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There is a video called "Pastor" Steve Anderson Exposed-Documentary.  If you do a search on Yahoo, it will be the first hit.  Hit on the link.  Watch it, it is very revealing for protestants.  There are protestants who were thankful for the video because they admitted that they were taken in by this guy.

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 21:10:32
There is a video called "Pastor" Steve Anderson Exposed-Documentary.  If you do a search on Yahoo, it will be the first hit.  Hit on the link.  Watch it, it is very revealing for protestants.  There are protestants who were thankful for the video because they admitted that they were taken in by this guy.

Don't even know who this guy is, so why should I care?

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 21:52:30
Don't even know who this guy is, so why should I care?

Because he preaches what you believe.  And boy, is this guy inconsistent.  He contradicts himself so much, its so obvious.

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 22:59:25
Because he preaches what you believe.  And boy, is this guy inconsistent.  He contradicts himself so much, its so obvious.

No, he doesn't preach what "we" believe.  He preaches what a particular little oddball group of Baptists believe.  Problems with a strict, hyper-fundy Baptist fraction do not disprove Baptist beliefs in general, let alone Protestant beliefs, any more than snake-handlers or "Oneness" sects disprove Pentecostal beliefs in general.

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 22:59:25
Because he preaches what you believe.  And boy, is this guy inconsistent.  He contradicts himself so much, its so obvious.

Wrong.

You would know that if you looked into the various Protestant denominations and their true Essentials of Faith., and Confessions of Faith.

While there are some Protestant churches who are at odds with others, as well as denominational odds, that certainly is no different then
the Roman Catholics who do worship and place Mary equal to and in some cases higher then Jesus to those who just venerate her as being
special among women for having birthed our savior.

Before taking the word of a loon, you need to look into what we Protestants do believe, and what our worship is all about

With the exception of the odd insignificant twist or turn, this is what we believe;

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)


And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)


And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)


In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)


We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

Quote from: Alan on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:41:38
With the exception of the odd insignificant twist or turn, this is what we believe;

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)


And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)


And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)


In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)


We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

Amen.

Quote from: Isaias on Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 21:10:32
There is a video called "Pastor" Steve Anderson Exposed-Documentary.  If you do a search on Yahoo, it will be the first hit.  Hit on the link.  Watch it, it is very revealing for protestants.  There are protestants who were thankful for the video because they admitted that they were taken in by this guy.

Isaias,

This is a discussion forum not a cinema!

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:50:18
Isaias,

This is a discussion forum not a cinema!

 

Quote from: winsome on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:50:18
Isaias,

This is a discussion forum not a cinema!

This is an interesting statement.  Yes, this is a discussion forum and if you peruse this forum, you will find countless links to videos provided for the purpose of edification or as a cite to support what a person is posting.  Its not complicated.  And so, I think this statement above, is nothing more that an attempted distraction away from the video.

The video is here.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/pastor-steven-anderson-exposed/

Quote from: Ginger Rella on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:33:02
Wrong.

You would know that if you looked into the various Protestant denominations and their true Essentials of Faith., and Confessions of Faith.

While there are some Protestant churches who are at odds with others, as well as denominational odds, that certainly is no different then
the Roman Catholics who do worship and place Mary equal to and in some cases higher then Jesus to those who just venerate her as being
special among women for having birthed our savior.

Before taking the word of a loon, you need to look into what we Protestants do believe, and what our worship is all about

Catholics don't worship Mary.  Those who call themselves Catholic and do not hold to every truth of the Catholic church is not Catholic.  You equate unity with disunity.  And this is the point that I'm making with protestants, the denominations don't matter, they all claim to profess a faith with Jesus Christ, and at the same time they are at odds with themselves. At the end of the day all protesters, protest the one true church, the Catholic church.   I say this in charity.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 16:13:43
Catholics don't worship Mary.  Those who call themselves Catholic and do not hold to every truth of the Catholic church is not Catholic.  You equate unity with disunity.  And this is the point that I'm making with protestants, the denominations don't matter, they all claim to profess a faith with Jesus Christ, and at the same time they are at odds with themselves. At the end of the day all protesters, protest the one true church, the Catholic church.   I say this in charity.

They pray to Mary which is forbidden.
No we don't just claim to have a faith in Jesus Christ, we do.

Luke 11:1-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Model Prayer
11 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples."
2 So He said to them, "When you pray, say:
Our Father in heaven,[a]
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
3
Give us day by day our daily bread.
4
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one."[c]

Interesting that Jesus never mentioned one hail Mary.

10. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward—and even the memory of them disappears. What they loved, as well as what they hated and envied, perished long ago, and they no longer have a part in anything that happens on earth.

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 16:36:56
They pray to Mary which is forbidden.
No we don't just claim to have a faith in Jesus Christ, we do.

Luke 11:1-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Model Prayer
11 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples."
2 So He said to them, "When you pray, say:
Our Father in heaven,[a]
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
3
Give us day by day our daily bread.
4
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one."[c]

Interesting that Jesus never mentioned one hail Mary.

GM, do you pray for anyone, maybe a friend or a relative?  Is a prayer, an intercession to God, on the behalf of another?

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 16:13:43
Catholics don't worship Mary.  Those who call themselves Catholic and do not hold to every truth of the Catholic church is not Catholic.  You equate unity with disunity.  And this is the point that I'm making with protestants, the denominations don't matter, they all claim to profess a faith with Jesus Christ, and at the same time they are at odds with themselves. At the end of the day all protesters, protest the one true church, the Catholic church.   I say this in charity.

I've seen enough disagreement among Catholics here that your assertions are laughable.


Love God, Study His word, Love Jesus, find peace in your heart. I say this in charity.

Quote from: Alan on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 17:54:15

I've seen enough disagreement among Catholics here that your assertions are laughable.


Love God, Study His word, Love Jesus, find peace in your heart. I say this in charity.

What assertions, you didn't cite any to confirm that they are laughable?

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:46:25
 

Amen.

chosenone and alan, what is the odd twist or turn??

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 17:26:35
GM, do you pray for anyone, maybe a friend or a relative?  Is a prayer, an intercession to God, on the behalf of another?

I pray FOR people who are still alive, but I don't pray TO someone who has died.
However that has nothing to do with what I posted. God has never said that we should pray to Mary or any dead saints, and we are warned NOT to try and contact the dead.

Quote from: Isaias on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:16:08
chosenone and alan, what is the odd twist or turn??

Non-salvation-theological differences, tomato-tomato.

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:21:57
I pray FOR people who are still alive, but I don't pray TO someone who has died.
However that has nothing to do with what I posted. God has never said that we should pray to Mary or any dead saints, and we are warned NOT to try and contact the dead.

Mary and the Saints in heaven are alive.

Where were we warned NOT to try and contact the dead?

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 16:44:58
10. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward—and even the memory of them disappears. What they loved, as well as what they hated and envied, perished long ago, and they no longer have a part in anything that happens on earth.

And your point is what?

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 05:34:10
Mary and the Saints in heaven are alive.

Where were we warned NOT to try and contact the dead?

Deut. 18:11.

Technically, as that is part of the Law, it may only have applied to Israel.  Still, I doubt even the most antinomian and libertarian of New Covenant believers would consider it a good idea to practice spell-casting, spiritism, etc., the other things proscribed there.

Quote from: winsome on Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 05:35:03
And your point is what?

Had I posted that, my point would have been that those who have died, whether they now be in Paradise or the pit, no longer hear us, are aware of us, have anything to do with what happens here.  So praying to them will at best accomplish nothing.  At worst -- and this is admittedly speculative -- it could incite activity by counterfeit spirits *pretending* to be those departed souls to whom one prayed.

Quote from: NorrinRadd on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 13:13:03
Deut. 18:11.

Technically, as that is part of the Law, it may only have applied to Israel.  Still, I doubt even the most antinomian and libertarian of New Covenant believers would consider it a good idea to practice spell-casting, spiritism, etc., the other things proscribed there.

Exactly, the context is divination and trying to ascertain the future. The Catholic Church condemns that.

However it is very different to asking those in heaven for their intercession.

Quote from: NorrinRadd on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 13:16:57
Had I posted that, my point would have been that those who have died, whether they now be in Paradise or the pit, no longer hear us, are aware of us, have anything to do with what happens here.  So praying to them will at best accomplish nothing.  At worst -- and this is admittedly speculative -- it could incite activity by counterfeit spirits *pretending* to be those departed souls to whom one prayed.

We know that those in heaven are aware of what is happening on earth...

The writer of Hebrews uses the image of running a race with those who have gone before us cheering us on. "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us." (Heb 12:1).

This follows his recalling of the heroes of the Old Testament and says about them "Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better so that they would not, apart from us, be made perfect." (Heb 11:39-40).

So they are alive witnessing us in our struggles. But they did not immediately receive what was promised, they had to wait for "something better so that they would not, apart from us, be made perfect."So it follows that the Saints are alive with them, having been made perfect.

....and they do hear our prayers because they are offering them to God.

"When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." (Rev 5:8)

"Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne." (Rev 8:3).

Quote from: winsome on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 14:15:17
Exactly, the context is divination and trying to ascertain the future. The Catholic Church condemns that.

However it is very different to asking those in heaven for their intercession.

Asking those in heaven for their intercession is antithetical to the New Covenant.

Matthew 27:51

51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.


Hebrews 10

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a [h]sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 14:24:38
Asking those in heaven for their intercession is antithetical to the New Covenant.

Matthew 27:51

51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.


Hebrews 10

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a [h]sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Paul asked others to pray for him. Was that antithetical to the New Covenant?

  "Pray also for me, so that when I speak, a message may be given to me to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it boldly, as I must speak."(Eph 6:19-20)

"At the same time pray for us as well....."(Col 4:3)

"Beloved, pray for us."(1Thess 5:25)

"Finally, brothers and sister, pray for us....."(2 Thess 3:1)

"Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things." (Heb 13:18)

Quote from: winsome on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 14:36:19
 
Paul asked others to pray for him. Was that antithetical to the New Covenant?

  "Pray also for me, so that when I speak, a message may be given to me to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it boldly, as I must speak."(Eph 6:19-20)

"At the same time pray for us as well....."(Col 4:3)

"Beloved, pray for us."(1Thess 5:25)

"Finally, brothers and sister, pray for us....."(2 Thess 3:1)

"Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things." (Heb 13:18)

I see nowhere where he asked for intercession of those who are dead.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 14:42:51
I see nowhere where he asked for intercession of those who are dead.

Agreed. Prayer is for those who are alive. Once we are dead prayer will not change anything.

I don't think praying to Mary equals communicating with the dead.
Obviously when scripture talks about communicating with the dead the intent is to seek our demonic powers. I do not see that intent displayed in the Catholic practice to pray to Mary or the saints.
Whether we can or should pray to dead people in my opinion is irrelevant, the far more compelling question is WHY does the Catholic Church teach we ought to pray to Mary.

The Catholic doctrine is that the Father and the Son are too preoccupied or unwilling to hear all our prayers and respond in kind.
Jesus is kind of uninterested and needs to be pushed by His mother to "do the right thing". Jesus sometimes drops the ball, and then Mary has to revive His conscience.
In turn Jesus, whilst being pushed by Mary, then has to go to His Father and push Him.
And since the Father can't ignore Jesus, and Jesus can't ignore Mary...we get what we desire.

The Catholic doctrine has ingrained the idea that without Mary it would be far more difficult to find favor in the eyes of God.
Without Mary our prayers may be in vain as God may have other things on His mind.
The only way for us to get maximum result is to get Mary involved, she holds the power to get our requests to the attention from the Father and the Son.

This doctrine by the Catholic Church is deeply disturbing.
It is not so much the elevation of Mary that goes against sound theology, it is far more the degradation of God's character. It is a direct attack on His deity.

The validity of praying to and for each other is insignificant to the much bigger question if God indeed is apathetic towards His creation.
Maybe as a Christian you could be enticed to pray to or for a dead person, but to accept the attack on God's sovereignty and divine character that logically follows, is irreconcilable with the Christian faith.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 14:42:51
I see nowhere where he asked for intercession of those who are dead.

That wasn't the argument that you put forward.

This one has already been answered - they are alive in heaven.

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 16:07:47
 

Agreed. Prayer is for those who are alive. Once we are dead prayer will not change anything.

How do you know that? Mary and the Saints in heaven are alive. Why would their prayers not change anything?

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:46:25
 

Amen.

Dear soul and all other believers in Jesus Christ, that is Nicene creed which is pure is Catholicism which denies the deity of Jesus Christ~by it teaching, even though they would say they are not, but they are.

Quote We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15) ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)

Amen

QuoteFather (Matthew 6: 9) Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3) Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1) and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16) [/size

Amen...agreed

QuoteAnd in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17) Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16) Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)

Amen.

QuoteBegotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2) Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5) True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5) Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)

Jesus was begotten according to Luke one~ two thousand years ago .....IMPOSSIBLE that he was begotten before all ages, that with in itself destroys Jesus CHRIST being the I'AM THAT I'AM. In the beginning was GOD ....PERIOD! The Word which was God joined Himself to the tabernacle of Jesus and was manifested in human flesh all around two thousand years ago. Mary was his mother in TIME not BEFORE ALL AGES. The Godhead cannot be derived or propagated. The very thought of this in a positive manner is blasphemy against the Godhead. There cannot be true Divinity where there is NO self-existence, Infinity, Independence, eternal both ways, etc. etc. There is a designated thread that is dealing with these things at present. http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/who-is-jesus-christ-98847/msg1055095689/?topicseen#msg1055095689

Jesus was not begotten of Mary.

The Creed says "he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary".

There is a good article here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

Quote from: winsome on Wed Feb 28, 2018 - 05:24:23Jesus was not begotten of Mary.

My friend, No one said that Jesus was begotten of Mary, that's so unreasonable and beyond imaginable~it is the males that do the begotten using the female's womb.  They can give a blood test to males to see if a baby belongs to him or not~better yet let me quote from Williams' Practice of Obstetrics, Third Edition

Quote from: Science"For the purpose of understanding its general functions it is sufficient to recall that the placenta consists essentially of vascular chorionic papillae from the foetus  (the unborn child) bathed in the large blood spaces of the decidual membrane of the mother. The fetal and maternal blood DO NOT COME INTO ACTUAL CONTACT. THEY ARE SEPARATED FROM EACH OTHER by the walls of the fetal blood vessels and the epithelial layers of the chorionic villae."

"The fetal blood in the vessels of the chorionic villae AT NO TIME GAINS ACCESS TO THE MATERNAL BLOOD in the intervillous space, BEING SEPARATED FROM ONE ANOTHER by the double layer of chorionic epithelium."

And from page 136 of the same recognized textbook I quote,

"Normally there is no communication between the fetal blood and the maternal blood."

Now for the benefit of those of you who may be nurses, let me quote from a textbook which is familiar to you. Quoting from  "Nurse's Handbook of Obstetrics" by Louise Zabriskie, R.N., Fifth Edition, page 75:

"When the circulation of the blood begins in the embryo, it remains separate and distinct from that of the mother. All food and waste material which are interchanged between the embryo and the mother must pass through the blood vessel walls from one circulation to the other."
     
And from page 82 of the same book:

"The  foetus receives its nourishment and oxygen from the mothers blood into its own through the medium of the placenta. The fetal heart pumps blood through the arteries of the umbilical cord into the placental vessels, which, looping in and out of the uterine tissue and lying in close contact with the uterine vessels, permit a diffusion, through their walls, of waste products from child to mother and of nourishment and oxygen from mother to child. As has been said, this interchange is effected by the process of osmosis, and there is no direct mingling of the two blood currents. In other words, no maternal blood actually flows to the foetus, nor is there any direct fetal blood flow to the mother."

You said:

QuoteThe Creed says "he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary".

Jesus DID NOT become incarnate through Mary~Immanuel DID! Big difference. He did so in the person of God's Son, Jesus. Immanuel was NOT conceived, Jesus, the Son of God was conceived~who was BOTH the Son of MAN, and the Son of God.