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Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

For the sake of putting accuracy on the record the following are the actual words Pope Francis used in his discourse yesterday . 


Signori Cardinali,
Cari Fratelli nell'episcopato e nel sacerdozio,
Illustri Signore e Signori!

Mentre cadeva il velo dal busto, che gli Accademici hanno voluto nella sede della Pontificia Accademia delle Scienze in segno di riconoscimento e gratitudine, un'emozione gioiosa si è fatta viva nella mia anima. Questo busto di Benedetto XVI rievoca agli occhi di tutti la persona e il volto del caro Papa Ratzinger. Rievoca anche il suo spirito: quello dei suoi insegnamenti, dei suoi esempi, delle sue opere, della sua devozione alla Chiesa, della sua attuale vita "monastica". Questo spirito, lungi dallo sgretolarsi con l'andare del tempo, apparirà di generazione in generazione sempre più grande e potente. Benedetto XVI: un grande Papa. Grande per la forza e penetrazione della sua intelligenza, grande per il suo rilevante contributo alla teologia, grande per il suo amore nei confronti della Chiesa e degli esseri umani, grande per la sua virtù e la sua religiosità. Come voi ben sapete, il suo amore per la verità non si limita alla teologia e alla filosofia, ma si apre alle scienze. Il suo amore per la scienza si riversa nella sollecitudine per gli scienziati, senza distinzione di razza, nazionalità, civiltà, religione; sollecitudine per l'Accademia, da quando san Giovanni Paolo II lo nominò membro. Egli ha saputo onorare l'Accademia con la sua presenza e con la sua parola, e ha nominato molti dei suoi membri, compreso l'attuale Presidente Werner Arber. Benedetto XVI invitò, per la prima volta, un Presidente di questa Accademia a partecipare al Sinodo sulla nuova evangelizzazione, consapevole dell'importanza della scienza nella cultura moderna. Certo di lui non si potrà mai dire che lo studio e la scienza abbiano inaridito la sua persona e il suo amore nei confronti di Dio e del prossimo, ma al contrario, che la scienza, la saggezza e la preghiera hanno dilatato il suo cuore e il suo spirito. Ringraziamo Dio per il dono che ha fatto alla Chiesa e al mondo con l'esistenza e il pontificato di Papa Benedetto. Ringrazio tutti coloro che, generosamente, hanno reso possibile quest'opera e questo atto, in modo particolare l'autore del busto, lo scultore Fernando Delia, la famiglia Tua, e tutti gli Accademici. Desidero ringraziare tutti voi che siete qui presenti ad onorare questo grande Papa.

Alla conclusione della vostra Sessione plenaria, cari Accademici, sono felice di esprimere la mia profonda stima e il mio caloroso incoraggiamento a portare avanti il progresso scientifico e il miglioramento delle condizioni di vita della gente, specialmente dei più poveri.

State affrontando il tema altamente complesso dell'evoluzione del concetto di natura. Non entrerò affatto, lo capite bene, nella complessità scientifica di questa importante e decisiva questione. Voglio solo sottolineare che Dio e Cristo camminano con noi e sono presenti anche nella natura, come ha affermato l'apostolo Paolo nel discorso all'Areopago: «In Dio infatti viviamo, ci muoviamo ed esistiamo» (At 17,28). Quando leggiamo nella Genesi il racconto della Creazione rischiamo di immaginare che Dio sia stato un mago, con tanto di bacchetta magica in grado di fare tutte le cose. Ma non è così. Egli ha creato gli esseri e li ha lasciati sviluppare secondo le leggi interne che Lui ha dato ad ognuno, perché si sviluppassero, perché arrivassero alla propria pienezza. Egli ha dato l'autonomia agli esseri dell'universo al tempo stesso in cui ha assicurato loro la sua presenza continua, dando l'essere ad ogni realtà. E così la creazione è andata avanti per secoli e secoli, millenni e millenni finché è diventata quella che conosciamo oggi, proprio perché Dio non è un demiurgo o un mago, ma il Creatore che dà l'essere a tutti gli enti. L'inizio del mondo non è opera del caos che deve a un altro la sua origine, ma deriva direttamente da un Principio supremo che crea per amore. Il Big-Bang, che oggi si pone all'origine del mondo, non contraddice l'intervento creatore divino ma lo esige. L'evoluzione nella natura non contrasta con la nozione di Creazione, perché l'evoluzione presuppone la creazione degli esseri che si evolvono.

Per quanto riguarda l'uomo, invece, vi è un cambiamento e una novità. Quando, al sesto giorno del racconto della Genesi, arriva la creazione dell'uomo, Dio dà all'essere umano un'altra autonomia, un'autonomia diversa da quella della natura, che è la libertà. E dice all'uomo di dare il nome a tutte le cose e di andare avanti nel corso della storia. Lo rende responsabile della creazione, anche perché domini il Creato, perché lo sviluppi e così fino alla fine dei tempi. Quindi allo scienziato, e soprattutto allo scienziato cristiano, corrisponde l'atteggiamento di interrogarsi sull'avvenire dell'umanità e della terra, e, da essere libero e responsabile, di concorrere a prepararlo, a preservarlo, a eliminarne i rischi dell'ambiente sia naturale che umano. Ma, allo stesso tempo, lo scienziato dev'essere mosso dalla fiducia che la natura nasconda, nei suoi meccanismi evolutivi, delle potenzialità che spetta all'intelligenza e alla libertà scoprire e attuare per arrivare allo sviluppo che è nel disegno del Creatore. Allora, per quanto limitata, l'azione dell'uomo partecipa della potenza di Dio ed è in grado di costruire un mondo adatto alla sua duplice vita corporea e spirituale; costruire un mondo umano per tutti gli esseri umani e non per un gruppo o una classe di privilegiati. Questa speranza e fiducia in Dio, Autore della natura, e nella capacità dello spirito umano sono in grado di dare al ricercatore un'energia nuova e una serenità profonda. Ma è anche vero che l'azione dell'uomo, quando la sua libertà diventa autonomia – che non è libertà, ma autonomia – distrugge il creato e l'uomo prende il posto del Creatore. E questo è il grave peccato contro Dio Creatore.

Vi incoraggio a continuare i vostri lavori e a realizzare le felici iniziative teoriche e pratiche a favore degli esseri umani che vi fanno onore. Consegno ora con gioia il collare, che mons. Sánchez Sorondo darà ai nuovi membri. Grazie.

ummm, is there an english translation?

I believe by reading more about His comments that He di in fact say that he was in agreement with the Big Bang and evolution. I believe  also that there is some credibility to that however we don't have perfect facts. The question was always there that if the universe was started from one spot and exploded  outward as something that came from nothing and now we have the universe that is constantly moving and having the very scientific origins of all life. Who did it. Only God could of course. 

What bothers me about the popes comments is He said God is not a magician.  Well not certainly like we see being earthly magicians who are tricksters, but God did make all things happen and the book of John states that very clear. In my opinion it is aworldly statement that really would have been better said that,  nothing is impossible to God  who is divinely supernatural.

 

qui tam ridiculam! sed id non iuvat?

sorry.  my 2 yrs of latin aren't of much use these days.

I did read about it online tho.

way to go pope!

While the veil fell from his body, that the academicians have wanted the headquarters of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in recognition and gratitude, joyful emotion became alive in my soul. This bust of Benedict XVI recalls the sight of all the people, and the face of the beloved Pope Ratzinger. He evokes his spirit: that of his teachings, his example, his works, his devotion to the Church, his current life "monastic". This spirit, far from crumbling over the course of time, will appear from generation to generation ever larger and more powerful. Benedict XVI: a great Pope. Great for strength and penetration of his intellect, great for his significant contribution to theology, to his great love for the Church and of human beings, great for his virtue and piety. As you know, his love of truth is not limited to theology and philosophy, but is open to science. His love for science spills over into concern for scientists, regardless of race, nationality, civilization, religion; Concern for the Academy, since St. John Paul II appointed him a member. He was able to honor the Academy with his presence and by his word, and appointed many of its members, including the current President Werner Arber. Benedict XVI invited, for the first time, a President of this Academy to attend the Synod on the new evangelization, aware of the importance of science in modern culture. Sure he can never say that the study and science have withered his person and his love for God and neighbor, but on the contrary, that science, wisdom and prayer have expanded his heart and his spirit. We thank God for the gift he has given to the Church and to the world with the existence and the pontificate of Pope Benedict. I thank all those who generously made ​​this work possible and this place, especially the author of the bust, the sculptor Fernando Delia, Your Family, and all the Academicians. I want to thank all of you who are here to honor this great Pope.


At the end of your plenary session, dear Academicians, I am happy to express my deep appreciation and my warm encouragement to pursue scientific progress and the improvement of living conditions of the people, especially the poor.


Are you addressing the issue highly complex evolution of the concept of nature. I will not go at all, I understand well, the scientific complexity of this important and decisive question. I just want to point out that God and Christ walking with us, and are also found in nature, as stated by the apostle Paul in the Areopagus speech: "In God we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). When we read in the Genesis account of Creation in danger of imagining that God was a magician, complete with a magic wand that can do all things. But it does not. He created beings and let them develop in accordance with the internal laws that He has given to each one, because they develop it because it arrived to its fullest. He gave autonomy to the beings of the universe at the same time in which he assured them of his continued presence, giving being to all reality. Thus, the creation has been going on for centuries, millennia and millennia until it became what we know today, because God is not a creator or a wizard, but the Creator who gives being to all entities. The beginning of the world is not the work of the chaos that has another of its origin, but is derived directly from a supreme principle which creates love. The Big Bang, which today stands at the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine creator intervention but demands it. Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.


As for the man, however, there is a change and a novelty. When, on the sixth day of the story of Genesis, comes the creation of man, God gives another human being autonomy, autonomy different from that of nature, which is freedom. It tells man to name all the things and move forward in the course of history. It makes him responsible for the creation, because the domains created, because the developments and so on until the end of time. So the scientist, and especially the scientist Christian attitude corresponds to examine the future of humanity and the earth, and to be free and responsible, to help to prepare, preserve it, and eliminate the risks of the environment is natural and human. But at the same time, the scientist must be moved by the confidence that nature hides in his evolutionary mechanisms, the potential that it is the intelligence and the freedom to discover and implement to get the development that is in the design of the Creator. So, no matter how limited, the action of man partakes of the power of God and is able to build a world fit for his dual life bodily and spiritual; build a humane world for all human beings and not to a group or class of privileged people. This hope and trust in God, the Author of nature, and the ability of the human spirit are able to provide the researcher with a new energy and profound peace. But it is also true that the action of man, when his freedom becomes autonomy - which is not freedom but autonomy - and the man destroys creation takes the place of the Creator. And this is the great sin against God the Creator.


I encourage you to continue your work and to realize the happy theoretical and practical initiatives for the benefit of human beings who make honor. I hand now with joy collar, which Msgr. Sánchez Sorondo give to new members. Thanks.

Heb 11:1 ¶  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2  For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3  Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Ps 33:6  By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7  He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8  Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9  For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

No big surprise in the Pope not believing the bible.

Quote from: FishingForSouls on Tue Oct 28, 2014 - 15:52:12
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Clearly the Independent is skewing what the Pope said in its headline.  The Pope isn't declaring that evolution or the Big Bang theory are right.  He is simply saying that both require the existence of a creator.  Not that they are right.

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:07:46

Quote from: FishingForSouls on Tue Oct 28, 2014 - 15:52:12
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Clearly the Independent is skewing what the Pope said in its headline.  The Pope isn't declaring that evolution or the Big Bang theory are right.  He is simply saying that both require the existence of a creator.  Not that they are right.

I think the Pope needs to be careful playing in the hands of Science. Science is beginning to show us that no creator is needed. "The theory of everything" explains how something from nothing can be.
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-12/making-something-nothing-theory-says-matter-can-be-conjured-vacuum

The respect that people have for the pope almost seems like worship to me.. I don't put a lot of stock in the pope.. It means very little to me what he says

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:07:46

Quote from: FishingForSouls on Tue Oct 28, 2014 - 15:52:12
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Clearly the Independent is skewing what the Pope said in its headline.  The Pope isn't declaring that evolution or the Big Bang theory are right.  He is simply saying that both require the existence of a creator.  Not that they are right.

I think the Pope needs to be careful playing in the hands of Science. Science is beginning to show us that no creator is needed. "The theory of everything" explains how something from nothing can be.

I pushed Paulus' actual words through the Google Italian to English translator.  There is really nothing to see here.  The Pope is just say that even though we have these theories today, each of them still rely on and require the existence of a creator.  Which means the Pope is full aware of science trying to edge out God.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16
Do people actually pray to the Pope?

Kind of off-topic, even though the question is fair.  Any thread we can avoid derailing is a good thing.

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 11:01:16

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:07:46

Quote from: FishingForSouls on Tue Oct 28, 2014 - 15:52:12
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Clearly the Independent is skewing what the Pope said in its headline.  The Pope isn't declaring that evolution or the Big Bang theory are right.  He is simply saying that both require the existence of a creator.  Not that they are right.

I think the Pope needs to be careful playing in the hands of Science. Science is beginning to show us that no creator is needed. "The theory of everything" explains how something from nothing can be.

I pushed Paulus' actual words through the Google Italian to English translator.  There is really nothing to see here.  The Pope is just say that even though we have these theories today, each of them still rely on and require the existence of a creator.  Which means the Pope is full aware of science trying to edge out God.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16
Do people actually pray to the Pope?

Kind of off-topic, even though the question is fair.  Any thread we can avoid derailing is a good thing.

You got to  it before I edited ^^^.. Not my intent to take off subject.

I just wonder how many people will twist and spin what the Pope has said. I don't think he should have been as specific as he was by mentioning the specific  big bang theory and evolution unless he was trying to bridge Science with God.

Real Simple-- God created!  Who cares how and why would the Pope even want to stir up such drama?   

(p.s.  How do you quote just a section of someones reply? -Thanks)

THE TRANSLATION BY THE VATICAN INFORMATION SERVICE :-

Lord Cardinals,

Dear Brothers in the Episcopate and Priesthood, Distinguished Ladies and Gentlemen!

As the veil of the bust fell, which the Academicians wished to have in the headquarters of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences,  in sign of recognition and gratitude, a joyful emotion arose in my mind. This bust of Benedict XVI recalls to everyone's eyes the face of our beloved Pope Ratzinger. It also recalls his spirit: that of his teachings, of his examples, of his works, of his devotion to the Church, to his present "monastic" life. This spirit, far from crumbling with the passage of time, will appear from generation to generation, always greater and more powerful.

Benedict XVI: a great Pope. Great for the strength and penetration of his intelligence; great for his important contribution to theology; great for his love in addressing the Church and human beings; great for his virtue and his religiosity. As you well know, his love for the truth is not limited to theology and philosophy, but is open to the sciences. His love of science overflows in his concern for scientists, without distinction of race, nationality, civilization, or religion; his concern for the Academy with his presence and his word; moreover, he appointed many of its members, including the current President, Werner Arber.

Benedict XVI invited, for the first time, a president of this Academy to take part in the Synod on the New Evangelization, conscious of the importance of science in modern culture. It will certainly not be able to be said of him that study and science dried up his person and his love in his encounters with God and his neighbor but, on the contrary, science, wisdom and prayer dilated his heart and spirit. We thank God for the gift He made to the Church and the world with the existence and pontificate of Pope Benedict. I thank all those who, generously, made possible this work and this ceremony, in particular, the creator of the bust, sculptor Fernando Delia, the Tua Family, and all the Academicians. I wish to thank all of you who are present here to honor this great Pope.   

At the conclusion of your Plenary Session, dear Academicians, I am happy to express my profound esteem and my warm encouragement to carry forward scientific progress and the improvement of the conditions of life of people, especially the poorest.

You are addressing the highly complex topic of the evolution of the concept of nature. I will not go into it all, you understand well the scientific complexity of this important and decisive question. I only wish to underline that God and Christ walk with us and are present also in nature, as the Apostle Paul affirmed in his address at the Areopagus: "In Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). When we read in Genesis the account of Creation, we risk imagining that God was a magician, with such a magic wand as to be able to do everything. However, it was not like that. He created beings and left them to develop according to the internal laws that He gave each one, so that they would develop, and reach their fullness. He gave autonomy to the beings of the universe at the same time that He assured them of his continual presence, giving being to every reality. And thus creation went forward for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia until it became what we know today, in fact because God is not a demiurge or a magician, but the Creator who gives being to all entities. The beginning of the world was not the work of chaos, which owes its origin to another, but it derives directly from a Supreme Principle who creates out of love. The Big-Bang, that is placed today at the origin of the world, does not contradict the concept of divine intervention but confirms it. Evolution in nature is not opposed to the notion of Creation, because evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.

In regard to man, instead, there is a change and a novelty. When, on the sixth day of the Genesis account, we come to the creation of man, God gives the human being another autonomy, a different autonomy from that of nature, which is freedom. And He tells man to give a name to all things and to go forward in the course of history. He renders him responsible for creation, also so that he will dominate Creation, so that he will develop it and so forth until the end of time. Therefore, the attitude that corresponds to the scientist, especially to the Christian scientist is to question himself about the future of humanity and of the earth and, as a free and responsible being, to contribute to prepare it, to preserve it, and to eliminate the risks of the environment, be they natural or human. However, at the same time, the scientist must be moved by trust that hidden nature, in its evolving mechanisms, of potentialities that concern the intelligence and freedom, to discover and to act to arrive at development, which is in the plan of the Creator.

Then, although limited, man's action participates in the power of God and is able to build a world adapted to his twofold corporeal and spiritual life; to build a human world for all – for all human beings, and not for a group or a privileged class. This hope and trust in God, Author of nature, and in the capacity of the human spirit, are able to give the researcher new energy and profound serenity. However, it is also true that man's action, when his liberty becomes autonomy,  which is not liberty but autonomy,   destroys creation and man takes the place of the Creator. And this is the grave sin against God the Creator.

I encourage you to continue your works and to carry out that felicitous theoretical and practical initiatives in favour of human beings, which do them honour. I  will now joyfully consign the regalia that Monsignor Sanchez Sorondo will give the new Members. Thank you.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 11:50:41

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 11:01:16

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:07:46

Quote from: FishingForSouls on Tue Oct 28, 2014 - 15:52:12
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

Clearly the Independent is skewing what the Pope said in its headline.  The Pope isn't declaring that evolution or the Big Bang theory are right.  He is simply saying that both require the existence of a creator.  Not that they are right.

I think the Pope needs to be careful playing in the hands of Science. Science is beginning to show us that no creator is needed. "The theory of everything" explains how something from nothing can be.

I pushed Paulus' actual words through the Google Italian to English translator.  There is really nothing to see here.  The Pope is just say that even though we have these theories today, each of them still rely on and require the existence of a creator.  Which means the Pope is full aware of science trying to edge out God.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 10:22:16
Do people actually pray to the Pope?

Kind of off-topic, even though the question is fair.  Any thread we can avoid derailing is a good thing.

You got to  it before I edited ^^^.. Not my intent to take off subject.

I just wonder how many people will twist and spin what the Pope has said. I don't think he should have been as specific as he was by mentioning the specific  big bang theory and evolution unless he was trying to bridge Science with God.

Science in its true form is not opposed to God.  Science just looks at what God created.  We know from the Bible that "Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made." Romans 1:20a. 

The Catholic faith is not opposed to science, and any claims that it has ever been are misguided.  The fact that people have to reach back to the time of Galileo to even come up with something to suggest such really shows that it is not.  However the Catholic Church rests first on the revelation of God.  The Catholic faith will never rest on the opinions of scientists to gather its doctrine.  And it will always, always resist attempts of pseudo-scientist atheists to suggest that God doesn't exist.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 11:50:41
Real Simple-- God created!  Who cares how and why would the Pope even want to stir up such drama?

The Pope isn't trying to stir up drama; the media is, as well as the OP and a few posters here on this thread.

Quote from: Jd34 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 - 11:50:41
(p.s.  How do you quote just a section of someones reply? -Thanks)

At the part you want to parse, end it by typing:
[/quote]

To start the new section, copy and paste the first quote tag.  For instance, in this reply I am using:
[quote author=Jd34 link=topic=84872.msg1054935385#msg1054935385 date=1414601441]

Andre

QuoteThe Pope isn't trying to stir up drama; the media is, as well as the OP and a few posters here on this thread.

Yeah, I agree- and I must admit its easy to get caught up in.

thanks for the info on how to quote!!

The title of this thread is not exactly what the Pope said. Hear it for yourself. I agree with what the man sais- no brainer for me