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Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far? I've had guy friends in the past who said they think about it all the time. However, if that were to occur for me, it would make me uncomfortable. Because I feel like would be degrading that woman in my mind.

We're men with hormones, it happens. The important thing is to not act on it, and not let it linger. Is it a sin? Honestly I just think it's our mind interpreting a physical reaction, something we must be lord of and not the other way around.

Imaging having sex with someone you arent married to is going to far surely? I guess our minds will go as far as we let them. 

Christ said that lusting to that extreme is akin to adultery. Allowing our minds to be filled with these kinds of thoughts is certainly unhealthy and can only lead to temptation.

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far?

No different than adultery.  As males, we cross that line when we allow our thoughts to consider and ponder a woman's beauty, more so, her body, that may be well favored by God. As males we cannot allow ourselves to think upon a woman, with a desire to have her.

Job 31:1

  . "I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Even a maid, much more so of a woman who has a husband.  Men are totally 100% visual, to a fault~we must control our eyes first and foremost, which put the thought process into motion, which cause men to sin in this respect.   So it starts with ruling one's spirit, by which he worship God with, which God sees and knows better than we do ourselves. We go too far when we do not first begin to rule our spirits, which allows us to controls our eyes, which will not allow such things into our hearts a ruling seat.

No man (or woman) has the right to judge you based on what is in your mind, but there are two scriptures I would like to share with you to address your concerns:

Quote from: James 113 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 618 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Quote from: Alan on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 07:42:45
Christ said that lusting to that extreme is akin to adultery. Allowing our minds to be filled with these kinds of thoughts is certainly unhealthy and can only lead to temptation.

Bear in mind It's utterly ridiculous for two unmarried people to commit adultery.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 08:10:46

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far?

No different than adultery.  As males, we cross that line when we allow our thoughts to consider and ponder a woman's beauty, more so, her body, that may be well favored by God. As males we cannot allow ourselves to think upon a woman, with a desire to have her.
Job 31:1

  . "I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Even a maid, much more so of a woman who has a husband.  Men are totally 100% visual, to a fault~we must control our eyes first and foremost, which put the thought process into motion, which cause men to sin in this respect.   So it starts with ruling one's spirit, by which he worship God with, which God sees and knows better than we do ourselves. We go too far when we do not first begin to rule our spirits, which allows us to controls our eyes, which will not allow such things into our hearts a ruling seat.

This is part of Jobs speech of extreme depression. Please, read more than one verse before building a doctrine on it, esp a doctrine oppressive to people such as our topic creator...

Context Context Context.

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32
Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far? I've had guy friends in the past who said they think about it all the time. However, if that were to occur for me, it would make me uncomfortable. Because I feel like would be degrading that woman in my mind.

Keep your mind on someone available and obtainable. Then go obtain her. When thinking of a woman sexually think of what living a life and having a family with her would be like. That will dissuade you from lusting after women who are unsuitable, and further encourage you to pursue those who are.

This is pretty much how things are supposed to happen. Be as confident as you can, and Godspeed and prayers.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 - 22:21:44

Quote from: Alan on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 07:42:45
Christ said that lusting to that extreme is akin to adultery. Allowing our minds to be filled with these kinds of thoughts is certainly unhealthy and can only lead to temptation.

Bear in mind It's utterly ridiculous for two unmarried people to commit adultery.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 08:10:46

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far?

No different than adultery.  As males, we cross that line when we allow our thoughts to consider and ponder a woman's beauty, more so, her body, that may be well favored by God. As males we cannot allow ourselves to think upon a woman, with a desire to have her.
Job 31:1

  . "I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Even a maid, much more so of a woman who has a husband.  Men are totally 100% visual, to a fault~we must control our eyes first and foremost, which put the thought process into motion, which cause men to sin in this respect.   So it starts with ruling one's spirit, by which he worship God with, which God sees and knows better than we do ourselves. We go too far when we do not first begin to rule our spirits, which allows us to controls our eyes, which will not allow such things into our hearts a ruling seat.

This is part of Jobs speech of extreme depression. Please, read more than one verse before building a doctrine on it, esp a doctrine oppressive to people such as our topic creator...

Context Context Context.

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32
Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far? I've had guy friends in the past who said they think about it all the time. However, if that were to occur for me, it would make me uncomfortable. Because I feel like would be degrading that woman in my mind.

Keep your mind on someone available and obtainable. Then go obtain her. When thinking of a woman sexually think of what living a life and having a family with her would be like. That will dissuade you from lusting after women who are unsuitable, and further encourage you to pursue those who are.

This is pretty much how things are supposed to happen. Be as confident as you can, and Godspeed and prayers.

Jesus says that lusting is wrong, even if the woman is single, she may not be the one you will marry, so you may be lusting after another mans future wife.

The advise to go and 'obtain' her leaves out the fact that she may not want to be 'obtained.'

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 01:24:24
Jesus says that lusting is wrong, even if the woman is single, she may not be the one you will marry, so you may be lusting after another mans future wife.

I hate to have to say this every time someone talks about lust, because most people should know, but lusting is wanting that which you cannot or should not have, especially if said thing is someone else's. It's thou shalt not covet'. It's not specifically sexual in any case in the bible.

This doubles down what I originally said. There isn't a distinction between words for woman and wife in Greek so you have to go by context. In the relevant section of Matt 5 the context indicates 'wife' three times.

'Another man's future wife' is pretty convoluted reasoning. Bearing in mind that lust applies to any desire, not just sex, you're saying something akin to 'don't look at a new car because that could be someone else's new car in the future'.  It's simply not sensible...

QuoteThe advise to go and 'obtain' her leaves out the fact that she may not want to be 'obtained.'

If she does not want him she is functionally unobtainable and he should move on to someone else. The point is to focus his drive to finding a woman who he can start a family with. That's why the drive exists. So long as it's being properly used to that end it is right.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 04:33:13

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 01:24:24
Jesus says that lusting is wrong, even if the woman is single, she may not be the one you will marry, so you may be lusting after another mans future wife.

I hate to have to say this every time someone talks about lust, because most people should know, but lusting is wanting that which you cannot or should not have, especially if said thing is someone else's. It's thou shalt not covet'. It's not specifically sexual in any case in the bible.

This doubles down what I originally said. There isn't a distinction between words for woman and wife in Greek so you have to go by context. In the relevant section of Matt 5 the context indicates 'wife' three times.

'Another man's future wife' is pretty convoluted reasoning. Bearing in mind that lust applies to any desire, not just sex, you're saying something akin to 'don't look at a new car because that could be someone else's new car in the future'.  It's simply not sensible...

QuoteThe advise to go and 'obtain' her leaves out the fact that she may not want to be 'obtained.'

If she does not want him she is functionally unobtainable and he should move on to someone else. The point is to focus his drive to finding a woman who he can start a family with. That's why the drive exists. So long as it's being properly used to that end it is right.

Looking at a women in lust is wanting and desiring her.  Until you are married to her she is not yours to have or desire or look at in a sexual way.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 - 22:21:44

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 08:10:46

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far?

No different than adultery.  As males, we cross that line when we allow our thoughts to consider and ponder a woman's beauty, more so, her body, that may be well favored by God. As males we cannot allow ourselves to think upon a woman, with a desire to have her. Job 31:1. "I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"Even a maid, much more so of a woman who has a husband.  Men are totally 100% visual, to a fault~we must control our eyes first and foremost, which put the thought process into motion, which cause men to sin in this respect.   So it starts with ruling one's spirit, by which he worship God with, which God sees and knows better than we do ourselves. We go too far when we do not first begin to rule our spirits, which allows us to controls our eyes, which will not allow such things into our hearts a ruling seat.

This is part of Jobs speech of extreme depression. Please, read more than one verse before building a doctrine on it, esp a doctrine oppressive to people such as our topic creator... Context Context Context.

You make no sense. just as you do in your other post that you have posted today already, which I have read this morning.  What do you mean by saying that Job was speaking under depression, and extreme at that?  Sir, not lusting after even single maids, is far from being oppressive to the minds of the righteous.  Ruling our spirits is not oppressive as you may think, but that which is well pleasing in God sight, and without which, no man has a rightful claim of being in possession of eternal life.  But is badly deceived.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 - 22:21:44

Quote from: Alan on Sun Mar 08, 2015 - 07:42:45
Christ said that lusting to that extreme is akin to adultery. Allowing our minds to be filled with these kinds of thoughts is certainly unhealthy and can only lead to temptation.

Bear in mind It's utterly ridiculous for two unmarried people to commit adultery.

I don't believe that was what Christ was proposing in Matt 5 27-28, otherwise it would be acceptable for the unmarried to engage in sex, which of course it is not.

Matt 5-29 is important to this thread for it's the eye that leads to the lustful attitude that the hand displays.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 - 22:21:44Bear in mind It's utterly ridiculous for two unmarried people to commit adultery.

They can commit fornication, which is just as guilty as adultery.  And we might add this:  a single man, or woman, can commit adultery by lusting in their heart toward a married person. Your point used is useless, and was unnecessary to even be mentioned  by you, it served no profit.

Job must have understood that lusting after young women was one of his weaknesses, which is why he made that declaration, and good for him.

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. -Mat. 5:27,28



The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. -Luk. 6:45


do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.  -Phl. 4:6-8

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 05:26:22
Looking at a women in lust is wanting and desiring her.  Until you are married to her she is not yours to have or desire or look at in a sexual way.

This is first of all not what Jesus is saying here (nor any part of scripture), and second of all and extremely unrealistic millstone to put on the necks of young men. If someone wants something they can have it isn't and cannot be lust. When I'm hungry I cannot lust after a pizza that I'm entirely capable of making and having.

What happens scripturally when two young unmarrieds have each other is that he is fined and they are forced to stay together for the rest of their lives. It's not sin, but it has a specific consequence.  This makes premarital sex a very serious thing but not evil.

What happens in christianesque culture when two young unmarrieds have sex (if it's not swept under the rug and ignored entirely) is very often that they are scolded or even split up. The cultures reaction to sex is evil, the outcome of them being split is against scripture and evil.

It's a good thing for a man to want a woman, to get engaged to her, and to marry her. Sexual attraction is part of that and in the context of it leading to marriage is a good thing. So much so that if there is no such attraction they probably shouldn't get married.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 06:07:11
You make no sense. just as you do in your other post that you have posted today already, which I have read this morning.  What do you mean by saying that Job was speaking under depression, and extreme at that?

29 I am a brother <-brotherhood is a good thing

to dragons, and a companion to owls. <- but to Job right now it's bad

30 My skin <-good thing
is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat. <- but to Job right now it's bad

31 My harp <- music is good
also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep. <-but right now is an expression of his sadness.

This all seems to indicate a rather extreme depression here and is bemoaning how all good things are for him evil. He's still in that train of thought pretty much till verse 31:4, the Segway being verses 2 and 3.

Don't forget covenant and cutting are synonyms, he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

QuoteSir, not lusting after even single maids, is far from being oppressive to the minds of the righteous.  Ruling our spirits is not oppressive as you may think, but that which is well pleasing in God sight, and without which, no man has a rightful claim of being in possession of eternal life.  But is badly deceived.

Deceived is the man who makes themselves the arbiter of the law of God and not it's subject. This is the true meaning of 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. If you judge by scripture and the will of God you will be judged by God and through Christ redeemed. If you propose to usurp the judgement of God and call evil good or good evil you will be subject to judgement yourself. If you, because of your culture, call one who drinks wine, even most holy communion wine, evil then you are the evil one yourself.

In the same way if you tell a young Christian something that is good is evil you are just as the Pharisees, who add much to Gods law and draw people in to being a child of hell (Christ words) rather than draw them to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Be serious and vigilant when discussing sin. Call no evil good nor any good evil. Let scripture rule you, not you rule scripture.

Quote from: Alan on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 06:25:20
I don't believe that was what Christ was proposing in Matt 5 27-28, otherwise it would be acceptable for the unmarried to engage in sex, which of course it is not.

Matt 5-29 is important to this thread for it's the eye that leads to the lustful attitude that the hand displays.

There is more to scripture than Matt 5. There are rules for when unmarrieds have sex elsewhere.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 07:58:01
They can commit fornication, which is just as guilty as adultery.  And we might add this:  a single man, or woman, can commit adultery by lusting in their heart toward a married person.

They can commit fornication. But they do not if they stay together.

QuoteYour point used is useless, and was unnecessary to even be mentioned  by you, it served no profit.

My point serves exactly one use, and has exactly one profit. That a young unmarried man is not in sin to desire a young unmarried woman that is available and interested in him.

This may be only one profit, but it is a tremendous one. It is the difference between channelling sexual desire properly and sin. It is the difference between emasculating and shaming a young man and empowering him to grow up and pursue a family in Gods way under Gods design.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 11:09:23

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 05:26:22
Looking at a women in lust is wanting and desiring her.  Until you are married to her she is not yours to have or desire or look at in a sexual way.

This is first of all not what Jesus is saying here (nor any part of scripture), and second of all and extremely unrealistic millstone to put on the necks of young men. If someone wants something they can have it isn't and cannot be lust. When I'm hungry I cannot lust after a pizza that I'm entirely capable of making and having.

What happens scripturally when two young unmarrieds have each other is that he is fined and they are forced to stay together for the rest of their lives. It's not sin, but it has a specific consequence.  This makes premarital sex a very serious thing but not evil.

What happens in christianesque culture when two young unmarrieds have sex (if it's not swept under the rug and ignored entirely) is very often that they are scolded or even split up. The cultures reaction to sex is evil, the outcome of them being split is against scripture and evil.

It's a good thing for a man to want a woman, to get engaged to her, and to marry her. Sexual attraction is part of that and in the context of it leading to marriage is a good thing. So much so that if there is no such attraction they probably shouldn't get married.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 06:07:11
You make no sense. just as you do in your other post that you have posted today already, which I have read this morning.  What do you mean by saying that Job was speaking under depression, and extreme at that?

29 I am a brother <-brotherhood is a good thing

to dragons, and a companion to owls. <- but to Job right now it's bad

30 My skin <-good thing
is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat. <- but to Job right now it's bad

31 My harp <- music is good
also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep. <-but right now is an expression of his sadness.

This all seems to indicate a rather extreme depression here and is bemoaning how all good things are for him evil. He's still in that train of thought pretty much till verse 31:4, the Segway being verses 2 and 3.

Don't forget covenant and cutting are synonyms, he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

QuoteSir, not lusting after even single maids, is far from being oppressive to the minds of the righteous.  Ruling our spirits is not oppressive as you may think, but that which is well pleasing in God sight, and without which, no man has a rightful claim of being in possession of eternal life.  But is badly deceived.

Deceived is the man who makes themselves the arbiter of the law of God and not it's subject. This is the true meaning of 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. If you judge by scripture and the will of God you will be judged by God and through Christ redeemed. If you propose to usurp the judgement of God and call evil good or good evil you will be subject to judgement yourself. If you, because of your culture, call one who drinks wine, even most holy communion wine, evil then you are the evil one yourself.

In the same way if you tell a young Christian something that is good is evil you are just as the Pharisees, who add much to Gods law and draw people in to being a child of hell (Christ words) rather than draw them to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Be serious and vigilant when discussing sin. Call no evil good nor any good evil. Let scripture rule you, not you rule scripture.

Quote from: Alan on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 06:25:20
I don't believe that was what Christ was proposing in Matt 5 27-28, otherwise it would be acceptable for the unmarried to engage in sex, which of course it is not.

Matt 5-29 is important to this thread for it's the eye that leads to the lustful attitude that the hand displays.

There is more to scripture than Matt 5. There are rules for when unmarrieds have sex elsewhere.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 07:58:01
They can commit fornication, which is just as guilty as adultery.  And we might add this:  a single man, or woman, can commit adultery by lusting in their heart toward a married person.

They can commit fornication. But they do not if they stay together.

QuoteYour point used is useless, and was unnecessary to even be mentioned  by you, it served no profit.

My point serves exactly one use, and has exactly one profit. That a young unmarried man is not in sin to desire a young unmarried woman that is available and interested in him.

This may be only one profit, but it is a tremendous one. It is the difference between channelling sexual desire properly and sin. It is the difference between emasculating and shaming a young man and empowering him to grow up and pursue a family in Gods way under Gods design.

Lusting after a single woman who you may not even marry isnt right, and whatever you may think, unmarried people are forbidden from sex before marriage. Yes it is a sin. If they have sex, even if they later marry, it will have adversely affected that marriage right from the word go.IF they dont go on to marry, they have both had sex with someone else's spouse.   
Yes there needs to be an attraction if you marry someone, but that is different from imagining sex with a girl or lusting after her when you are not married to her.

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:08:00

Lusting after a single woman who you may not even marry isnt right, and whatever you may think, unmarried people are forbidden from sex before marriage. Yes it is a sin. If they have sex, even if they later marry, it will have adversely affected that marriage right from the word go.IF they dont go on to marry, they have both had sex with someone else's spouse.   
Yes there needs to be an attraction if you marry someone, but that is different from imagining sex with a girl or lusting after her when you are not married to her.

Are you prepared to go into detail with scripture on this? Chapter and verse with exposition, context, and analysis? Point by point et all?

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:49:35

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:08:00

Lusting after a single woman who you may not even marry isnt right, and whatever you may think, unmarried people are forbidden from sex before marriage. Yes it is a sin. If they have sex, even if they later marry, it will have adversely affected that marriage right from the word go.IF they dont go on to marry, they have both had sex with someone else's spouse.   
Yes there needs to be an attraction if you marry someone, but that is different from imagining sex with a girl or lusting after her when you are not married to her.

Are you prepared to go into detail with scripture on this? Chapter and verse with exposition, context, and analysis? Point by point et all?

Try this.
Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

There are still couples who dont have sex with each other till they are married, because they KNOW its a sin, and that it will have consequences. 

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:59:28

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:49:35

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 12:08:00

Lusting after a single woman who you may not even marry isnt right, and whatever you may think, unmarried people are forbidden from sex before marriage. Yes it is a sin. If they have sex, even if they later marry, it will have adversely affected that marriage right from the word go.IF they dont go on to marry, they have both had sex with someone else's spouse.   
Yes there needs to be an attraction if you marry someone, but that is different from imagining sex with a girl or lusting after her when you are not married to her.

Are you prepared to go into detail with scripture on this? Chapter and verse with exposition, context, and analysis? Point by point et all?

Try this.
Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

Ok, first, don't laundry list random individual verses, it kills context is is bad for discussion in general. I will respond to one verse at a time, and posit at most one myself.

Before I even address 1 Cor 7 though I'm going to actively point out that it literally says nothing about the unmarried until verse 7. You've quoted a verse that says nothing about your point at all and in no way contradicts mine...

Now, 1 Corinthians 7:2 is dealing with an issue in Corinth that the Corinthians specifically asked Paul about.

QuoteNow concerning the things whereof you wrote to me:

Considering the city they're in in the context of the letter they probably wrote him about 'Corinthicizing' which nowdays means general sexual immorality but it has specific connotations of wife sharing and temple prostitution.

Mind, we don't have the actual letter, so I'll admit that's speculation. But it's by far the best speculation we have, so if you dismiss it on that basis whatever you propose he's talking about is out the window as well.

In that context the odd plural on fornication and the 'to avoid' in italics. Adding 'to avoid' is added to the text which is a far more material change than KJV translators ordinarily do (yeah Easter, but they're very good on the whole). They don't have the context for the verse and are trying to fill it in however they can. The puncuation and verse break additions also muddy this verse probably more than any other in scripture.

Regardless if the question is 'can we share women like everyone else in the city does' the answer of ' let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband' is extremely apt.

What any of this has to do with unmarried people is up to you to try to draw out of the text. I know scripture, possibly (from your responses) quite a lot more intimately than you.  This has to be a conversation of exposition and discussion and the nature of Gods love and law and his consistently. Even an atheist can pull verses they think happen to support them. I want to talk to someone who Knows the living Logos and the breath of life in scripture.



Ill counterpoint with this:

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

This is what the bible says about premarital sex. I don't have to play with words or appeal to generalizations. It's right there. And it's there for a very good reason:

Right now when you say 'premarital sex is a sin' and you couple that with the idea that if you sin you just have to ask for forgiveness and it's all done you've created the damnable situation where two unmarried can sleep together, repent, and abandon each other. Weather you like that result or not this is what happens all over christiandom under the set of rules you created. They may be ashamed of what they did, but they're still broken. It leaves an incredible door open to ruin women that is walked through constantly.

With this, there is no sin or even real shame, but there are real, tangible repercussions and responsibilities that go with premarital sex. He has to take care of her, forever.

So the thought process isn't 'its sin (which frankly few Christians trouble themselves to really understand) and bad but I want too and temptation is hard. It's something much, much more concrete (if I do this I have to live with her\him forever) that will very much give the youth in question the tools to shut down their desire very hard. Or act on it and be happy together if that's the case.

This is why premarital sex being an obligation rather than a sin is in scripture. This is why it's rampantly destructive to waive it off as sin (which many don't understand the real repercussions of) and then move on to ignore what the bible actually says on the topic.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 11:09:23Don't forget covenant and cutting are synonyms, he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

It's amazing the length men will go to make the scriptures say what they desire them to say, in order to support their position.  Job's words are these
 

QuoteJob 31:1~"I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Job made a covenant with his EYES, NOT because he was depressed, but because he DID NOT want such things to take his heart away from his God! Our eyes are an inlet to our hearts, where lust is conceived, and desired and acted upon, if allowed in and left unchecked, and NOT rooted out at the first motion of it.

"WHY then should I think upon a maid"~ of corrupting and defiling her, since he had made a covenant with his eyes, and this would be a breach of that covenant: and therefore, besides the sin of lusting after her, or of corrupting her, he would be a covenant breaker, and so his sin would be an aggravated one: or, he made a covenant with his eyes, to prevent any impure thoughts, desires, and inclinations in him; for  as we have said, the eye affects the heart, and stirs up lust in it, and excites unclean thoughts and unchaste desires: this shows that the thought of sin is sin; that fornication was reckoned a sin before the law of Moses; and that Job better understood the spirituality of the law than the Pharisees did in the time of Christ, and had the same notion of lust in the heart being fornication and adultery as he had; and that good men are not without temptation to sin, both from within and from without; and therefore should carefully shun all appearances of evil, and whatsoever leads unto it, and take every necessary precaution to guard against it. 

To say, as you did above:

Quote he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

Are twisting scriptures.  You even said this:

QuoteThis all seems to indicate a rather extreme depression here and is bemoaning how all good things are for him evil.

It is NOT a good thing for married men to think upon young maids, or any women!  It is WICKED for godly men, who are married to think upon other women.  Even the unmarried, when they begin to burn, then it is time to marry, for it is better to marry, than to burn. 

QuoteDeceived is the man who makes themselves the arbiter of the law of God and not it's subject. This is the true meaning of 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. If you judge by scripture and the will of God you will be judged by God and through Christ redeemed. If you propose to usurp the judgement of God and call evil good or good evil you will be subject to judgement yourself. If you, because of your culture, call one who drinks wine, even most holy communion wine, evil then you are the evil one yourself.

No one is judging another when we call evil, evil. 

QuoteIn the same way if you tell a young Christian something that is good is evil you are just as the Pharisees, who add much to Gods law and draw people in to being a child of hell (Christ words) rather than draw them to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Be serious and vigilant when discussing sin. Call no evil good nor any good evil. Let scripture rule you, not you rule scripture.

Even godly men and women who are unmarried must control all lust, and avoid all things that stir up lust that is in their members.  Much more so, those that are married.

Quote"WHY then should I think upon a maid"~ of corrupting and defiling her,

The italicized part is not actually in scripture.

QuoteIt is NOT a good thing for married men to think upon young maids, or any women!  It is WICKED for godly men, who are married to think upon other women.  Even the unmarried, when they begin to burn, then it is time to marry, for it is better to marry, than to burn. 

Are you going to pull a Tretulian here and say that marriage is just barely better than burning in hell-fire for all eternity. Because that line of thinking has been done since 200 and it is so anti-scriptural it drives me nuts. Modern opinion of marriage seems to think that's how it actually is.

Anyway Job lived, to quote Dryden:
"In pious times, ere priest-craft did begin,
Before polygamy was made a sin;
When man, on many, multipli'd his kind,
Ere one to one was cursedly confin'd:
When Nature prompted, and no Law deni'd
Promiscuous use of concubine and bride;

So no, him thinking of a maid would not have been a sin.

Context! Context! Context!

QuoteNo one is judging another when we call evil, evil. 

You're judging the law when you feel it is your right to determine what is evil.

QuoteEven godly men and women who are unmarried must control all lust, and avoid all things that stir up lust that is in their members.  Much more so, those that are married.

All men must control lust, but let's not constrain lust to sex here, lusting for a certain vehicle, job, house, any of that must be controlled.

And as a final note solid hermeneutics are ever going to be twisting scripture. Failing to use hermeneutics is.

Quote from: Red Baker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 15:32:23

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 11:09:23Don't forget covenant and cutting are synonyms, he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

It's amazing the length men will go to make the scriptures say what they desire them to say, in order to support their position.  Job's words are these
 

QuoteJob 31:1~"I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Job made a covenant with his EYES, NOT because he was depressed, but because he DID NOT want such things to take his heart away from his God! Our eyes are an inlet to our hearts, where lust is conceived, and desired and acted upon, if allowed in and left unchecked, and NOT rooted out at the first motion of it.

"WHY then should I think upon a maid"~ of corrupting and defiling her, since he had made a covenant with his eyes, and this would be a breach of that covenant: and therefore, besides the sin of lusting after her, or of corrupting her, he would be a covenant breaker, and so his sin would be an aggravated one: or, he made a covenant with his eyes, to prevent any impure thoughts, desires, and inclinations in him; for  as we have said, the eye affects the heart, and stirs up lust in it, and excites unclean thoughts and unchaste desires: this shows that the thought of sin is sin; that fornication was reckoned a sin before the law of Moses; and that Job better understood the spirituality of the law than the Pharisees did in the time of Christ, and had the same notion of lust in the heart being fornication and adultery as he had; and that good men are not without temptation to sin, both from within and from without; and therefore should carefully shun all appearances of evil, and whatsoever leads unto it, and take every necessary precaution to guard against it. 

To say, as you did above:

Quote he's so depressed even the thought of a young woman is bad to him.

Are twisting scriptures.  You even said this:

QuoteThis all seems to indicate a rather extreme depression here and is bemoaning how all good things are for him evil.

It is NOT a good thing for married men to think upon young maids, or any women!  It is WICKED for godly men, who are married to think upon other women.  Even the unmarried, when they begin to burn, then it is time to marry, for it is better to marry, than to burn. 

QuoteDeceived is the man who makes themselves the arbiter of the law of God and not it's subject. This is the true meaning of 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. If you judge by scripture and the will of God you will be judged by God and through Christ redeemed. If you propose to usurp the judgement of God and call evil good or good evil you will be subject to judgement yourself. If you, because of your culture, call one who drinks wine, even most holy communion wine, evil then you are the evil one yourself.

No one is judging another when we call evil, evil. 

QuoteIn the same way if you tell a young Christian something that is good is evil you are just as the Pharisees, who add much to Gods law and draw people in to being a child of hell (Christ words) rather than draw them to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Be serious and vigilant when discussing sin. Call no evil good nor any good evil. Let scripture rule you, not you rule scripture.

Even godly men and women who are unmarried must control all lust, and avoid all things that stir up lust that is in their members.  Much more so, those that are married.

Thank God for godly men whose desire is to keep their eyes pure and not sin sexually outside marriage. I am very blessed to be married to a man like that as well. 

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 - 15:51:39The italicized part is not actually in scripture.

WHO said they were?  Did I say they were were?  No~the whole scriptures read like this from my KJV bible:

Job 31:1~"I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

The scriptures that follow Job 31:1 are sobering, and help us to see another reason why Job made this holy and good covenant with his eyes: A covenant that I have made and so will every godly man, if he does not, then he is not sincere in his faith of confessing Jesus Christ~but has no more than the faith of devils.

QuoteJob 31:2-12~"For what portion of God is there from above? and what inheritance of the Almighty from on high?  Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?  Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?  If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;  Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.  If my step hath turned out of the way, and mine heart walked after mine eyes, and if any blot hath cleaved to mine hands;  Then let me sow, and let another eat; yea, let my offspring be rooted out.  If mine heart have been deceived by a woman, or if I have laid wait at my neighbour's door;  Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her.  For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges.  For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

QuoteAre you going to pull a Tretulian here and say that marriage is just barely better than burning in hell-fire for all eternity.

Do not use such a logical  fallacy with me, it does not work. We are not discussing the nature of marriage,  but this topic:

QuoteAs a guy, how does one know if their mind goes too far seeing females?

This such debating may work on young minds and stop them from exposing corruption of scriptures, but it will not work on one that is an elder in the faith.

Quote Because that line of thinking has been done since 200 and it is so anti-scriptural it drives me nuts.

Well sir, my thinking has been here at least since Job, and by the grace of God, we are not leaving, but will stand fast in the scriptures~so help us God.

Quote Modern opinion of marriage seems to think that's how it actually is.

Modern opinion? Of keeping one's self pure for their spouse?  That's the only marriage that God honors. That's the only bride that Jesus takes delight in~spiritual fornication and adultery is an abomination that he despises, and WILL MAKE DESOLATE in His time.

QuoteAnyway Job lived, to quote Dryden:
"In pious times, ere priest-craft did begin,
Before polygamy was made a sin;
When man, on many, multipli'd his kind,
Ere one to one was cursedly confin'd:
When Nature prompted, and no Law deni'd
Promiscuous use of concubine and bride;

So no, him thinking of a maid would not have been a sin.

Instead of quoting Dryden, try to stay with the mind of God from his word!  "IF" then WHY did he make that covenant, other than your corrupt view of being depressed?  I am asking this base upon your next words?

QuoteContext! Context! Context!

I love context as much as the next man, and know that it "IS" what drives the interpretation for God's children. The scriptures quoted above proves the MAIN reason WHY Job made this holy covenant...again as you said~Context! Context! Context!

QuoteJob 31:2-12~"For what portion of God is there from above? and what inheritance of the Almighty from on high?  Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?  Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?  If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;  Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.  If my step hath turned out of the way, and mine heart walked after mine eyes, and if any blot hath cleaved to mine hands;  Then let me sow, and let another eat; yea, let my offspring be rooted out.  If mine heart have been deceived by a woman, or if I have laid wait at my neighbour's door;  Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her.  For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges.  For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

QuoteWHO said they were?  Did I say they were were?  No~the whole scriptures read like this from my KJV bible:

It seems quite clear you implied it was as good as in there. However these are your inflections into the passages, not what they actually say.

QuoteThe scriptures that follow Job 31:1 are sobering, and help us to see another reason why Job made this holy and good covenant with his eyes: A covenant that I have made and so will every godly man, if he does not, then he is not sincere in his faith of confessing Jesus Christ~but has no more than the faith of devils.

It's the scriptures that precede it that I'm interested in though. Bear in mind chapter and verse are latter additions for referencing like italics are for readability. No question that chapter and verse in the OT is much older, but still not original. Verses 2, 3, and 4 read like transitions to the next section (Job telling of his righteousness)  thus 31:1 seems wed closer to the previous verses than the later IMO.

QuoteDo not use such a logical  fallacy with me, it does not work. We are not discussing the nature of marriage,  but this topic:

QuoteAs a guy, how does one know if their mind goes too far seeing females?

Likening your to other errors of the faith isn't a fallacy.

QuoteThis such debating may work on young minds and stop them from exposing corruption of scriptures, but it will not work on one that is an elder in the faith.

While I may say there are problems with some elements of translation, I would not ever for one moment say scriptures are corrupted. I have deep faith that there is not corruption of scripture. That seems to be rather another topic though.

Perhaps the law of scripture is not enough for you and you feel the need to add this and that to it to fix it's corruptions, but I will take it as it stands.

Quote

Quote Because that line of thinking has been done since 200 and it is so anti-scriptural it drives me nuts.

Well sir, my thinking has been here at least since Job, and by the grace of God, we are not leaving, but will stand fast in the scriptures~so help us God.

Yes, there have always been ascetics. I'm not sure you have any particular line of thinking though, other than to lean very heavily on what is after a verse without consideration for what is before.

Quote Modern opinion of marriage seems to think that's how it actually is.

QuoteModern opinion? Of keeping one's self pure for their spouse?  That's the only marriage that God honors. That's the only bride that Jesus takes delight in~spiritual fornication and adultery is an abomination that he despises, and WILL MAKE DESOLATE in His time.

See, you handle those quotes how you handle scripture. Break it up and miss the point. You took three sentences in one paragraph as if they where three individual paragraphs.

Modern opinion is that marriage is like hell, it's constantly scoffed and berated in the public eye. In context that is clearly what I'm saying.

QuoteAnyway Job lived, to quote Dryden:
"In pious times, ere priest-craft did begin,
Before polygamy was made a sin;
When man, on many, multipli'd his kind,
Ere one to one was cursedly confin'd:
When Nature prompted, and no Law deni'd
Promiscuous use of concubine and bride;

So no, him thinking of a maid would not have been a sin.

QuoteInstead of quoting Dryden, try to stay with the mind of God from his word!  "IF" then WHY did he make that covenant, other than your corrupt view of being depressed?  I am asking this base upon your next words?

I quote Dryden because I appreciate beauty. My use of the chapter has been mentioned before, and deals with alternate renderings of the root words. That he cut off the sight of his own eyes, not literally, but everything was dark to him. If not himself who do you propose he made this covenant with? It says nothing of a covenant with God. The preceeding is his music, his skin, his brothers, his bowels. HE made a covenant with HIS eyes, it's internal, not with God.

Until verse 2 this is a monologue.

QuoteI love context as much as the next man, and know that it "IS" what drives the interpretation for God's children. The scriptures quoted above proves the MAIN reason WHY Job made this holy covenant...again as you said~Context! Context! Context!

This covenant has now been promoted to a holy covenant? Shall I get pen and ink and add these words to my bible manually?

Again, this is Job, possibly in a time before Abraham and likely before Moses, we're talking about, not some random Christian after the council of Trent or the Lanterndian council who is forbidden to have wives or concubines. What virtue is it for him not to look on a maid?

And even if your rendering is the one true one and he made a holy covenant with God with his eyes (writing with your addition like that doesn't even flow properly) to never look at a virgin what does it accomplish you? It does nothing to deal with the verses in Matthew nor does it establish a law of action for others just by Job making said covenant, nor does it any thing to refute my conclusion, that an unmarried man ought to desire an available unmarried woman, and falls into neither adultery nor lust by thinking of her sexually.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 - 23:16:57

QuoteWHO said they were?  Did I say they were were?  No~the whole scriptures read like this from my KJV bible:

It seems quite clear you implied it was as good as in there. However these are your inflections into the passages, not what they actually say.

QuoteThe scriptures that follow Job 31:1 are sobering, and help us to see another reason why Job made this holy and good covenant with his eyes: A covenant that I have made and so will every godly man, if he does not, then he is not sincere in his faith of confessing Jesus Christ~but has no more than the faith of devils.

It's the scriptures that precede it that I'm interested in though. Bear in mind chapter and verse are latter additions for referencing like italics are for readability. No question that chapter and verse in the OT is much older, but still not original. Verses 2, 3, and 4 read like transitions to the next section (Job telling of his righteousness)  thus 31:1 seems wed closer to the previous verses than the later IMO.

QuoteDo not use such a logical  fallacy with me, it does not work. We are not discussing the nature of marriage,  but this topic:

QuoteAs a guy, how does one know if their mind goes too far seeing females?

Likening your to other errors of the faith isn't a fallacy.

QuoteThis such debating may work on young minds and stop them from exposing corruption of scriptures, but it will not work on one that is an elder in the faith.

While I may say there are problems with some elements of translation, I would not ever for one moment say scriptures are corrupted. I have deep faith that there is not corruption of scripture. That seems to be rather another topic though.

Perhaps the law of scripture is not enough for you and you feel the need to add this and that to it to fix it's corruptions, but I will take it as it stands.

Quote

Quote Because that line of thinking has been done since 200 and it is so anti-scriptural it drives me nuts.

Well sir, my thinking has been here at least since Job, and by the grace of God, we are not leaving, but will stand fast in the scriptures~so help us God.

Yes, there have always been ascetics. I'm not sure you have any particular line of thinking though, other than to lean very heavily on what is after a verse without consideration for what is before.

Quote Modern opinion of marriage seems to think that's how it actually is.

QuoteModern opinion? Of keeping one's self pure for their spouse?  That's the only marriage that God honors. That's the only bride that Jesus takes delight in~spiritual fornication and adultery is an abomination that he despises, and WILL MAKE DESOLATE in His time.

See, you handle those quotes how you handle scripture. Break it up and miss the point. You took three sentences in one paragraph as if they where three individual paragraphs.

Modern opinion is that marriage is like hell, it's constantly scoffed and berated in the public eye. In context that is clearly what I'm saying.

QuoteAnyway Job lived, to quote Dryden:
"In pious times, ere priest-craft did begin,
Before polygamy was made a sin;
When man, on many, multipli'd his kind,
Ere one to one was cursedly confin'd:
When Nature prompted, and no Law deni'd
Promiscuous use of concubine and bride;

So no, him thinking of a maid would not have been a sin.

QuoteInstead of quoting Dryden, try to stay with the mind of God from his word!  "IF" then WHY did he make that covenant, other than your corrupt view of being depressed?  I am asking this base upon your next words?

I quote Dryden because I appreciate beauty. My use of the chapter has been mentioned before, and deals with alternate renderings of the root words. That he cut off the sight of his own eyes, not literally, but everything was dark to him. If not himself who do you propose he made this covenant with? It says nothing of a covenant with God. The preceeding is his music, his skin, his brothers, his bowels. HE made a covenant with HIS eyes, it's internal, not with God.

Until verse 2 this is a monologue.

QuoteI love context as much as the next man, and know that it "IS" what drives the interpretation for God's children. The scriptures quoted above proves the MAIN reason WHY Job made this holy covenant...again as you said~Context! Context! Context!

This covenant has now been promoted to a holy covenant? Shall I get pen and ink and add these words to my bible manually?

Again, this is Job, possibly in a time before Abraham and likely before Moses, we're talking about, not some random Christian after the council of Trent or the Lanterndian council who is forbidden to have wives or concubines. What virtue is it for him not to look on a maid?

And even if your rendering is the one true one and he made a holy covenant with God with his eyes (writing with your addition like that doesn't even flow properly) to never look at a virgin what does it accomplish you? It does nothing to deal with the verses in Matthew nor does it establish a law of action for others just by Job making said covenant, nor does it any thing to refute my conclusion, that an unmarried man ought to desire an available unmarried woman, and falls into neither adultery nor lust by thinking of her sexually.

You should not be thinking of any women sexually unless she is your wife.You are twisting and ignoring scripture to justify your sin. You can desire to get to know a single woman with a view to dating her and possibly marrying her(if she is interested)but she is not yours to think of sexually. She may end up being another mans wife and you may end up being another womans husband. If she is not yet yours to have, then it is lusting and it is sin, and its troubling the lengths you are going to try and justify lusting after a woman. 
As for fornication(sex before marriage) it is condemned many times.

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Mar 26, 2015 - 01:01:30
You should not be thinking of any women sexually unless she is your wife.You are twisting and ignoring scripture to justify your sin. You can desire to get to know a single woman with a view to dating her and possibly marrying her(if she is interested)but she is not yours to think of sexually. She may end up being another mans wife and you may end up being another womans husband. If she is not yet yours to have, then it is lusting and it is sin, and its troubling the lengths you are going to try and justify lusting after a woman. 
As for fornication(sex before marriage) it is condemned many times.

I've been married for a decade, my concern on this topic is for my sons and for young men (and daughters and women) not really personal.

It is silly to consider what may be unless you know the future for certain. May we take time to deal with that assertion before moving on?

Lust is an important topic in scripture. It is pigeon holed as about sex regularly and that aspect of it is focused on to an unhealthy extent. But lust is rampant and pernicious in our consumerist culture in all aspects of life from food to work to goods.

Because lust is rendered, taught, and thought of as merely 'sexual desire' it's very rarely taught what proper and improper desires actually are. That which you can justly have is not lust, that which you cannot is. Wanting someone else's job may well be lust, but wanting an open job you're qualified for is not. You would not neglect to apply for or think about having such a job because 'it may end up being someone else's'.

This is the same as that. Understand?

Quote from: crf_stewarje on Sun Feb 15, 2015 - 17:50:32
Is thinking about having sex with an attractive female going too far? I've had guy friends in the past who said they think about it all the time. However, if that were to occur for me, it would make me uncomfortable. Because I feel like would be degrading that woman in my mind.

Yes, it i going to far.  The Bible tells us:

"But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." - James 1:14-15

Sexually immoral thoughts cause a desire for sexual immorality, which leads to sexual immorality.  The Bible tells us to avoid sexual immorality:

"18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin[e] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."  1 Cor 6:18-20

Quote from: JGPS100 on Thu Mar 26, 2015 - 19:16:02

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Mar 26, 2015 - 01:01:30
You should not be thinking of any women sexually unless she is your wife.You are twisting and ignoring scripture to justify your sin. You can desire to get to know a single woman with a view to dating her and possibly marrying her(if she is interested)but she is not yours to think of sexually. She may end up being another mans wife and you may end up being another womans husband. If she is not yet yours to have, then it is lusting and it is sin, and its troubling the lengths you are going to try and justify lusting after a woman. 
As for fornication(sex before marriage) it is condemned many times.

I've been married for a decade, my concern on this topic is for my sons and for young men (and daughters and women) not really personal.

It is silly to consider what may be unless you know the future for certain. May we take time to deal with that assertion before moving on?

Lust is an important topic in scripture. It is pigeon holed as about sex regularly and that aspect of it is focused on to an unhealthy extent. But lust is rampant and pernicious in our consumerist culture in all aspects of life from food to work to goods.

Because lust is rendered, taught, and thought of as merely 'sexual desire' it's very rarely taught what proper and improper desires actually are. That which you can justly have is not lust, that which you cannot is. Wanting someone else's job may well be lust, but wanting an open job you're qualified for is not. You would not neglect to apply for or think about having such a job because 'it may end up being someone else's'.

This is the same as that. Understand?

I have been married for a total of 35 years. I have an adult son and 2 adult step sons and 2 brothers, so have had plenty of experience of the opposite sex. This thread is about sexual lust. Lusting after a woman or man who is not yours to lust over is never right, be they single, married, divorced or widowed.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 06:49:55

I have been married for a total of 35 years. I have an adult son and 2 adult step sons and 2 brothers, so have had plenty of experience of the opposite sex. This thread is about sexual lust. Lusting after a woman or man who is not yours to lust over is never right, be they single, married, divorced or widowed.

This thread is about lust, this is why it's important for people to understand what lust is. If you have no interest in what scripture says on the mater just say so and go on with your cultural convictions. Just don't confuse them with what Chris to or scripture teaches.

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 14:18:38

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 06:49:55

I have been married for a total of 35 years. I have an adult son and 2 adult step sons and 2 brothers, so have had plenty of experience of the opposite sex. This thread is about sexual lust. Lusting after a woman or man who is not yours to lust over is never right, be they single, married, divorced or widowed.

This thread is about lust, this is why it's important for people to understand what lust is. If you have no interest in what scripture says on the mater just say so and go on with your cultural convictions. Just don't confuse them with what Chris to or scripture teaches.

This thread is specifically about men looking at females and how far should they go.
God is very specific on what men(and women actually) should and shouldnt do in this area. To try and justify men looking and lusting after women they arent married to is very troubling. 

1 Timothy 5:1-2
Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.

This is it to me, in short. To me sexual purity is a matter of avoiding self-degradation. It's not something I do for anyone else, other than God. To give your body sexually (i.e. joining) to someone else is a big deal and not something to be taken lightly--offered to a woman who is loving, committed, faithful. To look at a woman lustfully is to degrade yourself. 1 corinthians 6:8

Quote from: Cally on Sun Mar 29, 2015 - 23:07:39
1 Timothy 5:1-2Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity. This is it to me, in short. To me sexual purity is a matter of avoiding self-degradation. It's not something I do for anyone else, other than God. To give your body sexually (i.e. joining) to someone else is a big deal and not something to be taken lightly--offered to a woman who is loving, committed, faithful. To look at a woman lustfully is to degrade yourself. 1 corinthians 6:8

God Almighty bless you my dear brother in the name of Jesus Christ.  As a child of God, I keep myself pure  (as much as possible) for God first and foremost...for it is with my spirit I worship him, and he knows me better than I know myself~and, of course he knows the end from the beginning.  He cannot be deceived, as we can.

Second, I owe this to my wife, which is connected with loving her as my own self, specially in sexually purity.  If I refuse to keep myself pure for my wife, then I should have no problem if other men bow down upon her. If then I do keep myself pure, than I would have a right to execute the proper judgment upon such an heinous sin.  With men, sexual purity begins with ruling one's spirit concerning his EYES.  With women, it begins with ruling one's spirit to please her God with putting on apparel that she knows should not stimulate the lust that dwells in all of us, particularly men, concerning such things.

I am a man, all man, and I knew from a very young age, that this thing God created call woman did something very special to me.  I could very easily be a Solomon, yet I also learned that such things will past quickly away, and serving and loving God had so much greater and fuller fulfillment than any women could possibly give to me, even as many as Solomon had. 

I believe that God allowed Solomon to have those wives so that he could write down in words under the inspiration of God, and give to us the conclusion of all matters (in including the love of a woman's body, that so many great men have fallen as a helpless prey to, only to cause them to root out all their increases, and for them to lose their honour and respect among their colleague) under heaven that may enter into in order for him to find what best for man under the whole heaven, in order for that man to be contended and live a fulfilling life, while living in this world.   

QuoteEcclesiastes 12:13,14~"13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Lustful thoughts are one of those secret things that only the Omniscient Eyes of the God of heaven, that can see such things!  Men must rule their hearts for their God, and in this manner can men take courage that God is well pleased with such spiritual mindedness, faith based, God honoring, men and women.  Those who do not from their hearts seek to put God upon the throne of their heart, are not his children, but children of the wicked one.  I am saying this, not based upon a period of time, that some good men fall into sin, but when considering that person's overall life , it must be one that keeps his heart with all diligence.   

QuoteProverbs 4:23~"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issue of life."

Your heart determines your life. This may be the most important proverb. The favor or grief in your life depends on ruling and training your heart. If you direct and instruct your heart with godly inputs, there is no limit to your potential success before God and men.

Every sin starts in your heart, and your character and speech reflect your heart. You can only pretend to be different than your heart for a short time, for it will quickly regain control and dictate your actions. Others know your heart by your words and choices.

You can keep your heart good, or you can let it become bad. You can be diligent in this project, or you can be lazy. God's children have an old man that tempts them to evil, but their new man calls them to godliness. Your heart must decide between the two often. Every person makes a series of choices each day

Think about an evil heart and how it affects the various issues of life. Sexual fantasizing will lead to filthiness, fornication, adultery, or defrauding your spouse, and shaming yourself before others, and rightly so~all because you allowed sinful thoughts in your heart. The same is true of all sins, that we allow to go unchecked.....  bitterness toward others, coveting things you do not have, pride, excess ambition, envy, and many others  sins like them, that you can add to the list.

QuoteAs a man, how does one know if their mind goes too far seeing females?

When you see it begins to tempt you, and at that point, ONE ALLOWS IT TO HAVE  A PLACE IN THEIR HEART, WITH A DESIRE TO TAKE DELIGHT IN IT in any measure whatsoever, even a small measure; many men think that a small measure would not be considered sin, but it IS.  Every sin starts small, and from there it very well and often does, get out of control, until one begins to pay a very serious, and painful payment for their foolishness, in allowing sin to find a sweet dwelling place in one's heart. 

I must stop, but my experience of age has taught me some things that would have saved me from many painful and hurtful chastisements from my heavenly Father, which at the present was not joyous, but indeed has yielded some (God can determine that, not I) peaceable fruit of righteousness, for which, we are very thankful for his loving correction of those whom he loves.

QuoteHebrews 12:6-10~"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.   If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness."

I love to hear from such godly men here. Its not easy to go against the flow when so many men today think nothing of looking at porn of all sorts or of staring and lusting after women, and women think nothing of wearing immodest clothes. However, thats what God expects us to do, to be different.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 14:25:50

Quote from: JGPS100 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 14:18:38

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Mar 28, 2015 - 06:49:55

I have been married for a total of 35 years. I have an adult son and 2 adult step sons and 2 brothers, so have had plenty of experience of the opposite sex. This thread is about sexual lust. Lusting after a woman or man who is not yours to lust over is never right, be they single, married, divorced or widowed.

This thread is about lust, this is why it's important for people to understand what lust is. If you have no interest in what scripture says on the mater just say so and go on with your cultural convictions. Just don't confuse them with what Chris to or scripture teaches.

This thread is specifically about men looking at females and how far should they go.
God is very specific on what men(and women actually) should and shouldnt do in this area. To try and justify men looking and lusting after women they arent married to is very troubling. 

No half so troubling as your assistance at ignoring the specific things the bible says... If you have no material rebuttal to actual content then just be done with the conversation. Dogmatism is nothing to scripture, and wearying.