Christian Forums

Quote from: Alan on Sun Aug 19, 2018 - 13:51:16

The hard line 

Isa 55:8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Yes, this is a hard line for fallen humanity, nonetheless true.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The majority have, do, and will continue to place greater faith in the things of this world, than the word of God. This will not in any way shape or form effect the accuracy and predicted outcome of the same, by the same. We came from the dust and shall return to the dust, God's word endures forever.

Ps 100 1 (A Psalm of praise.) Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. 2 Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing. 3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. 4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. 5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

Ps 119:158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word. 159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness. 160 Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Since God shows us His creation, we can confidently believe what He shows us.   

Scripture, particularly Genesis, is consistent with evolution, but it is not consistent with YE creation.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Sun Aug 26, 2018 - 02:30:52
Since God shows us His creation, we can confidently believe what He shows us.   

Scripture, particularly Genesis, is consistent with evolution, but it is not consistent with YE creation.

Then why don't you share some of that scripture with us? Present the scripture, then explain why it means what you say it means rather than what it plainly states.

Quote from: RB on Sat Apr 15, 2017 - 15:37:57
A WiseMan saying..... Evolution versus the Biblical account of creation. I will give some thoughts daily for the believer's mediations concerning God's marvelous creation and how detail everything is in perfect harmony.

Sufficient evidence for Intelligent Design is available, but it is suppressed.  Serious questions about the veracity of evolutionary theory have been raised, but they have been ignored.

It is not the sufficiency of evidence that is the issue.  It is suppression of it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Quote from: Choir Loft on Mon Aug 27, 2018 - 07:45:29

It is not the sufficiency of evidence that is the issue.  It is suppression of it.

It's been said many times before that there just doesn't exist ANY evidence to form a logical objection to evolution and the age of the universe. Add to that, secular science has also never provided any evidence that counters evolution, YEC revolves around a handful of Christians that cling to what they believe to be literal verses in Genesis and from that they establish their agenda. 

Quote from: Alan on Mon Aug 27, 2018 - 08:08:50

It's been said many times before that there just doesn't exist ANY evidence to form a logical objection to evolution and the age of the universe. Add to that, secular science has also never provided any evidence that counters evolution, YEC revolves around a handful of Christians that cling to what they believe to be literal verses in Genesis and from that they establish their agenda.

Why would secular science provide evidence that counters evolution? YEC simply means those who believe the Bible. Others do not.

https://www.allaboutworldview.org/secular-science.htm

QuoteSecular Science

Secular Science – Introduction
The core of Secular Science is well-summarized by George Gaylord Simpson, "Man is the result of a purposeless and natural process that did not have him in mind. He was not planned. He is a state of matter, a form of life, a sort of animal, and a species of the Order Primates, akin nearly or remotely to all of life and indeed to all that is material."1

Belief in evolution is as crucial to Humanism's worldview as are its atheistic theology and naturalistic philosophy. In fact, the Humanist's ideas about the origin of life can be considered a special dimension of these disciplines. Without the theory of evolution, the Humanist would have to rely on God as the explanation for life, which would necessarily destroy his atheism. Therefore, every Secular Humanist embraces the theory of evolution.

The Humanist Manifesto I states, "Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as the result of a continuous process."2 This belief is echoed in the Humanist Manifesto II, which claims that "science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces."3 And in Humanist Manifesto 2000 Kurtz says, "The theory of evolution and the standards of ecology should also be studied."4

For the Humanist, atheistic evolution is not one option among many, but rather the only option compatible with their worldview. Creationism, or Intelligent Design, is considered an enemy of science.

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Science is not humanism.   Humanism is a Christian movement dating to the Renaissance.  You've confused this with secular humanism, which is for most of those who believe in it, an oxymoron.

Science isn't secular humanism, either.  It's merely the best way humans can understand the way the physical universe works.   Evolution is merely what we observe happening around us in living populations.   Evolutionary theory describes how it works.

What most creationists think of as "evolution",  are various consequences of evolution, such as common descent.   The evidence for common descent is overwhelmng and from many different sources, most notably, many confirmed predictions of the theory.

This is why scientists accept it.

Some forms of creationism, although contradicted by the evidence around us, are not incompatible with scripture.   YE creationism, with it's "life ex nihilo" doctrine, is in direct opposition to Genesis.  However, it is not a salvation issue, and in the long run, it really doesn't matter whether you accept evolution or not.

QuoteThen why don't you share some of that scripture with us?

God says in Genesis that life was not created ex nihilo, but rather was produced by other created things, as God intended.

Genesis 1:26 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

QuotePresent the scripture, then explain why it means what you say it means rather than what it plainly states.

As you see, it plainly states that life came from the Earth, and was not created from nothing.  And it says this is what God intended.   However, it does not detail how this happened, or how the diversity of life came about.   So it's consistent with all sorts of things, including evolution.   We accept the fact of evolution because we observe it, not because scripture says anything at all about it, either to support it or deny it.   Pretty much the way we accept the reality of protons and the Van Allen Belts.

Quote from: Amo on Mon Aug 27, 2018 - 21:10:06
Why would secular science provide evidence that counters evolution? YEC simply means those who bereave the Bible. Others do not.

Because if there exists any merit to the works being purported by the YEC's, at least some secular scientists would be on board with the hypothesis, instead what is continuously revealed is that the claims are absurd and cannot be substantiated. Keep in mind that the goal of science is NOT to disprove God, science is much more interested in the facts. Biased agendas are much more in tune with YEC's that continuously divide themselves against the scientific community.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Tue Aug 28, 2018 - 00:12:31
Science is not humanism.   Humanism is a Christian movement dating to the Renaissance.  You've confused this with secular humanism, which is for most of those who believe in it, an oxymoron.

Science isn't secular humanism, either.  It's merely the best way humans can understand the way the physical universe works.   Evolution is merely what we observe happening around us in living populations.   Evolutionary theory describes how it works.

What most creationists think of as "evolution",  are various consequences of evolution, such as common descent.   The evidence for common descent is overwhelmng and from many different sources, most notably, many confirmed predictions of the theory.

This is why scientists accept it.

Some forms of creationism, although contradicted by the evidence around us, are not incompatible with scripture.   YE creationism, with it's "life ex nihilo" doctrine, is in direct opposition to Genesis.  However, it is not a salvation issue, and in the long run, it really doesn't matter whether you accept evolution or not.

God says in Genesis that life was not created ex nihilo, but rather was produced by other created things, as God intended.

Genesis 1:26 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

As you see, it plainly states that life came from the Earth, and was not created from nothing.  And it says this is what God intended.   However, it does not detail how this happened, or how the diversity of life came about.   So it's consistent with all sorts of things, including evolution.   We accept the fact of evolution because we observe it, not because scripture says anything at all about it, either to support it or deny it.   Pretty much the way we accept the reality of protons and the Van Allen Belts.

I have confused nothing. The article and link provided are not mine. Send your rant to WORLDVIEW.

Quote from: Alan on Tue Aug 28, 2018 - 05:53:58

Because if there exists any merit to the works being purported by the YEC's, at least some secular scientists would be on board with the hypothesis, instead what is continuously revealed is that the claims are absurd and cannot be substantiated. Keep in mind that the goal of science is NOT to disprove God, science is much more interested in the facts. Biased agendas are much more in tune with YEC's that continuously divide themselves against the scientific community.

HOGWASH! People choose their faith, or world view if you will, then seek to back it up. Some secular scientists have converted in the past, and some who believed scripture have converted as well. Faith is the issue, that is all. Apart from God humanity seeks to establish faith in itself, in its own observations and hypotheses in contrast to the plain testimony of the word of God. This is the faith they have chosen. The term YEC's is just a label given to those whose faith is in the word of God over and above the same.

Heb 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This is the faith you and yours reject.

QuoteI have confused nothing.

You've confused Humanism, which is a Christian movement, with "secular humanism" which is an oxymoron.

Apart from the relation between God and man such as exists in Jesus Christ, all that we said would be equivocal and dangerous and even false. What was said about the relations between divine and beatitude and human happiness, between the glory of God and the glory of man is then an abstract truth: it is the explanation of the basic theses of Christian theology. What we say concerning the relationship of God and man, we say it in Jesus Christ. It is first in Christ that there is a coincidence of divine glory and human glory. It is in him that the encounter between divine beatitude and human happiness takes place. There is no humanity "in relation to God" that was not first realized and prefigured in "Jesus Christ"...In order to fulfill the true humanism, then we must believe in Jesus Christ. There is no humanism without the Gospel.
Karl Barth, The Faith of the Church


The article and link provided are not mine. Send your rant to WORLDVIEW.

QuoteBecause if there exists any merit to the works being purported by the YEC's, at least some secular scientists would be on board with the hypothesis, instead what is continuously revealed is that the claims are absurd and cannot be substantiated.

Although YE creationism is an error, there is much that is good and Godly in many YE creationists.    I'm not suggesting that you think otherwise; I'm merely noting that almost all YE creationists are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

QuoteKeep in mind that the goal of science is NOT to disprove God, science is much more interested in the facts. Biased agendas are much more in tune with YEC's that continuously divide themselves against the scientific community.

It is an unfortunate doctrine, not founded in scripture.   Like geocentrism, it gets more attention than it deserves.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Sat Sep 01, 2018 - 12:32:39
You've confused Humanism, which is a Christian movement, with "secular humanism" which is an oxymoron.

Apart from the relation between God and man such as exists in Jesus Christ, all that we said would be equivocal and dangerous and even false. What was said about the relations between divine and beatitude and human happiness, between the glory of God and the glory of man is then an abstract truth: it is the explanation of the basic theses of Christian theology. What we say concerning the relationship of God and man, we say it in Jesus Christ. It is first in Christ that there is a coincidence of divine glory and human glory. It is in him that the encounter between divine beatitude and human happiness takes place. There is no humanity "in relation to God" that was not first realized and prefigured in "Jesus Christ"...In order to fulfill the true humanism, then we must believe in Jesus Christ. There is no humanism without the Gospel.
Karl Barth, The Faith of the Church


The article and link provided are not mine. Send your rant to WORLDVIEW.

I have confused nothing. Secular science was brought forward in a message as proof against biblical creationism, I provided a link and article that addressed secular science. I care nothing for or about secular humanism, humanism, or other constructs of fallen humanity concerning the spiritual truths and reality of holy scripture. The latter is over and above all of the same and any and all including Karl Barth.

https://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/6/101-the-earth-in-time-and-space/

An excellent video and series for any interested in biblical creationism.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Sat Sep 01, 2018 - 12:36:38
Although YE creationism is an error, there is much that is good and Godly in many YE creationists.    I'm not suggesting that you think otherwise; I'm merely noting that almost all YE creationists are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Of course but it isn't you or I that feel those that are opposed to our views are "faltering Christians" heading toward doomsday. I personally respect those that would say their faith alone allows them to believe as they do.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Sep 01, 2018 - 12:57:37
https://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/6/101-the-earth-in-time-and-space/

An excellent video and series for any interested in biblical creationism.

And just what makes that an excellent video?

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Sep 01, 2018 - 17:37:06
And just what makes that an excellent video?

I said excellent video for those interested in biblical creationism, not those apposed to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Veith

Walter Veith is a converted evolutionist and professor of zoology. He knows exactly what he is arguing, having believed and taught evolution himself for many years.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Walter_Veith

Quote from: Alan on Sat Sep 01, 2018 - 19:28:53
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Walter_Veith

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:General_disclaimer

http://walterveith.com/index.html

https://everipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Veith/

Why get second hand info from those who may be agenda driven. Here it from the man himself, and decide for yourself.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=walter+veith+personal+testimony&view=detail&mid=98FBD1575B85BF7D30A398FBD1575B85BF7D30A3&FORM=VIRE

QuoteOf course but it isn't you or I that feel those that are opposed to our views are "faltering Christians" heading toward doomsday. I personally respect those that would say their faith alone allows them to believe as they do.

There are many such.   Unfortunately, because they recognize that it's not a salvation issue, they don't raise their voices much.   So we often get the wrong idea about creationists thereby.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Mon Sep 03, 2018 - 18:37:17
There are many such.   Unfortunately, because they recognize that it's not a salvation issue, they don't raise their voices much.   So we often get the wrong idea about creationists thereby.

All lies constitute a very real threat to the salvation of those propagating them.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=devolution+not+evolution&&view=detail&mid=5505901BD3CD867235F15505901BD3CD867235F1&&FORM=VRDGAR

Quote from: Amo on Sat Sep 08, 2018 - 18:08:23
All lies constitute a very real threat to the salvation of those propagating them.

So then, stop lying 

The only way one can understand how everything exists is by faith. Without faith, any understanding, scientific or not, falls short of the truth.

Hebrews 11:3

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Revelation 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

QuoteAll lies constitute a very real threat to the salvation of those propagating them.

I don't think you recognize them as lies.   You are mistaken, not trying to deceive.   But though you're wrong about this, your salvation isn't at stake. 

It's not a good idea to present man's ideas as God's word, however.   That is the real mischief that YE creationism does.   It sets an unnecessary barrier against those who might otherwise come to Him, but know that YE creationism cannot be true.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Sep 08, 2018 - 18:24:02

So then, stop lying 

God will determine who is lying and who is not. No one will be laughing about it at that time.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Mon Sep 10, 2018 - 10:31:54
I don't think you recognize them as lies.   You are mistaken, not trying to deceive.   But though you're wrong about this, your salvation isn't at stake. 

It's not a good idea to present man's ideas as God's word, however.   That is the real mischief that YE creationism does.   It sets an unnecessary barrier against those who might otherwise come to Him, but know that YE creationism cannot be true.

Good example of the end results of believing lies. A complete denial of what scripture simply and conclusively states, followed by the accusation that those who believe such are in error and deception. This demonstrating greater faith in the words of Darwin and his followers, than those of Moses inspired and approved by God Himself. YE creationism is true, Moses was and is right, God's fourth commandment is truth, and you are wrong. Your soul is in danger for believing and propagating lies. God will judge between our very differing views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1216&v=M2XAekx9ySM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=37&v=K1uZQWbboYs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=123&v=jHn0oe19DTA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=80&v=H43MGAUfWLc

https://creation.com/dinosaur-bones-just-how-old-are-they-really

Quoteby  Carl Wieland

Most people think that fossil bones (of which the most well-known examples are those of dinosaurs) must be very, very old—because, after all, they have turned to stone, haven't they?

Even millions of years might, to some, not even seem long enough to allow for natural processes to gradually, molecule by molecule, replace the original substance of the bone with rock minerals.

But this common picture is misleading. A recent book, co-authored by a world expert on dinosaurs, points out some things about dinosaur bones that are of great interest to creationists.1

For one thing, it says:

'Bones do not have to be "turned into stone" to be fossils, and usually most of the original bone is still present in a dinosaur fossil.'2
Ok, but even if the actual bone is not replaced by rock minerals, some fossil dinosaur bones are rock-hard, and show under the microscope when cut that they have been thoroughly 'permineralized.' This means that rock minerals have been deposited into all the spaces within the original bone. Doesn't this show that the formation of these fossils, at least, must represent a long time? Think again. The same authoritative work also tells us:

'The amount of time that it takes for a bone to become completely permineralized is highly variable. If the groundwater is heavily laden with minerals in solution, the process can happen rapidly. Modern bones that fall into mineral springs can become permineralized within a matter of weeks.'

So even a rock-solid, hard shiny fossil dinosaur bone, showing under the microscope that all available spaces have been totally filled with rock minerals, does not indicate that it necessarily took millions of years to form at all.

Now of course if a dinosaur bone is indeed permineralized, it would give it great protection from the normal processes which cause things such as bone to just naturally 'fall apart.' So a permineralized bone might indeed be anything from a few weeks to millions of years old.

However, in a situation where the dinosaur bone has been prevented from being invaded by mineral-rich water, one would expect that over millions of years, even locked away from all bacterial agents, dinosaur bone would, in obeying the laws of thermodynamics,3  just disintegrate from the random motions of the molecules therein.

There are actually instances, mentioned in the same book, in which dinosaur bones in Alberta, Canada, were encased in ironstone nodules shortly after being buried. We are told:

'The nodules prevented water from invading the bones, which for all intents and purposes cannot be distinguished from modern bone.'4

This is a stunning revelation. Evolutionists are convinced that all dinosaur bones must be at least 65 million years old. Those who take Genesis as real history would predict that no dinosaur bone is more than a few thousand years old, so the existence of such totally unmineralized dinosaur bones that have not disintegrated is perfectly consistent with our expectations.

We have previously told you about the unfossilized dinosaur bone which still contained red blood cells and hemoglobin.5  Also, we wrote about 'fresh dinosaur bones' in Alaska.6  Let the evolutionist experts writing this book confirm this:

'An even more spectacular example was found on the North Shore of Alaska, where many thousands of bones lack any significant degree of permineralization. The bones look and feel like old cow bones, and the discoverers of the site did not report it for twenty years because they assumed they were bison, not dinosaur, bones.'

In summary, therefore:

1. Most fossil dinosaur bones still contain the original bone.

2. Even when heavily permineralized ('fossilized'), this does not need to require more than a few weeks. The Creation/Flood scenario for fossilization would allow many centuries for such permineralization to occur, even under less than ideal conditions.

3. Where bones have not been protected by permineralization, they are sometimes found in a condition which to all intents and purpose looks as if they are at most centuries, not millions of years old.

The Bible's account of the true history of the world makes it clear that no fossil can be more than a few thousand years old. Dinosaur bones give evidence strongly consistent with this.

It's only a lie if you're knowingly perpetuating an untruth. For me, there exists absolutely no doubt that evolution is an irrefutable fact; no lies here.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:40:44
It's only a lie if you're knowingly perpetuating an untruth. For me, there exists absolutely no doubt that evolution is an irrefutable fact; no lies here.

Yes, I know of your faith in fallen humanities observations above the words of scripture.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:58:00
Yes, I know of your faith in fallen humanities observations above the words of scripture.

It is not above the words of Scripture, but it most definitely is above your lever of understanding. You obviously believe in a flat earth with four "ends" and a sun that  "rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises" (Ecc 1:5); i.e. the sun goes around the earth. Clearly there can be no other way to read that.  The Bible says the sun  "hastens to the place where it rises".  If would take the faith in fallen humanity's observations to see that any other way.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 11:12:54
It is not above the words of Scripture, but it most definitely is above your lever of understanding. You obviously believe in a flat earth with four "ends" and a sun that  "rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises" (Ecc 1:5); i.e. the sun goes around the earth. Clearly there can be no other way to read that.  The Bible says the sun  "hastens to the place where it rises".  If would take the faith in fallen humanity's observations to see that any other way.

Of course I do, you said so didn't you? That is why evolution is unquestionably true as well, you said so, didn't you? Silly bible, obviously not true, you said so didn't you? By the way, a circle doesn't have four ends.

Isa 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? 13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? 15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. 16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. 18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? 19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. 20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved. 21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: 23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. 24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. 25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. 27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God? 28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Compared to God you are a puny person, with a puny mind, thinking and expressing puny thoughts. God's thoughts and actions are not, nor have ever been subject to your or any other puny fallen humans observations. The testimony He has given to His servants and recorded for us in the scriptures is as far above all puny fallen human observation as God Himself is above us.

Do all those speaking of the sun rising and setting today think the world is flat because they use this expression? Of course not. Only a puny agenda driven mind would declare it must be so when bible authors made similar statements.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 12:28:20Compared to God you are a puny person, with a puny mind, thinking and expressing puny thoughts.

And of course, you aren't.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:40:44
It's only a lie if you're knowingly perpetuating an untruth. For me, there exists absolutely no doubt that evolution is an irrefutable fact; no lies here.

You have faith in evolution.  Science calls it a theory.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 13:50:41You have faith in evolution.  Science calls it a theory.

By any measure it is pretty good theory.