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Which is greater, the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass or is it the Catholic Faith itself?  The answer is specific, without any gray area.  I am very curious about the response.

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 21:49:06
Which is greater, the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass or is it the Catholic Faith itself?  The answer is specific, without any gray area.  I am very curious about the response.

The question is not specific so how can the answer be specific?

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 08:02:07
The question is not specific so how can the answer be specific?

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?

Sincerely, for the sake of clarification and for the record, Winsome, are you catholic?

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:08:26
Sincerely, for the sake of clarification and for the record, Winsome, are you catholic?

Yes. I'm a Catholic as well; a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis

Are you?

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:21:12
Yes. I'm a Catholic as well; a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis

Are you?

I, most certainly, am Catholic.  Traditional Catholic.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:28:09
I, most certainly, am Catholic.  Traditional Catholic.

You see - slippery and evasive.


I asked if you were a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

Please answer.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 08:02:07
The question is not specific so how can the answer be specific?

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?

Ok, now that we have that out of the way, you saying that you are Catholic.  You didn't finish your point, that the question is not specific, tell me why, explain it? 

Because in reality it is specific, because the answer is one or the other, that is specific.  Most people like to have it both ways in life i.e. a back door if they feel that there are getting into hot water.  They don't want to be pinned down.  For me, I like conclusions, the absolute truth.

Can you answer the question?

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:34:09
Ok, now that we have that out of the way, you saying that you are Catholic.  You didn't finish your point, that the question is not specific, tell me why, explain it? 

Because in reality it is specific, because the answer is one or the other, that is specific.  Most people like to have it both ways in life i.e. a back door if they feel that there are getting into hot water.  They don't want to be pinned down.  For me, I like conclusions, the absolute truth.

Can you answer the question?

You haven't answered my questions, just evaded them as you are doing now.

I asked, and I'll emphasis them where necessary:

Are you a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:32:10

Winsome quote. You see - slippery and evasive.  I asked if you were a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.  Please answer.

Winsome here is my answer and please notice that I support my answers with dogma.  Please read all the way through, don't embarrass yourself.

I did say that I am Catholic, which means that I am part of a society of believers, who holds to every truth of every true Catholic teachings, this is the catholic church.  The buildings are the place of worship. 

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they would be the true Church."

Fr. William Jurgens: "At one point in the Church's history, only a few years before Gregory's [Nazianz] present preaching (+380 A.D.), perhaps the number of Catholic bishops in possession of sees, as opposed to Arian bishops in possession of sees, was no greater than something between 1% and 3% of the total. Had doctrine been determined by popularity, today we should all be deniers of Christ and opponents of the Spirit."

Fr. William Jurgens: "In the time of the Emperor Valens (4th century), Basil was virtually the only orthodox Bishop in all the East who succeeded in retaining charge of his see... If it has no other importance for modern man, a knowledge of the history of Arianism should demonstrate at least that the Catholic Church takes no account of popularity and numbers in shaping and maintaining doctrine: else, we should long since have had to abandon Basil and Hilary and Athanasius and Liberius and Ossius and call ourselves after Arius."

The Catholic church cannot be led by a heretic i.e. francis, who says that the jews should not be considered as rejected by God and that the old covenant law has never been revoked.

"Paul VI" Nostra Aetate #4 on October 28, 1965: "Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures." http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

Antipope "John Paul II", New Catechism of the Catholic Church, Pg. 34 paragraph 121: "... for the Old Covenant has never been revoked."  http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/index.html#34

Here is what the true Catholic church and scripture has to said about the jews.  Nostra Aetate #4 is diametrically opposed to the Council of Florence.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, "Cantate Domino," 1441-1442, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments... after our Lord's coming... ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began... All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

Here is what scripture says about the jews.

Matthew 23:31-38 Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate.

Matthew 27:25 And the whole people answering, said: His blood be upon us and our children.

Matthew 10:33 But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the ancients and by the high priests, and the scribes, and be killed: and after three days rise again.

Matthew 21:42-43 Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes. Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.

John 3:18, 36 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ... He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son, hath life. He that hath not the Son, hath not life.

The "jews" are condemned and rejected because they reject Jesus!  The catholics are the new people of God, not the jews.

Apocalypse 3:12 He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.

Galatians 6:15-16 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And whosoever shall follow this rule, peace on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Hebrews 9:15 And therefore he is the mediator of the new testament: that by means of his death, for the redemption of those transgressions, which were under the former testament, they that are called may receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.

Romans 4:13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham, or to his seed, that he should be heir of the world; but through the justice of faith.

Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, he saith: Behold, the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Juda, a new testament:

The catholics are the Israel of God.  [Galatians 6:15-16]

Here is what the true Catholic church says about heretical anti-popes.

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208: "By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved."

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896: "The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, AND ALIEN TO THE CHURCH, WHOEVER WOULD RECEDE IN THE LEAST DEGREE FROM ANY POINT OF DOCTRINE PROPOSED BY HER AUTHORITATIVE MAGISTERIUM."

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos (# 7), Aug. 15, 1832: "... nothing of the things appointed ought to be diminished; nothing changed; nothing added; but they must be preserved both as regards expression and meaning."

St. Francis De Sales (17th century), Doctor of the Church, The Catholic Controversy, pp. 305-306: "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church..."

Canon 2314, 1917 Code of Canon Law: "All apostates from the Christian faith and each and every heretic or schismatic: 1) Incur ipso facto [by that very fact] excommunication..."

Pope Pius VI, Auctorem fidei, Aug. 28, 1794: "47. Likewise, the proposition which teaches that it is necessary, according to the natural and divine laws, for either excommunication or for suspension, that a personal examination should precede, and that, therefore, sentences called 'ipso facto' have no other force than that of a serious threat without any actual effect" – false, rash, pernicious, injurious to the power of the Church, erroneous.

St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, II, 30, speaking of a claimant to the Papal Office: "For, in the first place, it is proven with arguments from authority and from reason that the manifest heretic is 'ipso facto' deposed. The argument from authority is based on St. Paul (Titus 3:10), who orders that the heretic be avoided after two warnings, that is, after showing himself to be manifestly obstinate - which means before any excommunication or judicial sentence. And this is what St. Jerome writes, adding that the other sinners are excluded from the Church by sentence of excommunication, but the heretics exile themselves and separate themselves by their own act from the body of Christ."

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 12:38:57
You haven't answered my questions, just evaded them as you are doing now.

I asked, and I'll emphasis them where necessary:

Are you a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?

You call yourself Catholic and you don't know what the Catholic Faith is?

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 13:49:48
Winsome here is my answer and please notice that I support my answers with dogma.  Please read all the way through, don't embarrass yourself.

I read enough.
The answer is NO. You didn't need all the rest.

You are not  a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

You are not a member of the Catholic Church of 1.2 billion Christians but a follower of a small cult (and I use that in the sociological sense) led by Michael Dimond.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 13:51:59
You call yourself Catholic and you don't know what the Catholic Faith is?

Ducking anbds diving again Isaias

You asked a question. Therefore it is up to you to define the terms you used in the question.

Let's try again

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?


While you are thinking about that do you know the one about the chicken and the egg?

Q. Which is the greater, the chicken of the egg?
A. The egg because the chicken comes from the egg.
Wrong; because there has to be a chicken to lay the egg.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:03:00
I read enough.
The answer is NO. You didn't need all the rest.

You are not  a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

You are not a member of the Catholic Church of 1.2 billion Christians but a follower of a small cult (and I use that in the sociological sense) led by Michael Dimond.

You are correct, I am not a member of the counterfeit Catholic church which is led by "francis". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPs7jdfaib0&t=0s&index=7&list=PL3561DAA7AAB9259A

I am a member of the faithful remnant of the True Catholic church.  We don't have a man on the Throne anymore because God has punished the world again for the last time because of the sins against the Catholic Faith itself.  This was the third secret of Fatima.  The apostasy of Rome would start at the top.  3 kings ch. 9 has happened again, for the last time.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:07:54
Ducking anbds diving again Isaias

You asked a question. Therefore it is up to you to define the terms you used in the question.

Let's try again

What do you mean by the Catholic Faith?

What do you mean by greater?


While you are thinking about that do you know the one about the chicken and the egg?

Q. Which is the greater, the chicken of the egg?
A. The egg because the chicken comes from the egg.
Wrong; because there has to be a chicken to lay the egg.

You amaze me.  Your arrogance is amazing.

The Catholic Faith is the commandments and the precepts of God, the truths of God, to be held whole and inviolate.  We must obey the commandments of God.  And the Catholic Faith is greater than the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass. 

1 kings 15:22 And Samuel said: Doth the Lord desire holocausts and victims, and not rather that the voice of the Lord should be obeyed? For obedience is better than sacrifices: and to hearken rather than to offer the fat of rams.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass, is the remedy for the disobedience against God's commandments, against His truths.  If Adam never sinned, there never would be a need for a sacrifice.  God declares it so, Himself, in the verses above!!

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:10:12
You are correct, I am not a member of the counterfeit Catholic church which is led by "francis". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPs7jdfaib0&t=0s&index=7&list=PL3561DAA7AAB9259A

I am a member of the faithful remnant of the True Catholic church.  We don't have a man on the Throne anymore because God has punished the world again for the last time because of the sins against the Catholic Faith itself.  This was the third secret of Fatima.  The apostasy of Rome would start at the top.  3 kings ch. 9 has happened again, for the last time.

Ah! The remnant ploy. That's typical ploy played by small protestat groups that have only just come into existence.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:28:11
Ah! The remnant ploy. That's typical ploy played by small protestat groups that have only just come into existence.

Winsome, your church is protestant, look!

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/news/usccb-president-offers-condolences-death-rev-billy-graham/

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:23:53
You amaze me.  Your arrogance is amazing.

My arrogance?
What, in asking you to clarify your terms?

Are you so important that a lowly person like me must be arrogant to even ask you what you mean by something?

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:23:53

The Catholic Faith is the commandments and the precepts of God, the truths of God, to be held whole and inviolate.  We must obey the commandments of God.  And the Catholic Faith is greater than the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass. 

1 kings 15:22 And Samuel said: Doth the Lord desire holocausts and victims, and not rather that the voice of the Lord should be obeyed? For obedience is better than sacrifices: and to hearken rather than to offer the fat of rams.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass, is the remedy for the disobedience against God's commandments, against His truths.  If Adam never sinned, there never would be a need for a sacrifice.  God declares it so, Himself, in the verses above!!

Isaias has spoken.

It must be so.

It would be arrogant to disagree.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:30:48
My arrogance?
What, in asking you to clarify your terms?

Are you so important that a lowly person like me must be arrogant to even ask you what you mean by something?

You flatter yourself with false humility.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having an appearance indeed of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Now these avoid.

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:32:38
Isaias has spoken.

It must be so.

It would be arrogant to disagree.

NO, I didn't speak, those are God's words not mine, I just believe.  Why be mad at me for that?  Don't you think that it would be arrogant and prideful to disagree with God?

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:03:00
I read enough.
The answer is NO. You didn't need all the rest.

You are not  a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, led by Pope Francis.

You are not a member of the Catholic Church of 1.2 billion Christians but a follower of a small cult (and I use that in the sociological sense) led by Michael Dimond.

Winsome, why do you ignore the obvious heresies of the vatican II sect.  Why can't you see how the vatican II sect, opposes [2 thessalonians 2:4] the true doctrines of the Catholic church?

FALSE DOCTRINE OF MAN.
"Paul VI" Nostra Aetate #4 on October 28, 1965: "Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures." http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

Antipope "John Paul II", New Catechism of the Catholic Church, Pg. 34 paragraph 121: "... for the Old Covenant has never been revoked."  http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/index.html#34

TRUE DOCTRINE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, "Cantate Domino," 1441-1442, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments... after our Lord's coming... ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began... All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:54:43
NO, I didn't speak, those are God's words not mine, I just believe.  Why be mad at me for that?  Don't you think that it would be arrogant and prideful to disagree with God?

You said "The Catholic Faith is the commandments and the precepts of God, the truths of God, to be held whole and inviolate."

Please give chapter and verse where God said this.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:10:43
Winsome, why do you ignore the obvious heresies of the vatican II sect. 

Amazing! 1.2 billion Catholics and you call us a sect.

How many follow your leader Michael Dimond?

You need to get back to reality.

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 04:38:56
Amazing! 1.2 billion Catholics and you call us a sect.

How many follow your leader Michael Dimond?

You need to get back to reality.

You keep using 1.2 billion, as if the majority signifies that they are right.  If this were so, then why does God repeated say, that few are saved, throughout the bible.  This means that the majority lived life the wrong way, believing lies.  Even Saints have said the same thing about Catholics.  Let me provide example about the few that are saved.

Genesis 7:7  And Noe went in and his sons, his wife and the wives of his sons with him into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

1 Peter 3:20  Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Exodus 23:2  Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth.

Regarding the children of Israel that came out of Egypt, of the first generation, only two men, made it into the Promised Land.  Wow!

Numbers 26:65 For the Lord had foretold that they should die in the wilderness. And none remained of them, but Caleb the son of Jephone, and Josue the son of Nun.

Matthew 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.  How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!  Beware of false prophets [false bishops], who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Apocalypse 13:11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: "After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, 'The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.'  Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone.  Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, "Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom." Saint Anselm declares, "There are few who are saved." Saint Augustine states even more clearly, "Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned."  The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: "Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence."

Saint Anselm: "If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many.  And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few... Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness." (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMwMi97qNIc

Winsome you follow the church of man, the doctrines of men, instead of being part of the faithful remnant in these end times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPs7jdfaib0

You completely ignored the contradiction coming from the vatican II sect regarding the condemnation of the jews, Nostra Aetate #4 and Pope Eugene IV Cantate Domino.  Amazing!

Quote from: Isaias on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 12:20:46
You keep using 1.2 billion, as if the majority signifies that they are right.  If this were so, then why does God repeated say, that few are saved, throughout the bible.  This means that the majority lived life the wrong way, believing lies.  Even Saints have said the same thing about Catholics.  Let me provide example about the few that are saved.

Genesis 7:7  And Noe went in and his sons, his wife and the wives of his sons with him into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

1 Peter 3:20  Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Exodus 23:2  Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth.

Regarding the children of Israel that came out of Egypt, of the first generation, only two men, made it into the Promised Land.  Wow!

Numbers 26:65 For the Lord had foretold that they should die in the wilderness. And none remained of them, but Caleb the son of Jephone, and Josue the son of Nun.

Matthew 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.  How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!  Beware of false prophets [false bishops], who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Apocalypse 13:11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: "After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, 'The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.'  Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone.  Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, "Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom." Saint Anselm declares, "There are few who are saved." Saint Augustine states even more clearly, "Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned."  The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: "Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence."

Saint Anselm: "If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many.  And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few... Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness." (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.)

As usual no answer to my question.

Quote from: Isaias on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 12:20:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMwMi97qNIc

Winsome you follow the church of man, the doctrines of men, instead of being part of the faithful remnant in these end times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPs7jdfaib0

You completely ignored the contradiction coming from the vatican II sect regarding the condemnation of the jews, Nostra Aetate #4 and Pope Eugene IV Cantate Domino.  Amazing!

Cinema time again! 

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 12:26:52
As usual no answer to my question.

Cinema time again! 

Winsome, people can see through you, it is so patently obvious that you cannot refute one thing that I provided here.  You believe Nostra Aetate #4 and that is heresy, its a complete departure from the Catholic Faith and scripture.  Its plain.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:10:43
Winsome, why do you ignore the obvious heresies of the vatican II sect.  Why can't you see how the vatican II sect, opposes [2 thessalonians 2:4] the true doctrines of the Catholic church?

FALSE DOCTRINE OF MAN.
"Paul VI" Nostra Aetate #4 on October 28, 1965: "Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures."

Isaias,
Where has the Catholic Church ever issued an official statement saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed of God, whether from scripture or not?

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 15:01:29
Isaias,
Where has the Catholic Church ever issued an official statement saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed of God, whether from scripture or not?

You either don't read or you are now playing games.  Read my post reply #8 and #20.  It is extensive and lucid!

Quote from: Isaias on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 15:51:31
You either don't read or you are now playing games.  Read my post reply #8 and #20.  It is extensive and lucid!

Neither of those posts contain an official statement saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed by God.

Quote from: winsome on Sat Feb 24, 2018 - 05:43:01
Neither of those posts contain an official statement saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed by God.

You are in need of help!

Quote from: Isaias on Sat Feb 24, 2018 - 14:24:41
You are in need of help!

So you cannot find a single official statement, issued by the Catholic Church, saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed by God.

Now I'll give you a scripture statement to consider
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
(Ex 20:16)

.

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 12:26:52
As usual no answer to my question.

Isaias does not answer questions.

Isaias,

If you can spare some time from hunting for a non-existent official statement, issued by the Catholic Church, saying that the Jews are rejected or accursed by God, perhaps we can look at this one.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:10:43
FALSE DOCTRINE OF MAN.

Antipope "John Paul II", New Catechism of the Catholic Church, Pg. 34 paragraph 121: "... for the Old Covenant has never been revoked."  http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/index.html#34

When the Catechism  refers to the "Old Covenant" what is it referring to?
There are three possibilities:
a) the Abrahamic Covenant
b) the Mosaic Covenant
c) the Old Testament as a whole.

If we look at the context, and the whole quote, rather than the part you snipped out, we can see that it is referring to the Old Testament as a whole

The major section is IV. The Canon of Scripture
The sub section is headed The Old Testament
121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.
See the Old Testament (Old Covenant) retains a permanent value. it has not been revoked.

It continues
122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men.""Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional, The books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."
123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. the Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).

You see - it's all about the Old Testament - Old Covenant

Later in the sub-section The unity of the Old and New Testaments it says
128 The Church, as early as apostolic times, and then constantly in her Tradition, has illuminated the unity of the divine plan in the two Testaments through typology, which discerns in God's works of the Old Covenant prefigurations of what he accomplished in the fullness of time in the person of his incarnate Son.

Again Old Covenant = Old Testament

Another of your FALSE accusations exposed.

Nice try but just more lies and distortions.  And by the way, you are using the catechism of antipopes.

No, the true Catholic church is not talking about throwing away the old testament, its talking about the law of the old testament, pertaining to the animal sacrifice, the prohibition of eating certain meats, ceremonies etc, they were abolished, with the death of Jesus and the promulgation of the new testament Gospel.  Pope Eugene IV, is talking about the "LAW" of the old testament, not the old testament itself!!!!  Try to actually read it and stop embarrassing yourself again and again.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic Law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to divine worship at that time, after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally.  Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation.  All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors."

The old testament animal sacrifices was a foreshadow of Jesus, the True Lamb, being sacrificed for the world.  We can see this being acted out by Abraham and Isaac.  In fact, the carrying of the Holy Cross, the crowning with thorns, and the sacrifice of Jesus, is acted out with Abraham and Isaac.

Genesis 22:5-6, 9-13 [5] ... I and the boy will go with speed as far as yonder, and after we have worshipped, will return to you. [6] And he took the wood for the holocaust, and laid it upon Isaac his son: And as they two went on together, [9] ... and when he had bound Isaac his son, he laid him on the altar ... to sacrifice his son. [11] And behold an angel of the Lord from heaven called to him, saying: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. [12] And he said to him: Lay not thy hand upon the boy, neither do thou any thing to him: now I know that thou fearest God, and hast not spared thy only begotten son for my sake. [13] Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw behind his back a ram amongst the briers sticking fast by the horns, which he took and offered for a holocaust instead of his son.

Abraham, took the wood and laid it on the back of Isaac, which Isaac carried, signifying Jesus carrying wooden Holy Cross. Abraham placed Isaac on the altar, signifying God the Father offering His only begotten Son, Jesus. After Abraham was stayed by the Angel, he noticed the providential ram and its horns [head] stuck among the briers [thorns]. God provided the ram for the sacrifice, instead of Isaac, signifying what would happen to Jesus in the future.

And because we know that Jesus died, rose again and reigns, the old covenant law was abolished.

Apocalypse 5:6 And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, ...

And concerning the prohibition of certain meats that also has been abolished.

Acts 10:9-15 Peter went up to the higher parts of the house to pray, about the sixth hour. [10] And being hungry, he was desirous to taste somewhat. And as they were preparing, there came upon him an ecstasy of mind. [11] And he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. [14] But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. [15] And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.

And so it is, you have been completely refuted and your lies crushed.  Here is further proof of your leaders, the antipopes of the vatican II sect, that they preach and promote the lie that the jews can deny Jesus and continue to believe and hope in their Messiah to come.

Based on Scripture and Tradition, the Catholic Church teaches infallibly that it is necessary for salvation to believe in Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith.

John 8:23-24-"... for if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sin."

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439, ex cathedra: "Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith... it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ... the Son of God is God and man..."

In 2001, however, the Pontifical Biblical Commission released a book entitled The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible.  This book rejects the dogma that the Old Covenant has ceased.  It teaches that the Old Covenant is still valid, and that the Jews' wait for the Coming of the Messiah (which was part of the Old Covenant) is also still valid.  It teaches that Jesus doesn't have to be seen as the prophesied Messiah; it is possible to see Him, as the Jews do, as not the Messiah and not the Son of God.

In section II, A, 5, The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible states: "Jewish messianic expectation is not in vain...http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

In section II, A, 7, The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible states: "...to read the Bible as Judaism does necessarily involves an implicit acceptance of all its presuppositions, that is, the full acceptance of what Judaism is, in particular, the authority of its writings and rabbinic traditions, which exclude faith in Jesus as Messiah and Son of God... Christians can and ought to admit that the Jewish reading of the Bible is a possible one..." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

So, according to this Vatican book, Christians can and ought to admit that the Jewish position that Jesus is not the Son of God and the prophesied Messiah is a possible one!  The preface for this totally heretical book was written by none other than Joseph Ratzinger, the now Benedict XVI.  Benedict XVI, God and the World, San Francisco, CA: Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 209.

This is antichrist!

1 John 2:22 – "... he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ?  He is antichrist..."

Heresy is a rejection of a dogma of the Catholic Faith; apostasy is a rejection of the entire Christian Faith.  This book contains both heresy and apostasy, fully endorsed by Benedict XVI.  Benedict XVI teaches that Jesus doesn't have to be seen as the Messiah.

Benedict XVI teaches the same denial of Jesus Christ in a number of his books:

Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 209: "It is of course possible to read the Old Testament so that it is not directed toward Christ; it does not point quite unequivocally to Christ.  And if Jews cannot see the promises as being fulfilled in him, this is not just ill will on their part, but genuinely because of the obscurity of the texts...  There are perfectly good reasons, then, for denying that the Old Testament refers to Christ and for saying, No, that is not what he said.  And there are also good reasons for referring it to him – that is what the dispute between Jews and Christians is about."

Benedict XVI says that there are perfectly good reasons for not believing that the Old Testament refers to Christ as the prophesied Messiah.  He says that the Old Testament doesn't point unequivocally to Our Lord as the Messiah.  This is another total denial of the Christian Faith.

What makes this apostasy all the more outrageous is the fact that the New Testament is filled with passages which declare that Our Lord is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.  To quote just one passage of many, in John 5 Our Lord specifically tells the Jews that what is written in the Old Testament concerning Him will convict them.

John 5:39, 45-47 – "Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me... the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.  For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me."

But, according to Benedict XVI, all of these Biblical declarations that Our Lord is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies, including Our Lord's own words, may be false.  According to Benedict XVI, the Jewish reading that Our Lord is not the Messiah, not the Son of God, and not foretold in the Old Testament, is possible and valid.  This is totally heretical, apostate and antichrist.

Benedict XVI also denies Jesus Christ in his book Milestones:

Benedict XVI, Milestones, 1998, pages 53-54: "I have ever more come to the realization that Judaism... and the Christian faith described in the New Testament are two ways of appropriating Israel's Scriptures, two ways that, in the end, are both determined by the position one assumes with regard to the figure of Jesus of Nazareth.  The Scripture we today call Old Testament is in itself open to both ways..."    Benedict XVI, Milestones, Ignatius Press, 1998, pp. 53-54.

Benedict XVI again declares that Scripture is open to holding the Jewish view of Jesus, that Jesus is not the Son of God.  This is precisely why Benedict XVI repeatedly teaches the heresy that Jews don't need to believe in Christ for salvation.

Benedict XVI, Zenit News story, Sept. 5, 2000: "[W]e are in agreement that a Jew, and this is true for believers of other religions, does not need to know or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God in order to be saved..."

Winsome, you defend the devil.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/anti-pope-benedict-xvi/#_edn6

Quote from: Isaias on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 12:21:14
Nice try but just more lies and distortions.  And by the way, you are using the catechism of antipopes.

No, the true Catholic church is not talking about throwing away the old testament, its talking about the law of the old testament, pertaining to the animal sacrifice, the prohibition of eating certain meats, ceremonies etc, they were abolished, with the death of Jesus and the promulgation of the new testament Gospel.  Pope Eugene IV, is talking about the "LAW" of the old testament, not the old testament itself!!!!  Try to actually read it and stop embarrassing yourself again and again.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic Law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to divine worship at that time, after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally.  Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation.  All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors."

The old testament animal sacrifices was a foreshadow of Jesus, the True Lamb, being sacrificed for the world.  We can see this being acted out by Abraham and Isaac.  In fact, the carrying of the Holy Cross, the crowning with thorns, and the sacrifice of Jesus, is acted out with Abraham and Isaac.

Genesis 22:5-6, 9-13 [5] ... I and the boy will go with speed as far as yonder, and after we have worshipped, will return to you. [6] And he took the wood for the holocaust, and laid it upon Isaac his son: And as they two went on together, [9] ... and when he had bound Isaac his son, he laid him on the altar ... to sacrifice his son. [11] And behold an angel of the Lord from heaven called to him, saying: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. [12] And he said to him: Lay not thy hand upon the boy, neither do thou any thing to him: now I know that thou fearest God, and hast not spared thy only begotten son for my sake. [13] Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw behind his back a ram amongst the briers sticking fast by the horns, which he took and offered for a holocaust instead of his son.

Abraham, took the wood and laid it on the back of Isaac, which Isaac carried, signifying Jesus carrying wooden Holy Cross. Abraham placed Isaac on the altar, signifying God the Father offering His only begotten Son, Jesus. After Abraham was stayed by the Angel, he noticed the providential ram and its horns [head] stuck among the briers [thorns]. God provided the ram for the sacrifice, instead of Isaac, signifying what would happen to Jesus in the future.

And because we know that Jesus died, rose again and reigns, the old covenant law was abolished.

Apocalypse 5:6 And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, ...

And concerning the prohibition of certain meats that also has been abolished.

Acts 10:9-15 Peter went up to the higher parts of the house to pray, about the sixth hour. [10] And being hungry, he was desirous to taste somewhat. And as they were preparing, there came upon him an ecstasy of mind. [11] And he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. [14] But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. [15] And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.

And so it is, you have been completely refuted and your lies crushed.  Here is further proof of your leaders, the antipopes of the vatican II sect, that they preach and promote the lie that the jews can deny Jesus and continue to believe and hope in their Messiah to come.

Based on Scripture and Tradition, the Catholic Church teaches infallibly that it is necessary for salvation to believe in Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith.

John 8:23-24-"... for if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sin."

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439, ex cathedra: "Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith... it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ... the Son of God is God and man..."

In 2001, however, the Pontifical Biblical Commission released a book entitled The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible.  This book rejects the dogma that the Old Covenant has ceased.  It teaches that the Old Covenant is still valid, and that the Jews' wait for the Coming of the Messiah (which was part of the Old Covenant) is also still valid.  It teaches that Jesus doesn't have to be seen as the prophesied Messiah; it is possible to see Him, as the Jews do, as not the Messiah and not the Son of God.

In section II, A, 5, The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible states: "Jewish messianic expectation is not in vain...http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

In section II, A, 7, The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible states: "...to read the Bible as Judaism does necessarily involves an implicit acceptance of all its presuppositions, that is, the full acceptance of what Judaism is, in particular, the authority of its writings and rabbinic traditions, which exclude faith in Jesus as Messiah and Son of God... Christians can and ought to admit that the Jewish reading of the Bible is a possible one..." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

So, according to this Vatican book, Christians can and ought to admit that the Jewish position that Jesus is not the Son of God and the prophesied Messiah is a possible one!  The preface for this totally heretical book was written by none other than Joseph Ratzinger, the now Benedict XVI.  Benedict XVI, God and the World, San Francisco, CA: Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 209.

This is antichrist!

1 John 2:22 – "... he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ?  He is antichrist..."

Heresy is a rejection of a dogma of the Catholic Faith; apostasy is a rejection of the entire Christian Faith.  This book contains both heresy and apostasy, fully endorsed by Benedict XVI.  Benedict XVI teaches that Jesus doesn't have to be seen as the Messiah.

Benedict XVI teaches the same denial of Jesus Christ in a number of his books:

Benedict XVI, God and the World, 2000, p. 209: "It is of course possible to read the Old Testament so that it is not directed toward Christ; it does not point quite unequivocally to Christ.  And if Jews cannot see the promises as being fulfilled in him, this is not just ill will on their part, but genuinely because of the obscurity of the texts...  There are perfectly good reasons, then, for denying that the Old Testament refers to Christ and for saying, No, that is not what he said.  And there are also good reasons for referring it to him – that is what the dispute between Jews and Christians is about."

Benedict XVI says that there are perfectly good reasons for not believing that the Old Testament refers to Christ as the prophesied Messiah.  He says that the Old Testament doesn't point unequivocally to Our Lord as the Messiah.  This is another total denial of the Christian Faith.

What makes this apostasy all the more outrageous is the fact that the New Testament is filled with passages which declare that Our Lord is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.  To quote just one passage of many, in John 5 Our Lord specifically tells the Jews that what is written in the Old Testament concerning Him will convict them.

John 5:39, 45-47 – "Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me... the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.  For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me."

But, according to Benedict XVI, all of these Biblical declarations that Our Lord is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies, including Our Lord's own words, may be false.  According to Benedict XVI, the Jewish reading that Our Lord is not the Messiah, not the Son of God, and not foretold in the Old Testament, is possible and valid.  This is totally heretical, apostate and antichrist.

Benedict XVI also denies Jesus Christ in his book Milestones:

Benedict XVI, Milestones, 1998, pages 53-54: "I have ever more come to the realization that Judaism... and the Christian faith described in the New Testament are two ways of appropriating Israel's Scriptures, two ways that, in the end, are both determined by the position one assumes with regard to the figure of Jesus of Nazareth.  The Scripture we today call Old Testament is in itself open to both ways..."    Benedict XVI, Milestones, Ignatius Press, 1998, pp. 53-54.

Benedict XVI again declares that Scripture is open to holding the Jewish view of Jesus, that Jesus is not the Son of God.  This is precisely why Benedict XVI repeatedly teaches the heresy that Jews don't need to believe in Christ for salvation.

Benedict XVI, Zenit News story, Sept. 5, 2000: "[W]e are in agreement that a Jew, and this is true for believers of other religions, does not need to know or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God in order to be saved..."

Winsome, you defend the devil.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/anti-pope-benedict-xvi/#_edn6

Still weaving and dodging Isaias, and still avoiding the points I make.

Of course you can't address them because they show up your false accusations.

You are just in denial.

You clip a piece out of context and try to make it say something it doesn't.

You are a deceiver and bearing false witness.