Christian Forums

Quote from: Catholica on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 15:51:16

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 14:55:50

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 08:29:31
I feel like this poster's story is familiar...

a child who lives with their father, who is a bully and revengeful, a boyfriend who is wonderful,( but controlling--this part hasn't come up in these posts yet) and she left him for a time a few weeks ago, her not having her child due to working too much.

Oh dear hope its not the same lady, but I think you are right, if so we have already told her to leave her awful boyfriend several times.  She has omitted this time to tell us about the awful things her boyfriend does such as filming her at home to keep an eye on her, and also controlling her life as if she is in a prison. 

The first 2 times the child was a boy, and the last 2 times a girl.

As a moderator you should be able to know if it is by clicking on their IP address.  If it is the same person, then unless they are extremely technically savvy and connecting via the TOR network, all the user IDs should appear that have posted from that IP address.  That is typically a feature on forums like this one.

Her IP is unique, as most of our repeat customers are. 

Quote from: Alan on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 17:40:44

Quote from: Catholica on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 15:51:16

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 14:55:50

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Jul 23, 2015 - 08:29:31
I feel like this poster's story is familiar...

a child who lives with their father, who is a bully and revengeful, a boyfriend who is wonderful,( but controlling--this part hasn't come up in these posts yet) and she left him for a time a few weeks ago, her not having her child due to working too much.

Oh dear hope its not the same lady, but I think you are right, if so we have already told her to leave her awful boyfriend several times.  She has omitted this time to tell us about the awful things her boyfriend does such as filming her at home to keep an eye on her, and also controlling her life as if she is in a prison. 

The first 2 times the child was a boy, and the last 2 times a girl.

As a moderator you should be able to know if it is by clicking on their IP address.  If it is the same person, then unless they are extremely technically savvy and connecting via the TOR network, all the user IDs should appear that have posted from that IP address.  That is typically a feature on forums like this one.

Her IP is unique, as most of our repeat customers are. 

I've seen our notorious spammer on other forums where the location is automatically displayed.  He is probably using the TOR network. 

I doubt that the woman who started this thread is the same as the other women who have posted with similar circumstances.

Even so, I doubt that that other woman in particular would manipulate the computer to make it look at the IP level as if she were different.  She is just seeking attention and drama; she is not seeking to be malicious like our spammer is.

As a Christian I've learned to try to think the best of people until I know otherwise.  It is tiring on my spirit to hear these continual suspicions against women who come on this board with similar problems.  Rather than casting suspicions, let's just assume that they are different women with a common problem unless it is demonstrated otherwise. 

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:05:48
As a Christian I've learned to try to think the best of people until I know otherwise.

You aren't unique in this. Just for the record.  But, we are also called to be wise.

QuoteIt is tiring on my spirit to hear these continual suspicions against women who come on this board with similar problems. 
Rather than casting suspicions, let's just assume that they are different women with a common problem unless it is demonstrated otherwise.

And how would that be demonstrated?  What more are you looking for other than several stories with eerily similar situations...and they are NOT at all common, either.  A mother would commonly *have* her child.  I don't believe that many divorcing men are as vindictive as these posts make them sound, either...so I find that detail unique and repeated.

If it is the same woman, she is seeking to deceive the people here who have already given good and sound advice countless times!  She has been treated with kindness and given the benefit of the doubt. People have poured out their kindness, concern and compassion on her...and she keeps making new accounts, instead of just being authentic. I really grow tired of that.  All that I am asking is that she keep just ONE of her same names and stop trying to deceive us.

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:13:29

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:05:48
As a Christian I've learned to try to think the best of people until I know otherwise.

You aren't unique in this. Just for the record.  But, we are also called to be wise.

QuoteIt is tiring on my spirit to hear these continual suspicions against women who come on this board with similar problems. 
Rather than casting suspicions, let's just assume that they are different women with a common problem unless it is demonstrated otherwise.

And how would that be demonstrated?  What more are you looking for other than several stories with eerily similar situations...and they are NOT at all common, either.  A mother would commonly *have* her child.  I don't believe that many divorcing men are as vindictive as these posts make them sound, either...so I find that detail unique and repeated.

If it is the same woman, she is seeking to deceive the people here who have already given good and sound advice countless times!  She has been treated with kindness and given the benefit of the doubt. People have poured out their kindness, concern and compassion on her...and she keeps making new accounts, instead of just being authentic. I really grow tired of that.  All that I am asking is that she keep just ONE of her same names and stop trying to deceive us.

It would be demonstrated by her posting from the same IP address.

There are billions of people on earth and millions of vindictive husbands.  Its not a unique problem.

If you are tired of responding to posts like this one, then don't respond.  There is no reason to get worked up about it.  It is better to stay quiet and not cast suspicion than to cast suspicion and possibly be wrong.

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:38:07

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:13:29

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:05:48
As a Christian I've learned to try to think the best of people until I know otherwise.

You aren't unique in this. Just for the record.  But, we are also called to be wise.

QuoteIt is tiring on my spirit to hear these continual suspicions against women who come on this board with similar problems. 
Rather than casting suspicions, let's just assume that they are different women with a common problem unless it is demonstrated otherwise.

And how would that be demonstrated?  What more are you looking for other than several stories with eerily similar situations...and they are NOT at all common, either.  A mother would commonly *have* her child.  I don't believe that many divorcing men are as vindictive as these posts make them sound, either...so I find that detail unique and repeated.

If it is the same woman, she is seeking to deceive the people here who have already given good and sound advice countless times!  She has been treated with kindness and given the benefit of the doubt. People have poured out their kindness, concern and compassion on her...and she keeps making new accounts, instead of just being authentic. I really grow tired of that.  All that I am asking is that she keep just ONE of her same names and stop trying to deceive us.

It would be demonstrated by her posting from the same IP address.

That the common poster like you and I have zero access too...all we have are her very similar words.

QuoteThere are billions of people on earth and millions of vindictive husbands.  Its not a unique problem.

Her circumstance and story is unique. There is NO way there are 10 women out there with exactly the same story. 

QuoteIf you are tired of responding to posts like this one, then don't respond.

Same to you when you tire of seeing her asked if she has posted here before, I guess.

QuoteThere is no reason to get worked up about it.

Im not.

QuoteIt is better to stay quiet and not cast suspicion than to cast suspicion and possibly be wrong.

Oh brother.     I didn't ask to cast suspicion, but to see if I was about to toss pearls where the audience isn't valuing of them.  There is nothing wrong with that.  If you don't like it, feel free to put my posts on ignore.

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:38:07

It would be demonstrated by her posting from the same IP address.

It was not the same IP the last time that the member created a new profile and asked the same question, worded differently. In that case, she was confronted and came clean for creating numerous accounts, blaming the site for her inability to log into previous accounts. Don't know if this is the same user but certainly looks familiar, if it is not my apologies.

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:38:07

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:13:29

Quote from: Catholica on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 09:05:48
As a Christian I've learned to try to think the best of people until I know otherwise.

You aren't unique in this. Just for the record.  But, we are also called to be wise.

QuoteIt is tiring on my spirit to hear these continual suspicions against women who come on this board with similar problems. 
Rather than casting suspicions, let's just assume that they are different women with a common problem unless it is demonstrated otherwise.

And how would that be demonstrated?  What more are you looking for other than several stories with eerily similar situations...and they are NOT at all common, either.  A mother would commonly *have* her child.  I don't believe that many divorcing men are as vindictive as these posts make them sound, either...so I find that detail unique and repeated.

If it is the same woman, she is seeking to deceive the people here who have already given good and sound advice countless times!  She has been treated with kindness and given the benefit of the doubt. People have poured out their kindness, concern and compassion on her...and she keeps making new accounts, instead of just being authentic. I really grow tired of that.  All that I am asking is that she keep just ONE of her same names and stop trying to deceive us.

It would be demonstrated by her posting from the same IP address.

There are billions of people on earth and millions of vindictive husbands.  Its not a unique problem.

If you are tired of responding to posts like this one, then don't respond.  There is no reason to get worked up about it.  It is better to stay quiet and not cast suspicion than to cast suspicion and possibly be wrong.

Strange that its a woman in the same circumstances each time. All that changes is the sex of the child. We have all given good advise many times, but it hasnt been heeded. I think you are rather naive if you believe that everyone will use the same ip address especially as many people will use their computers/phones in different locations each day such as at work or home or travelling or visiting.  Its also apparently easy if you know how to use all sorts of different Ip's.

Quote from: minime5555 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 - 19:48:41
I am wondering if I should try to reconcile with my ex husband. We were married for 15 years and have one daughter who is 10.


We've been divorced for over a year now. And I am in a serious relationship - but feeling very guilty because my daughter continues to beg me to get back together with dad.

My ex is willing to reconcile if I get out of my current relationship, but he refuses therapy and is still very cold to me. He discovered through an online forum (on another site) that I had cheated on him while married. Since the divorce, he has tried to ruin me. Even threatened to press criminal charges against me for using his credit card...after filing divorce. It was accidental (something on file with the company)....but really RUINED me with all of our family and friends.

I didn't have an "affair" but I met my new love within weeks of filing divorce. My ex used this against me and told even my mother that I cheated. Not true - but he jumped to conclusions.  We had talked about divorce MANY times over the past few years...it was not new.  He was addicted to porn and was pretty cold to me...since 2010.

My ex is now offering to have me move back in etc...IF i leave my current relationship. I love my BF SO MUCH -- and I don't know how to be without him....but when I look at my daughter....I feel guilt.  I feel as if I have abandoned my daughter and ex. He's not dating anyone....right now..becuase he says he wants to work on us.  But, again -- won't go to a therapist because he says that I don't "tell the whole story".

What would you do?

These are Jesus's words in Mark 10,  11-12

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;

and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."


Luke 16,  18
"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he

who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."


John 14,  23-24
"If a man loves me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come

to him and make Our home with him.

He who does not love Me does not keep My words,


1 Corinthians 7,  10-11
To the married I give charge, not i but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband,

but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband,  and that the husband should

not divorce his wife.

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 15:29:26

Quote from: minime5555 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 - 19:48:41
I am wondering if I should try to reconcile with my ex husband. We were married for 15 years and have one daughter who is 10.


We've been divorced for over a year now. And I am in a serious relationship - but feeling very guilty because my daughter continues to beg me to get back together with dad.

My ex is willing to reconcile if I get out of my current relationship, but he refuses therapy and is still very cold to me. He discovered through an online forum (on another site) that I had cheated on him while married. Since the divorce, he has tried to ruin me. Even threatened to press criminal charges against me for using his credit card...after filing divorce. It was accidental (something on file with the company)....but really RUINED me with all of our family and friends.

I didn't have an "affair" but I met my new love within weeks of filing divorce. My ex used this against me and told even my mother that I cheated. Not true - but he jumped to conclusions.  We had talked about divorce MANY times over the past few years...it was not new.  He was addicted to porn and was pretty cold to me...since 2010.

My ex is now offering to have me move back in etc...IF i leave my current relationship. I love my BF SO MUCH -- and I don't know how to be without him....but when I look at my daughter....I feel guilt.  I feel as if I have abandoned my daughter and ex. He's not dating anyone....right now..becuase he says he wants to work on us.  But, again -- won't go to a therapist because he says that I don't "tell the whole story".

What would you do?

These are Jesus's words in Mark 10,  11-12

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;

and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."


Luke 16,  18
"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he

who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."


John 14,  23-24
"If a man loves me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come

to him and make Our home with him.

He who does not love Me does not keep My words,


1 Corinthians 7,  10-11
To the married I give charge, not i but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband,

but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband,  and that the husband should

not divorce his wife.

Matthew 19:9

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 17:24:28

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 15:29:26

Quote from: minime5555 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 - 19:48:41
I am wondering if I should try to reconcile with my ex husband. We were married for 15 years and have one daughter who is 10.


We've been divorced for over a year now. And I am in a serious relationship - but feeling very guilty because my daughter continues to beg me to get back together with dad.

My ex is willing to reconcile if I get out of my current relationship, but he refuses therapy and is still very cold to me. He discovered through an online forum (on another site) that I had cheated on him while married. Since the divorce, he has tried to ruin me. Even threatened to press criminal charges against me for using his credit card...after filing divorce. It was accidental (something on file with the company)....but really RUINED me with all of our family and friends.

I didn't have an "affair" but I met my new love within weeks of filing divorce. My ex used this against me and told even my mother that I cheated. Not true - but he jumped to conclusions.  We had talked about divorce MANY times over the past few years...it was not new.  He was addicted to porn and was pretty cold to me...since 2010.

My ex is now offering to have me move back in etc...IF i leave my current relationship. I love my BF SO MUCH -- and I don't know how to be without him....but when I look at my daughter....I feel guilt.  I feel as if I have abandoned my daughter and ex. He's not dating anyone....right now..becuase he says he wants to work on us.  But, again -- won't go to a therapist because he says that I don't "tell the whole story".

What would you do?

These are Jesus's words in Mark 10,  11-12

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;

and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."


Luke 16,  18
"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he

who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."


John 14,  23-24
"If a man loves me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come

to him and make Our home with him.

He who does not love Me does not keep My words,


1 Corinthians 7,  10-11
To the married I give charge, not i but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband,

but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband,  and that the husband should

not divorce his wife.

Matthew 19:9

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Is fornication (unchastity) the same as adultery?

fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 19:05:21

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 17:24:28

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 15:29:26

Quote from: minime5555 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 - 19:48:41
I am wondering if I should try to reconcile with my ex husband. We were married for 15 years and have one daughter who is 10.


We've been divorced for over a year now. And I am in a serious relationship - but feeling very guilty because my daughter continues to beg me to get back together with dad.

My ex is willing to reconcile if I get out of my current relationship, but he refuses therapy and is still very cold to me. He discovered through an online forum (on another site) that I had cheated on him while married. Since the divorce, he has tried to ruin me. Even threatened to press criminal charges against me for using his credit card...after filing divorce. It was accidental (something on file with the company)....but really RUINED me with all of our family and friends.

I didn't have an "affair" but I met my new love within weeks of filing divorce. My ex used this against me and told even my mother that I cheated. Not true - but he jumped to conclusions.  We had talked about divorce MANY times over the past few years...it was not new.  He was addicted to porn and was pretty cold to me...since 2010.

My ex is now offering to have me move back in etc...IF i leave my current relationship. I love my BF SO MUCH -- and I don't know how to be without him....but when I look at my daughter....I feel guilt.  I feel as if I have abandoned my daughter and ex. He's not dating anyone....right now..becuase he says he wants to work on us.  But, again -- won't go to a therapist because he says that I don't "tell the whole story".

What would you do?

These are Jesus's words in Mark 10,  11-12

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;

and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."


Luke 16,  18
"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he

who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."


John 14,  23-24
"If a man loves me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come

to him and make Our home with him.

He who does not love Me does not keep My words,


1 Corinthians 7,  10-11
To the married I give charge, not i but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband,

but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband,  and that the husband should

not divorce his wife.

Matthew 19:9

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Is fornication (unchastity) the same as adultery?

The word that jesus uses is 'Pornea' which means different types of sexual immorality, which can include adultery but means far more that just adultery.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:48:26

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

If you look at the Greek, instead of just relying on the KJV, you would realize you are wrong about Matthew 19:9.

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:48:26

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

As we have already said, the word Jesus uses is pornea. It is a word used in the Bible to describe different types of sexual immorality, such as adultery, sex between 2 men, sex before marriage etc etc. Its where the word pornography comes from.
IT was always assumed in Bible times that a wife would remarry, she had no choice, it was that or starve. 

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 07:32:36

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:48:26

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

As we have already said, the word Jesus uses is pornea. It is a word used in the Bible to describe different types of sexual immorality, such as adultery, sex between 2 men, sex before marriage etc etc. Its where the word pornography comes from.
IT was always assumed in Bible times that a wife would remarry, she had no choice, it was that or starve.

Scriptures seems to make a distinction between fornication and adultery.

1 Corinthians 6,  9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived:  neither fornicators, nor idolaters,  nor adulterers,

nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.



Mark 7,  21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adultery, fornications, murder,


Matthew 15,  19
For out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornications, thefts, false witness,
blasphemies.


Jesus mentioned them separately,  then I would assume to mean separate things.

Also it would contradict the other passages where Jesus spoke of marriage, divorce and remarriage.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 08:12:07

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 07:32:36

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:48:26

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

As we have already said, the word Jesus uses is pornea. It is a word used in the Bible to describe different types of sexual immorality, such as adultery, sex between 2 men, sex before marriage etc etc. Its where the word pornography comes from.
IT was always assumed in Bible times that a wife would remarry, she had no choice, it was that or starve.

Scriptures seems to make a distinction between fornication and adultery.

1 Corinthians 6,  9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived:  neither fornicators, nor idolaters,  nor adulterers,

nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.



Mark 7,  21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adultery, fornications, murder,


Matthew 15,  19
For out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornications, thefts, false witness,
blasphemies.


Jesus mentioned them separately,  then I would assume to mean separate things.

Also it would contradict the other passages where Jesus spoke of marriage, divorce and remarriage.

AS I said, the word pornea that Jesus uses is a word that means sexual immorality. It can mean many different types of sexual sin not just fornication and not just adultery.  I dont see that it contradicts what God says on marriage at all, He recognises a divorce as ending a marriage even though He doesnt like it(and who does?)

What God does hate is men 'putting away' their wives without divorcing them, and hence not enabling them to remarry and be provided for, hence they would be committing adultery if they did remarry, because they were still legally married to their spouse. Once they are divorced, the marriage is over, and they are free to marry again. 

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:31:28

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 08:12:07

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 07:32:36

Quote from: doorknocker on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:48:26

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Jul 24, 2015 - 20:17:01
fornication in the kjv, is the word porneia, which is most correctly translated sexual immorality.  The innocent party is not guilty of adultery if they marry.

In jewish times, when a married person had an affair or was unfaithful, it is considered adultery.

A unmarried person committing the act is considered fornication,  a case Joseph and Mary,

Mary was betrothed to Joseph and Joseph was already considered the husband, but the marriage

would not be official until it was consummated and they would become one flesh.

Since Mary became pregnant, Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly.    Matthew 1,  18-21

Luke 1,  5   Here Mary is still considered betrothed.


According to what Jesus said, Joseph had a right to put away (divorce Mary) as it appeared that

Mary became pregnant and was considered fornication.   The reason this exclusion is there because

they had not become one flesh yet.


Matthew 19,  5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall

become one flesh.   So they are no longer two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined

together, let not man put asunder.


Matthew 19,  9
And I say to you:  whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity (fornication), and marries another ,

commits adultery.


1 Corinthians 7,  39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.  If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she

wishes, only in the Lord.

As we have already said, the word Jesus uses is pornea. It is a word used in the Bible to describe different types of sexual immorality, such as adultery, sex between 2 men, sex before marriage etc etc. Its where the word pornography comes from.
IT was always assumed in Bible times that a wife would remarry, she had no choice, it was that or starve.

Scriptures seems to make a distinction between fornication and adultery.

1 Corinthians 6,  9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived:  neither fornicators, nor idolaters,  nor adulterers,

nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.



Mark 7,  21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adultery, fornications, murder,


Matthew 15,  19
For out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornications, thefts, false witness,
blasphemies.


Jesus mentioned them separately,  then I would assume to mean separate things.

Also it would contradict the other passages where Jesus spoke of marriage, divorce and remarriage.

AS I said, the word pornea that Jesus uses is a word that means sexual immorality. It can mean many different types of sexual sin not just fornication and not just adultery.  I dont see that it contradicts what God says on marriage at all, He recognises a divorce as ending a marriage even though He doesnt like it(and who does?)

What God does hate is men 'putting away' their wives without divorcing them, and hence not enabling them to remarry and be provided for, hence they would be committing adultery if they did remarry, because they were still legally married to their spouse. Once they are divorced, the marriage is over, and they are free to marry again.

1 Corinthians 7, 39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes,
only in the Lord.

Matthew 19, 5-6
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:22:46

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

The way you are wording that, you want to twist what I am saying.

What I am saying is , if you are born again, to even consider divorce is not of God.

If you have an unbelieving spouse and they want to separate then you are not bound according
to 1 Corinthians 7,  15

Unfaithfulness is no grounds for divorce in a consummated marriage.

As born again believers we are ambassadors for Christ and examples of faithfulness in our lives.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:39:39

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:22:46

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

The way you are wording that, you want to twist what I am saying.

I disagree.  What you said tells people that if they are saved and born of God, they will not get divorced. 

QuoteWhat I am saying is , if you are born again, to even consider divorce is not of God.

I disagree.  Its a very hard  and legalistic line you draw in the sand here, DK.

QuoteIf you have an unbelieving spouse and they want to separate then you are not bound according
to 1 Corinthians 7,  15

Unfaithfulness is no grounds for divorce in a consummated marriage.

As born again believers we are ambassadors for Christ and examples of faithfulness in our lives.

And, that is a fair and worthy conviction *of yours*, but, there are scripture that tell us that God *does* allow divorce for unfaithfulness.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:39:39

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:22:46

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

The way you are wording that, you want to twist what I am saying.

What I am saying is , if you are born again, to even consider divorce is not of God.

If you have an unbelieving spouse and they want to separate then you are not bound according
to 1 Corinthians 7,  15

Unfaithfulness is no grounds for divorce in a consummated marriage.

As born again believers we are ambassadors for Christ and examples of faithfulness in our lives.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Unfaithfulness breaks the marriage covenant in such a serious way that adulterers were stoned to death. It leaves the other spouse free to divorce and remarry if God leads them to do so.Out of the very mouth of Jesus this teaching comes, so not sure how you can deny it.   

I wonder, if your daughter was being beaten up by her husband, or your grandchildren sexually abused by their father, would you advise her to remain married to this man?

If a person is married to their partner, then of course they cant marry again, but even God recognises that divorce ends  a marriage.

There are also cases where a person is divorced against their will, there is nothing they can do to stop that.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:39:39

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:22:46

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

The way you are wording that, you want to twist what I am saying.

What I am saying is , if you are born again, to even consider divorce is not of God.

If you have an unbelieving spouse and they want to separate then you are not bound according
to 1 Corinthians 7,  15

Unfaithfulness is no grounds for divorce in a consummated marriage.

As born again believers we are ambassadors for Christ and examples of faithfulness in our lives.

Doorknocker, the Lord Himself, the embodiment of faithfulness and love, divorced Israel because of her unfaithfulness. He even spoke it in that manner, "I sent her away with a certificate of divorce." He did say He hates divorces, and anyone who has suffered the consequence of it can understand why, but neither would He force His Saint to stay marry to a spouse that has shown themselves to be unfaithful. The Lord did indeed say "Except on account of unfaithfulness," when speaking of divorce.

It's not to say it's good, but sometimes in a world like this it's necessary.

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 13:20:29

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:39:39

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 11:22:46

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 10:58:09
For any one born of God, divorce is a no.

So, then doorknocker, according to this post; those who are divorced are NOT born of God?

The way you are wording that, you want to twist what I am saying.

What I am saying is , if you are born again, to even consider divorce is not of God.

If you have an unbelieving spouse and they want to separate then you are not bound according
to 1 Corinthians 7,  15

Unfaithfulness is no grounds for divorce in a consummated marriage.

As born again believers we are ambassadors for Christ and examples of faithfulness in our lives.

Doorknocker, the Lord Himself, the embodiment of faithfulness and love, divorced Israel because of her unfaithfulness. He even spoke it in that manner, "I sent her away with a certificate of divorce." He did say He hates divorces, and anyone who has suffered the consequence of it can understand why, but neither would He force His Saint to stay marry to a spouse that has shown themselves to be unfaithful. The Lord did indeed say "Except on account of unfaithfulness," when speaking of divorce.

It's not to say it's good, but sometimes in a world like this it's necessary.

Every time a believer sins, they are unfaithful to the Lord, but yet we expect Him to forgive us

and to never leave or forsake us,  yet we want to set a different standard if some one is unfaithful

to us as ambassadors for our Lord?


How often do I have to forgive my brother when he sins against me?  7 times? 70 7 times?

Matthew 6,  14-15
For if you forgive men their trespasses,  your heavenly Father also will forgive you,  but if you do not

forgive me their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Jesus's words are very hard on our flesh, there is a reason He said that unless we lose OUR life, we

will not have life.

Jesus said if a man loves Me, he WILL keep My word.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 17:43:06
Every time a believer sins, they are unfaithful to the Lord, but yet we expect Him to forgive us

and to never leave or forsake us,  yet we want to set a different standard if some one is unfaithful

to us as ambassadors for our Lord?


How often do I have to forgive my brother when he sins against me?  7 times? 70 7 times?

Matthew 6,  14-15
For if you forgive men their trespasses,  your heavenly Father also will forgive you,  but if you do not

forgive me their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Jesus's words are very hard on our flesh, there is a reason He said that unless we lose OUR life, we

will not have life.

Jesus said if a man loves Me, he WILL keep My word.

Forgiveness does not mean we are obliged to continue in an abusive relationship.  A spouse that is cheating is abusing his or her spouse, and their relationship.

Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation.  In human relationships, forgiveness is in the offended's court, but reconciliation in the offender's.

Again I say the Lord divorced Israel for their unfaithfulness.

QuoteShe saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Nothing you say can refute that fact, mate. You're saying divorce is a sin, but in doing so you're claiming the Lord as a sinner.

He didn't say we can divorce willy nilly, but He didn't say under no circumstance should we ever divorce, either.

QuoteAnd I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 18:20:39
Again I say the Lord divorced Israel for their unfaithfulness.

QuoteShe saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Nothing you say can refute that fact, mate. You're saying divorce is a sin, but in doing so you're claiming the Lord as a sinner.

He didn't say we can divorce willy nilly, but He didn't say under no circumstance should we ever divorce, either.

QuoteAnd I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.

Mate !


This was written to believer by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7,  10-11

And to the married I command, yet not i BUT THE LORD, that

the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be

reconciled to her husband) --and that the husband should not divorce his wife.


That command seems pretty straight forward to me and that is all I have left to

say on this.

Of course the spouses should not separate if it can be avoided, the Lord hates divorces for a good reason. But it doesn't negate the fact that sometimes it is necessary. If the wife decides she don't love her husband anymore and decides to sleep around with a friend of hers, you really expect the Lord would demand him to stay after facing a betrayal like that? That's why He said except for sexual immorality. You keep ignoring that part, as well as the part where the Lord Himself divorced from Israel.

And just to be clear, I'm not endorsing divorce. But I rather not something be called sin that God allows in certain circumstances. Now unless you can explain how divorce is a sin yet the Lord Himself divorce from Israel, hence...

QuoteShe saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

...I could only suggest you re-examine what you believe. I simply can't say it any more clearer Doorknocker.

Quote from: doorknocker on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 23:26:03

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jul 25, 2015 - 18:20:39
Again I say the Lord divorced Israel for their unfaithfulness.

QuoteShe saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Nothing you say can refute that fact, mate. You're saying divorce is a sin, but in doing so you're claiming the Lord as a sinner.

He didn't say we can divorce willy nilly, but He didn't say under no circumstance should we ever divorce, either.

QuoteAnd I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.

Mate !


This was written to believer by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7,  10-11

And to the married I command, yet not i BUT THE LORD, that

the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be

reconciled to her husband) --and that the husband should not divorce his wife.


That command seems pretty straight forward to me and that is all I have left to

say on this.

Could you please answer my question about what you would want your daughter to do in the circumstances I described? (Both of which are very real for some)
Why do you keep on ignoring the very words of Jesus Himself? He is clear that for sexual immorality, there is no sin with ending the marriage and eventually remarrying.

minime5555, you must not simply measure how you feel about one man or the other, but more importantly is what principles of Scripture must guide your decision and what is the Holy Spirit calling you to do?  If God logged into this page, what would He say and will you obey Him?   Once you know this, you will stabilize and also can then explain and model truth to your daughter. 

The Matthew 18:15-19 process should have been carried out with a spouse who commits habitual sin and unfaithfulness against you & the marriage. It is not enough for a wife to simply ask the husband to go to counseling and simply accept his prideful or cowardly refusal.  Ask your Pastor/Counselor to confront him with truth that he is seriously sinning against his wife and the marriage covenant of which God is a member.  Will he repent? Will he submit to ongoing accountability with the pastor to bring about genuine and lasting change?  Will he join a group of Christian men who are learning how to Biblically overcome their addiction to porn and live with purity, love and respect?  You would also have to be accountable to the Pastor/Counselor separately, and have a Godly woman or group supporting you.  Neither of you dating others while this process is attempted.   IF your pastor refuses to confront him and carry out this process, perhaps another pastor will.   But no way do you simply move back in; he will have to demonstrate true change over time and with accountability,  then commit to another process of dating and re-earning your trust. The fact that he even thinks you can just move in now after so much sin and no formal process of working things out, he is ignorant.  Quite likely he still hasn't come to realize how destructive and terrible his sin was!  And does he care that you have healed from it?  Most likely not!  Not until you each have worked through your own healing and proper boundaries are mutually accepted, could marriage be a possibility.   The restoration of hearts, marriage and family is a wonderful ideal to work toward, and it is hard work.  It only works with repentant, soft-hearted, teachable people.  The Matt. 18 process is a way to objectively determine where each person's heart is at...   if there is solid hardness of heart in either or both, marriage cannot work. 

The man you are with now is not better. He is not respecting you or the Biblical guidelines to wait to live with you til marriage.  If your past is not yet Biblically settled, as long as doubt remains in your mind, then he should back off.   

Most children do want their parents together, but if the Matt 18 process finds hard-heartedness, then Jesus said in Matt 19, divorce is the result. 

Yes sexual unfaithfulness is Biblical grounds for divorce.  You are not required to reconcile. But some couples do heal and start a new marriage on a firm foundation that they didn't have before. 

 







   

I appreciate all of this feedback. I don't believe my ex ever cheated on me per say...but he was dealing with a porn addiction. He went to therapy and said he stopped. But that was one of our first major hurdles because I became resentful. Do you think God sees that as grounds for biblical divorce?

Does he still look at porn?

I believe that he does. However in one of our recent fights, he lashed out saying I was living it up w my new relationship and having sex and that he hasn't had traditional sex since our divorce.  So, yes... I think he just uses porn.. Much like when we were married.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Aug 03, 2015 - 03:04:09
Does he still look at porn?

Why does it even matter?  They aren't married.  She is living with another man.  They can't get along and are both giving their daughter false hope.  You shouldn't encourage this.