The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings

cgaviria · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 09:54:44

This study explains why wives must wear head coverings and what it actually symbolizes. The study can be found here in English http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2017/03/17/the-tzniut-wives-and-head-coverings/ or in Spanish here http://www.sabiduriadedios.co/2017/03/17/el-tzniut-esposas-y-cubiertas-de-cabeza/ . Let us begin a discussion on these matters.

Alan · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01

The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

Rella · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:30:15

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01
The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

I was wondering that myself.

I have never been married.

But on reading this I wonder about this "sin" as older women usually cut their hair shorted, and gone are the
days when many would een wear a hat, much less cover up as the article suggests.

Johnb · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:04:55

Here is the problem and why there are so many differences of understanding of NT scripture. None of it was written directly to us. It was either Jesus instructing the apostles or the apostles giving instructions to believers about problems they were having in the assembly. We all make decisions on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and which ones were part of culture and we reject.

cgaviria · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:17:11

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01
The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

Single women are not required to wear a head covering, as they do not "have authority over their own head", meaning they do not have a husband that they should have to submit to in marriage.

Rella · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:20:47

Quote from: cgaviria on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:17:11
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01
The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

Single women are not required to wear a head covering, as they do not "have authority over their own head", meaning they do not have a husband that they should have to submit to in marriage.

Ah, finally I am doing something right in my life..... being single.

cgaviria · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:22:41

Quote from: Rella on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:20:47
Quote from: cgaviria on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:17:11
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01
The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

Single women are not required to wear a head covering, as they do not "have authority over their own head", meaning they do not have a husband that they should have to submit to in marriage.

Ah, finally I am doing something right in my life..... being single.

The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." (Matthew 19:10 [NIV])

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. (1 Corinthians 7:8 [NIV])

Alan · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:28:43

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:04:55
Here is the problem and why there are so many differences of understanding of NT scripture. None of it was written directly to us. It was either Jesus instructing the apostles or the apostles giving instructions to believers about problems they were having in the assembly. We all make decisions on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and which ones were part of culture and we reject.

+1

I suppose the ones we like, we make into law, the ones we do not like become "cultural".

notreligus · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:37:18

I doubt that cgaviria is letting men off the hook and would say that men should wear a yarmulke.

cgaviria · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:42:07

Quote from: notreligus on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:37:18
I doubt that cgaviria is letting men off the hook and would say that men should wear a yarmulke.

No where in scripture is that found, so no. That is a tradition passed on by non-believing Jews as if it were commanded in the law, which it is not. Perhaps, instead of being presumptuous, you should learn and understand the scriptures, which clearly you do not know.

chosenone · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:42:17

My hair covers my head.

chosenone · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:44:11

Quote from: Rella on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:30:15
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 11:12:01
The wives head covering is in the submission to her head; her husband.

What about single women?

I was wondering that myself.

I have never been married.

But on reading this I wonder about this "sin" as older women usually cut their hair shorted, and gone are the
days when many would een wear a hat, much less cover up as the article suggests.

Short hair still covers the head as much as long hair. Long hair also covers the shoulders and some of the back.

chosenone · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:45:52

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:04:55
Here is the problem and why there are so many differences of understanding of NT scripture. None of it was written directly to us. It was either Jesus instructing the apostles or the apostles giving instructions to believers about problems they were having in the assembly. We all make decisions on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and which ones were part of culture and we reject.

Yes, God expects us to have some common sense.

mommydi · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:48:45

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:28:43

I suppose the ones we like, we make into law, the ones we do not like become "cultural".

This realization is what pulled the first thread and totally unraveled my faith. It's been a long, long journey since then.

Texas Conservative · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:19:57

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:45:52
Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:04:55
Here is the problem and why there are so many differences of understanding of NT scripture. None of it was written directly to us. It was either Jesus instructing the apostles or the apostles giving instructions to believers about problems they were having in the assembly. We all make decisions on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and which ones were part of culture and we reject.

Yes, God expects us to have some common sense.

Common sense is often not common. If it was, everyone would agree with me.

Alan · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:41:55

Men are supposed to have short hair.

Rella · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:55:29

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:42:17
My hair covers my head.

But yet I may still be in trouble.... I have a little area, along my hairline that is thinning.... not bald, but in 10 or 15 years it may be. (On reason I am glad my hair grows like Trumps

) so is good that I do not need to cover my head with no husband....

Rella · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 14:01:42

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:04:55
Here is the problem and why there are so many differences of understanding of NT scripture. None of it was written directly to us. It was either Jesus instructing the apostles or the apostles giving instructions to believers about problems they were having in the assembly. We all make decisions on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and which ones were part of culture and we reject.

Hench the reason that there are so many protestant denominations and variations with in the Catholic church
from Roman, to Greek, to Russian, and it goes on.

Too many variables on which commands and instructions apply directly to us and too many variables on actual interpretations of scripture that make church Canon.

chosenone · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 14:58:46

Quote from: Rella on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:55:29
Quote from: chosenone on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 12:42:17
My hair covers my head.

But yet I may still be in trouble.... I have a little area, along my hairline that is thinning.... not bald, but in 10 or 15 years it may be. (On reason I am glad my hair grows like Trumps ) so is good that I do not need to cover my head with no husband....

Yep or you would be in BIG trouble.

I read recently that women dont have less hair as they age, but what they do have gets thinner.

The day my husband asks me to cover my head (with more than my hair), or that I feel convicted to do that by God, I will, but I cant see that happening.

I also hate wearing hats, and wont even wear them at a wedding. Maybe due to all those years I was made to wear my school hat.

Johnb · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 18:14:04

Don't ya just love it when folks come here and believe they have the correct understanding of every scripture and the final answer to every religious question? I have lived long enough to understand I don't even know all the questions much less all the answers. I am a recovering legalist.

Alan · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 18:26:50

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 18:14:04
Don't ya just love it when folks come here and believe they have the correct understanding of every scripture and the final answer to every religious question? I have lived long enough to understand I don't even know all the questions much less all the answers. I am a recovering legalist.

Being a recovering legalist is a big sign of maturity, if you notice these people that are constantly convicting us with scripture never seem to mention the two greatest commandments. Living by the law didn't work before Christ and it certainly won't work today.

NorrinRadd · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 20:25:40

Other resources for those interested:

William Welty (PDF).

David Instone-Brewer.

P.B. Payne.

P.B. Payne (PDF; more extensive).

More generally: This matter is adiaphoron. Let anyone who would impose law on the Church be anathema.

chosenone · Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 23:48:15

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 18:26:50
Quote from: Johnb on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 18:14:04
Don't ya just love it when folks come here and believe they have the correct understanding of every scripture and the final answer to every religious question? I have lived long enough to understand I don't even know all the questions much less all the answers. I am a recovering legalist.

Being a recovering legalist is a big sign of maturity, if you notice these people that are constantly convicting us with scripture never seem to mention the two greatest commandments. Living by the law didn't work before Christ and it certainly won't work today.

I thought this article on the law was good.

https://www.gci.org/law/lawmoses

chosenone · Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 00:11:12

Quote from: NorrinRadd on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 20:25:40
Other resources for those interested:

William Welty (PDF).

David Instone-Brewer.

P.B. Payne.

P.B. Payne (PDF; more extensive).

More generally: This matter is adiaphoron. Let anyone who would impose law on the Church be anathema.

Just read David Instone-Brewers teaching, excellent.

SwordMaster · Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 00:48:03

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:41:55
Men are supposed to have short hair.

How short?

In Jesus' day, the women had hair that went down to below the waist or longer...so in relation, a man's hair could be shorter by only being long enough to cover his heck. I do believe that in their day, a man's hair was that long...it was short in comparison.

But here in our day, short hair means it doesn't grow past the nap of the neck.

Customs, customs...

Alan · Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 05:37:42

Quote from: SwordMaster on Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 00:48:03
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:41:55
Men are supposed to have short hair.

How short?

In Jesus' day, the women had hair that went down to below the waist or longer...so in relation, a man's hair could be shorter by only being long enough to cover his heck. I do believe that in their day, a man's hair was that long...it was short in comparison.

But here in our day, short hair means it doesn't grow past the nap of the neck.

Customs, customs...

Yep, every depiction of Jesus shows His hair to his shoulders, we mustn't misinterpret Paul's words.

SwordMaster · Mon Apr 24, 2017 - 01:15:41

Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 05:37:42
Quote from: SwordMaster on Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 00:48:03
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:41:55
Men are supposed to have short hair.

How short?

In Jesus' day, the women had hair that went down to below the waist or longer...so in relation, a man's hair could be shorter by only being long enough to cover his heck. I do believe that in their day, a man's hair was that long...it was short in comparison.

But here in our day, short hair means it doesn't grow past the nap of the neck.

Customs, customs...

Yep, every depiction of Jesus shows His hair to his shoulders, we mustn't misinterpret Paul's words.

I wasn't thinking of pictures...but rather of historical recordings of their customs of their day...

Alan · Mon Apr 24, 2017 - 07:21:55

Quote from: SwordMaster on Mon Apr 24, 2017 - 01:15:41
Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 05:37:42
Quote from: SwordMaster on Sat Apr 22, 2017 - 00:48:03
Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 - 13:41:55
Men are supposed to have short hair.

How short?

In Jesus' day, the women had hair that went down to below the waist or longer...so in relation, a man's hair could be shorter by only being long enough to cover his heck. I do believe that in their day, a man's hair was that long...it was short in comparison.

But here in our day, short hair means it doesn't grow past the nap of the neck.

Customs, customs...

Yep, every depiction of Jesus shows His hair to his shoulders, we mustn't misinterpret Paul's words.

I wasn't thinking of pictures...but rather of historical recordings of their customs of their day...

Same thing, since we don't actually have pictures, depictions are based upon historical data.

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