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Kenneth Sublett:

QuoteIf one is confused by Matthew there are other versions.

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week,
          they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,
          he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week,
         very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre,
         bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,
        when it was yet dark,
        unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

These are NO 'versions' of Matthew 28:1! These had nothing to do with 'the event' you wrote of, namely, the end or ending of the Sabbath Day; or, with the 'event' of Jesus' Resurrection. Each of these Scriptures has its own 'event', own time of day or night of day, and own personae the Subjects/Objects of the independent 'events'.

Perhaps a further wording of the OP will make it a little more clear:

1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth" 

2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those  mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

6. I am simply asking anyone who thinks that it was common,  if they could provide examples to support that belief; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred. 

Kinneth Sublett,

You still have a question directed to you in post #117.

Since it's been awhile, maybe someone new looking in may know of examples.

Quote from: rstrats on Fri Feb 01, 2013 - 20:14:40
Jerry Shugart,

re:  "'A day and a night make an 'onah': and a Part of an 'onah' is as the Whole' (From the Jerusalem Talmud quoting Rabbi Eliazar ben Azariah, who lived during the first century)."


That quote by Rabbi Eliezar Ben Azariah, is contradicted by Rabbi Ismael, Rabbi Jochanan, and Rabbi Akiba (contemporaries of Azariah) who all agree that an onah was 12 hours long, either a day OR a night - A "Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica".


Do you have an actual example that supports Azariah's assertion?

Oy veh!  This is what happens when Gentiles discuss the Talmud.  They don't know what they're doing.

The Talmud is FULL of contradictory opinions, of course, because it is case law, so you hear both sides.  To understand it, to know how to read it, basically (getting down to the nitty gritty) to know what side won, you have to read it with a another Talmud scholar who is a master.  The interpretations have been orally passed down.

For now, it is enough to know that at least at one time, both those opinions were raised.  To know more, to know which view prevailed and when it prevailed, or if somehow both views were syncretized, someone in here needs to actually take out their cell phone and call the nearest orthodox shul to ask the Rabbi.

Like any good Jew would do!

Okay, I'm just going to add my little old two cents worth as a Messianic Jew.  Some of you are doing well.  Some of you have me scratching my head.


1.  When the Torah says to keep the Passover on the even of the 14th day of Nisan, it means the end of that day.  IOW, the beginning of the 15th of Nisan is the first day of Passover.  This is why Jesus sent his disciples out to get food and stuff on what?  The day of preparation. Thursday, Nisan 14. Then they had the Seder meal Thursday evening, the beginning of Nisan 15.  Institution of Eucharist, Prayer in Gethsemane, Betrayal and arrest, illegal trial by the Sanhedrin at night.  It was probably sometime around daybreak when Christ was brought before Pilate, Friday morning, Nisan 15.  Crucified at 9 AM, dead at 3 PM.  Buried before Sabbath started at sundown.  Sabbath, Nisan 16.  Sunday, Nisan 17, Christ rises some time before the women come to the tomb early in the morning.  He seems urgent to go to see the Father, so it would seem he has only just arisen.


Nisan 15, 16, 17.  Three days.  It's that simple.  There is no need to complicate things. 


Don't take literally things that are figurative sayings -- it drives everyone nuts.  If I say I'm spending the day with my mom, it does NOT mean 24 hours.

Open Heart,
re:  "Nisan 15, 16, 17.  Three days.  It's that simple."

How do you account for the lack of a third night?

QuoteWhen the Torah says to keep the Passover on the even of the 14th day of Nisan, it means the end of that day. 

The Torah says to keep the Passover or just "to passover" or to slaughter the passover "between the late quarters of days(light)" - 'behn-ha-arba-yim', viz., 3 p.m. "the ninth hour" that Jesus died, which is "late" from 'ereb'  in the day "the ninth hour" in its ending; not at its very end, sunset.

Eating the passover, "unleavened bread with the flesh", was never kept in the daylight, but "late" - 'ereb' IN THE AFTER SUNSET NIGHT of the following day, the fifteenth of the month. As for the date of the fifteenth, Exodus 12 is the only exception, days having been reckoned sunrise to sunrise in Egypt.

Open Heart,

You have a question directed to you in post #146.

QuoteRStrats:
re:  "Nisan 15, 16, 17.  Three days.  It's that simple."
How do you account for the lack of a third night?

How do you find 'a third night', 'lack'? Night and day Nisan 14 = 1 day; plus night and day Nisan 15 = 2 days; plus night and day Nisan 16 = "THREE DAYS thick darkness" of the Passover of Yahweh THROUGHOUT Scripture. What's your problem?

QuoteOpen Heart #145
'IOW, the beginning of the 15th of Nisan is the first day of Passover.'

'IOW' maybe... but "according to the Scriptures" the 14th of Nisan is the first day of Passover. It's that simple.

Sunday sacredness solidly and solely rests on christian MISCONCEPTION regarding the Scriptures' "three days" of Jesus' having been "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth".

It doesn't matter no Hebrews not abandoned to worship the starry host never attended WORSHIP SERVICES on the SABBATH which means REST FROM the Jew's laded burdens and burden laders.

Ex. 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread;
        even the FIRST DAY ye shall put away leaven out of your houses:
        for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day,
        that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

Ex. 12:16 And in the FIRST DAY there shall be an HOLY CONVOCATION , and in the SEVENTH DAY there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work [sending out ministers of God] shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

That is because all "worship of the starry host" involved the superstitious SEVENTHH DAY of the Week.   The Jewish Sabbath based on ASTROLOGY.



The Holy Convocation was a READING ONLY ASSEMBLY and leaders of small groups were not paid

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
        hath in every city [couldn't walk to Jerudalem]
        them that PREACH him,
        being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Mark 14:12 And the FIRST DAY of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the FIRST DAY of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

John 20:1 The FIRST DAY the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were ASSEMBLED for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The First Day of the Week was the first WORK day until Constantine. The Church like the synagogue was never a WORSHIP CENTER but a School of the Word with "speaking your own words outlawed" in Isaiah 55.

Paul to Timothy warned against JEWISH FABLES and the Prophets warn against the Lying Pen of the Scribes.

http://www.piney.com/2.Timothy.4.2.Giving.Heed.Jewish.Fables.html

Messianic Jews in my personal experience have passed themselves off as "kinda Christians" and have fleeced lots of shekals.  Messiah or Anointed is has, by God's Permission, adopted MESSIAS as the continuing worship of the Babylon Mother of Harlots.  That is why Jerusalem is called SODOM and the Mother of Harlots.

Genesis 1 speaks of the Casting Down of Light (intellegence) and Day (ignorance) by the Babylonian Elohim because Moses is warning the defacto Egyptians after they fell beyond redemption at Mount.

QuoteOpen Heart  Messianic Jew INFJ  Oy veh!  This is what happens when Gentiles discuss the Talmud.  They don't know what they're doing.

Abraham was NOT a Jew and Jacob warned the people not to enter into a covenant with Levi nor attend their synagogues.

Amos 9 promised that the SCATTERED SEED would not be "dropped" except a small Remnant of Jacob.

Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
        and gave them up to worship the HOST of heaven;
        as it is written in the book of the prophets,
        O ye house of Israel,  have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices
        by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

The Jew's burnt offerings or HOLOCAUSTS were INFANTS as well as GOATS.



Amos 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into
        captivity beyond Damascus,
        saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
        and the star of your god Remphan,
        figures which ye made to worship them:
        and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Is. 28:15 Because ye have said,
        We have made a covenant with DEATH,
        and with HELL are we at agreement;
        when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
         it shall not come unto us:
                for we have made lies our refuge,
                and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Is. 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Gen. 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1 speaks of the Casting Down of Light (intelligence) and Day (ignorance) by the Babylonian Elohim because Moses is warning the defacto Egyptians after they fell beyond redemption at Mount.

The Lord (YHWH) ONLY SPEAKS IN GENESIS 2. IN ISAIAH 45 THE LORD-GOD DENIED THAT HE CREATED THE GENESIS MESS.

The Jews were abandoned to the Civil-Military-Clergy never honored Jehovah the Lord God but turned everything including the planets, moon and the sun into Gods.  Jupiter is Saturn or STUR 666 like the Star of David which was worshipped

Day in Latin is:

dĭes    In gen., the civil day of twenty-four hours. Gr. dios, heavenly; cf. Lat. Jovis (Diovis), Diana, deus, dīvus

JESUS SPOKE TO THE JEWISH CLERGY ONLY IN PARABLES:

Matt. 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them;
        The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven,
        which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Matt. 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
        and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Matt. 13:35 That it might be fulfilled
        which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
        I will open my mouth in parables;
        I will utter things which have been
        kept secret from the foundation of the world.

h3117.  yowm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be HOT; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or FIGURATIVE (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, + always, + CHRONICLES, continually(-ance),  perpetually, presently, + remaineth, x required, SEASON, x since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather

Perhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.

QuotePerhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.

Another 'someone new' like Kenneth Sublett is all you'll get; I told you this is what dementia does to you.

Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Sun Oct 07, 2018 - 18:23:36Sunday sacredness solidly and solely rests on christian MISCONCEPTION regarding the Scriptures' "three days" of Jesus' having been "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth".

What misconception do you see regarding the Scriptures "three days in the heart of the earth"?

Open Heart,
re:  "Don't take literally things that are figurative sayings... If I say I'm spending the day with my mom, it does NOT mean 24 hours."

But would anyone think that it wouldn't include at least a portion of a calendar day?

rstrats,

Three days and three nights cannot mean three days and two nights.  That is why I asked Gerhard Ebersöhn what misconception.  It seems that he is saying the misconception is upon which day Jesus was raised.  I think the misconception is on which day Jesus died.

4WD,
re:  " I think the misconception is on which day Jesus died."


It is, but that's an issue for a different topic.

Quote4WD:
Three days and three nights cannot mean three days and two nights.  That is why I asked Gerhard Ebersöhn what misconception.  It seems that he is saying the misconception is upon which day Jesus was raised.  I think the misconception is on which day Jesus died.

There is misconception everywhere, about every day, about what happened on every day, about the days of the week, about the dates of the year, and about all the innumerable implications and conclusions.  YET THE SCRIPTURES ARE SO SIMPLE, UNCOMPLICATED, CLEAR, UNAMBIGUOUS, AND LITERALLY TRUE AND FAULTLESS!

The Bible day begins sunset and ends sunset; but there is one exception, in the first passover in Egypt. But in the Gospels this exception no longer existed. Therefore the first of the three days of Jesus' last passover BEGAN WITH ITS NIGHT. And This That Night began Jesus' Last Suffering "unto", and "exceeding death"--ALIVE! Christ's SUFFERING constituted "This That WHOLE NIGHT the SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY" Abib 14 Exodus 12:6-14.
Here is it beginning: Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30

Thus the first night of the three nights in Matthew 12:40.

The WCs cannot account for the first of the three nights. They wrongly have Jesus dead in the grave the first of the three nights.

Someone new visiting this topic who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, and tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language, may know of examples. 

QuoteRStrats:
Someone new visiting this topic who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, and tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language, may know of examples.

Yourself? Yourself!

Gerhard Ebersohn,
re:  "Yourself?"

No.  And if I were a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate and knew of examples I wouldn't have any reason to start this topic in the first place. 

So, you know everything you know we don't know, so why don't you simply tell us what you know?
After ALL THESE YEARS and dozens of 'perhaps somebody new's', you haven't progressed one inch?!
But I told you last time I spoke to you, That's what dementia does to you.

You forgot you told us all you are 'not a believer'. Therefore the only 'reason' you think you have to have 'started this topic in the first' and umpteenth place, is that you think you're too smart to be a believer and want to show believers how stupid they are. 

Gerhard Ebersohn,
re:  "So, you know everything you know we don't know, so why don't you simply tell us what you know?"

For the purpose of this topic the only thing I "know" is that no examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred have  yet been provided. 




re:  "After ALL THESE YEARS and dozens of 'perhaps somebody new's', you haven't progressed one inch?!"

Yes, that has been the case so far.




re:  "...you think you're too smart to be a believer..."

What have I written that causes you to make such an accusation?  And a believer with regard to what?   And for that matter what does it have to do with this topic? 





re:  "...and want to show believers how stupid they are."

If someone believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a resurrection on the 1st day of the week, and thinks the "heart of tomb" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment the Messiah's spirit left His body, and tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that He was employing common figure of speech/colloquial usage of the time, I would simply like to see actual examples to support the idea of commonality.

Quote4WD:
Three days and three nights cannot mean three days and two nights.  That is why I asked Gerhard Ebersöhn what misconception.  It seems that he is saying the misconception is upon which day Jesus was raised.  I think the misconception is on which day Jesus died.

Yes, Christ died on a Fifth Day of the week and rose, Matthew 28:1, "late on the Sabbath mid-afternoon before the First Day ('Sunday')" would start sunset "when the Sabbath was over". Mark 16:1.

All accepted theories, however, already go wrong on Crucifixion day because they ALL do away with the second "Whole-Day" of the "three days", BURIAL day, and force it onto the last or so minutes of Crucifixion day the first "Whole-Day" of the "three days". In other words, they ALL identify "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER" --the Fifth Day of the week, 'Thursday' Crucifixion day John 19:14; 18:28, with "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" and Sixth Day of the week ('Friday') Mark 15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 Luke 23:50-56a John 19:31-42, Joseph BURIED Jesus on.

That's the grotesque misconception causing the "three days and three nights" to mean "'three days and two nights'"--, that, and other misconceptions perceived and conceived in order to reach a Sunday-resurrection.

QuoteFor the purpose of this topic the only thing I "know" is that no examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred have  yet been provided. 

But you cannot believe what you have seen all these years, that there are, 'no examples' of such absolute nonsense. As simple as that. When will you accept the fact? Never, because then you have nothing to go on and on and on and on with. So it's not only dementia; it's also autism.

Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

QuoteRStrats:
Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

Examples of Alzheimer's and autism? o gosh... Reminds me of what I have heard about today, about what terrible combination Alzheimer's and . . . Fortunately I forgot now what it was that makes you run but you forgot to where or for what.

Since it's been awhile maybe someone new looking in who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, and tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language, may know of examples. 

QuoteStrats: #170
Since it's been awhile maybe someone new looking in who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, and tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language, may know of examples.

Your whole question is senseless because "the heart of the earth" does not <refer to the tomb> at all. And over three years still won't <refer to the tomb>

Gerhard Ebersöhn,
re:  "Your whole question is senseless because 'the heart of the earth' does not <refer to the tomb> at all."

But there are a lot of folks who think that it does.  This topic is directed to them. 

QuoteSpareWheelDrive: #156
What misconception do you see regarding the Scriptures "three days in the heart of the earth"?

I don't see or don't have <misconception regarding the Scripture "three days in the heart of the earth">. There's no such Scripture as YOUR pathetic fabrication, <the Scriptures "three days in the heart of the earth">.

Your spare wheel is punctured, flat, ruptured, kaput. No wonder you can't get along one inch forward in thought, what truth.

Point #5 in post #141 should be changed to read:  To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those  mentioned above who say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.