same in righteousness as none of us are righteous. None as in NONE. We`all are sinners and in need of His LOVE.

Problem solved.... forget name calling of cults, whether a few people or an established whole system.

IN My Opinion

Davidjayjordan

No group is blessed, the Lord only blesses individuals, and sometimes He takes away blessings to see if they will still love HIm. Blessings do not determine whether a group or an individual is of the Lord.

Jews are people, Muslims are people, the Lord only judges individuals and does not judge us according to bloodlines, passports or church or whatever cult we came out of or are into to. The Lord judges personnally. No cult or church or religion recieves blessings for their mere membership in any group. All musyt come to the Lord individually.

Quote from: Davidjayjordan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 - 12:21:19
Jesus was said to have started the CULT OF THE NAZAREENS, do the internet search. His enemies deemed their church system the correct right one, the established one, the politically right one, the spiritually right one because they were in that hierarchy and loved their securted position. Thes plotted against the Lord and plotted against the Lord's followerrs and called them names, and got people like Saul, to go around killing them under the guise of making the world a better place for their religion.

For even today, everyone is calling others names and one of the favorite accussations is that they are in a CULT. If that doesn;t work they call them devils, false teachers, etc etc etc etc...

But Jesus said, what is that to thee, follow thou me..... don't get involved in it. Know the truth and live the truth and win through Jesus love.

What is their doctrine to thee, follow thou the LORD.

Your righteousness does not come from having the so called right doctrine in your head, but whether or not you follow the Lord in humility and love for others as their equal.

For again, the opnly true doctrine is that we all are EQUAL, exactly the same in righteousness as none of us are righteous. None as in NONE. We`all are sinners and in need of His LOVE.

Problem solved.... forget name calling of cults, whether a few people or an established whole system.

IN My Opinion

Davidjayjordan

Hi David, I can agree with some of what you say, but not your idea of how we obtain righteousness. It is not by how well we follow Jesus but because of what HE did on the Cross.

Barley

 The original meaning of 'cult' was devotion, reverence or worship.

Then in the the early 20th century is was given a new sociological meaning.

Sociologists used the word 'church' or 'denomination' for large identifiable groups in mainstream religion.

They then used the word 'sect' for small groups that broke away from these large groupings but still keep many of the beliefs and practices of the larger group.

However this left groups that did not fit into either of these categories. Any group that wasn't a church or a sect was labelled a cult. It was a 'left-over' category.

This definition is still neutral. However (and this is my suggestion) because many of these groups appeared to have strange and destructive tendencies (think David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, or Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple), the word cult as applied to these small groups took on a negative association. The term cult, with its negative association then came to be applied by individuals and groups to other groups that they disagreed with. The word was detached from its sociological meaning and used to express negativity about another group. Cult in this type of usage could be defined as "An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree"

Personally, I think that since this usage of the term has become degraded and abused, cult should not be used except in its centuries old meaning.

Quote from: winsome on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 06:05:28
The original meaning of 'cult' was devotion, reverence or worship.

Then in the the early 20th century is was given a new sociological meaning.

Sociologists used the word 'church' or 'denomination' for large identifiable groups in mainstream religion.

They then used the word 'sect' for small groups that broke away from these large groupings but still keep many of the beliefs and practices of the larger group.

However this left groups that did not fit into either of these categories. Any group that wasn't a church or a sect was labelled a cult. It was a 'left-over' category.

This definition is still neutral. However (and this is my suggestion) because many of these groups appeared to have strange and destructive tendencies (think David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, or Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple), the word cult as applied to these small groups took on a negative association. The term cult, with its negative association then came to be applied by individuals and groups to other groups that they disagreed with. The word was detached from its sociological meaning and used to express negativity about another group. Cult in this type of usage could be defined as "An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree"

Personally, I think that since this usage of the term has become degraded and abused, cult should not be used except in its centuries old meaning.

The problem with that idea is that people today will not know what we mean by that term. So many words have had their meaning changed over time that it would be very difficult to discuss anything if we used the ancient meanings.
I think we should use the current meanings of today.
To me the meaning of the word cult is a offshoot from the original.
I see the original Church as the body of Christ with Jesus as the head.
There are many anti-Christs  that are set up as heads in their cults.
We believers in the gospel of Jesus have no one between us and the Father other than Jesus.

Barley

Quote from: Barley on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 11:48:22

Quote from: winsome on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 06:05:28
The original meaning of 'cult' was devotion, reverence or worship.

Then in the the early 20th century is was given a new sociological meaning.

Sociologists used the word 'church' or 'denomination' for large identifiable groups in mainstream religion.

They then used the word 'sect' for small groups that broke away from these large groupings but still keep many of the beliefs and practices of the larger group.

However this left groups that did not fit into either of these categories. Any group that wasn't a church or a sect was labelled a cult. It was a 'left-over' category.

This definition is still neutral. However (and this is my suggestion) because many of these groups appeared to have strange and destructive tendencies (think David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, or Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple), the word cult as applied to these small groups took on a negative association. The term cult, with its negative association then came to be applied by individuals and groups to other groups that they disagreed with. The word was detached from its sociological meaning and used to express negativity about another group. Cult in this type of usage could be defined as "An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree"

Personally, I think that since this usage of the term has become degraded and abused, cult should not be used except in its centuries old meaning.

The problem with that idea is that people today will not know what we mean by that term. So many words have had their meaning changed over time that it would be very difficult to discuss anything if we used the ancient meanings.
I think we should use the current meanings of today.
To me the meaning of the word cult is a offshoot from the original.
I see the original Church as the body of Christ with Jesus as the head.
There are many anti-Christs  that are set up as heads in their cults.
We believers in the gospel of Jesus have no one between us and the Father other than Jesus.

Barley

It's not that the meaning of the word has changed but that it had gained an additional and rather different meaning. That is one of the joys and problems of English.

The word cult is still used with its old meaning.

Archeologists will still talk about "cultic objects" - small figurines for example that have been used in worship.

I have a book, published in 1988, called Fundamentals of The Faith in which the author writes about "Creed, Code and Cult" or "Words, Works and Worship" (he likes alliteration!) by which he means:
What we believe
How we act
How we worship

TO me the word cult today means any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible.

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 13:41:50
TO me the word cult today means any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible.

It means little what the word means to you.  What matters is what it actually means.

For example, if I believed the word "cult" to mean "any person or group who believes exactly what chosenone believes", what difference would that make?  In my mind chosenone would be locked in a cult for the rest of her life.  It doesn't make it true.

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 14:20:25

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 13:41:50
TO me the word cult today means any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible.

It means little what the word means to you.  What matters is what it actually means.

For example, if I believed the word "cult" to mean "any person or group who believes exactly what chosenone believes", what difference would that make?  In my mind chosenone would be locked in a cult for the rest of her life.  It doesn't make it true.

Hey, would you please say again, in different words, what it is you are saying.
I can't follow what you are saying.  

Quote from: Barley on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 15:01:46

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 14:20:25

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 13:41:50
TO me the word cult today means any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible.

It means little what the word means to you.  What matters is what it actually means.

For example, if I believed the word "cult" to mean "any person or group who believes exactly what chosenone believes", what difference would that make?  In my mind chosenone would be locked in a cult for the rest of her life.  It doesn't make it true.

Hey, would you please say again, in different words, what it is you are saying.
I can't follow what you are saying.  

Let's take a word in the dictionary.  Let's take the word "apple".

The word "apple" means something in particular.  Namely:

Quotea round fruit with red, yellow, or green skin and firm white flesh

But let's say that some person believes that "apple" means "a food kids eat for lunch".  That person's own definition of the word "apple" doesn't change what the word "apple" means.  Not matter if they believe that "apple" means "tar from a pine tree" or "belly-button lint", for example, the word "apple" still means "a round fruit with red, yellow, or green skin and firm white flesh".

So it doesn't matter how one person defines a word.  The word still means what it is normally understood to mean.  Therefore one person saying that the word "cult" to them means "any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible" doesn't mean that that is actually what the word means.  The definition still remains the same.

Now language is malleable, and over time words can come to have different meanings from what they once had.  For example, "cult" is one such word.  In the not too distant past, cult meant "a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also :  its body of adherents ".  Modernly the word "cult" has been taken on a negative connotation.   Here is the modern usage:

"a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous"

It is not up to any person to decide for themselves what the word "cult" means.  If they do, then they are acting silly.  Like humpty dumpty.

QuoteWhen I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.

Alice Meets Humpty Dumpty

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 15:14:31

Quote from: Barley on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 15:01:46

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 14:20:25

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jan 15, 2014 - 13:41:50
TO me the word cult today means any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible.

It means little what the word means to you.  What matters is what it actually means.

For example, if I believed the word "cult" to mean "any person or group who believes exactly what chosenone believes", what difference would that make?  In my mind chosenone would be locked in a cult for the rest of her life.  It doesn't make it true.

Hey, would you please say again, in different words, what it is you are saying.
I can't follow what you are saying.  

Let's take a word in the dictionary.  Let's take the word "apple".

The word "apple" means something in particular.  Namely:

Quotea round fruit with red, yellow, or green skin and firm white flesh

But let's say that some person believes that "apple" means "a food kids eat for lunch".  That person's own definition of the word "apple" doesn't change what the word "apple" means.  Not matter if they believe that "apple" means "tar from a pine tree" or "belly-button lint", for example, the word "apple" still means "a round fruit with red, yellow, or green skin and firm white flesh".

So it doesn't matter how one person defines a word.  The word still means what it is normally understood to mean.  Therefore one person saying that the word "cult" to them means "any religious group, large or small, who think and believe they are Christian, but whose beliefs are not usually biblical and who have added loads of things to the Bible" doesn't mean that that is actually what the word means.  The definition still remains the same.

Now language is malleable, and over time words can come to have different meanings from what they once had.  For example, "cult" is one such word.  In the not too distant past, cult meant "a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also :  its body of adherents ".  Modernly the word "cult" has been taken on a negative connotation.   Here is the modern usage:

"a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous"

It is not up to any person to decide for themselves what the word "cult" means.  If they do, then they are acting silly.  Like humpty dumpty.

QuoteWhen I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.

Alice Meets Humpty Dumpty

Ok thanks, I can see what you meant now.
Sorry I think I helped this topic to get off course. I believe we all know what the original poster meant, even if we have been using the word cult incorrectly.
And I believe that some of us knew what was being said even if the word was used incorrectly.
Barley

Using the negative definition of cult, which I think is becoming the used definition, I would say a cult must be small.  We don't call major religions (lots of adherents) cults, only their offshoots.

I don't agree with the distinctives of Protestant denominations, but I would never call them cults like I would JWs and Mormons. 

In Christian usage, cults are considered as Hank Hennagraff would say "beyond the pale of orthodoxy."

There have been lots of cults in history (using the modern definitions) starting maybe with the gnostics followed by the Arians.