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Jesus is the way and He came through Mary and in Mary is all grace of the way and the truth and the life!

John 14:6  Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."

Ecclesiasticus 24:24-25  I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.  In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue."
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Being devoted to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary every day [15 decades] is necessary for salvation.

Mary, is the living Ark of the New testament.

Apocalypse 11:19, 12:1-2 And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail. And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

Mary is the Vessel that contains Divine Grace, God Himself.

Prophecy of Jeremias 31:22 ... for the Lord hath created a new thing upon the earth: A WOMAN SHALL COMPASS A MAN.

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Our Lady told Sister Lucia of Fatima about the new efficacy and importance of the Rosary in the last times that we live in.

One of the three visionaries of Fatima, Sr. Lucia, told Fr. Fuentes in 1957:

"Father, the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world but she made me understand this for three reasons.

The first reason is because she told me that the Devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin.  And a decisive battle is the final battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer defeat.  Hence from now on we must choose sides.  Either we are for God or we are for the Devil.  There is no other possibility.

The second reason is because she said to my cousins as well as to myself that God is giving two last remedies to the world.  These are the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others.
   

"The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence, God always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other remedies.  Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever then, as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with a certain trepidation the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother.  It is with a certain trepidation because if you despise and repulse this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven because we will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit.  This sin consists of openly rejecting with full knowledge and consent, the salvation which He offers.  Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.  We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates, by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother."  Footnote: Sr. Lucy's interview with Fr. Fuentes, quoted in The Whole Truth About Fatima by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, Buffalo, NY: Immaculate Heart Publications, Vol. 3, p. 503 ff.

**It is imperative to understand that Grace, Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding, Instruction, and Counsel comes from the Holy Ghost but only through the hands of Mary.

John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."

St. Louis De Montfort: "When the Holy Ghost, her Spouse, has found Mary in a soul, He flies there. He enters there in His fullness; He communicates Himself to that soul abundantly, and to the full extent to which it makes room for His Spouse. Nay, one of the great reasons why the Holy Ghost does not now do startling wonders in our souls is because He does not find there a sufficiently great union with His faithful and inseparable Spouse." (True Devotion to Mary, # 36)

The book of Ecclesiasticus confirms that the grace of wisdom and all graces, passes through the hands of Mary, as a Mother and speaks about the chain, fetters, bands of the Rosary, especially in the latter end.  As Jesus came through Mary, the Holy Ghost operates the same way. 

Ecclesiasticus 4:11-13, 21  And thou shalt be as the obedient son of the [Holy Ghost] most High, and he will have mercy on thee more than a mother. [12] Wisdom inspireth life into her children, and protecteth them that seek after her, and will go before them in the way of justice.  [13] And he that loveth her, loveth life: and they that watch for her, shall embrace her sweetness. ... [21] And will disclose her secrets to him, and will heap upon him treasures of knowledge and understanding of justice.

"Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, Our life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope ..."

Ecclesiasticus 6:18-20, 23-34   [18] My son, from thy youth up receive instruction, and even to thy grey hairs thou shalt find wisdom. [19] Come to her as one that plougheth, and soweth, and wait for her good fruits: [20] For in working about her thou shalt labour a little, and shalt quickly eat of her fruits. ... [23] For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many, but with them to whom she is known, she continueth even to the sight of God. [24] Give ear, my son, and take wise counsel, and cast not away my advice. [25] Put thy feet into her fetters, and thy neck into her chains:[26] Bow down thy shoulder, and bear her, and be not grieved with her bands. [27] Come to her with all thy mind, and keep her ways with all thy power. [28] Search for her, and she shall be made known to thee, and when thou hast gotten her, let her not go: [29] For in the latter end thou shalt find rest in her, and she shall be turned to thy joy. [30] Then shall her fetters be a strong defence for thee, and a firm foundation, and her chain a robe of glory:[31] For in her is the beauty of life, and her bands are a healthful binding. [32] Thou shalt put her on as a robe of glory, and thou shalt set her upon thee as a crown of joy. [33] My son, if thou wilt attend to me, thou shalt learn: and if thou wilt apply thy mind, thou shalt be wise. [34] If thou wilt incline thy ear, thou shalt receive instruction: and if thou love to hear, thou shalt be wise.

Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucia told Father Fuentes in the famous 1957 interview:

"Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls."

Concerning the Rosary, in the latter times, the book of Ecclesiasticus confirms, the power of the Rosary as a weapon.

Ecclesiasticus 6:29-30 For in the latter end thou shalt find rest in her [Mary], and she shall be turned to thy joy. [30] Then shall her fetters be a strong defence for thee, and a firm foundation, and her chain a robe of glory:  [the Rosary]

Padre Pio regarding the Rosary.
"Some people are so foolish that they think they can go through life without the help of the Blessed Mother. Love the Madonna and pray the Rosary, for her Rosary is the weapon against the evils of the world today. All graces given by God pass through the Blessed Mother."

The fathers of the church and saints have concluded the same thing, that the Rosary is necessary for salvation.

St. Louis De Montfort: "... many others have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers (among others, St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure), that devotion to Mary is necessary to salvation, and that... it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem and love for the holy Virgin." (True Devotion to Mary # 40)

St. Louis De Montfort: "If devotion to the most holy Virgin Mary is necessary to all men simply for working out their salvation, it is still more so for those who are called to any special perfection..." (True Devotion to Mary #43)

St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): "Blessed Alan de la Roche who was so deeply devoted to the Blessed Virgin had many revelations from her and we know that he confirmed the truth of these revelations by a solemn oath.  Three of them stand out with special emphasis: the first, that if people fail to say the Hail Mary (the Angelic Salutation which has saved the world) out of carelessness, or because they are lukewarm, or because they hate it, this is a sign that they will probably and indeed shortly be condemned to eternal punishment." (Secret of the Rosary, p. 45)

Even St. Paul alludes to the Rosary. 

Ephesians 6:20  For which I am an ambassador in a chain, so that therein I may be bold to speak according as I ought.  [John 14:26]


www.olmc-mission.org/secret_of_the_rosary.pdf

I highly recommend that everyone read the Book "Secret of the Rosary".  There are so many secrets regarding Our Lady and the Rosary.

Ecclesiasticus 4:21 And will disclose her secrets to him, and will heap upon him treasures of knowledge and understanding of justice.

It truly is a weapon, especially in these end times.

What Padre Pio had to say regarding the Rosary.

"Pray the rosary frequently. It costs so little, and it's worth so much!"   

"We can't live without the Rosary."   

"Say the rosary, and pray it every day." 

"Love the Madonna and pray the Rosary, for her Rosary is the weapon against the evils of the world today. All graces given by God pass through the Blessed Mother." 

"The Rosary is the weapon given us by Mary to use against the tricks of the infernal enemy."   

"Mary has recommended the Rosary at Lourdes and Fatima because of it's exceptional value for us and our times." 

"The rosary is the prayer of the Madonna, the one that triumphs on everything and everybody."   

"Satan always tries to destroy the rosary, but he will never succeed."   [the divine mercy chaplet was the attempt!]

"Mary has taught us the rosary just as Jesus taught us the Our Father".   

But few care about Our Lady and the Rosary, to their own destruction.  This is why, few are saved.  All People truly need to seriously consider that Mary is necessary for salvation. 

Without grace, all men are dead!

Ecclesiasticus 20:21  A man without grace is as a vain fable, it shall be continually in the mouth of the unwise.

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently, lest any man be wanting to the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up do hinder, and by it many be defiled.

1 Corinthians 1:7  So that nothing is wanting to you in any grace, waiting for the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mary, is the Vessel of Grace, for which all graces pass through the hands of Mary.  Mary, is the Gate of Heaven, by which all men must pass through.  The Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary, tells us so!

Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

... Mother of divine grace, pray for us. ...  Virgin most merciful, pray for us. ...  Seat of wisdom, pray for us. ...  Spiritual vessel, pray for us.  Vessel of honor, pray for us.   Singular vessel of devotion, pray for us. ... Tower of David, pray for us.  Tower of ivory, pray for us. House of gold, pray for us.  Ark of the Covenant, pray for us.  Gate of Heaven, pray for us. ...

Solomon's Temple was not only a prefigurement of the Catholic church but also a prefigurement of Mary i.e. Tower of David, Tower of Ivory, House of Gold, the Gate of Heaven.  The old testament reveals this clearly.  There are so many secrets about Mary in the old testament. 

3 Kings [1 Kings] 10:18  King Solomon also made a great throne of ivory: and overlaid it with the finest gold.

3 Kings [1 Kings] 6:21-22 And the house before the oracle he overlaid with most pure gold, and fastened on the plates with nails of gold. [22] And there was nothing in the temple that was not covered with gold:

Has anyone every wondered why Mary, appeared to the children of Fatima on the 13th day of the month, for six months in 1917?  Mary is the Gate of Heaven, and there is a description of the gate of Solomon's Temple, that is rebuilt, after the destruction that was made by King Nebuchadnezzar, in the book of Jeremias.  Ezekiel describes his vision of the rebuilding of the gate and the Temple.  Ezekiel was one of the men taken captive by King Nebuchadnezzar.

Prophecy of Ezekiel 40:6,11 And he came to the gate that looked toward the east, ... and the length of the gate thirteen cubits:

The door [gate] of a Catholic church should always face the east! 

Prophecy of Ezekiel 43:1-2  And he brought me to the gate that looked towards the east. And behold the glory of the God of Israel came in by the way of the east:

It signifies a few things, [1] the rising of the Sun [Son] from the east upon the gate, [2] Mary and her perpetual virginity, that only God passes into the Gate [3] and the door of the Catholic church and the Catholic church itself.  It also signifies that only members receive the sacraments, the door is shut to those who are "Outside the Catholic Church", until they are washed, through the laver of regeneration.

Ezekiel 44:1-3 And he brought me back to the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary, which looked towards the east: and it was shut.  And the Lord said to me: This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it: because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it, and it shall be shut For the prince.

Luke 1:31-32,35  Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; ... And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Canticles 4:12 ..., my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up.

Prophecy of Jeremias 31:22 ... for the Lord hath created a new thing upon the earth: A WOMAN SHALL COMPASS A MAN.

And so it is, Mary is truly the gate of Heaven!  She compasses all of her children under her mantle.  All men must pass through this gate.  But most do not!

Ecclesiasticus 6:21-23  How very unpleasant is wisdom to the unlearned, and the unwise will not continue with her.  She shall be to them as a mighty stone of trial, and they will cast her from them before it be long. For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many,...

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

St. Louis De Montfort: "As there are secrets of nature by which natural operations are performed more easily, in a short time and at little cost; so are there secrets in the order of grace by which supernatural operations, such as ridding ourselves of self, filling ourselves with God, and becoming perfect, are performed more easily. The practice which I am about to disclose [of true devotion to Mary] is one of these secrets, unknown to the greater number of Christians, known even to few of the devout, and practiced and relished by a lesser number still."

St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): "Blessed Alan de la Roche who was so deeply devoted to the Blessed Virgin had many revelations from her and we know that he confirmed the truth of these revelations by a solemn oath. Three of them stand out with special emphasis: the first, that if people fail to say the Hail Mary (the Angelic Salutation which has saved the world) out of carelessness, or because they are lukewarm, or because they hate it, this is a sign that they will probably and indeed shortly be condemned to eternal punishment."

All men throughout the day should say "Hail Mary's" and the Rosary, sincerely, everyday.  Truly, you will be amazed how your eyes will be opened, regarding the grace of knowledge and understanding! 

When Jesus stated that His yoke is sweet and His burden is light, He was speaking of Mary. Those with the eyes of Faith will understand this.

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Ecclesiasticus 6:19-20 Come to her as one that plougheth, and soweth, and wait for her good fruits: For in working about her thou shalt labour a little, and shalt quickly eat of her fruits.

Ecclesiasticus 4:13 And he that loveth her, loveth life: and they that watch for her, shall embrace her sweetness.

Although it seemed that Mary was very quiet in scripture, but in reality, Mary is all over the bible from beginning unto the end.

John 14:6  Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."

Ecclesiasticus 24:24-25  I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.  In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue."

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 18:49:52Being devoted to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary every day [15 decades] is necessary for salvation.

Would like for me to reveal to you just how wicked Mary's heart was by nature and apart from the grace of God given to her on the behalf of Jesus Christ? Just as dark and just as void of God's righteousness as any sinner ever born through the posterity of the first Adam. Her heart by nature was no different than Charles Manson! Selah!

Quote from: RB on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 04:44:14
Would like for me to reveal to you just how wicked Mary's heart was by nature and apart from the grace of God given to her on the behalf of Jesus Christ? Just as dark and just as void of God's righteousness as any sinner ever born through the posterity of the first Adam. Her heart by nature was no different than Charles Manson! Selah!

I would not want to be you on the day of judgement!! 

"Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.  We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates, by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother."

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:03:06I would not want to be you on the day of judgement!! 

My trust in his God's Son and HIS righteousness~all others, including Mary were born SINNERS.

Quote from: MaryLuke 1:46,47~"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

She needed a Saviour JUST like any other born through the posterity of the first Adam.

Quote from: self appointed prophets"Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.  We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates, by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother."

One word for you: let them be Anathema Maranatha. Jesus Christ is more than the son of Mary, he was the Son of God who came to be Mary's Saviour. God the Father just happens to choose her womb for his Son to be born in the likeness of sinful flesh, NOT because of any virtue in her more than any other virgin, only because he willed to do so.

Devotion to Mary and the Recitation of the Rosary is necessary for Salvation is false gospel.

Please show me in the bible where God says we must do the rosary or pray to Mary in anyway. I cant see where it says that we are to pray to anyone except to God through Jesus Christ. I'm fact we are warned strongly NOT to try and contact anyone who has died. Its dangerous stuff and opens the door to evil spirits.

The thing is that most of us here have no interest in what some fallible RC's from the past say, we live by Gods word. If anything contradicts Gods word(which your claim does) then we must discard it.

Quote from: RB on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:18:31
My trust in his God's Son and HIS righteousness~all others, including Mary were born SINNERS. She needed a Saviour JUST like any other born through the posterity of the first Adam. One word for you: let them be Anathema Maranatha. Jesus Christ is more than the son of Mary, he was the Son of God who came to be Mary's Saviour. God the Father just happens to choose her womb for his Son to be born in the likeness of sinful flesh, NOT because of any virtue in her more than any other virgin, only because he willed to do so.

"My trust in his God's Son and HIS righteousness"

Oh yes, you can trust that Jesus will judge you properly, regarding your comments about His mother, Mary.

The worship of the dead and the queen of heaven were around long before the Church of Rome. All who submit to her pagan worship will be lost but perhaps the most innocently ignorant.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 19:05:15
The worship of the dead and the queen of heaven were around long before the Church of Rome. All who submit to her pagan worship will be lost but perhaps the most innocently ignorant.

You are confused.  Pagans are in hell.  Mary is in heaven.  You seem to think that those in heaven are dead, they are more alive than you and me. This world is transitory, we are in exile, waiting to begin life forever, hopefully.  But you think very carnally, unfortunately.  The saints in heaven are alive.  We know that Jesus is sitting on His throne in heaven with the 24 ancients sitting around Him.  The 24 ancients [12x2 ancients of the old testament and new testament] if they are dead, they cannot sit, fall down, throw their crowns, or talk. 

Apocalypse 4:2-4,10-11   And immediately I was in the spirit: and behold there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne one sitting. [3] And he that sat, was to the sight like the jasper and the sardine stone; and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats; and upon the seats, four and twenty ancients sitting, clothed in white garments, and on their heads were crowns of gold. ...  The four and twenty ancients fell down before him that sitteth on the throne, and adored him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory, and honour, and power: because thou hast created all things; and for thy will they were, and have been created.

Philippians 2:10  That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

Apocalypse 19:14 And the armies that are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Quote from: Isaias on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 19:34:41
You are confused.  Pagans are in hell.  Mary is in heaven.  You seem to think that those in heaven are dead, they are more alive than you and me. This world is transitory, we are in exile, waiting to begin life forever, hopefully.  But you think very carnally, unfortunately.  The saints in heaven are alive.  We know that Jesus is sitting on His throne in heaven with the 24 ancients sitting around Him.  The 24 ancients [12x2 ancients of the old testament and new testament] if they are dead, they cannot sit, fall down, throw their crowns, or talk. 

Apocalypse 4:2-4,10-11   And immediately I was in the spirit: and behold there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne one sitting. [3] And he that sat, was to the sight like the jasper and the sardine stone; and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats; and upon the seats, four and twenty ancients sitting, clothed in white garments, and on their heads were crowns of gold. ...  The four and twenty ancients fell down before him that sitteth on the throne, and adored him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory, and honour, and power: because thou hast created all things; and for thy will they were, and have been created.

Philippians 2:10  That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

Apocalypse 19:14 And the armies that are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ps 146:1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise the Lord, O my soul. 2 While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and those of the special resurrection at Christ crucifixion are in heaven alive with God as scripture testifies. They no doubt compose the 24 elders you refer to. The rest of us including Mary are sleeping the sleep death until the resurrection.

Really...lol?  And the fact that the soul is separated from the body when one dies, where is the soul??

Quote from: Isaias on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 16:17:13Oh yes, you can trust that Jesus will judge you properly, regarding your comments about His mother, Mary.

No~ it's your perverted understanding of God's word and your wicked exaltation of a sinner like Mary was by nature that causes you to believe that she was as pure as Christ before the grace of regeneration by God's power which was freely given to her on the behalf of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Yes, ONCE born of the Spirit, Mary and all other children of God are legally, and actually INWARDLY, are pure in their new man, which was created AFTER the image the second Adam, Jesus Christ, the Son of God...JUST AS PURE as Jesus Christ~but NOT until the new birth....by nature we ALL are just as wicked as any sinner that has ever been born through the posterity of Adam's race....everyone is, there is none that are exempted. 

Jesus Christ ONLY was begotten by the power of the Highest, by-passing the seed of the first Adam. He is the ONLY begotten Son that God begot in the SENSE in which he was begotten.   

Quote from: RB on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 04:09:23Jesus Christ ONLY was begotten by the power of the Highest, by-passing the seed of the first Adam.

Mary was obviously a descendant of Adam.  So how did Jesus by-pass that seed?  If any are born with the imputed sin of Adam as a result of physical descendancy, then most definitely Eve was imputed with that sin as well. But then, none of Adam's descendants have been imputed with Adam's sin  -- not Abel, not Cain, not Set, not......, not Mary, not Jesus.  Not you, not your sons and daughters, not their sons or daughters.  Not me, not my sons, not theirs.

The whole laughable aspect of the Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception is that it is a complex separate doctrine established to deal with a supposed problem that simply does not nor did not ever exist.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 04:58:52Mary was obviously a descendant of Adam.

Agreed

QuoteSo how did Jesus by-pass that seed?

Jesus was NOT begotten through the SEED of Adam, (by Joesph) but by the POWER of the HIGHEST!

Quote from: The prophet IsaiahIsaiah 7:14~"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

Again:

Quote from: The prophet IsaiahIsaiah 9:6,7~"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

Quote from: RB on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 05:38:30
Agreed; Jesus was NOT begotten through the SEED of Adam, (by Joesph) but by the POWER of the HIGHEST!

So what are you saying?  Jesus wasn't really the son of the virgin Mary who was of the SEED of Adam? 

Quote from: Isaias on Sat Feb 24, 2018 - 14:27:55
Really...lol?  And the fact that the soul is separated from the body when one dies, where is the soul??

The body and the spirit or breath of God compose a living soul. When they are separated their is no living soul, the soul is gone until God reunites the body and spirit or breath of God again at the resurrection. Nothing about man is immortal apart from God. Immortality is a gift to the saved in Christ Jesus. Souls are not immortal, they cease to exist at death, when body and spirit are separated. Thus the scriptures never use the term immortal soul, but to the contrary very often speak of souls dying. You have simply been duped into believing the first lie of Satan to humanity along with the majority in this world, through the false doctrine of the immortality of the soul. God said we would die, Satan said we would not, the latter perpetuates his original lie to humanity through the false doctrine of the immortality of the soul.


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul.  This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

Eccl 12:5....... because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?

Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.

Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:) 5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.

Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is it's end. When life ends, it ends.

Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.

Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.

Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.

Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.

Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?

Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.

Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.

Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Again, the soul is identified with the person. If the person lives, the soul lives. If the person dies, the soul dies. A soul is a living person with a body combined with the breath, or spirit from God.

Matt 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.

Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.

Acts 2: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.

Acts 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.

Heb 10:38-39 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.

James 5:19-20 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.

Rev 16: 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.

You are much confused about souls and spirits.

Amos quote.

"When God *united* His ... spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit."

Isaias response.

I didn't bother including all of your other confusion and misunderstandings in your response to me but just this and it is so outrageous and you don't even realize it.  You just said that God unites His spirit with every man, that He dissolves [uniting] Himself, into every man and this is antichrist.  And this means that every man is god, there is no way around with what you just said.  That is the Nestorian Heresy.  Which is antichrist.

Pope St. Pius X, E Supremi Apostolatus, Oct. 4, 1903: "While, on the other hand, and this according to the same apostle is the distinguishing mark of Antichrist, man has with infinite temerity put himself in the place of God."

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.

I cannot believe that you said that.  You actually promote what antipope John Paul II declares.

Antipope John Paul II, Redemptor Hominis #13, March 4, 1979: "... by his Incarnation, he, the Son of God, in a certain way united himself with EACH MAN."

Antipope John Paul II, Homily, July 2, 1986: "... the Son of God, incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary, 'has in a certain way united himself with each man.'"

Antipope John Paul II, Homily, April 8, 1987: "... by his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in a certain way with EACH PERSON."

Antipope John Paul II, Letter to Families (# 2): "... the Son of God, who in the Incarnation 'united himself in some sense with every man.'"

He said Christmas is the feast of man, instead of Jesus Christ.

Antipope John Paul II, Urbi et Orbi, Dec. 25, 1978: "I am addressing this message to every human being, to man in his humanity.  Christmas is the feast of man."

This is a perfect example that the vatican II sect is protestant, all, one and the same.  But also, it is an amalgamation of all false religions, they promote all false religions i.e. "Assisi Prayer Day For Peace 1986".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVf31G3q-RM&t=0s&list=PL3561DAA7AAB9259A&index=9

Quote from: Isaias on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 12:54:21

He said Christmas is the feast of man, instead of Jesus Christ.

Antipope John Paul II, Urbi et Orbi, Dec. 25, 1978: "I am addressing this message to every human being, to man in his humanity.  Christmas is the feast of man."

That's really stupid, and typical of the way you take something out of context in order to deceive people.

Firstly the setting is Christmas Day. A feast of Jesus

Secondly let's look at the more of what Pope John Paul II said
1. I am addressing this message to every human being, to man in his humanity. Christmas is the feast of man. A human being is born. He is one of the millions and millions of people who have been born, are being born and will be born on earth. A human being, one item in the vast range of statistics. It as not without reason that Jesus came into the world when a census 'was being held, when a Roman emperor wanted to know the number of subjects in his territory. A human being is an object to be counted, something considered under the aspect of quantity, one of many millions. Yet at the same time he is a single being, unique and unrepeatable. If we celebrate with such solemnity the birth of Jesus, it is to bear witness that every human being somebody unique and unrepeatable. If our human statistics, human categories, human political, economic and social systems, and mere human possibilities fail to ensure that man can be born, live and act as one who is unique and unrepeatable, then all this is ensured by God. For God and before God, the human being is always unique and unrepeatable, somebody thought of and chosen from eternity, some called and identified by his own name. It is as it was with the first man, Adam. It is as it was with the new Adam, born of the Virgin Mary  in the cave at Bethlehem: "You shall call his name Jesus" (Lk 1:31).......

4. "Glory to God in the highest heaven" (Lk 2:14). God has come near. He is in our midst. He is the Man. He is born (has been born) at Bethlehem. He is lying in the manger, because there was no room for him at the inn (cf. Lk 2;7). His name: Jesus! His Mission: Christ! He is the Messenger of great Counsel, "Wonder-Counsellor" (Is 9:5); and we so often are irresolute, and our counsels do not bear the desired fruits. He is "Eternal-Father" (Is 9:5). "Pater futuri saeculi, Princips pacis"; and in spite of the fact that two thousand years separate us from his birth, he is always ahead of us, always goes before us. We must "run after him", and try to "reach him".

Pope John Paul II is quite clear that this is a feast of Jesus

Quote from: Isaias on Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 12:54:21
I cannot believe that you said that.  You actually promote what antipope John Paul II declares.

Antipope John Paul II, Redemptor Hominis #13, March 4, 1979: "... by his Incarnation, he, the Son of God, in a certain way united himself with EACH MAN."

Antipope John Paul II, Homily, July 2, 1986: "... the Son of God, incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary, 'has in a certain way united himself with each man.'"

Antipope John Paul II, Homily, April 8, 1987: "... by his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in a certain way with EACH PERSON."

Antipope John Paul II, Letter to Families (# 2): "... the Son of God, who in the Incarnation 'united himself in some sense with every man.'"

Isaias, I'm still waiting for you to explain what you see wrong with this - see thread
The Antichrist Has Come And Gone And Just About No One Noticed

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 18:49:52Being devoted to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary every day [15 decades] is necessary for salvation.

Catholicism does not teach this.  In fact, although it would be extremely odd, a Catholic need never say a single prayer to Mary -- it is not a requirement.

I am a lifetime Catholic and a devotion to the Blessed Mother and praying the rosary IS NOT necessary for salvation - this is balderdash. She is to be respected as the Mother of our Savior Jesus Christ, but we are not saved by her. We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"I (Mary) am compassionate toward all and eager to help sinners. Those who have it in their power here on earth to invoke me and yet refuse to do so are foolish. In failing to call upon me (Mary), they incur damnation and will be miserable for all eternity."

From: The Glories of Mary, St. Alphonse Liguori
With Nihil Obstat & Imprimatur

Quote from: AVZ on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 01:38:59
"I (Mary) am compassionate toward all and eager to help sinners. Those who have it in their power here on earth to invoke me and yet refuse to do so are foolish. In failing to call upon me (Mary), they incur damnation and will be miserable for all eternity."

From: The Glories of Mary, St. Alphonse Liguori
With Nihil Obstat & Imprimatur

A private revelation to St. Liguori. And?

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 04:41:28
A private revelation to St. Liguori. And?

Actually, there is no objection by the RCC and it has been given the stamp of approval by the church as well.
Furthermore it has been confirmed by the same RCC that Alphonse Liquori is in heaven.

Or are you saying that Liquori was wrong, and the Nihil Obstat should not be given and the stamp of approval was incorrect?

Quote from: Ladonia on Mon Apr 09, 2018 - 22:15:46
I am a lifetime Catholic and a devotion to the Blessed Mother and praying the rosary IS NOT necessary for salvation - this is balderdash. She is to be respected as the Mother of our Savior Jesus Christ, but we are not saved by her. We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

WHY do you do it when Jesus Himself tells us to pray to the Father through Himself?

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 05:14:57
WHY do you do it when Jesus Himself tells us to pray to the Father through Himself?

Why would you ever ask anyone to pray for you when Jesus tells us to pray to the Father through Himself?  Look, we have been through this argument before. My belief (and the Scriptures say) that all believers are alive in Christ. Nothing can seperate us from Him or each other, nothing! The Blessed Mother is not dead, she is as alive in Christ as you or me, so logically I could ask her (or anyone who is presently with the Lord) to pray for me as I could ask you to pray for me, no?  It's an orthodox Christian belief this "Communion of Saints", and I follow the orthodox way of Christianity and you don't,  so what else is there to say?

Quote from: AVZ on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 05:09:02
Actually, there is no objection by the RCC and it has been given the stamp of approval by the church as well.
Furthermore it has been confirmed by the same RCC that Alphonse Liquori is in heaven.

Or are you saying that Liquori was wrong, and the Nihil Obstat should not be given and the stamp of approval was incorrect?

You are correct, there is no objection to this belief by the Church - the faithful are free to believe this, but there is no requirement.

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 06:22:26It's an orthodox Christian belief this "Communion of Saints", and I follow the orthodox way of Christianity and you don't,  so what else is there to say?

That's a misnomer. An EOC do not base their teaching on the word of God~but have added many traditons and call those added traditons truths~which makes their their so-called orthodox Christian belief, nothing more than commanments and traditons of men, and not the teachings of the God of heaven.

Quote from:  Ladonia Today at 06:22:26I follow the orthodox way of Christianity and you don't,  so what else is there to say?

That your religion is based upon the traditions of men UNINSPIRED of God, therefore should be rejected by all of those who live by every word of God and reject man's vain traditions.

Quote from: Ladonia Today at 06:22:26The Blessed Mother is not dead, she is as alive in Christ as you or me, so logically I could ask her (or anyone who is presently with the Lord) to pray for me as I could ask you to pray for me, no?  It's an orthodox Christian belief this "Communion of Saints",

We do not have ONE scripture that shows us where saints pray to DEAD SAINTS. Your vain logic is based upon tradition NOT upon the teachings of the word of God. There is ONE mediator between man and God, the MAN Christ Jesus~sorry it is not Mary. Besides Abraham is greater than Mary~he's the father of the faithful~Mary is nothing more than a sister. Oh well, you have been brainwashed. What more needs to be said, it's useless.

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 06:24:55
You are correct, there is no objection to this belief by the Church - the faithful are free to believe this, but there is no requirement.

Just for clearness of the argument, let me repeat:

"I (Mary) am compassionate toward all and eager to help sinners. Those who have it in their power here on earth to invoke me and yet refuse to do so are foolish. In failing to call upon me (Mary), they incur damnation and will be miserable for all eternity."

The position of the RCC is that it is correct, unobjectable and approved for a Catholic to say this is truth
The position of the RCC is that it is also correct, unobjectable and approved for a catholic to say this is false

Now here is the thing:
The statement is a positive declaration that those who do not invoke Mary go to hell.
That is either true or false.

Now you agree with me that the RCC cannot and should not approve something that is false.
If something is false, then the church should object and disapprove.

Hence, by approving and not objecting, the church agrees the statement is true.

Quote from: RB on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 06:53:53
That's a misnomer. An EOC do not base their teaching on the word of God~but have added many traditons and call those added traditons truths~which makes their their so-called orthodox Christian belief, nothing more than commanments and traditons of men, and not the teachings of the God of heaven. That your religion is based upon the traditions of men UNINSPIRED of God, therefore should be rejected by all of those who live by every word of God and reject man's vain traditions.We do not have ONE scripture that shows us where saints pray to DEAD SAINTS. Your vain logic is based upon tradition NOT upon the teachings of the word of God. There is ONE mediator between man and God, the MAN Christ Jesus~sorry it is not Mary. Besides Abraham is greater than Mary~he's the father of the faithful~Mary is nothing more than a sister. Oh well, you have been brainwashed. What more needs to be said, it's useless.

Let's not talk about the "traditions of men" shall we, especially by someone whose spiritual father (Martin Luther) ripped the Scriptures apart to validate his new line of thinking. Yes, I do believe in tradition also in addidtion to the Scriptures, the correct interpretation of them. In the end all you have is a particular interpretation of them. When did your sect come about? Was it in the 1600's, 1700's, or 1800"s? So many have popped up through the years it's impossible to keep trak of them all. Come on, which one have you aligned your self to and which man started it? (Or was it a woman?)

Quote from: AVZ on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 06:58:41
Just for clearness of the argument, let me repeat:

"I (Mary) am compassionate toward all and eager to help sinners. Those who have it in their power here on earth to invoke me and yet refuse to do so are foolish. In failing to call upon me (Mary), they incur damnation and will be miserable for all eternity."

The position of the RCC is that it is correct, unobjectable and approved for a Catholic to say this is truth
The position of the RCC is that it is also correct, unobjectable and approved for a catholic to say this is false

Now here is the thing:
The statement is a positive declaration that those who do not invoke Mary go to hell.
That is either true or false.

Now you agree with me that the RCC cannot and should not approve something that is false.
If something is false, then the church should object and disapprove.

Hence, by approving and not objecting, the church agrees the statement is true.

Your logic is off kilter. Many saints have had revelations from Our Lord or the Blessed Mother as you indicate, but these are PRIVATE REVELATIONS that ARE NOT incumbent upon the faithful to embrace, and I don't care which Bishop gave his Nihil Obstat or Imprimatur. The question is not whether the Church approves or objects, but what is required for salvation and these things my friend ARE NOT required for salvation according to the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. Concerning Mary, one has to simply believe that she was a virgin who became the Mother of God Incarnate - that's it!

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 10:35:59
Concerning Mary, one has to simply believe that she was a virgin who became the Mother of God Incarnate - that's it!

Unfortunately that's not it. The Catholic is required to believe the following of Mary (much of which is not found in scripture):

- Mary's mothership of God
- Mary's bodily assumption
- Mary's perpetual viginity
- Mary's immaculate conception

So a catholic is required to believe that Mary was a virgin and remained a virgin who became the mother of God Incarnate, and was sinless, and assumed bodily into heaven.

That Mary was a virgin is confirmed by scripture.
That Mary remained a virgin is not confirmed by scripture
That Mary was the mother of Jesus is confirmed by scripture, that she was the mother of God is not (see Council of Ephesus)
That Mary was sinless is not confirmed by scripture
That Mary was assumed bodily into heaven is not confirmed by scripture

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 10:35:59
Your logic is off kilter. Many saints have had revelations from Our Lord or the Blessed Mother as you indicate, but these are PRIVATE REVELATIONS that ARE NOT incumbent upon the faithful to embrace, and I don't care which Bishop gave his Nihil Obstat or Imprimatur. The question is not whether the Church approves or objects, but what is required for salvation and these things my friend ARE NOT required for salvation according to the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. Concerning Mary, one has to simply believe that she was a virgin who became the Mother of God Incarnate - that's it!

Well, if Mary states that those who do not invoke her go to hell, and the RCC has no objection that this statement is false...that very much seems like a matter of salvation to me.

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 10:29:56
Let's not talk about the "traditions of men" shall we, especially by someone whose spiritual father (Martin Luther) ripped the Scriptures apart to validate his new line of thinking. Yes, I do believe in tradition also in addidtion to the Scriptures, the correct interpretation of them. In the end all you have is a particular interpretation of them. When did your sect come about? Was it in the 1600's, 1700's, or 1800"s? So many have popped up through the years it's impossible to keep trak of them all. Come on, which one have you aligned your self to and which man started it? (Or was it a woman?)

My spiritual father is ABRAHAM, not Martin Luther, even though every child of God is in debt to him for his love of the holy scriptures and his refusal of RCC/EOC traditions and additions, etc. and his bold spirit in standing against the whore of Revelation 17.

Since you mention Martin Luther let him speak for himself.

Quote"Since then your majesty and your lordships desire a simple reply, I will answer without horns or without teeth. Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other- my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe."

"Let the man who would hear God speak, read Holy Scriptures."

"The Holy Spirit himself and God, the Creator of all things, is the Author of this book."

"But be assured that no one will make a doctor of the Holy Scripture save only the Holy Ghost from heaven."

"There is not a word in the Bible which is extra cruem, which can be understood without reference to the cross."


"I am afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labour in explaining the Holy Scriptures, and engraving them on the hearts of youth. I would advise no one to send his child where the Holy Scriptures are not supreme. Every institution in which men and women are not unceasingly occupied with the Word of God must be corrupt."

"If I had kept at it, I would have become exceedingly good at locating things in the Bible. At that time no other study pleased me so much as sacred literature. With great loathing I read physics [Aristotle's Physics], and my heart was aglow when the time came to return to the Bible . . . I read the Bible diligently. Sometimes one statement occupied all my thoughts for a whole day." (LW 54:14).

"For some years now, I have read through the Bible twice every year. If you picture the Bible to be a mighty tree and every word a little branch, I have shaken every one of these branches because I wanted to know what it was and what it meant." (LW 54:165).

"The Bible is the proper book for men. There the truth is distinguished from error far more clearly than anywhere else, and one finds something new in it every day. For twenty-eight years, since I became a doctor, I have now constantly read and preached the Bible; and yet I have not exhausted it but find something new in it every day." (WA TR 5, no. 5193).

"There I began to understand [in Romans 1:17] that the righteousness of God is that by which the righteous lives by a gift of God, namely by faith . . . Here I felt that I was altogether born again and had entered the gates of paradise itself through open gates. There a totally other face of the entire Scripture showed itself to me. Thereupon I ran through the Scriptures from memory. I also found in other terms an analogy, as, the work of God, that is, what God does in us, the power of God, with which he makes us strong, the wisdom of God, with which he makes us wise, the strength of God, the salvation of God, the glory of God." (LW 34:337).

"The neglect of Scripture, even by spiritual leaders, is one of the greatest evils in the world. Everything else, arts or literature, is pursued and practiced day and night, and there is no end of labor and effort; but Holy Scripture is neglected as though there were no need of it. Those who condescend to read it want to absorb everything at once. There has never been an art or a book on earth that everyone has so quickly mastered as the Holy Scriptures. But its words are not, as some think, mere literature (Lesewort); they are words of life (Lebewort), intended not for speculation and fancy but for life and action. By why complain? No one pays any attention to our lament. May Christ our Lord help us by His Spirit to love and honor His holy Word with all our heart. Amen." (LW 14:46)

"This German Bible (this is not praise for myself but the work pages itself) is so good and precious that it's better than all other versions, Greek and Latin, and one can find more in it than in all commentaries, for we are removing impediments and difficulties so that other people may read it without hindrance. I'm only concerned that there won't be much reading in the Bible, for many people are tired of it and nobody clamors for it any more." (LW 54:408).

"You should diligently learn the Word of God and by no means imagine that you know it. Let him who is able to read take a psalm in the morning, or some other chapter of Scripture, and study it for a while. This is what I do. When I get up in the morning, I pray and recite the Ten Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord's Prayer with the children, adding any one of the psalms. I do this only to keep myself well acquainted with these matters, and I do not want to let the mildew of the notion grow that I know them well enough. The devil is a greater rascal than you think he is. You do as yet not know what sort of fellow he is and what a desperate rogue you are. His definite design is to get you tired of the Word and in this way to draw you away from it. This is his aim." (WA 32, 64f.).

"I implore them not to imagine that they have learned these parts of the Catechism [10 Commandments, Apostles' Creed, Lord's Prayer] perfectly . . . Even if their knowledge of the Catechism were perfect (though that is impossible in this life), yet it is highly profitable and fruitful daily to read it and make it the subject of meditation and conversation. In such reading, conversation, and meditation the Holy Spirit is present and bestows ever new and greater light and fervor . . . . Nothing is more effectual against the devil, the world, the flesh, and all evil thoughts than to occupy oneself with the Word of God, talk about it and meditate on it . . . For this reason alone you should eagerly read, recite, ponder and practice the Catechism, even if the only blessing and benefit you obtain from it is to rout the devil and evil thoughts. For he cannot bear to hear God' s Word. God's Word is not like some empty tale, such as the one about Dietrich of Bern, but as St. Paul says in Rom. 1:16, it is "the power of God," indeed, the power of God which burns the devil and gives us immeasurable strength, comfort, and help." (Book of Concord; Tappert edition; Large Catechism 9-11).Here [John 5:39,40,43]

"Christ would indicate the principal reason why the Scripture was given by God. Men are to study and search in it and to learn that He, He, Mary's Son, is the one who is able to give eternal life to all who come to Him and believe in Him. Therefore, he who would correctly and profitably read Scripture should see to it that he finds Christ in it; then he finds life eternal without fail. On the other hand, if I do not so study and understand Moses and the prophets as to find that Christ came from heaven for the sake of my salvation, became man, suffered, died, was buried, rose, and ascended into heaven so that through Him I enjoy reconciliation with God, forgiveness of all my sins, grace, righteousness, and life eternal, then my reading in Scripture is of no help whatsoever to my salvation. I may, of course, become a learned man by reading and studying Scripture and preach what I have acquired; yet all this would do me no good whatever." (WA 51,4)

".... Since the Fall every man has been a philosopher, for he has taken his experience of the world and his knowledge of reality — which he has succeeded in describing scientifically — as a standard by which to measure God. But the intellect does not suffice to grasp the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; He must be apprehended through the Scriptures. The "God" created by man is a false god of his own making. (Heiko Oberman, "Luther: Man Between God and the Devil," 170)

"In this psalm David is always says that he will speak, think, talk, hear, read, day and night constantly- but about nothing else than God's Word and Commandments. For God wants to give you His Spirit only through the external Word."

"The apostles themselves considered it necessary to put the New Testament into Greek to bind it fast to that language, doubtless in order to preserve it for us safe and sound in the sacred ark. For they foresaw that if it were contained only in one's heads, wild and fearful disorder and confusion, and many various interpretations, fancies and doctrines would arise in the Church, which could be prevented and from which the plain man could be protected only by committing the New Testament to writing the language." [Hugh T. Keer; p. 17]"

"If I could today become king or emperor, I would not give up my office as preacher." [Meuser; Luther the Preacher, p. 139]"

"Dear Lord God, I want to preach so that you are glorified. I want to speak of you, praise you, praise your name. Although I probably cannot make it turn out well, won't you make it turn out well?" [Meuser; Luther The Preacher, p. 51]

"Nevertheless, I beat on importunately upon Paul at that place, most ardently desiring to know what St. Paul wanted...At last, by the mercy of God, meditating day and night, I gave heed to the context of the words, namely, "In it God is revealed as it is written, He who through faith is righteousness shall live." There I began to understand that the righteousness of God is that by which the righteous lives by a gift of God, namely by faith. And this meaning: the righteousness of God is revealed by the gospel, namely, the passive righteousness with which the merciful God justifies us by faith, as it is written, "he who through faith is righteous shall live." Here I felt I was altogether born again and had entered itself through open gates. Here a totally other face of entire Scriptures showed itself to me. Thereupon I ran through the Scriptures from memory..."  And I extolled my sweetest word with love as great as the hatred with which I had before hated the word 'righteousness of God.' Thus that place in Paul was for me truth the gate to paradise." [Dillinger, 11-12]

"For a number of years I have now read through the Bible twice. If the Bible were a large, mighty tree and all its words were little branches I have tapped at all the branches, eager to know what was there and what it had to offer." [Luther Says: Vol 1, 83]

"He who is well acquainted with the text of scripture, is a distinguished theologian. For a Bible passage or text is of more value than the comments of four authors." [Luther Says, vol 3; 1355]
"We are like men who study that sign-posts and never travel the road. The dear fathers wished by their writing, to lead us to the Scriptures, but we use them as to be led away from the Scriptures, though the Scriptures alone are our vineyard in which we ought all to work and toil." "The Bible is being buried by the wealth of commentaries, and the text is being neglected, although in every branch of learning they are the best who are well acquainted with the text."Treat a passage like Moses did the rock in the desert, which he smote with his rod until water gushed out for his thirsty people. "The Bible is a remarkable fountain: more one draws and drinks of it, the more it stimulates thirst." [Plass; Vol 1; 67]

"Solomon the preacher is giving me a hard time, as though he begrudged anyone lecturing on him. But he must yield." [Bornkam]

"Some pastors and preachers are lazy and no good. They do not pray; they do not read; they do not search the Scripture....The call is: watch, study attend to reading. In truth you cannot read too much in Scripture; and what you read carefully you cannot read too carefully, and what you understand well you cannot teach too well, and what you teach well you cannot live too well... The devil... the world...and our flesh are raging and raving against us. Therefore, dear sirs and brothers, pastors and preachers, pray, read, study, be diligent... This evil, shameful time is not the season for being lazy, for sleeping and snoring." [Mueser: Luther the Preacher; 40-41]

"That the Holy Scriptures cannot be penetrated by study and talent is most certain. Therefore your first duty is to begin to pray, and to this affect that if it please God to accomplish something for His glory- not for yours or any other person's- he very graciously grant you a true understanding of His words. For no master of the divine words exists except the Author of these words, as He says: "They shall be all taught of God" [John 6:45]. You must, therefore, completely despair of your own industry and ability and rely solely on the inspiration of the Spirit." 

"Be assured that no one will make a doctor of the Holy Scripture save the Holy Ghost from heaven." 

"If I could today become a king or emperor, I would not give up my office as preacher."

"Dear Lord God, I want to preach so that you are glorified. I want to speak of you, praise you, praise your name. Although I probably cannot make it turn out well, won't you make it turn out well?"

"The household sweat is great; the political sweat is greater; the church sweat is the greatest."
"Do not bind yourself to Aristotle, or any other teacher of a deceitful philosophy, but read the Word of God with diligence. Do not look for salvation in your own strength or in your good works, but in the merits of Christ and in God's grace."

"Do not let the wise of our days expect from me humility, or rather hypocrisy, enough to ask for their advice, before publishing what duty compels me to say. Whatever I do will be done, not by the prudence of men, but by counsel of God. If the work be of God, who shall stop it? If it be not, who can forward it? Not my will, nor theirs, nor ours; but thy will, O Holy Father, which art in heaven."

"Well! If he likes it, let him abuse me, let him call me a heretic, schismatic, slanderer, and whatever he pleases: I shall  not be his enemy for that, and I shall pray for him as a friend....But I cannot suffer him to treat the Holy Scriptures, our consolation [Rom. 15:4], as a sow treats a sack of oats."
"I have no will but the Lord's. Let Him do with me as seemeth good to Him. But if I had four hundred heads, I would rather lose them all than retract the testimony which I have borne to the holy Christian faith."

"The gospel cannot be defended without tumult and without scandal. The Word of God is a sword, -a war, -a ruin, – a stumbling block, -a destruction, -a  poison; and as Amos says, it meets us like a bear in the road or a lioness in the forest." 

"Let them destroy my works! I deserve nothing better; for all my wish has been to lead souls to the Bible, so that they might afterwards neglect my writings. Great God! if we had a knowledge of Scripture, what need would there be of any books of mine?"

"Is it not clear, according to Scripture, that the persecutors are generally wrong and the persecuted are generally right; that the majority has ever been on the side of falsehood, and the minority on that of truth? Truth in every age has caused an outcry."

"If the gospel was of nature to be propagated or maintained by the powers of this world, God would not have entrusted it to fishermen. It belongs not to the princes and pontiffs of this age to defend the Word of God. They have enough to do to shelter themselves from the judgments of the Lord and of His Anointed. If I speak, it is in order that they may attain a knowledge of the divine Word and that by it they may be saved."

Quote from: Ladonia Today at 10:29:56Come on, which one have you aligned your self to and which man started it? (Or was it a woman?)

You do not know him, nevertheless, I will tell you...Are you listening carefully? PAUL, the apostle to the Gentiles. It matters little what name is on the outside of a meeting house of professors, but does their doctrine align with the Holy Scriptures~if yes, then they are of Christ, if not then they are not of Christ, it's just that simple. The faithful live by every word of God and detest the traditions and commandments of men.