Christian Forums

Quote from: Nataly87 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 20:44:35
1. I do not have or want to have kids, because they are not for me.

Then you shouldn't get married, and you shouldn't be dating.  The purpose of dating is to see if you want to marry someone.  And marriage and sex go together, as do sex and babies.  That is God's design.

Quote from: Nataly87 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:01:21
Wouldn't any of YOU of wanted, your life put together? Have a job, a car, and money in your pocket, then get married and get your own house, then the kids? I thought thats the way it was done.

So, *has* he asked you to marry him?

We had zero money in our pocket, weren't done with college yet, no real jobs to make us rich rich rich, but we got by.

Don't worship at the alter of prosperity.  God will work it all out and NO, home ownership is not required.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:06:00

Quote from: Nataly87 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 20:44:35
1. I do not have or want to have kids, because they are not for me.

Then you shouldn't get married, and you shouldn't be dating.  The purpose of dating is to see if you want to marry someone.  And marriage and sex go together, as do sex and babies.  That is God's design.

that's IF she is Catholic.

Not everyone believes that every sexual encounter MUST produce offspring.

Quote from: Nataly87 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:01:21
Wouldn't any of YOU of wanted, your life put together? Have a job, a car, and money in your pocket, then get married and get your own house, then the kids? I thought thats the way it was done.

If my life had to be put together, I would not have had kids.

The way you describe it as being done is more culture that biblical.

Quote from: Nataly87 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:01:21
Wouldn't any of YOU of wanted, your life put together? Have a job, a car, and money in your pocket, then get married and get your own house, then the kids? I thought thats the way it was done.

We didn't have two nickels to rub together, but we made it. Those times were the best memories of all. I did have a job but that was about all. Looking back, my life was anything BUT "put together". We just didn't consider the option of it not working. In reality that was NOT an option. We rented a small duplex for $86 per month all bills included. I rode a bicycle to work and school and my wife drove an old beater car that cost us about $600.

I grew up in the second poorest white family in Lubbock County, Texas and my wife's family was the first. Both parents did not have the money for a big wedding, so it was the size WE could afford. Red neck all the way. One aunt made the cake, one aunt took all the pictures. We did have a few flowers and we bought a reasonably priced wedding dress. The wedding ring I bought was pretty jicky, but my wife still wears it, and I didn't have to go in hock for it. I worked my way through college as a young married tire buster making $1.70 per hour. My wife had a clerk's job not making much at all. Fortunately after my degree, I got a better job where she could stay home with the kids, even though I really don't know how we made that work. Only by the grace of God.

Get married and have kids if you can. The blessings are amazing no matter "put together" or not. By the way, my wife and I celebrate our 43rd wedding anniversary this month. Both our daughters are married and live in the same town as we do with our 4 grandchildren, and all love the Lord. It don't get any better than that! We are richly blessed and still don't have a lot to show for ourselves as to money and wealth. Besides old age would suck if it weren't for kids and grandkids. And it only seems like a blink of an eye that the last 43 years transpired. Life is but a wisp or vapor in the scheme of things.

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:13:32

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:06:00

Quote from: Nataly87 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 20:44:35
1. I do not have or want to have kids, because they are not for me.

Then you shouldn't get married, and you shouldn't be dating.  The purpose of dating is to see if you want to marry someone.  And marriage and sex go together, as do sex and babies.  That is God's design.

that's IF she is Catholic.

God's design is the same for all people, whether they are Catholic or not.

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:13:32
Not everyone believes that every sexual encounter MUST produce offspring.

Neither do Catholics.  There are only certain times of month where that is likely or possible.  Nature tells us that too.

The marital act naturally is capable of producing offspring.  That is the way the Creator of nature (God) created the human body, and so that is His intent for the marital act.  Modern man and woman have forgotten this simple fact.  God created nature, and we can see from nature what God's design for sexuality is: that sexual acts can, and at times do produce offspring.  And if we are to take part in the sacred marital act, it has to be done in marriage, and it has to be open to offspring.  That doesn't mean that offspring will always be produced.  It just means that the possibility of them is there naturally.

Yes, the nature of the marital act is also a connection and sharing between spouses in addition to the possibility of children.  The error is to separate the two as if they are optional.  Rather, God designed them all to be present together.

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:38:37

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:13:32

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:06:00

Quote from: Nataly87 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 20:44:35
1. I do not have or want to have kids, because they are not for me.

Then you shouldn't get married, and you shouldn't be dating.  The purpose of dating is to see if you want to marry someone.  And marriage and sex go together, as do sex and babies.  That is God's design.

that's IF she is Catholic.

God's design is the same for all people, whether they are Catholic or not.

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:13:32
Not everyone believes that every sexual encounter MUST produce offspring.

Neither do Catholics.  There are only certain times of month where that is likely or possible.  Nature tells us that too.

The marital act naturally is capable of producing offspring.  That is the way the Creator of nature (God) created the human body, and so that is His intent for the marital act.  Modern man and woman have forgotten this simple fact.  God created nature, and we can see from nature what God's design for sexuality is: that sexual acts can, and at times do produce offspring.  And if we are to take part in the sacred marital act, it has to be done in marriage, and it has to be open to offspring.  That doesn't mean that offspring will always be produced.  It just means that the possibility of them is there naturally.

Yes, the nature of the marital act is also a connection and sharing between spouses in addition to the possibility of children.  The error is to separate the two as if they are optional.  Rather, God designed them all to be present together.

If people know about themselves that the should NOT be parents, they should NOT be parents!  That is a job that is best suited for those that DO want to have and raise children, not for those guilted into it...too many kids are being broken by people who should have been honest and not reproduced.

And, a person can desire marriage, so as not to "burn with lust", but not desire to be a parent.  It is not a sin to be a childless couple.  It *is* however a sin to cause a little one to stumble.

Can't get married because you don't have your life together, and can't have sex because you aren't married.

If your boyfriend agrees with you on having your life together before marriage, he is sexually frustrating himself.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:42:28
Can't get married because you don't have your life together, and can't have sex because you aren't married.

If your boyfriend agrees with you on having your life together before marriage, he is sexually frustrating himself.

I agree with this...and IF they are both waiting for everything to be perfect financially?  Sad.

We just wanted to be together.  We knew it would be a struggle, but we wanted to struggle together.  Nothing was more important to us than starting our life together. 

We look back now and marvel at how far we have come, with God's help and leading.  There is such satisfaction that comes from working with someone to accomplish a life together.

But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

There are enough horrible parents in the world, if you don't want kids don't have them.

I would have a hard time caring less for what Catholic dogma teaches.

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:25:53

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

You're grouping the entirety of mankind, I'm speaking specifically to those who call themselves of God, and even more specifically to the original poster of this thread. Show me a contrary to what I said in the Scriptures if you wish to preach such.

What are you talking about? I'm not preaching anything.
The truth is, even some Christian people do not feel the call to be a parent. I don't know why this seems to offend you so much?
They can still marry and serve God, but do not have it within them to raise and nurture children.

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:51:53

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:25:53

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

You're grouping the entirety of mankind, I'm speaking specifically to those who call themselves of God, and even more specifically to the original poster of this thread. Show me a contrary to what I said in the Scriptures if you wish to preach such.

I don't recall in the New Testament, people being called to be married for the purpose of having children.  I do see Paul exhorting those who cannot control their passions sexually to be married.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 21:04:43

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:51:53

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:25:53

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

You're grouping the entirety of mankind, I'm speaking specifically to those who call themselves of God, and even more specifically to the original poster of this thread. Show me a contrary to what I said in the Scriptures if you wish to preach such.

I don't recall in the New Testament, people being called to be married for the purpose of having children.  I do see Paul exhorting those who cannot control their passions sexually to be married.

It's a given. Only time you don't see a couple with kids is if the mother is barren.

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 21:21:35

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 21:04:43

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:51:53

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:25:53

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

You're grouping the entirety of mankind, I'm speaking specifically to those who call themselves of God, and even more specifically to the original poster of this thread. Show me a contrary to what I said in the Scriptures if you wish to preach such.

I don't recall in the New Testament, people being called to be married for the purpose of having children.  I do see Paul exhorting those who cannot control their passions sexually to be married.

It's a given. Only time you don't see a couple with kids is if the mother is barren.

I'd rather deal with scripture than "It's a given."

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

Fruitful doesn't really define a number, so should we be as fruitful as possible or is there a limited obligation?
1, 3, 5 kids? Maybe 1 kid every 2 years?
What number do you think satisfies the "command"?

Quote from: Nataly87 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 15:01:21
Wouldn't any of YOU of wanted, your life put together? Have a job, a car, and money in your pocket, then get married and get your own house, then the kids? I thought thats the way it was done.

Do you both work? can you afford a rent a small appt?  Do you have a car?Then what is stopping you? In the uk no one would ever get married if they waited till they could afford their own home, houses here are so incredibly expensive and few can by one till their later 30's or 40's.
There is nothing to stop you getting married now, do I sense in you a fear of being married? A reluctance?


YOu still havent answered our questions.  Have you talked about marriage and when that will be? Has he asked you to marry him? Does he know that you dont want children? 

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 21:04:43

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:51:53

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:25:53

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 19:13:20

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 18:21:40

Quote from: LexKnight on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:11:26
But God commanded man to be fruitful and multiply in the Earth, it would be against natural design to not want kids unless you're a Eunuch.

For YOU, it is against natural design. For others, not so much.

Everything seems subjective with you.

Well, you are wrong.  There are absolutes and then there are disputable matters.  The key is having the wisdom to tell the difference and the grace to offer others.

Child bearing should NOT be done by every person who has the bits capable of reproducing.  We aren't a species that just lays eggs and lets the young fend for themselves.  We are people, and people have to be raised, nurtured and loved.  Not everyone has the capacity to be nurturing. Look at the foster care programs across the U.S. 
People who know they are not gifted this way, are better NOT conceiving children, than feeling they MUST and then do a terrible job in raising them and break their spirits.  I understand that others may not agree. That's ok. 

There is no condemnation for having no children, but there is condemnation for breaking them and causing them to stumble.

You're grouping the entirety of mankind, I'm speaking specifically to those who call themselves of God, and even more specifically to the original poster of this thread. Show me a contrary to what I said in the Scriptures if you wish to preach such.

I don't recall in the New Testament, people being called to be married for the purpose of having children.  I do see Paul exhorting those who cannot control their passions sexually to be married.

Wow, we agree on something.

I don't understand why everyone seems to be extremely annoyed by the fact she hasn't married yet. 2 years is not enought to get to know a person. And also, I can't understand how your boyfriend seems to be "sexually frustrated" and not even taking marriage into account. From what I've been taught, if you want something you ask, if the answer is "no" then it's no. Don't allow him to change your mind on things and don't get married in a hurry just because people here tell you to. Think about what you want and if you really love this man.

Quote from: Alma1995 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:30:50
And also, I can't understand how your boyfriend seems to be "sexually frustrated" and not even taking marriage into account.

I assumed that he wasn't interested in asking for marriage also..but now I am not sure that is the case.  I am still waiting to hear if he *has* asked her and she is turning him down.

Quote from: Alma1995 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:30:50
I don't understand why everyone seems to be extremely annoyed by the fact she hasn't married yet. 2 years is not enought to get to know a person. And also, I can't understand how your boyfriend seems to be "sexually frustrated" and not even taking marriage into account. From what I've been taught, if you want something you ask, if the answer is "no" then it's no. Don't allow him to change your mind on things and don't get married in a hurry just because people here tell you to. Think about what you want and if you really love this man.

Most folks are responding the way they do because of life experience.  You are just getting started.  2 years is more than enough time to decide to commit to another person.  Since people change over time, you can get to know your spouse the rest of your lives.

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:21:03
Dave, would you agree that dating for 2 years in your late 20's without even being engaged let alone married isnt helping the situation? It maybe  that he wants to do the right thing and he may even have suggested marriage, we dont know.

Yes I agree with that.  But if she has turned him down on marriage, then he should move on to someone else.

Pressuring someone for sex before being married, especially this "If you won't have sex with me means you don't love me," is pure manipulation.  It is NOT love.

Quote from: Alma1995 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:30:50
I don't understand why everyone seems to be extremely annoyed by the fact she hasn't married yet. 2 years is not enough to get to know a person.

I would submit until you actually get married, you do not really know the person.  No matter HOW long you date or even live together.

QuoteAnd also, I can't understand how your boyfriend seems to be "sexually frustrated" and not even taking marriage into account.

All single guys (and many married guys) are constantly "sexually frustrated." That is just a fact of hormones.  Big deal. I am not impressed. That is as it is SUPPOSED to be. (at least for the singles)

As to marriage - we do not know if he has brought it up or not.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 05:50:05
But if she has turned him down on marriage, then he should move on to someone else.

I agree!  If she has been asked and is refusing, *he* needs to move on and find someone who wants marriage, and will respect his need for sexual intimacy.

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 08:53:54

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 05:50:05
But if she has turned him down on marriage, then he should move on to someone else.

I agree!  If she has been asked and is refusing, *he* needs to move on and find someone who wants marriage, and will respect his need for sexual intimacy.

He may also be on board with the "wait until we are financially settled" deal.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 09:10:31

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 08:53:54

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 05:50:05
But if she has turned him down on marriage, then he should move on to someone else.

I agree!  If she has been asked and is refusing, *he* needs to move on and find someone who wants marriage, and will respect his need for sexual intimacy.

He may also be on board with the "wait until we are financially settled" deal.

That is true and if so, he needs to give up on that foolishness as well!

Quote from: Alma1995 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:30:50
I don't understand why everyone seems to be extremely annoyed by the fact she hasn't married yet. 2 years is not enought to get to know a person. And also, I can't understand how your boyfriend seems to be "sexually frustrated" and not even taking marriage into account. From what I've been taught, if you want something you ask, if the answer is "no" then it's no. Don't allow him to change your mind on things and don't get married in a hurry just because people here tell you to. Think about what you want and if you really love this man.

2 years is easily long enough to get to know someone. Its not as if they are in their teens.   

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 05:50:05

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:21:03
Dave, would you agree that dating for 2 years in your late 20's without even being engaged let alone married isnt helping the situation? It maybe  that he wants to do the right thing and he may even have suggested marriage, we dont know.

Yes I agree with that.  But if she has turned him down on marriage, then he should move on to someone else.

Pressuring someone for sex before being married, especially this "If you won't have sex with me means you don't love me," is pure manipulation.  It is NOT love.

yes he may need to move o if that is the case, she hasnt answered that question despite it being asked 2 or 3 times now.
There are people who are just afraid of commitment.

LOOK all of you need to just STOP. We all have our own beliefs, opinions, etc. And I think that, me and my partner should both have our lives together, finished school, have jobs, and have income coming in, then save up towards having a wedding put together, and then get a house and live our happily ever afters. Thats the way I have always wanted it to happen and how it will turn out. I AM NOT afraid of commitment. I have been in serious relationships before and even previous engagements before as well. But that was the past and this is NOW. I am focusing upon right now and trying to sort everything out accordingly.

Quote from: Nataly87 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 - 14:17:40
LOOK all of you need to just STOP. We all have our own beliefs, opinions, etc. And I think that, me and my partner should both have our lives together, finished school, have jobs, and have income coming in, then save up towards having a wedding put together, and then get a house and live our happily ever afters. Thats the way I have always wanted it to happen and how it will turn out. I AM NOT afraid of commitment. I have been in serious relationships before and even previous engagements before as well. But that was the past and this is NOW. I am focusing upon right now and trying to sort everything out accordingly.

You asked for advice.  Folks with more experience than you gave it.  Now you don't like hearing what others say. 

This is pretty much all you need to know:

1 Cor. 7
1 Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
...
8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I.
9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.

If your boyfriend can't handle waiting much longer to have marital relations, then you have a choice: you either dump him or you marry him.  There are no other options, no waiting for awhile.