Christian Forums

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 14:32:00

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:49:35

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:33:59

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:19:51

Quote from: Hello on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:17:27
Sex is not just for procreation.

No, its not, Hello.  You are right. God made it for enjoyment and to express love within marriage as well.

I agree in a sense but this is not a thread started to discuss doctrinal issues but to help a person deal with a problem.

There isn't one.  She needs to be open with her child about any tie to the act being due to viewing porn, because *that* would be the sin. Not the act of the "m" word.

In the OP's belief there is a problem.

But masturbation is certainly a sin. We can tell by how God made our bodies. The male parts were made to fit with female parts and vice versa. The end result of stimulating said parts is the giving/receiving of material capable of giving life. Any use outside of that is improper use of the body and is therefore disordered with respect to God's design.

Yes the parts give pleasure too yet that pleasure is only rightly experienced as part of the marital act as the end of that act is the sharing of material capable of producing life. E.g. That rules out masturbation.

But I suppose next time you masturbate, pray to God beforehand and tell Him that you are doing it to bring glory to Him. See if that feels right to you. If not, perhaps you ought to think twice about it. 1 Cor. 10:31

You may think its a sin, but God doesnt say anything of the sort. No wonder the RC church produces people so filled with guilt and condemnation. 

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 14:43:02

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 14:32:00

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:49:35

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:33:59

Quote from: MeMyself on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:19:51

Quote from: Hello on Wed Sep 16, 2015 - 13:17:27
Sex is not just for procreation.

No, its not, Hello.  You are right. God made it for enjoyment and to express love within marriage as well.

I agree in a sense but this is not a thread started to discuss doctrinal issues but to help a person deal with a problem.

There isn't one.  She needs to be open with her child about any tie to the act being due to viewing porn, because *that* would be the sin. Not the act of the "m" word.

In the OP's belief there is a problem.

But masturbation is certainly a sin. We can tell by how God made our bodies. The male parts were made to fit with female parts and vice versa. The end result of stimulating said parts is the giving/receiving of material capable of giving life. Any use outside of that is improper use of the body and is therefore disordered with respect to God's design.

Yes the parts give pleasure too yet that pleasure is only rightly experienced as part of the marital act as the end of that act is the sharing of material capable of producing life. E.g. That rules out masturbation.

But I suppose next time you masturbate, pray to God beforehand and tell Him that you are doing it to bring glory to Him. See if that feels right to you. If not, perhaps you ought to think twice about it. 1 Cor. 10:31

You may think its a sin, but God doesnt say anything of the sort. No wonder the RC church produces people so filled with guilt and condemnation. 

... She says as she condemns my faith and shakes her head to shame me.

Who can explain why the saints had so much joy though?

QuoteWho can explain why the saints had so much joy though?

You mean guys like Origen and Jerome who went to great lengths including self mutilation to relieve their sex drives? 

I would say the act is not the problem, the pornographic thoughts feeding the act are. Is there any teenage boy who can do this to the thought of waves crashing on the beach?? Who knows. My son has no access to porn but has confessed to me that he thinks of dirty things while doing it. The sin is in the mind, imo. He wants to stop but finds himself enslaved in a way. I remind him that Jesus Christ is more than able to renew the mind. Get in the word of God and let it wash those dirty thoughts away, everyday. It's a constant battle fighting against sin!

Yeah - I know this is a zombie thread.  But it is an important one IMO.  In another site, a question of sex ed came up and I am quoting a couple of posts from that thread.

Post 145 from Aquila0121

QuoteSex education is necessary because too many parents are uncomfortable talking about sex with their children. Also, many parents have "hang-ups" or "prohibitions" that they seek to impose on their children. These prohibitions can often lead to confusion, frustration, and emotional damage. So, sex education presents the bare bones facts, answers kids questions (if they are brave enough to ask them), and allows the children some understanding of themselves.

In our home we've talked to our kids about sexuality rather openly in stages. We've even shown them charts and basic illustrations as necessary to answer their questions. When they enter their first sex education class, they'll already know most of the basic content. They'll also know about various perspectives on the matter. We've emphasized our Christian faith and how we believe God designed sex to be. We've discussed what we believe to be "normal" vs. "sinful". However, we've also shared with them how some have chosen not to obey God and do things that are not as God desires. We've also told them to realize that the school ISN'T mommy and daddy. The school doesn't focus on what God says or define what is evil. Instead, the school just explains it as it is in a worldly manner. Therefore, they might hear that some things are "normal" or "natural" from a worldly perspective... but we've assured them that God disagrees. And our home will strive to do as God desires.

Things we've explained as being sinful and/or a crisis are:

Homosexuality
Hardcore pornography
Rape & molestation
Sex outside of marriage
STDs (pictures from the internet can be valuable here to send a serious message)
Crisis pregnancy
Abortion
Inappropriate talking (harassment)
Grace​

We explained that the following are natural and may present themselves at different times throughout life. We also counseled them a little with how to manage these normal impulses:

Feeling "Tingles & Butterflies"
Interest in the opposite sex & peeking
Involuntary responses in genitalia
Dreams
Self-Exploration & Self-petting (masturbation)
Orgasm (male & female)
Respecting privacy
Needing privacy
Cleanup
Hygiene
Private personal items
Menstruation
The wastepaper basket
True Beauty, the way God made you
Be thankful for this gift
Birth Control
Respect (self & others)
Dating, the rules, and the law
Feeling like you've "fallen in love"
Being engaged
Marriage
Your mate & your duties/responsibilities
Fertilization
Pregnancy
Child birth
Blessings that come from "Doing it God's Way" (obedience)​

We covered the basics in almost every area listed above. Like I said, we discussed this with them in stages as they showed natural curiosity and necessary levels of comprehension. We have used charts and illustrations to address more hard to explain questions. We've talked about showing them a video on birth, but we haven't done it yet. They have seen a couple pictures from a health & wellness magazine titled, A Baby Is Born. Currently gauging to see if they're ready for something like that.

I'm confident that our kids will roll their eyes at most of sex ed because they've heard it and seen it already.

Post 154 from Aquila0121

QuoteWe addressed our kids together, it was a family talk. Both of them present and both of us present. We even talked about hormones and "when your sister seems crazy or cries all the time" and "when your brother runs out of tissues). lol We had funny moments and the kids offered some serious questions. We were honest. We talked about bodily fluids and compared them to snot or phlegm. Some questions needed tweaking because they were misinformed (no, you can't get pregnant from setting on a toilet seat after a boy pees). Yes, mom did talk about "vibes" with Addy (who had already discovered her mother's! lol). She explained that she might be tempted to use things that can hurt her, and so if she felt she wanted or needed something like a "vibe" to just drop her a note or just ask. Noah really didn't get it entirely, but we explained it to him. He blushed, but he was all ears. We talked about posters, models, and swimsuit magazines. We talked about adult magazines and entertainment. We said that as parents, we set the tone of what is acceptable in the house and for whom. We warned them both that if we discover something that we feel is offensive or terribly inappropriate we reserve the right to throw it away without warning or notification. So, if it is personal and even might offend us, keep it hidden out of respect. They really seemed thankful that we talked to them about it. Kids crave attention, knowledge, and acceptance. They found that in our talks.

    We started talking about the birds and the bees at 6. We have pets. So they had questions about "What is Charlie doing on Farrah??? What is that on Charlie???" That helped. We left 7 open with periodic references to "making babies" when watching television and the subject presented itself. We also began talking about love and bonding as it relates to marriage and sex after marriage. Plenty of opportunities in Disney films about various princesses and princes seeking marriage. At 8 we opened up a little full bore and we're leaving the rest of 9 and 10 to open several subjects again as necessary. It was funny, we were watching Transfomers and there's a seen where the mom asks her son if he was "masturbating". That opened up a few questions. There are plenty of opportunities out there, you have to determine in yourself not to let them slip buy. If there is a love scene in a movie... mention it being normal for couples in love to want to be lovers... emphasize that it's so much better if they wait until after marriage though because most movies don't depict married lovers as often.

    The point is... many wait until puberty starts to have the talk. But by this time kids are feeling awkward, embarrassed, self-conscious, private, etc.... so they won't open up to you. You have to catch them when it's a friendly conversation with kids who aren't feeling so personally embarrassed or ashamed. If you don't they will close up on you, shut you down, lie to you, and do whatever they can to evade the topic. They will also feel offended that you are asking personal private questions and seeking to win "mommy points" or "daddy points" late in the game. Starting young keeps it light, matter of fact, and they ask the craziest questions without as much embarrassment because it doesn't pertain to them yet. In fact, they will leave you feeling embarrassed when they ask personal questions about you and what you do. lol

    Lastly, be honest. Don't lie. Be transparent. Don't skirt the truth. They can sense it and it really causes them to get the "willies" about it all. Tell it like it is. Talk about many of the joys and pitfalls you've experienced. Talk about feeling ashamed or guilty about certain things and how you had to learn that God loves you as you are and made you like you are with this as a blessing. You certainly don't have to reveal too much. But lying isn't the answer. We chose not to disclose any indiscretions of our own prior to marriage (just being real here). We decided that it would be better to laugh and say, "My first time with daddy/mommy was a really special and interesting story, and it was very special to me, we'll talk about it after you're a little older." Beyond that... we're pretty open with anything the kids ask us.

    We even started practicing "knock first" policy. We chide one another if we catch someone just barging into one of our rooms ("Bulldozer!!!").

    So as it relates to ages and our strategy...

    6 - General info. should they ask questions. If kids see pets mating, a simple, "They are trying to make a baby." is all that is necessary.

    7- Revisit for questions. Remain open to opportunities in media to talk about sex being "natural", "beautiful", a "gift from God".

    8 to 9 - Be frank. Talk about the more private issues (self-petting, menstruation, privacy). Show appropriate charts/illustrations/pictures (pics of STDs are very interesting to them and gives ample warning of what can happen). This is the first "big talk". Remain open for opportunities in media. Be bold, you're in charge and if you don't have this talk with them... who knows what information they will get and what they might think they know that needs corrected. You're children, your duty.

    10 - Revisit the "big talk" and continue to focus on self-respect, true beauty, self-esteem, God loves you, grace, privacy, private items, respect for one another's privacy and mommy and daddy's privacy... dangers and pitfalls.

    11 - Puberty will probably be an evident reality at this point. Now start reinforcing what you've said before with privacy, openness in communication, beauty, and how what they see is the changing... not the finished product, etc. Make sure son always has tissues in his room and that your daughter is well prepared for her personal needs, hygiene etc.

    12 - They will most likely not want to talk to you much at all... unless you've built that comfort level and openness.

    13 to 18 (and beyond) - Hopefully you've built a good report with them and can talk about the circumstances and issues they will be confronted with, needs they might have, feelings, mistakes, etc. If you haven't... expect to be kept in the dark and always be the last to know anything. ​
    Be full of grace, patience, and understanding... (and did I mention patience?). Remember how it was for you growing up. It hasn't gotten easier for kids. It's only gotten harder. If they can't feel like they can turn to you without losing your love and respect.. who can they trust?

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/sex-education.7869385/page-8

DaveW, there are some good ideas in Aquila0121's posts, but a couple of things -

I would have never had all these discussions with my kids together - boys and girls. I addressed my son and daughters separately - for several important reasons.

This stands out, too -

QuoteWe even talked about hormones and "when your sister seems crazy or cries all the time" and "when your brother runs out of tissues).

This statement is pretty sexist. It implies that girls have severe emotional issues during puberty, but boys only need a box of tissue to keep happy, for lack of a better term. Maybe the males in my family have more raging testosterone than the males in their family, but my son and my grandson were much more moody and aggressive during puberty than my girls. Yes, my girls were a little weepy and emo, but my son and grandson?? The testosterone surges were unreal. With my grandson, we ended up taking him out of band and putting him into sports, including football, and also soccer. My brother-in-law recommended it. He said vigorous sports/exercise help burn up and level out those testosterone surges. He was right. Football wore out my grandson so he didn't have the energy to get moody and aggressive outside of the game. 

The energy boys and girls find when their hormones are changing need to be applied in positive ways, and masturbation is not one.  Self-stimulation is a misuse of the holy body that God has given them, and this is evident in how God created the human body.  Our sexual facilities were meant for "another".