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I think that anyone who calls the gift of tongues 'gibberish' and demeans what God Himself has given, it risking a very hard lesson to come.
How offensive that is to God and Gods people, just like me telling someone foreign that their language sounds like gibberish, only worse because its the Holy Spirit it comes from.
I have heard many prophecies and words from God give this way, it what is supposed to happen in our churches. Its all in Paul's letters, clearly taught on.

A HEAVENLY LANGUAGE

Many people inaccurately define speaking in tongues as "speaking gibberish" or "talking nonsense." The truth is, speaking in tongues is the most intelligent, perfect language in the universe. It is God's language.

What language do you suppose people speak in heaven? Languages are given their name based on the countries they come from. For example, English comes from England. Spanish comes from Spain. Italian comes from Italy.

Well, where does tongues come from? It comes from Heaven! Tongues is the heavenly language. It is what is spoken in heaven; the only difference is that the people in heaven understand what they are saying. Here on earth Paul says, "For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understand him; he utters mysteries with his spirit" (v. 2).

Jesus says that those who believe in Him will "speak in new tongues" (Mark 16:17). The word "new" means appearing for the first time. No one had spoken these languages before. Contrary to bad theology tongues is not an ability given to preach the gospel in the language of foreigners. This would make tongues "old" languages. It is only appropriate that "new tongues" should be spoken by those of the "new birth." It is natural and normal to speak in the language of your birth. We are born again from above, therefore we should speak the language from above--that language is called "new tongues."

Quote from: winsome on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 06:06:17

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 14, 2014 - 16:35:17

Yes thats the point and verses I used a while back in this debate. Paul had to limit words given in this way which shows there were many more who had words. Many churches often have words from God or prophecies given in tongues, its completely bIblical and should be normal and frequent if a church is open to hearing God speak.   

Prophecies are biblical.

Prophecies spoken in a human language are biblical .

Prophecies that given out as gibberish are just gibberish and are not biblical.

6 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

 

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:37:38
NO ONE HERE said that Prophecies should be should be given in gibberish.  You guys need to get off of that.  It has been said that some languages sound like gibberish.  Which is true to the common person sitting there.  There is no way a linguist sits in every service, nor is it needed since just as the word that would seem to us to be gibberish is given by God, so is the interpretation. 

Prophecies are either given in an actual language or in un-intelligible sounds (=gibberish).

The problem is you claim that un-intelligible sounds are actual languages. Catholica's point is that the evidence shows it is not. People are fooling themselves and fooling others.
 

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:37:38
It doesn't matter what it sounds like to you and me, God knows what is being said, and He gives the interpretation.

You claim it is from God. You have no proof of that.

Why would God give someone a prophecy that no-one, even the speaker, understands and then have to give it all over again in a proper language that people can understand? 

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:37:38
And even the scripture spoke for it's self in my post, you did not need to translate again in red.  I typed in English.  And my point was that it was not as rare as claimed since there was the permission for more than one in a service, Paul spoke to that because it was happening.  He admonished them to take turns and to be in order.  Not to get out of hand, nor for services to be all about tongues and words given. 

It's not self evident since you were misapplying it.

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:37:38
It's plain to see that you know very little about this topic, even the OP posted someone else's teaching on this topic.  No research or study on his own to document.

How do you know that I know little about it?

Because I disagree with you?

That's not a proper basis for saying I know little about it.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:48:59
I think that anyone who calls the gift of tongues 'gibberish' and demeans what God Himself has given, it risking a very hard lesson to come.
How offensive that is to God and Gods people, just like me telling someone foreign that their language sounds like gibberish, only worse because its the Holy Spirit it comes from.
I have heard many prophecies and words from God give this way, it what is supposed to happen in our churches. Its all in Paul's letters, clearly taught on.

The gift of tongues is a gift of proper human languages not babbling.

It does not demean God to speak the truth about his gifts.

How offensive is it to God for people to babble a few syllables and claim it is a prophecy from God?

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 12:00:17

Quote from: winsome on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 06:06:17

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 14, 2014 - 16:35:17

Yes thats the point and verses I used a while back in this debate. Paul had to limit words given in this way which shows there were many more who had words. Many churches often have words from God or prophecies given in tongues, its completely bIblical and should be normal and frequent if a church is open to hearing God speak.   

Prophecies are biblical.

Prophecies spoken in a human language are biblical .

Prophecies that given out as gibberish are just gibberish and are not biblical.

6 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

See post #32 above

 

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:53:24
A HEAVENLY LANGUAGE

Many people inaccurately define speaking in tongues as "speaking gibberish" or "talking nonsense." The truth is, speaking in tongues is the most intelligent, perfect language in the universe. It is God's language.

What language do you suppose people speak in heaven? Languages are given their name based on the countries they come from. For example, English comes from England. Spanish comes from Spain. Italian comes from Italy.

You can claim that it is God's language but you provide not a shred of evidence for it. 

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:53:24
Well, where does tongues come from? It comes from Heaven! Tongues is the heavenly language. It is what is spoken in heaven; the only difference is that the people in heaven understand what they are saying. Here on earth Paul says, "For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understand him; he utters mysteries with his spirit" (v. 2).

Paul is speaking about someone who speaks in a foreign (human) language that the rest of the congregation do not understand. Therefore they are speaking to God only.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 11:53:24
Jesus says that those who believe in Him will "speak in new tongues" (Mark 16:17). The word "new" means appearing for the first time. No one had spoken these languages before. Contrary to bad theology tongues is not an ability given to preach the gospel in the language of foreigners. This would make tongues "old" languages. It is only appropriate that "new tongues" should be spoken by those of the "new birth." It is natural and normal to speak in the language of your birth. We are born again from above, therefore we should speak the language from above--that language is called "new tongues."

"speak in new tongues" means speak in new languages – new to them. The need to speak in other languages to spread the gospel.

So when you were speaking in tongues, and someone interpreted them for you kensington, what language did you speak?  And who was nearby who spoke that language?   

Prophecies are either given in an actual language or in un-intelligible sounds (=gibberish).

The problem is you claim that un-intelligible sounds are actual languages. Catholica's point is that the evidence shows it is not. People are fooling themselves and fooling others.

That is not what I claimed.  Perhaps you might read it again.  Only when you pray (In prayer) for yourself and know not what to pray does the HOLY SPIRIT pray through you with groins and utterances that only God knows what you are saying.  No one interprets that.
 

You claim it is from God. You have no proof of that.

Why would God give someone a prophecy that no-one, even the speaker, understands and then have to give it all over again in a proper language that people can understand? 

If you read again... you will see I said plainly that GOD gives the interpretation... per the word of God to back that up.

It's not self evident since you were misapplying it.

No, what I said lines up with the word of God.

How do you know that I know little about it?

Because I disagree with you?

That's not a proper basis for saying I know little about it.

It's plain to see, based on the non answers you give, and that you just keep repeating yourself.  Also, you repeat what someone else posted, rewording as your own. 

So when you were speaking in tongues, and someone interpreted them for you kensington, what language did you speak?  And who was nearby who spoke that language? 
It was a word in tongues.  It happens like this, we were in corporate body worship, the congregation was seeking God. The word came, with an unction... an intense unction to speak out. (Not praying or whispering) but speaking out as I might not do normally.  I waited a moment, and then released it ... and spoke what God put in my mouth. 

The words flowed out.
There was a momentary silence and one of the Pastors who has the gift of interpretation, gave the interpretation.

After the service a man told him that it was his language perfectly spoken.   He was from Africa.   I certainly do not know the language.  I cannot just spit it out as you wish... God gives it. 

It's never happened again, but I have been given interpretations twice.

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:18:31
So when you were speaking in tongues, and someone interpreted them for you kensington, what language did you speak?  And who was nearby who spoke that language? 
It was a word in tongues.  It happens like this, we were in corporate body worship, the congregation was seeking God. The word came, with an unction... an intense unction to speak out. (Not praying or whispering) but speaking out as I might not do normally.  I waited a moment, and then released it ... and spoke what God put in my mouth. 

The words flowed out.
There was a momentary silence and one of the Pastors who has the gift of interpretation, gave the interpretation.

After the service a man told him that it was his language perfectly spoken.   He was from Africa.   I certainly do not know the language.  I cannot just spit it out as you wish... God gives it. 

It's never happened again, but I have been given interpretations twice.

That was the gift of speaking in tongues.  There was a man there whom could verify that you spoke his language, and you speaking in tongues had a purpose, which was to communicate with that man in his own language.  The gift of interpretation was useful in order to translate what you said for the rest of the congregation.  But clearly in this situation the man from Africa could have translated it for you without any gift needed.

The gift isn't useful if it is speaking in a random language for no purpose, for no audience who spoke that language naturally.  Nor would he cause someone to speak in something that is not a language at all, which is how "speaking in tongues" manifests itself often, apparently.

NO...  you are confusing praying in tongues and giving a word in the body in a different tongue,  They are two different things.

I've seen it happen, when there was no one to say that is my tongue.  They may or may not have been there, but God gives the word and He sends the interpretation.

When I pray alone, no one there but me and God, deep in prayer, (especially praying for my kids), my prayer language comes out. (Not used to give a word in the body) and the Holy Spirit prays through me, words, and groins I cannot understand.  It may not be a language at all, just guttural utterings that the Holy Spirit is helping me to get out, and ONLY He and God the Father understand.  That is "Praying" in tongues. 

Words given, and praying are two different things. 

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:33:25
NO...  you are confusing praying in tongues and giving a word in the body in a different tongue,  They are two different things.

I've seen it happen, when there was no one to say that is my tongue.  They may or may not have been there, but God gives the word and He sends the interpretation.

Praying in tongues is between the gifted and God.  Speaking in tongues is for a purpose for the congregation.

If there was no one there who spoke the language, then that is not the gift of tongues.  That is useless obfuscation of a message.  There is no reason for it, only danger on the part of the gifted: danger to be puffed up in pride over the ability to be God's mouthpiece, danger by the interpreter to be puffed up with pride, danger that the interpreter is making stuff up, or having their interpretation influenced by the devil.

Speaking in tongues when there is no one there to verify naturally what is being said is very spiritually dangerous, as well as pointless.  And I am safe in saying that God is not going to do that when there is only drawback, no benefit.

kensington,

Do you consider congregational "praying in tongues" as one of of the gifts that Paul speaks of in 1Cor 12 & 14, as Pentecostals do?

The benefit is that when you use your prayer language, the Holy Spirit is praying through you directly to God for thins you may not even know how to pray or that you need.

The word says it's real, it's true, it happens, and yet you deny it.  I'd say the error lies in your true understanding of what the Prayer language is. How can you deny what the word of God says is true? 

Romans 8:26-27..."26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.'

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:18:31
So when you were speaking in tongues, and someone interpreted them for you kensington, what language did you speak?  And who was nearby who spoke that language? 
It was a word in tongues.  It happens like this, we were in corporate body worship, the congregation was seeking God. The word came, with an unction... an intense unction to speak out. (Not praying or whispering) but speaking out as I might not do normally.  I waited a moment, and then released it ... and spoke what God put in my mouth. 

The words flowed out.
There was a momentary silence and one of the Pastors who has the gift of interpretation, gave the interpretation.

After the service a man told him that it was his language perfectly spoken.   He was from Africa.   I certainly do not know the language.  I cannot just spit it out as you wish... God gives it. 

It's never happened again, but I have been given interpretations twice.

Its something that is normal and Biblical and that churches should be open to God speaking to them in this way, but most arent sadly.
God gives the tongue, God gives the message and God gives the interpretation through the gift of interpretation.He sees fit to use these gifts to communicate with His church, and because of that we should be open to it. 

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:39:43

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:33:25
NO...  you are confusing praying in tongues and giving a word in the body in a different tongue,  They are two different things.

I've seen it happen, when there was no one to say that is my tongue.  They may or may not have been there, but God gives the word and He sends the interpretation.

Praying in tongues is between the gifted and God.  Speaking in tongues is for a purpose for the congregation.

If there was no one there who spoke the language, then that is not the gift of tongues.  That is useless obfuscation of a message.  There is no reason for it, only danger on the part of the gifted: danger to be puffed up in pride over the ability to be God's mouthpiece, danger by the interpreter to be puffed up with pride, danger that the interpreter is making stuff up, or having their interpretation influenced by the devil.

Speaking in tongues when there is no one there to verify naturally what is being said is very spiritually dangerous, as well as pointless.  And I am safe in saying that God is not going to do that when there is only drawback, no benefit.

Very good Andre, and so was your other post above~One of my little granddaughters Abigail (2 yrs old) spoke in tongues this morning, and thank God that her sister Hannah interpreted for me, for I had no ideal what she said!

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:47:17
The benefit is that when you use your prayer language, the Holy Spirit is praying through you directly to God for thins you may not even know how to pray or that you need.

The word says it's real, it's true, it happens, and yet you deny it.  I'd say the error lies in your true understanding of what the Prayer language is. How can you deny what the word of God says is true? 

Romans 8:26-27..."26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.'

Here you are talking about praying in tongues.  That is different than speaking in tongues.  Speaking in tongues is really the topic of this thread.  I know that I wasn't clear on that previously, but this thread really deals with speaking in tongues which is different than praying in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:07:28Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

Very good and agree.

I agree, speaking or giving a word in tongues is DIFFERENT than praying in tongues, which is your prayer language. 

I'm glad that is cleared up.  We agree on this. 

Another takeaway from the podcast that I thought was good to note and important is that a person's gift, because it is a gift, is not absolutely related to the holiness of the person to whom it has been gifted.  That is, people with this gift are not necessarily more or less holy than other people.

As an aside, I believe that my gifts are the gift of teaching and the gift of understanding.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:34:16
Another takeaway from the podcast that I thought was good to note and important is that a person's gift, because it is a gift, is not absolutely related to the holiness of the person to whom it has been gifted.  That is, people with this gift are not necessarily more or less holy than other people.

As an aside, I believe that my gifts are the gift of teaching and the gift of understanding.

Some believers are far more open to the gifts than others, and the Holy Spirit will never force a gift on anyone. Just as some churches are far more open than others, and again, The Holy spirit will never act if He is not welcomed or wanted or given any room to work or speak.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:39:43

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:33:25
NO...  you are confusing praying in tongues and giving a word in the body in a different tongue,  They are two different things.

I've seen it happen, when there was no one to say that is my tongue.  They may or may not have been there, but God gives the word and He sends the interpretation.

Praying in tongues is between the gifted and God.  Speaking in tongues is for a purpose for the congregation.

If there was no one there who spoke the language, then that is not the gift of tongues.  That is useless obfuscation of a message.  There is no reason for it, only danger on the part of the gifted: danger to be puffed up in pride over the ability to be God's mouthpiece, danger by the interpreter to be puffed up with pride, danger that the interpreter is making stuff up, or having their interpretation influenced by the devil.

Speaking in tongues when there is no one there to verify naturally what is being said is very spiritually dangerous, as well as pointless.  And I am safe in saying that God is not going to do that when there is only drawback, no benefit.

  If God gives a message through the gift of tongues, He will provide the interpretation. I have never hard a  word given in a church or meeting that wasnt interpreted.

Quote from: Red Baker on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:10:33

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:07:28Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

Very good and agree.

It depends on whether you want to hear God speak or not . I love to hear him speak to His church family.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:45:44

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:39:43

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:33:25
NO...  you are confusing praying in tongues and giving a word in the body in a different tongue,  They are two different things.

I've seen it happen, when there was no one to say that is my tongue.  They may or may not have been there, but God gives the word and He sends the interpretation.

Praying in tongues is between the gifted and God.  Speaking in tongues is for a purpose for the congregation.

If there was no one there who spoke the language, then that is not the gift of tongues.  That is useless obfuscation of a message.  There is no reason for it, only danger on the part of the gifted: danger to be puffed up in pride over the ability to be God's mouthpiece, danger by the interpreter to be puffed up with pride, danger that the interpreter is making stuff up, or having their interpretation influenced by the devil.

Speaking in tongues when there is no one there to verify naturally what is being said is very spiritually dangerous, as well as pointless.  And I am safe in saying that God is not going to do that when there is only drawback, no benefit.

  If God gives a message through the gift of tongues, He will provide the interpretation. I have never hard a  word given in a church or meeting that wasnt interpreted.

How do you know the difference, then, between an unstable person babbling gibberish and another unstable person making up whatever he wants the message to say, and an actual message from God with an actual interpretation from God?  You can't.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:47:16It depends on whether you want to hear God speak or not .

Chosenone that's why I read the word of God, for I desire God to speak to me through the prophets and apostles of old.

Acts 13:27

  .  "For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him."

The word of God is more sure than any voices, or languages that we may think is God speaking to us, or through us.

2 Peter 1:16-21

  .  "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Peter said that the written word of God, was MORE SURE than what he experienced on the holy mount with Jesus Christ!  We as humans can be deceived by visions, voices, dreams, feelings, etc.~but not by the written word of God, for it is forever settled in heaven as a sure foundation upon which we can build our faith upon. God speaks to me every day through his word, and for this I am very thankful, and beside this, I do not need anything else to boost my faith in him~ and it would be sinful for me to look for something else, other than the word of the Living God, for me to trust in and live by.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:07:28

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:47:17
The benefit is that when you use your prayer language, the Holy Spirit is praying through you directly to God for thins you may not even know how to pray or that you need.

The word says it's real, it's true, it happens, and yet you deny it.  I'd say the error lies in your true understanding of what the Prayer language is. How can you deny what the word of God says is true? 

Romans 8:26-27..."26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.'

Here you are talking about praying in tongues.  That is different than speaking in tongues.  Speaking in tongues is really the topic of this thread.  I know that I wasn't clear on that previously, but this thread really deals with speaking in tongues which is different than praying in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

There is no difference between praying and speaking in tongues, other than the audience.
Praying in tongues has God as an audience, and the Bible teaches that God already knows peoples thoughts and minds.
God doesn't need a person to accompany his thoughts with gibberish, it doesn't make sense.

Any and all gifts are available to the believer. Paul taught that the gift to seek above others is to Prophecy, but it's clear you can have one gift or all of them as God endows you. The first gift any believer can see or expect to see in their life would be the gift of "discernment" it's the basic gift.  I've had that for a long time.  The gift to discern spiritual or non spiritual things.

Example, I used to have someone in my life who often lied.  I didn't like it and found it creepy, so I prayed and asked the Lord to not allow me to be deceived by this person.  When this person was in my home, the Holy Spirit quickened me when they lied.  Even at numerous times speaking directly to me "ask this question"...  which caused them to reveal the lie.  The gifts are for us, to guide us, teach us, protect us and to enable us to grow and teach others.

I also have the gift of Prophetic Hospitality, Helps, teaching, encouragement, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, and giving. Once I laid hands on and prayed for someone who's hair was falling out, and it all grew back and came in thick. No dr, no medicines... just nice hair.  It was a wonderful experience...  She had such thinning hair and had tried things for years.  Even perms, they just fell out and she would cry.  When I met her she wore wigs all the time.  She told me of her problem, and my compassion was so stirred that I said... "Let me try"... I gave her a perm.  With each curler, I pray again, and again and again.  When we took it out, it was curled, and stay curled. She wept. She couldn't believe it.  People asked her if she had gotten a new wig... Her hair started coming back in, and in no time at all, she needed no wigs and no more perms.

Quote from: AVZ on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 18:10:43

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:07:28

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:47:17
The benefit is that when you use your prayer language, the Holy Spirit is praying through you directly to God for thins you may not even know how to pray or that you need.

The word says it's real, it's true, it happens, and yet you deny it.  I'd say the error lies in your true understanding of what the Prayer language is. How can you deny what the word of God says is true? 

Romans 8:26-27..."26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.'

Here you are talking about praying in tongues.  That is different than speaking in tongues.  Speaking in tongues is really the topic of this thread.  I know that I wasn't clear on that previously, but this thread really deals with speaking in tongues which is different than praying in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

There is no difference between praying and speaking in tongues, other than the audience.
Praying in tongues has God as an audience, and the Bible teaches that God already knows peoples thoughts and minds.
God doesn't need a person to accompany his thoughts with gibberish, it doesn't make sense.

IT makes sense to Him, and thats why he gives that spiritual language for us to pray to him with. Yes he knows our thoughts, but does that stop you speaking to Him? Same with tongues, its our spirits praying directly to God who is spirit. Its a way of praying always in His will, and by passing our own minds which can so often pray the wrong thing because so often we dont know what Gods will is or what exactly to pray for.     

The only gifts that I have that I am a 100% sure of are tongues, giving and spiritual discernment. My husband also has tongues, has been told 4 or 5 times that God is going to use him more and more in prophecy, and he also gets given  words of knowledge and words of wisdom. He has also been told more than once that He has the gift of encouragement, and will be used more in healing.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 20:57:21

Quote from: AVZ on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 18:10:43

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 14:07:28

Quote from: kensington on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 13:47:17
The benefit is that when you use your prayer language, the Holy Spirit is praying through you directly to God for thins you may not even know how to pray or that you need.

The word says it's real, it's true, it happens, and yet you deny it.  I'd say the error lies in your true understanding of what the Prayer language is. How can you deny what the word of God says is true? 

Romans 8:26-27..."26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.'

Here you are talking about praying in tongues.  That is different than speaking in tongues.  Speaking in tongues is really the topic of this thread.  I know that I wasn't clear on that previously, but this thread really deals with speaking in tongues which is different than praying in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a gift that is for someone else.  So it is a useful gift for providing what someone else needs and you cannot give, because you cannot speak their language, and faith comes through hearing.  It is not a purposeless gift.  The Holy Spirit will speak through people without using tongues, if the audience and the person speaking speak the same language.  There is no use for speaking in tongues if there are not language barriers to overcome.

There is no difference between praying and speaking in tongues, other than the audience.
Praying in tongues has God as an audience, and the Bible teaches that God already knows peoples thoughts and minds.
God doesn't need a person to accompany his thoughts with gibberish, it doesn't make sense.

IT makes sense to Him, and thats why he gives that spiritual language for us to pray to him with. Yes he knows our thoughts, but does that stop you speaking to Him? Same with tongues, its our spirits praying directly to God who is spirit. Its a way of praying always in His will, and by passing our own minds which can so often pray the wrong thing because so often we dont know what Gods will is or what exactly to pray for.   

That's what you make of it, but it is not what the Bible says exists.
See if you do not know what to pray for, and then gibberish takes over...you still do not know what the gibberish means.
Hence you do not know if you are praying at all. For all you know you are just uttering unintelligible nonsense.

You claim to know that tongues are 100% sure, but fact is...you don't even know what you are saying when you pray in tongues.
If indeed you can be 100% sure, then you could translate gibberish...yet you can't.

In fact, when you pray your mind is at work and reasons.
You can only reason in an intelligible language, because unintelligible language by definition is unreasonable.
That's why you can never think in gibberish, because your mind will take over and translate your thoughts into English or any other language you know.

So here is the case:
- you cannot think in gibberish without excluding intelligible thoughts
- when you open your mouth to speak the gibberish you just thought of, how did it now suddenly become other than gibberish?

The whole point about speaking/praying in tongues is that it must be an intelligible language that can be translated.
In public it must be translated.
If you can't translate it...it's just gibberish. It doesn't mean anything to you, it doesn't mean anything to other people and it doesn't mean anything to God.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 21:03:26
The only gifts that I have that I am a 100% sure of are tongues, giving and spiritual discernment. My husband also has tongues, has been told 4 or 5 times that God is going to use him more and more in prophecy, and he also gets given  words of knowledge and words of wisdom. He has also been told more than once that He has the gift of encouragement, and will be used more in healing.

Yes, it is very easy to be 100% sure of something you can't prove.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 - 21:03:26
The only gifts that I have that I am a 100% sure of are tongues, giving and spiritual discernment.

Would you used your gift of spiritual discernment, and reply to post #60?