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QuoteYou will have to expand upon your point. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you quoting from the book The Desire of Ages? I didn't see what you quoted in the chapter The Lord is Risen. Perhaps you could provide more detail and expound upon your point.

Then you haven't read with attention. It is there, written in plain print letter by letter. Read the chapter after as well.

I had the book twice in my life. The first one I gave to a SDA pastor together with my whole library of E.G. White's books after I left the church. Many years later I received an extract as a gift, titled, 'The Passion of Love' or something. And this was where I quoted from. That book I donated with my whole library to the University of Potchefstroom, so I don't have it available anymore to give you page and paragraph. But I am telling you now, that is what is written in Desire of Ages. The first time I referred to these pronouncements by E. G. White on an internet discussion board, 'Babtistboard.com', it was in a discourse with 'BobRyan'. IT IS ARCHIVED in BB's archives. And I backed them up myself. You will find those discussions in my google cloud. Why I tell you this? Because I was the first and only person yet to have used publication of the SDA church of Mrs Whites writings through internet re THESE QUOTES, which I POSTED in those discussions on BB. I repeated the internet references in our debate, and when I checked them up again THEY WERE CUT OUT and were no more to be found. Even BobRyan tried to apologise and said something must have happened so that the internet version no longer correlated with the physical book, DA!

I don't know what happened after, but enter the quotes I gave you on the search engine of the Ellen White trustees or whatever they / it may be called nowadays. Best of course remains, go read properly, and don't come an tell me stories. There are tens of thousands of paper editions of DA in the world.

Mrs White E.G. wrote that book; the SDA church published that book and still does. And over and above there is God Almighty the True and Only Witness. Mrs. White and the SDA church TEACH SUNDAY VENERATION.

But what is a greater truth, is that Mrs E. G. White and the SDA church STOLE THE SABBATH DAY'S ONLY HONOUR --the honour of having been the day Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON, and changed the Times and Law of GOD, and bestowed that only honour ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, SUNDAY. It is an historical fact.

DMA:

QuoteEllen White taught that the Lord Jesus is the antitype of the "wave sheaf", that His resurrection occurred on the day mentioned in Leviticus 23 regarding the feast of first fruits, as it is written in The Desire of Ages:

Quote from: The Desire of Ages, Chapter 81
Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord.

I believe that Mrs. White is right regarding the above. The Lord Jesus does represent the fulfillment of the wave sheaf offering. But it is interesting to note a couple of things here:

1. She said that the resurrection took place on the very day of the wave sheaf offering.

2. She said that the wave sheaf was "a thank offering" to God.

Before I comment on these two points, let's first look at the feast she's referring to as recorded for us in Leviticus chapter 23:

Quote from: Leviticus 23:9-14
9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Just a few things to note from the passage above:

1. This is something that would be done only after the people of God came into the land He was giving them. (verse 10)

2. This is an offering that would be brought to the priest. (ibid.)

3. The priest would wave this offering before the Lord on behalf of the congregation. (verse 11)

4. This liturgical worship (all Bible worship was liturgical in nature) would take place on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. (ibid.)

5. There were additional offerings of a lamb, grain (i.e. bread), and wine. (verses 12 & 13)

Taking these points from the aforementioned passage, I would submit that we have here the complete liturgical worship of the Church in type. We have the offering being brought to the priest, or in the context of the Church it is brought to the presiding bishop or presbyter. The offering is Christ Himself since He is the sheaf, the lamb (see 1 Corinthians 5:7), the bread (grain) and wine (see Matthew 26:26-29) which would be the Holy Communion. They offer it on behalf of themselves and the congregation. The liturgy takes place on the day after the Sabbath which is obviously Sunday. And this liturgical worship wouldn't start until the people of God entered into the land He was going to give them, i.e. the land of Canaan, the land of promise, which was a type of the Church itself, the kingdom of God on earth (compare Hebrews chapter 11:8-10 with chapter 12:22-24). The Church didn't exist before Christ promised to build it with His Holy Apostles (see Matthew 16:18), therefore the Church is the land of promise, the city whose builder and maker is God Himself.

Now if we combine the points already gleaned from Leviticus 23 with those mentioned by Ellen White we come to a complete picture. She said that Christ's resurrection happened on the very day of this liturgical worship offering of the sheaf, and she referred to it as "a thank offering" to God. I would just like to point out that the Church, from the very beginning, has celebrated the Holy Communion as Eucharist (Greek Εὐχαριστία, meaning Thanksgiving) on the Day of the Resurrection, i.e. Sunday, as her primary day of worship. This was all foretold by prophetic utterance through the Prophet Moses in Leviticus 23:9-14 which followed after the liturgical feast of the Passover (Pascha in Greek) in verses 4-8. Just as the feast of first fruits followed after Passover in the Old Covenant, even so the worship of the Church follows after the offering of Christ Himself, our Passover in the New Covenant. And according to scripture, this worship happens on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. Therefore, the worship of the Church on Sunday, the Day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, of the Holy Eucharist (Thanksgiving) to God for His offering to us of His Son, our Passover, who conquered death for us, setting us free from its clutches, is a direct fulfillment of scripture.

It is good to argue with straight forward, clear and plain argument. Both ways.

I find one objectionable ASSUMPTION the basis and crux of your whole argumentation though, 'the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday'. I am sure you know the counter
and true and only correct, stance.

Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Fri Oct 27, 2017 - 14:34:58
Then you haven't read with attention. It is there, written in plain print letter by letter. Read the chapter after as well.

I had the book twice in my life. The first one I gave to a SDA pastor together with my whole library of E.G. White's books after I left the church. Many years later I received an extract as a gift, titled, 'The Passion of Love' or something. And this was where I quoted from. That book I donated with my whole library to the University of Potchefstroom, so I don't have it available anymore to give you page and paragraph. But I am telling you now, that is what is written in Desire of Ages. The first time I referred to these pronouncements by E. G. White on an internet discussion board, 'Babtistboard.com', it was in a discourse with 'BobRyan'. IT IS ARCHIVED in BB's archives. And I backed them up myself. You will find those discussions in my google cloud. Why I tell you this? Because I was the first and only person yet to have used publication of the SDA church of Mrs Whites writings through internet re THESE QUOTES, which I POSTED in those discussions on BB. I repeated the internet references in our debate, and when I checked them up again THEY WERE CUT OUT and were no more to be found. Even BobRyan tried to apologise and said something must have happened so that the internet version no longer correlated with the physical book, DA!

I don't know what happened after, but enter the quotes I gave you on the search engine of the Ellen White trustees or whatever they / it may be called nowadays. Best of course remains, go read properly, and don't come an tell me stories. There are tens of thousands of paper editions of DA in the world.

Mrs White E.G. wrote that book; the SDA church published that book and still does. And over and above there is God Almighty the True and Only Witness. Mrs. White and the SDA church TEACH SUNDAY VENERATION.

But what is a greater truth, is that Mrs E. G. White and the SDA church STOLE THE SABBATH DAY'S ONLY HONOUR --the honour of having been the day Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON, and changed the Times and Law of GOD, and bestowed that only honour ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, SUNDAY. It is an historical fact.

Your problem is not with EGW or the SDA church, it is with scripture. According to scripture Christ rose on Sunday. As of yet the SDA church does not venerate Sunday sacredness, though in the future no doubt many professing to be SDA will. If you have been keeping up with this SDA thread at all, and think it is involved in the veneration of Sunday sacredness, I can only conclude that you are either willingly ignorant of what has been discussed here, or are in very serious denial of the same. 
Christ rose on Sunday, a most monumental event in the history of humanity. This does not mean in any way shape or form that the day was or is meant to replace Christ's seventh day Sabbath. The scriptures do not support any such notion.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.


Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him..........................................
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


Lk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.


Jn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. 2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. 3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. 10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home. 11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. 13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. 14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

The above testimony is what you need to address and prove wrong if you want to convince anyone of what you are claiming. It is scripture, and therefore above all other testimony and of the greatest authority. EGW and SDA's believe it above your or any other testimony. Prove this wrong, and we can go from there.

Don't try run away from the only thing disputed here and now, which is, that Ellen White wrote in the DA what she wrote in the DA about Sunday AS the day on which Jesus according to her and all SDA rose from the dead, and that all SDA BELIEVE HER and are not SDA if they don't believe her.

Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Sun Oct 29, 2017 - 18:39:32
Don't try run away from the only thing disputed here and now, which is, that Ellen White wrote in the DA what she wrote in the DA about Sunday AS the day on which Jesus according to her and all SDA rose from the dead, and that all SDA BELIEVE HER and are not SDA if they don't believe her.

Nobody is running away from anything, save in your own head perhaps. It is right for SDA's and all others to believe what the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Any SDA or otherwise that believes anything according to EGW or anyone else above a conflicting testimony from scripture, is seeing things backwards and in danger of deception.

QuoteThe above testimony is what you need to address and prove wrong if you want to convince anyone of what you are claiming. It is scripture, and therefore above all other testimony and of the greatest authority. EGW and SDA's believe it above your or any other testimony. Prove this wrong, and we can go from there.

I don't have to proof a thing. It is you and SDA and rest of Christianity who have to prove because ALL Scripture, especially these Scriptures you have now quoted, witness to the most basic and essential Truth of the WHOLE Bible that Jesus Christ 1) WOULD, and 2) DID rise from the dead, death and grave "the third day...ON THE SABBATH". Matthew 27:62-28:4.

Matthew 28:1 IN the end of the Sabbath, as it mid-afternoon began to dawn toward the First Day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary set out TO see the sepulchre 2 when suddenly there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it : 3 his countenance like lightning, and his raiment white as snow : 4 and for fear of him the keepers convulsing like ones dying. 5 And the angel answered / explained and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he IS RISEN as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord LAY. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he IS RISEN from the dead. And, behold, he [Sunday morning already] is on his way before you to Galilee; there
shall ye [during 40 days] see him : lo, I have told you.


Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
No resurrection! Resurrection was "mid-afternoon Sabbath" at least three hours ago!


Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away [Resurrection PAST]: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him..........................................

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen=RISEN, He, early the first day of the week APPEARED [Verb of the sentence] first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
NO resurrection, no ACT of rising but of APPEARING!

Lk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
NO resurrection, no ACT of rising but of FINDING NO BODY!

John 20:1 On the First Day of the week comes Mary Magdalene BEING STILL EARLY DARK = DUSK [after sunset, evening] to [not 'in'] the sepulchre, and sees the STONE [not the grave or inside it] taken away from the sepulchre. 2 Then she runs [back and didn't go in], and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. [She thought Jesus was still dead!]

John 3:3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed [what Mary had told them; and she did not tell them Jesus resurrected!]. 9 For as yet they knew not the Scripture, that he had to rise again from the dead. 10 THEN the disciples went away again unto their own home. 11 But Mary HAD HAD stood after without at the sepulchre, weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. 13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. [Mary was still thinking Jesus was dead! Not raised!] 14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener [who would start working sunrise], saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. Cf., Mark 16:9.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
For what do you bring this Scripture here, to prove Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday evening?!

QuoteNobody is running away from anything, save in your own head perhaps. It is right for SDA's and all others to believe what the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Any SDA or otherwise that believes anything according to EGW or anyone else above a conflicting testimony from scripture, is seeing things backwards and in danger of deception.

PLACE the Scripture HERE, WHERE 'the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week.'! I, this lowest of stones that shall shout out the Truth, DARE YOU AND ANY! and will show you, 'backward things' of 'deception' and fraud to compromise the Sabbath of the LORD for the sake of SUNDAY WORSHIP SACREDNESS: LIKE MRS WHITE DID.

I'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

Mk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,.....................
16:1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.....................................................
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Jesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath. When the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week which began sundown Saturday night, they went to the sepulcher. While the above does not establish that Jesus actually rose on the first day, it certainly does not establish either that He rose on the Sabbath. In either case, no one knew about the resurrection until Sunday morning, and neither Christ nor any angels ever said He rose on the Sabbath. To the contrary, Jesus' resurrection is only referred to in relation to the first day of the week as in verse nine, never the seventh day of the week or Sabbath. The most logical conclusion regarding the matter is that Christ rose right before or at dawn on the first day of the week. Even if you want to insist that verse nine only says Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, not that He rose early the first day of the week, no scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath. Which Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

Lk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before going to the sepulcher. The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen, not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath. There is no logical reason for concluding such, without any statement to that effect.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.....................................
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

All scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week. No scripture says, or even hints that Christ rose on Sabbath before sundown. Any who believe so simply chose to do this apart from any scriptural testimony or inclination. Believe as you wish, but you cannot make the scriptures out to testify that Christ rose on the Sabbath, or deny that they certainly highly suggest that He did rise on the first day of the week. Nevertheless, and again, none of this changes any of the ten commandments of God including the fourth, nor was ever meant to. Those who wish to maintain a man made tradition of Sunday sacredness certainly have a right to do so, but they have no right to force their tradition upon others as they have, do, and will continue to do so. Nor do they have any support from scripture concerning either. To the contrary, God Himself has chosen their deception and allowed for the exaltation of the same, according to His own plans. That all may be decided concerning a relatively simply issue which clearly identifies one's motives concerning God, before He returns to end and settle all matters of this very temporary world.

God established both the seventh day Sabbath, and the mortality of mankind at creation and recorded both in the testimony of His word to the same. The final deception will include a repudiation of both of the same.

QuoteI'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Nor does the New Testament say that Jesus rose on any day of the week. It says many times that Christ rose; but not in so many words ever, 'on' or 'in' this, or 'on' or 'in' that, day of the week, because it not at all says Christ, 'rose', on or in this or that, or, 'rose', after this or that day of the week. That Jesus 'rose' on a day of the week is always implied, and the day of the week implied is always, certainly, and only, the Sabbath yet only, implied. But... Never on a Sunday, a Sunday.... tra la la... nice love song, but not Gospel. Not the Gospels not the New Testament say in direct words either, Jesus rose on the Sabbath, or, Jesus rose on the First Day.

The New Testament as the Old Testament never in the least even suggests Christ would rise from the dead on the First Day of the week though. But both, throughout and clearly and abundantly, promise and prophesy and figure forth and prove, that He would and had to and eventually actually did rise from the grave and death, "on the day, the Seventh Day, Sabbath : OF THE LORD GOD."

In the Old Testament not surprising, one does find one statement in so many words that the LORD, Jesus Christ, "revived on the Seventh Day". Exodus 31:17.

The moment one claims that the New Testament states that Jesus in so many words rose on the Sabbath or that Jesus in so many words rose on the First Day, he at once with his arrogance proves his ignorance and inability to rightly deal with God's Word.

Amo:

QuoteI'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

GE answers:
It was by that which Amo said: "on Sunday or the first day of the week"
It was by that which Matthew said: "toward the first day of the week"

It was by that which Amo said: "dawn on the first day of the week"
It was by that which Matthew said: "in the end of / late on the sabbath"
So much for 'certain inference' and 'logical conclusion' to Amo's 'understanding'. There is much more that must be inferred and concluded but cannot be read so literally in English as in the Greek, must also be 'understood'.

QuoteThe Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

GE answers:
The Sabbath ends, sun down (Saturday) when every eye can see it. But, "As it on the Sabbath began to dawn towards the First Day", it "being-mid-afternoon in the end of the Sabbath", everyone could see "it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week".

'The only dawn logically being referred to in' Matthew 28:1, 'would be', and because it's in Matthew 28:1 which is Scripture, in fact was from, "mid-afternoon late on the Sabbath, towards the First Day of the week" starting 'sundown Saturday' sharp. Which 'dawn' then actually began "mid-afternoon" three hours before, 'sundown Saturday'!

If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

QuoteMk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,.....................
16:1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome,

GE answers:
You have quoted, exactly,
Q~Mk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,......~Q

Now tell me two things,
First, How the heck achieved you that giant jump, from, Q~the day before the sabbath,~Q  to,  Q~6:1And when the sabbath was past~Q?!

O I know how! With SDA right of Scripture interpretation! Don't worry, SDA aren't restricted by what's written under '.............', they have the SOP that elevates them above mortals like those who still depend on what has been buried under the thin, perforated, film of '............'.

Now tell me the other thing,
Two, What the heck have you buried under, Q~the day before the sabbath,.....................16:1And when the sabbath was past~Q?!
That Q~Jesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath. When the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week~Q?!
Too fantasic for words or comprehension the brilliance of the SDA! The cunning, so masterly!

Wait, don't get too elated. You only managed to clear jump the abbyss all usual good Christian believers before you have been misled to follow over after their leaders. God will bring them, and you, all to task for it yet, don't worry.

Amo:

QuoteJesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath.

GE:
You cannot quote anything like 'Jesus died' from the space in or between Mark 15:42 and 16:1. So you inserted your dots instead

Amo:

QuoteWhen the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week which began sundown Saturday night, they went to the sepulcher.

GE:
They didn't go to the sepulcher; they went to the grocer and "bought spices".

Amo:

QuoteWhile the above does not establish that Jesus actually rose on the first day, it certainly does not establish either that He rose on the Sabbath.

GE:
What have you expected? When Joseph arrived, he had not even buried the body of Jesus!

Amo:

QuoteIn either case, no one knew about the resurrection until Sunday morning

GE:
Exactly. Does that say that He rose on the First Day? Not rather that He HAD resurrected the day before, "on the Sabbath"?

Amo:

Quoteneither Christ nor any angels ever said He rose on the Sabbath.

GE:
Who said they said? But Jesus, said, that the Servant --ox or donkey-- of the Lord on the Sabbath would be lifted from the pit and given living water to drink.

Amo:

QuoteTo the contrary, Jesus' resurrection is only referred to in relation to the first day of the week as in verse nine, never the seventh day of the week or Sabbath.

GE:
Non sequitur... we're not referring to 'verse nine' which is Mark 16:9 now never seen before in this discussion! Another giant leap of yours for mankind?! From Mark 15:42 to Mark 16:9 covering Crucifixion to Resurrection as if nothing in between whatsoever in Mark or in any other Gospel happened... amazing vacuous 'logic', 'The most logical conclusion regarding the matter is that Christ rose right before or at dawn on the first day of the week'!

Amo:

QuoteEven if you want to insist that verse nine only says Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, not that He rose early the first day of the week, no scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath. Which Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

GE:
Again 'the matter' here and now is not about Mark16:9; it's about you alleging Christ resurrected in the text starting in Mark 15:42. Pure futility of course.

And again, no one says (me too, remember!), 'scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath.' If you mean I do, then you're clearly lying, simply--- unless you mean Scripture 'says', by implication, sure, I insist!

But you are perfectly correct, it's unambiguous,
Amo:

QuoteWhich Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

GE:
It is high time you see that, yourself!

You may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath.

Amo:

QuoteLk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before going to the sepulcher. The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen, not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath. There is no logical reason for concluding such, without any statement to that effect.

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before anyone got to the sepulcher. True; I said no less, no more, no different.

Now, Q~The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen~Q True; I said no less, no more, no different. So what's your problem? This...

Amo:

Quote...not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath.

GE answers:
That isn't correct or true. It's false; it directly contradicts what is written in Matthew 28:5a and what only Matthew wrote, the "ANGEL EXPLAINED / ANSWERED the women" about the conclusive EVIDENCE that Jesus resurrected: "on the Sabbath late, being in the mid-afternoon daylight of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week ... and there suddenly was a great earthquake ...".
Yes, the report was it of only this angel who —on Sunday morning—, "informed the women" thus.

There is no 'logical reason for concluding such', needed, of course not; we have the testimony of the angel who "testified / explained / informed / witnessed". What would any true believer need else or better or to the contrary 'to the effect' that Jesus did not rise "on the Sabbath late, being in the mid-afternoon daylight of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week ... and there suddenly was a great earthquake ..."? It's absurd!

QuoteYou may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath. 

For lack of self-confidence, lack of Scripture, lack of Truth, lack of order to the confusion... my condolences.

Amo:

Quote
John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.....................................
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

All scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
There is no 'scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath'. You haven't presented any, 'scriptural testimony'; you never will, because there never will be Scriptural testimony than what there at present is.

Amo:

Quotesome time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
Any time 'after sundown Sabbath', is 'during the evening of the first day off the week'.
Correct! Did I say something else?!
But how can what is 'during the evening of the first day off the week', be 'at dawn on the first day of the week'?! It's absurd again!

And here you are doing it, again, burying everything in between John 20:1 and John 20:19 under '..........' as if it never occurred and 20:1 and verse 19 happened at once while there was at least 24 hours, yes, a whole day and the dusk of the second day, in between!
Now remember, This, you, selected under the comprehensive list of texts in which 'the bible says', though not in 'the exact words', 'that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week', 'the same day'—three, nay, four days before! AND with which you ostensibly prove,
Amo:

QuoteAll scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
Flabbergasting! Flabbergastingly dishonest, sir; Sir SDA!

Amo:

QuoteNo scripture says, or even hints that Christ rose on Sabbath before sundown. Any who believe so simply chose to do this apart from any scriptural testimony or inclination. Believe as you wish, but you cannot make the scriptures out to testify that Christ rose on the Sabbath, or deny that they certainly highly suggest that He did rise on the first day of the week. Nevertheless, and again, none of this changes any of the ten commandments of God including the fourth, nor was ever meant to. Those who wish to maintain a man made tradition of Sunday sacredness certainly have a right to do so, but they have no right to force their tradition upon others as they have, do, and will continue to do so. Nor do they have any support from scripture concerning either. To the contrary, God Himself has chosen their deception and allowed for the exaltation of the same, according to His own plans. That all may be decided concerning a relatively simply issue which clearly identifies one's motives concerning God, before He returns to end and settle all matters of this very temporary world.

God established both the seventh day Sabbath, and the mortality of mankind at creation and recorded both in the testimony of His word to the same. The final deception will include a repudiation of both of the same. 

GE answers:
You oppose your opponent who probably knows you better than you know yourself, and your doctrines, most definitely. But you oppose your opponent whom you don't know at all, and his doctrine, even less.
So I'll let you off the hook this time for sheer sympathy, and love for my worst friends and foes.

QuoteYou may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath.

Just because Mrs E.G. White said so. I pity you people. May God open your eyes

Yea cause everyone knows, that everyone who believes Christ rose on Sunday, does so because EGW said so, right. Again, I leave you to your quackery. Why do you think it is so very important which day Christ rose on? Do you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath? Why would you think such? There is no scripture to back this notion up. Do you wish it to be so, because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness?

QuoteYea cause everyone knows, that everyone who believes Christ rose on Sunday, does so because EGW said so, right. Again, I leave you to your quackery. Why do you think it is so very important which day Christ rose on?

It is so important that Christ rose on Sunday for you, Amo and all SDA, that it is 'quackery' just the idea the Scriptures don't say He rose on Sunday but that it says "on the Sabbath". You actually say it is of no importance what the Scriptures say, Because Mrs. White says it was on Sunday. For you, there's no other reason than that Mrs. White says on Sunday. Therefore for you, Scriptures are the 'quackery'.

QuoteDo you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath?

I believe that Jesus rose upon "the Sabbath" is the only truth which supports the commandment that it should be the holy "day the Sabbath of the LORD GOD"... Not that it should 'replace God's Sabbath'.

QuoteDo you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath? Why would you think such? There is no scripture to back this notion up. Do you wish it to be so, because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness? 

I believe the day of the week Jesus rose upon was the holy day of God's Sabbath the Seventh Day of the week.
Why would I think such?
Why would or should I not think or believe such in the light of all the Scriptures stating and proving 'such'---that Christ rose from the grave "on the Sabbath when there occurred a great earthquake mid-afternoon of / on the Sabbath before the First Day of the week"? While this Scripture --Matthew 28:1-4--, 'back this notion up'?

WHY don't YOU, wish it to be so? Because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness?

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath begins Friday at evening, and ends Saturday evening, long before dawn on the first day of the week which day also begins at dusk Saturday evening. The above verse simply means what another scripture more clearly and plainly states, that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun................

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Why do you reject the above testimony? Is it not because it does not support what you have chosen to believe?

Lk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Why do you reject the above testimony of scripture as well? Is it not for the same reason? What more can scripture say? The Sabbath was over, it was the first day of the week near or at dawn. If this is wrong, please expound and state your case as to how and why with more than just the vagueness of the Mt 28 statement which is given more clarity by the scriptures I have quoted.

Amo:

QuoteMt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath begins Friday at evening, and ends Saturday evening, long before dawn on the first day of the week which day also begins at dusk Saturday evening. The above verse simply means what another scripture more clearly and plainly states, that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.

GE answers:

"In the end of the sabbath" = "in the ending of the Sabbath" = "late on the Sabbath"---in ALL English Bibles from Tyndale's to the beginning of the 20th century.

It was "Sabbath's-time" Genitive, of time and or quality and or possession.

If it were 'after' the Sabbath, 'sabbath'-[sabbatohn] would have had to be Accusative, 'sabbaton'; but it is not.

If it were after the Sabbath 'on' the First Day, 'first day'-[Mian sabbatohn] Accusative, would have had to be Genitive [mias] or Dative, 'Miai'. But it is not.

And the Adverb 'opse'- "late" would have had to be 'prohï'- 'early'; and the Preposition 'eis'- "towards" / "unto" / "against" would have had to be omitted or be something else like 'en'- "in".

And many more things to the same effect, that it was NOT 'before dawn on the first day of the week ... after the Sabbath', but just what the KJV says, 'In the end of the Sabbath towards the First Day'.

Also, NO Scripture 'clearly and plainly' or just vaguely, states that 'Mary went' to the sepulcher 'after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.' NO Scripture.

Amo:

QuoteMk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun................

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Why do you reject the above testimony? Is it not because it does not support what you have chosen to believe?

GE answers:
I do not reject the testimony of Mark in any one place or more.
But you treat Mark 16:1 as equals it Mark 16:2 as equals it Mark 16:9 as equals it Matthew 28:1-4.

I fully and unconditionally accept the testimomy of the above and all Scripture literally and historically true and correct, that, "Having been resurrected..." or, "When Jesus was risen..." or, "As the Risen One..." or, "Resurrected, He, Jesus, early on the First Day of the week APPEARED, first, to Mary Magdalene..."

You are no better of than those who claim He rose on Sunday. The scriptures do not specifically state which day HE rose upon. Even the Mt 28 account simply says an angel rolled away the stone, not that Christ rose at that time. He apparently didn't roll away the stone to reveal Christ's resurrection, but the fact that He wasn't there because because He had already been resurrected. The Sabbath though, does not begin or end at dawn. So either the statement itself is  confusing, has been confused, or is being confused by those who do not wish Christ rose on Sunday. In any case, the testimony of other scripture makes it clear that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath. 

Matthew 28Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

28 After Shabbat, as the next day was dawning, Miryam of Magdala and the other Miryam went to see the grave. 2 Suddenly there was a violent earthquake, for an angel of Adonai came down from heaven, rolled away the stone and sat on it

Do you suppose the Jewish bible got it wrong?

QuoteMatthew 28Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

28 After Shabbat, as the next day was dawning, Miryam of Magdala and the other Miryam went to see the grave. 2 Suddenly there was a violent earthquake, for an angel of Adonai came down from heaven, rolled away the stone and sat on it

Do you suppose the Jewish bible got it wrong?

This darn thing is as 'Complete Jewish Bible' as had I written it. A lot of 20th century Sunday worshipping pro-Israel lobbyists made it up to fool foppols like you with, dear Amo. 

Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
The SIMPLER SOLUTION is to synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts, which has Jesus arrested Wednesday night (Tuesday night by our reckoning), Crucified Wednesday, in the tomb until Sunday morning. I prefer to think outside the silly Catholic "Holy Week" Box. SO the only "ancient problem" there is, was created at the council of Nicaea when the Catholics set out to "De-Judify" their rituals.
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
The ONLY solution is to strictly follow the Text in all four Gospels together, which 100% correlates with the events of the Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection through Jesus' Last Passover, which solution has Jesus arrested Wednesday night our reckoning in the night beginning the Fifth Day of the week in Bible reckoning. Thus was Jesus Crucified the following daylight of the Fifth Day (Thursday day) and Died "the ninth hour" (3 PM); was taken from the cross in the night of the Sixth Day (Thursday night) and was closed in, in the tomb, "mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing That Day the Preparation" (Friday mid-afternoon 3 PM); and remained closed in until "Late ON THE SABBATH ... there was a great earthquake MID-AFTERNOON" (3 PM).
NEXT day, Sunday, Jesus "As the Risen One, early on the First Day of the week (Sunday morning), APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first...". All of which perfectly fits in and correlates with the Gospels' Last Week of Jesus' Last Suffering of the Passover of Yahweh and its "three days thick darkness" on the 14th, 15th and 16th days of the First Month, when the New Era of Redemption and Salvation was inaugurated by the Resurrection of Our Passover and Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
SO the only "ancient problem" there has ever been, is that the Catholics wanted to shift Jesus' Resurrection off the Sabbath and forward onto Sunday. Which required that the Crucifixion had to be moved forward off the Fifth Day onto 'Good Friday'; which again required that the Burial had to be moved forward, off the Sixth Day of the week's "WHOLENESS" of "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" [having been "That Selfsame BONE DAY" of the fifteenth day of the First Month and "Great Day of sabbath" of the passover], onto a few hasty moments before the Sabbath on the SAME day as the supposed Crucifixion on Friday.

Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Wed Nov 15, 2017 - 01:26:15
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
The SIMPLER SOLUTION is to synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts, which has Jesus arrested Wednesday night (Tuesday night by our reckoning), Crucified Wednesday, in the tomb until Sunday morning. I prefer to think outside the silly Catholic "Holy Week" Box. SO the only "ancient problem" there is, was created at the council of Nicaea when the Catholics set out to "De-Judify" their rituals.
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
The ONLY solution is to strictly follow the Text in all four Gospels together, which 100% correlates with the events of the Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection through Jesus' Last Passover, which solution has Jesus arrested Wednesday night our reckoning in the night beginning the Fifth Day of the week in Bible reckoning. Thus was Jesus Crucified the following daylight of the Fifth Day (Thursday day) and Died "the ninth hour" (3 PM); was taken from the cross in the night of the Sixth Day (Thursday night) and was closed in, in the tomb, "mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing That Day the Preparation" (Friday mid-afternoon 3 PM); and remained closed in until "Late ON THE SABBATH ... there was a great earthquake MID-AFTERNOON" (3 PM).
NEXT day, Sunday, Jesus "As the Risen One, early on the First Day of the week (Sunday morning), APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first...". All of which perfectly fits in and correlates with the Gospels' Last Week of Jesus' Last Suffering of the Passover of Yahweh and its "three days thick darkness" on the 14th, 15th and 16th days of the First Month, when the New Era of Redemption and Salvation was inaugurated by the Resurrection of Our Passover and Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
SO the only "ancient problem" there has ever been, is that the Catholics wanted to shift Jesus' Resurrection off the Sabbath and forward onto Sunday. Which required that the Crucifixion had to be moved forward off the Fifth Day onto 'Good Friday'; which again required that the Burial had to be moved forward, off the Sixth Day of the week's "WHOLENESS" of "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" [having been "That Selfsame BONE DAY" of the fifteenth day of the First Month and "Great Day of sabbath" of the passover], onto a few hasty moments before the Sabbath on the SAME day as the supposed Crucifixion on Friday.

This certainly doesn't seem simpler than just believing the testimony of scripture. Why do you "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts". Does scripture tell us to do that? Are you claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday? Is this why you believe simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

Mt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. 62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; 41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem. 42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Lk 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Jn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Why should all of the above simple statements of scripture, and that already shared concerning the first day of the week, be ignored in order to "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts" as you suggest? What good reason is there to do such?

QuoteWhy do you "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts".

GE answers:

Valid objection, on condition that you read correctly and see it is not my statement, but the statement which I replied to.
Thanks.

QuoteAre you claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday? Is this why you believe simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

First, Am I claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday?

GE answers:

Yes, and not only claiming, I have been PROVING it with Scripture, irrefutably, for halve a century long already.

Next, After how long and you still don't see it's YOU who 'ignore...simple conclusive statements of scripture', NOT I! You have not given any Scripture that says or indicates in any manner that Jesus rose on Sunday, but I APPLY AND ABIDE BY ALL SCRIPTURE which says or and indicates in EVERY way and manner that Jesus rose on the Sabbath and had to rise on the Sabbath.

Quote...simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

Mt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. 62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; 41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem. 42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Lk 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Jn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Why should all of the above simple statements of scripture, and that already shared concerning the first day of the week, be ignored in order to "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts" as you suggest? What good reason is there to do such?

Mt 27:57 and Mk 15:40 do not go together. You put them together falsely.

Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50 Mk 15:42 go together. You separated them falsely, falsely shoving Mk 15:40 in between Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50. What a shame!

Mark 15:40 goes together with Matthew 27:55,56. You falsely place them together with Luke 23:54,55 and what should be Mark 15:47 and Matthew 27:61!

Your 'exegesis' of Scripture is witch-mongering of wrong Scriptures.

Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Tue Nov 21, 2017 - 10:46:46
GE answers:

Valid objection, on condition that you read correctly and see it is not my statement, but the statement which I replied to.
Thanks.

It wasn't and objection, just a question.