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Imagine you are a mainstream Protestant Christian who faithfully believes that one is saved by faith through grace, and not by works.  And certain detractors of your religion twist your rejections of works as a means of salvation, and instead claim that your church teaches that it is okay to  be a murderer and a rapist as long as you believe in Christ. And no matter how much you argue, or how often you show evidence to the contrary, these detractors continue to insist and promulgate such falsehoods.

Or say you are a Roman Catholic, who finds yourself defending your faith from accusations that your church still teaches or supports the selling of indulgences. Because, if your church did it then, they must condone it now, right?

Maybe you are forced to defend the doctrine of the Trinity from those who, through misinformation or willful ignorance insist on telling you that you believe God must be deranged because he talks to himself. Indeed, imagine enemies of your faith latching on to any and every statement ever made by any church leader in your history and insisting that their private interpretation or opinion is officially binding on the entire church.

Imagine what it's like to routinely have others tell you that they know what you believe better than you do.

That's what it's like being a Mormon defending his beliefs against often hostile critics. I've experienced it on this forum and others, in person and online, people insisting I believe something or the church 'officially' teaches something. And when I show incontrovertible proof that they are wrong, they ignore it and insist still that the anti-Mormon pamphlet they bought online or that counter-cult website or their preacher are a more reliable authority on Mormon theology than an actual practicing Mormon.

What IS official Mormon Doctrine?

It's pretty simple, really, and as such, no excuse for misrepresenting our beliefs exists. Our official doctrine is contained within the four books we consider scripture. In order for something to be officially accepted as doctrine binding upon the church, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles present it to the general membership of the church during general conference and if it is sustained by the members of the church, it becomes Doctrine, binding upon the Saints. B.H. Roberts, a general authority from a while back summed it up this way:

"The church has confined the sources of doctrine by which it is willing to be bound before the world to the things that God has revealed and which the church has officially accepted and those alone. ...the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price...are the only sources of absolute appeal for our doctrine."

That is why our Scriptures are called the Standard Works: They are the standard by which every other doctrine ,policy precept and comment is measured. So if a church leader says something that directly contradicts holy writ, the Scriptures win out. As a caveat, this does not mean that anything NOT accepted as official must be wrong, only that the members of the church have no moral or religious obligation to accept it as doctrine. The Pythagorean Theorem is probably true, but it is not officially recognized doctgrine from God until it is presented before the church for a sustaining vote.

What about statements made by our prophets and apostles?

The leaders of our church are inspired men.  truly, listening to their sermons, one can know that the Spirit is with them. When they speak, I receive confirmation fro the Spirit that their words are true and inspired. And as God's authorized servants, they are almost always instep with God's word. But, they are men, fallible men subject to mistakes, misinterpretation and personal opinions. 1)If they say something that flatly contradicts our Scriptures, we know they are speaking of themselves and that they may be either in error, or they need to clarify their position more thoroughly. 2)If a church leader says something that does not contradict our scriptures, but is not found within their pages either, we can seek our own personal revelation as to the  validity of the claim. As such, you might have some Mormons accept a certain position, while others reject it and they are both members in good standing.

To illustrate point one,  Brigham Young once made a comment that Adam is our father and our god, the infamous Adam-God theory. Since our Scriptures plainly teach that Adam was the archangel Michael in the Pre-existence, we can know that President Young was either mistaken, or his words were recorded wrong, or he meant something else and he never elucidated further. AS for point 2, consider Joseph Smith's King Follett Discourse where he claimed that God was once as man is now, implying that God was once mortal. This does not contradict our Scriptures, so it might be true, but since this discourse was never put forth by the First Presidency and the Q12, or sustained by the membership, we need not accept it as binding or true.

In Summary

The only things that are official in their treatment of doctrine are the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. Other statements, writings, comments, sermons or doctrinal treatise are generally sound, are inspired and useful for making sense and applying the Scriptures in our lives, but are NOT the base foundation of our beliefs.

The Journal of Discourses is not official Doctrine. A single statement made by a church leader does not constitute an official teaching of the church. If you ever hear that Mormons believe such and such a doctrine, ask for the Scriptural citation. If none can be provided, then it can be dismissed as spurious.

Final Thought

I believe our teachings are misconstrued sometimes because of the nefarious intentions of wicked people hoping to lead others astray. But I think many err because they come from a tradition that preaches biblical and prophetic infallibility; that the Scriptures must be 100 percent correct or they are not of God, that a prophet must be near perfect, or he is a false teacher. We hold to no such thought as biblical and prophetic inerrancy and acknowledge that mortal humans make mistakes. Understanding the basis for how we discern truth will go a long way in clearing up misconceptions.

I only ask that you not believe everything you read about us. Much of what is out there about us is false and misleading. If you really want to know what Mormons believe, read their Scriptures, or better yet, ask  one personally.. We're always happy to talk about our faith.

If you're interested in learning what Mormons REALLY believe, I recommend the book, Under The Banner Of Heaven.

This post is a post about classic false religion.    Religion points to men and what they do.   This post is all about the "church" and nothing about the One who is the leader of the real church, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mormonism and the Bible are not compatible.   The main character of the Bible is Jesus Christ, the one and only, unique Son of God, and the theme of the Bible is redemption.    God Almighty provided salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.   His blood was the sin payment that God demanded.   Joseph Smith brought nothing.  He began a cult and today he still has blind followers.   Christ said "it is finished."  No more work and no more revelation is needed.   

QuoteIf you're interested in learning what Mormons REALLY believe, I recommend the book, Under The Banner Of Heaven.

Alas, my words have fallen on deaf ears. This is the exact thing I was talking about. Think of what you are saying. In order to learn what Mormons really believe, rather than listen to church leaders, reading the Scriptures or asking practicing Mormons, you suggest they get their information from an avowed atheist who profits from badmouthing religion and who know nothing about Mormonism. You and I have discussed this book in the past and I have thoroughly shown how misinformed this book is. If you glean your understanding of Mormonism from this book then you truly know nothing of our religion. I suppose had you lived two thousand years ago, you would have formed your opinion of Jesus and his disciples by listening to the scribes and pharisees too, wouldn't you?

Quote
This post is a post about classic false religion.    Religion points to men and what they do.   This post is all about the "church" and nothing about the One who is the leader of the real church, the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has nothing to do with anything. I was not arguing the supremacy of the church vs the authority of Jesus. I was bemoaning how often my beliefs are blatantly misrepresented.

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Mormonism and the Bible are not compatible.   The main character of the Bible is Jesus Christ, the one and only, unique Son of God, and the theme of the Bible is redemption.    God Almighty provided salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.   His blood was the sin payment that God demanded.   Joseph Smith brought nothing.  He began a cult and today he still has blind followers.   Christ said "it is finished."  No more work and no more revelation is needed.   

Have you no better argument to make than "it's a cult?" How cliche. It is what people who cannot win the argument on its merits use to discredit further thought and discussion. Theological name calling and nothing else. Claiming another's faith is a cult is a rather serious charge, and given that, I'm sure you have an iron-clad definition in mind. I'd like to hear it. I bet whatever definition you have would also ensnare first century Christianity.

Do you really believe "it is finished" meant to insinuate that Christ would no longer work among men? I suppose, then, that this means you reject all revelations in the New Testament that follow the crucifixion? You must reject Christ's appearance to his disciples, the great commission and the forty days of instructions. You must also reject Peter's revelation to take the gospel to the gentiles. Forget about the gift of prophecy spoken of by Paul. Christ's work is finished, so he would never again enlighten Man with prophecies. And you must have torn out the Revelation of John, given that revelations ended with the crucifixion. Last I knew, John received his revelations well after the crucifixion. And doesn't Revelation speak of two prophets prophesying in the last days? Odd, if Christ no longer does that kind of thing.

The irony here is that you say my beliefs are not in line with the Bible. What you have just written is patently contradicted in the Biblical text.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8xwfqxJvE

A great testimony from a man who did not find Jesus Christ in the Mormon Church.   


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEdVBzrYy00

A fourth generation former Mormon who wants Mormons to recognize the truth.   

There is very good information in this man's teaching, especially concerning Mormon practices in their 140 temples.   A Mormon or Mormons has even been baptized in behalf of Adolf Hitler.   

Quotehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8xwfqxJvE

A great testimony from a man who did not find Jesus Christ in the Mormon Church. 

Okay...so if I upload a video to youtube bearing witness of the myriad ways I have found Jesus Christ through my twenty years as a Mormon, would you accept that? Or are you, like the author of "Under the Banner of Heaven," only willing to accept information that conforms to your preconceived biases?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEdVBzrYy00

A fourth generation former Mormon who wants Mormons to recognize the truth. 

And as a second generation current Mormon, I wish this man would recognize his error and return to the truth

QuoteThere is very good information in this man's teaching, especially concerning Mormon practices in their 140 temples.   A Mormon or Mormons has even been baptized in behalf of Adolf Hitler.

Do you know who also has very good teachings...concerning the temple? Mormons. You should really ask them what they really believe and keep an open mind. Maybe, just maybe, you'll finally realize that the garbage being spoonfed to you from hostile critics of the church is a whole lot of nothing. That is, if you are actually interested in learning what Mormons are actually about. If all you want to do is spread falsehoods and believe any lie that comes your way just because it confirms your own opinion, by all means, continue on your current course.

Why Adolf Hitler is germane to the conversation, I haven't the foggiest. It's not surprising, given the nature of temple work and its purpose in furthering God's plan.

LOL.

What Christian WANTS to be a murderer or rapist?out

Shall we talk about blood atonement?

QuoteShall we talk about blood atonement?

Yes, let's. With as little knowledge as you have displayed about what Mormons actually believe and practice, I am relatively certain you are just as uninformed on this topic as you have been on everything else.

Quote from: the_last_gunslinger on Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 21:00:07
Yes, let's. With as little knowledge as you have displayed about what Mormons actually believe and practice, I am relatively certain you are just as uninformed on this topic as you have been on everything else.

Great.

Can you give me an explanation of what this is, please?

Who attacked who first?

Vol 6: Christianity is "a perfect pack of nonsense" (John Taylor, Jan 17, 1858, p. 167)
Vol 6: Religions of today are hatched in hell (Brigham Young, Jan. 17, 1858, p. 176)
Vol 18: Christian churches called Babylon (Orson Pratt, March 26, 1876, p. 179)

Vol 6: Christians are ignorant (George D. Watt, Nov. 1, 1857, p. 25)
Vol 7: Christians are shrouded in ignorance, reading scriptures in ignorance (Brigham Young, Oct. 8, 1859, p. 333)
Vol 8: Christians are ignorant to true theology (Brigham Young, Oct. 7, 1860, p. 199)
Vol 13: Christians are ignorant of who God really is (Brigham Young, July 11, 1869, p. 144)

Vol 5: Christians are groveling in darkness (Brigham Young, July 26, 1857, p. 73)
Vol 5: Christians are "biggest whoremasters" on the earth (Heber C. Kimball, July 26, 1857, pp. 89-90)
Vol 8: Christians are heathens (Brigham Young, Sept. 16, 1860, p. 171)
Vol 10: Christians are like a ship without the rudder (Brigham Young, Oct. 6, 1863, p. 265)
Vol 10: Christians are not true Christians (Brigham Young, July 8, 1863, p. 230)
Vol 13: "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing" (John Taylor, May 6, 1870, p. 225)
Vol 24: Christianity is not a religion that satisfies (George Q. Cannon, July 15, 1883, p. 185)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent".- Apostle Orson Pratt proclaimed, The Seer, p. 255

"There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 2, pp. 1-350.)"—Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670

"Nothing less than a COMPLETE apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."—History of the Church, vol. 1, p. XL