Christian Forums

Quote from: RB on Fri May 29, 2020 - 05:24:16
See: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/symbolic-jargon-vs-the-literal/msg1055164924/#msg1055164924

  it isn't correct.

  The Gog-Magog war will come first, while "Armageddon" will be when Jesus returns & the antichrist sends his army to attack Him. Jesus will destroy that army by the sharp sword that proceeds from His mouth, that is, His spoken word.

Quote from: robycop3 on Fri May 29, 2020 - 16:58:34
  it isn't correct.

  The Gog-Magog war will come first, while "Armageddon" will be when Jesus returns & the antichrist sends his army to attack Him. Jesus will destroy that army by the sharp sword that proceeds from His mouth, that is, His spoken word.

Prepare yourself robycop, that you don't fall into temptation then!

All the while, Jesus made at least Preterists free indeed.

You just don't know anything about the Bible. 
Just like Rella.  All you can do is post a passage or 2. All without understanding!

Quote from: robycop3 on Fri May 29, 2020 - 16:58:34 it isn't correct.

  The Gog-Magog war will come first, while "Armageddon" will be when Jesus returns & the antichrist sends his army to attack Him. Jesus will destroy that army by the sharp sword that proceeds from His mouth, that is, His spoken word.

Well you saying that and proving the same is the difference between truth and error~I believe there are NO MORE wars after Revelation 20:9! Making God-Magog and Armageddon one and the same. I gave you a link why not go there and prove it wrong.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:12:22
Prepare yourself robycop, that you don't fall into temptation then!

All the while, Jesus made at least Preterists free indeed.

You just don't know anything about the Bible. 
Just like Rella.  All you can do is post a passage or 2. All without understanding!

At least he does more than you do. You are playing the world's music and it has placed you into a deep relaxation making you believe you are in the truth...I believe that is called a strong delusion.

Quote from: RB on Sat May 30, 2020 - 14:05:18
At least he does more than you do. You are playing the world's music and it has placed you into a deep relaxation making you believe you are in the truth...I believe that is called a strong delusion.

Oh please, you are just as misinformed with false hope as he is.

Oh, I do play music because Jesus said "My peace I leave to you" And relaxation tapes sometimes. .

You and your other futurist clowns should try being in God's good graces and anticipating a grace filled life and future free of the past.

You call it a "strong delusion" because you misunderstand Bible prophecy.

I call it the Good News! That's the truth. That's the Faith.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:12:22
Prepare yourself robycop, that you don't fall into temptation then!

All the while, Jesus made at least Preterists free indeed.

You just don't know anything about the Bible. 
Just like Rella.  All you can do is post a passage or 2. All without understanding!

As I am mentioned here I shall reply.

All you can do is post a passage or 2. All without understanding!

Without understanding to you. It takes a certain basic intelligence to understand what you are reading.

That is why you need to rely on what others say to bolster your fantasy belief
and need to feel it has all happened and all is well in the world.

Well I have news for you . It is not well in the world, and Satan IS alive and  is freely running amok, and if you would pull your head out of the sand you would see that.

I know more about biblical stuff then you ever will because I study it and you don't.

You only know a few verses that you believe shore up your position and all else
is from what  people point out to you that you try to tie in to make it fit, even though it doesn't.

I was told Rev 12:12 proved ......"Therefore, we can deduce that the millennium was ALREADY FINISHED BACK THEN as John was writing.  Very simple deduction"
by one of your comrades.

Another example of making a scripture fit a belief when it is not even close and was pulled from the context of the chapter it was in.

Read reply #22 here
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/symbolic-jargon-vs-the-literal/msg1055165020/?topicseen#msg1055165020

As to being a Zionist.

I will own it.

After all. Look at all the wonderful Jews I will be rubbing elbows with in my eternity.
Apostles, disciples, and Jesus' family. And even the big guy himself. Jesus.

YES I do understand that they had given up their normal Jewish way of life.
A new religion was arising and the Jewish identity had to disappear and the Jewish way of life had to be  abandoned. As well as their attitude to the Torah (the Law of Moses, its teaching and its practical applications), in particular circumcision and the dietary rules.

But that does not discount their basic heritage. They could not and cannot today change their heritages. They deserve a homeland if that is what they want.


Personally,
I have a Star of David picture.  A small shofer mounted beneath 3 crosses , the center one larger, with a Star of David above adorning one wall.

All things that Jesus would have been accustomed to.

You did not forget Jesus was Jewish did you? You surely do not think that when Jesus turned the water into wine at that wedding it was a celbration of anything other then a Jewish wedding.

For heaven's sake. The last supper was a Passover Seder...with a twist.

All messianic Jews have that heritage.

But you seem to think it wrong to support anything of Israel.

"I"  am not a racist.
[/size]

Rella said:

Quote
Well I have news for you . It is not well in the world, and Satan IS alive and  is freely running amok, and if you would pull your head out of the sand you would see that.

I know more about biblical stuff then you ever will because I study it and you don't.

You find the pessimistic view of life when you ponder what's wrong with the "world" today.

There's where I have a happier time in life because I read the "Power of Positive Thinking" by Dr. Norman V. Peale, who was also a pastor.

See, pessimistic thinking attracts negative results.

Even if one only has mustard seed faith, optimism rules the day!

Matthew 6:21

21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

I get no "treasure" by being watchful for WW2 again.  Prosperity is linked to God's promises, provisions, and favor now and in the future. 

Quote from: RB on Sat May 30, 2020 - 14:00:52
Well you saying that and proving the same is the difference between truth and error~I believe there are NO MORE wars after Revelation 20:9! Making God-Magog and Armageddon one and the same. I gave you a link why not go there and prove it wrong.

  Just read the Scripture. "Armageddon" won't occur til very shortly AFTER Jesus returns, while Gog-Magog  is BEFORE He returns.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:12:22
Prepare yourself robycop, that you don't fall into temptation then!

  That'll be the great trib. Forewarned is forearmed. If it occurs in my lifetime, I won't be tempted to take the marka the beast just before it begins. Hopefully, we'll be raptured before then.

QuoteAll the while, Jesus made at least Preterists free indeed.

Actually, Satan made prets free - of the TRUTH.

[

QuoteYou just don't know anything about the Bible. 
Just like Rella.  All you can do is post a passage or 2. All without understanding!

  I believe I know a LOT more about it, and unlike you, I BELIEVE it.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sat May 30, 2020 - 17:20:34

QuoteThat'll be the great trib. Forewarned is forearmed. If it occurs in my lifetime, I won't be tempted to take the marka the beast just before it begins. Hopefully, we'll be raptured before then.

I take it the "we" in your sentence applies to anyone who believes like you.

Quote
Actually, Satan made prets free - of the TRUTH

.
Now you're playing on words. Go fix something!
[

QuoteI believe I know a LOT more about it, and unlike you, I BELIEVE it.

You'll get over it.

Hi Rella,

Back at your reply #32, you made a couple challenges that I'd like to address. 

First, to paraphrase your statement, you said that no one made any record of seeing anybody alive again after the 1,000 years.  Yes, they most certainly did.  It was Matthew in Matthew 27:52-53.  That "remnant" (loipoi) of the dead that came to life again in the "FIRST Resurrection" (according to Rev. 20:5) were raised along with Christ the First-fruits.  MANY saw them when they went into the city of Jerusalem. 

Besides the Apostle Matthew recording this story of the remnant of the saints raised to life again in the First Resurrection", we have the paragraph from  the historian Quadratus writing to emperor Hadrian about those resurrected and healed by Christ.  Eusebius' history preserves this fragment from Quadratus for us.

Why do you suppose Christ was called the "FIRST-fruits of them that slept"?  It's because He performed the "FIRST Resurrection" event by raising Himself from the dead and raising the 144,000 other First-fruits along with Him.  It was ONLY bodies of the saints that were raised from graves around Jerusalem, which is why they were called "blessed and HOLY", and why they came from specific, named tribes of Israel.

Rev. 20:5 says that the millennium ENDED with that "First Resurrection", which is the one that took place in AD 33.  This also aligns with the whole chronology of Rev. 12 that I have been citing as proof that the millennium had expired BEFORE John was writing Revelation.  It doesn't matter how long you think that "short time" and "little season" of Satan's release lasted.  That's immaterial to the point that chronologically, the loosing of Satan FOLLOWED AFTER the millennium had expired, and that John said Satan was presently ALREADY LOOSED back then.

Your other challenge was to stress that we presently have no eye-witness accounts available to read except for Josephus about those closing days of the Jewish-Roman War, and no eye-witness of Christ's bodily return.  Do we actually have to have these eye-witness accounts, if Jesus said what He was going to do ahead of time, and in what order He said He would do it? It seems rather lacking in faith - like doubting Thomas - to insist that we have a pile of hard copy evidence after the fact before we will believe what Jesus promised He would do in that first generation.

For one thing, archaeological research is by no means at a standstill, and may yet yield the evidence you seek. 

For another, you don't know if such a record was made and then accidentally ruined or deliberately destroyed by those antagonistic to the faith.  Particularly anyone in the Jewish leadership who hated Christianity.

For yet another, this AD 70 resurrection was an instantaneous event, with the bodies of dead saints being changed in the twinkling of an eye.  If any witnesses had happened to turn their eyes skyward at that moment, if they blinked, they would have missed the whole thing. 

Also, the prophecy of Zechariah says that this bodily return of Christ was going to be to the Mount of Olives location, which would be directly viewed by those Jews and Romans in the immediate proximity.  The  entire globe was not prophesied to be an eye-witnesses of this event; it was going to be specifically "THOSE THAT PIERCED HIM" who would grieve to see His return. 

Another thing; Christ told the believers to FLEE FROM JUDEA AND JERUSALEM when they saw the city surrounded by armies, and not to return during the "days of vengeance".  They obeyed Him.  We can get a pretty good idea from the casualty lists that Ussher included in his "Annals" of how many heeded that warning and didn't hang around to become eye-witnesses of Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives.   Roughly one and 1/4 million who were in Jerusalem in AD 66 (according to Nero's Passover census in AD 66) never came back to Jerusalem, and fortunately avoided becoming trapped in the city's siege.  Anyone who did become trapped fell victim to sword, famine and plague, and if they survived, they were taken captive and enslaved to miserable fates after the Romans laid the city waste.

None of those in the destroyed city would have survived to tell of seeing Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives location.  Dead men cannot give a testimony to anything they saw before they died.  Neither could captured prisoners sent to Roman arenas to die or to labor in the mines and elsewhere till they died have had the opportunity to write about witnessing Christ's bodily return to Jerusalem.  Presuming they even had the ability to read and write.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 30, 2020 - 18:49:09
I take it the "we" in your sentence applies to anyone who believes like you..
Now you're playing on words. Go fix something!
[
You'll get over it.

Lotsa blather - no PROOF !

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Sun May 31, 2020 - 00:55:59
Hi Rella,

Back at your reply #32, you made a couple challenges that I'd like to address. 

First, to paraphrase your statement, you said that no one made any record of seeing anybody alive again after the 1,000 years.  Yes, they most certainly did.  It was Matthew in Matthew 27:52-53.  That "remnant" (loipoi) of the dead that came to life again in the "FIRST Resurrection" (according to Rev. 20:5) were raised along with Christ the First-fruits.  MANY saw them when they went into the city of Jerusalem. 

Besides the Apostle Matthew recording this story of the remnant of the saints raised to life again in the First Resurrection", we have the paragraph from  the historian Quadratus writing to emperor Hadrian about those resurrected and healed by Christ.  Eusebius' history preserves this fragment from Quadratus for us.

Why do you suppose Christ was called the "FIRST-fruits of them that slept"?  It's because He performed the "FIRST Resurrection" event by raising Himself from the dead and raising the 144,000 other First-fruits along with Him.  It was ONLY bodies of the saints that were raised from graves around Jerusalem, which is why they were called "blessed and HOLY", and why they came from specific, named tribes of Israel.

Rev. 20:5 says that the millennium ENDED with that "First Resurrection", which is the one that took place in AD 33.  This also aligns with the whole chronology of Rev. 12 that I have been citing as proof that the millennium had expired BEFORE John was writing Revelation.  It doesn't matter how long you think that "short time" and "little season" of Satan's release lasted.  That's immaterial to the point that chronologically, the loosing of Satan FOLLOWED AFTER the millennium had expired, and that John said Satan was presently ALREADY LOOSED back then.

Your other challenge was to stress that we presently have no eye-witness accounts available to read except for Josephus about those closing days of the Jewish-Roman War, and no eye-witness of Christ's bodily return.  Do we actually have to have these eye-witness accounts, if Jesus said what He was going to do ahead of time, and in what order He said He would do it? It seems rather lacking in faith - like doubting Thomas - to insist that we have a pile of hard copy evidence after the fact before we will believe what Jesus promised He would do in that first generation.

For one thing, archaeological research is by no means at a standstill, and may yet yield the evidence you seek. 

For another, you don't know if such a record was made and then accidentally ruined or deliberately destroyed by those antagonistic to the faith.  Particularly anyone in the Jewish leadership who hated Christianity.

For yet another, this AD 70 resurrection was an instantaneous event, with the bodies of dead saints being changed in the twinkling of an eye.  If any witnesses had happened to turn their eyes skyward at that moment, if they blinked, they would have missed the whole thing. 

Also, the prophecy of Zechariah says that this bodily return of Christ was going to be to the Mount of Olives location, which would be directly viewed by those Jews and Romans in the immediate proximity.  The  entire globe was not prophesied to be an eye-witnesses of this event; it was going to be specifically "THOSE THAT PIERCED HIM" who would grieve to see His return. 

Another thing; Christ told the believers to FLEE FROM JUDEA AND JERUSALEM when they saw the city surrounded by armies, and not to return during the "days of vengeance".  They obeyed Him.  We can get a pretty good idea from the casualty lists that Ussher included in his "Annals" of how many heeded that warning and didn't hang around to become eye-witnesses of Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives.   Roughly one and 1/4 million who were in Jerusalem in AD 66 (according to Nero's Passover census in AD 66) never came back to Jerusalem, and fortunately avoided becoming trapped in the city's siege.  Anyone who did become trapped fell victim to sword, famine and plague, and if they survived, they were taken captive and enslaved to miserable fates after the Romans laid the city waste.

None of those in the destroyed city would have survived to tell of seeing Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives location.  Dead men cannot give a testimony to anything they saw before they died.  Neither could captured prisoners sent to Roman arenas to die or to labor in the mines and elsewhere till they died have had the opportunity to write about witnessing Christ's bodily return to Jerusalem.  Presuming they even had the ability to read and write.

No, 3R - the millenium hasn't yet happened, nor has Jesus returned.

  The sequence of events will be, according to Scripture :

1. The beast/antichrist/man of sin will come to power, along with his sidekick, a powerful false prophet. (There have been, and are, many FPs for millenia, but this one will be able to perform some miracles, thru Satan's power.) (The Jews will have likely built a new temple in J by then.)

2. The "Gog-Magog war, with God's deliverance of Israel.

3. The AOD will occur in the temple in J.

4. The worldwide great trib.

5. Jesus' return, seen by ALL, even those who pierced Him, from hades.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 30, 2020 - 16:54:53
Rella said:
You find the pessimistic view of life when you ponder what's wrong with the "world" today.

There's where I have a happier time in life because I read the "Power of Positive Thinking" by Dr. Norman V. Peale, who was also a pastor.

See, pessimistic thinking attracts negative results.

Even if one only has mustard seed faith, optimism rules the day!

Matthew 6:21

21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

I get no "treasure" by being watchful for WW2 again.  Prosperity is linked to God's promises, provisions, and favor now and in the future. 

Let's talk about Norman Vincent Peale.

I too have followed and read his writing including "The Power of Positive Thinking.

YOU are aware that it was he who encouraged Robert Schuller to go west and start the Crystal Cathedral in Orange County CA.are you not? It was because Peale was pastor in the "Marble Collegiate Church" and is the very reason why Schuller
named his Crystal Cathedral....  The similarities in names.

MAJOR  NOTE I BET YOU DO NOT KNOW....

Note only was he a personal friend of Richard Nixon.....Donald Trump attended church there as he was growing up and
Dr. Peale married Trump to his first wife Ivana.

Schuller is another one that from time to time I would catch on his Sunday TV service. That was in my baby step days of my growing closer to God.

Of course you do know what happened to Schuller don't you? He aligned with Rick Warren to promote Crislam.
I am sure you know what that is all about, as well read as you are. That was shortly after one o the spokespeople on 700 Club sat and he and Pat Robertson were discussing this black man's "almost" converting to "The Nation of Islam". But you know all about that too.....

OH WAIT... no you dont cause none of them are Prets. Not even NVP.

So let's address  your

"You find the pessimistic view of life when you ponder what's wrong with the "world" today.

See, pessimistic thinking attracts negative results.

Even if one only has mustard seed faith, optimism rules the day!"

I have a higher IQ then Forest Gump. Yellow brick roads and primrose paths are only in fairy tales, for which you are attempting to live. But yours is questionable when you wander through life with your head in the sand, oblivious to what is going on around you. YOU ARE the prime candidate for the mark of the beast... but wait.... you dont believe in it cause everyone that was going to be marked was done so in the first century or earlier, right 

None of what you say here has anything to do with Jesus having come in 70AD.

Lea, i really do worry about you. Not so much about 3 resurections cause he knows his beliefs and why. YOU DON'T.

You parrot what you read and hear cause it sounds right and so idealistic.

WOW

  I shall repeatedly remind Lea & other prets that the ONLY way they can defend the pret doctrine is to present UNQUESTIONABLE HISTORICALLY DOCUMENTED PROOF that the prophesied events they SAY have already occurred, HAVE actually occurred, especially the return of Jesus in the manner He Himself said He will return.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sun May 31, 2020 - 08:56:45
  I shall repeatedly remind Lea & other prets that the ONLY way they can defend the pret doctrine is to present UNQUESTIONABLE HISTORICALLY DOCUMENTED PROOF that the prophesied events they SAY have already occurred, HAVE actually occurred, especially the return of Jesus in the manner He Himself said He will return.

And I shall reject your posts for the same repetitiveness!  One never learns anything from you.

You are the maker of bad news.

Quote from: lea on Sun May 31, 2020 - 12:45:32
And I shall reject your posts for the same repetitiveness!  One never learns anything from you.

You are the maker of bad news.

Go ahead; see if I care. My posts are mainly directed to SENSIBLE people who don't swallow the pret trash YOU have.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sun May 31, 2020 - 13:53:17
Go ahead; see if I care. My posts are mainly directed to SENSIBLE people who don't swallow the pret trash YOU have.

That's not all you're gonna swallow either. 

Quote from: lea on Sun May 31, 2020 - 14:42:11
That's not all you're gonna swallow either.

Again-more nonsense.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sun May 31, 2020 - 15:11:20
Again-more nonsense.

Again you can't talk about anything well. It takes someone smarter than you to understand learning too.

Quote from: lea on Sun May 31, 2020 - 15:16:48
Again you can't talk about anything well. It takes someone smarter than you to understand learning too.

  Well, YOU'RE the person here posting nonsense.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sun May 31, 2020 - 17:02:24
  Well, YOU'RE the person here posting nonsense.

Gotcha trolling because you are a miserable person and don't have the courage to leave if you have nothing good to say or ask.

Quote from: lea on Sun May 31, 2020 - 19:27:59
Gotcha trolling because you are a miserable person and don't have the courage to leave if you have nothing good to say or ask.

I post to keep others from believing the garbage to which YOU'RE in thrall .

Quote from: robycop3 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 05:00:01
I post to keep others from believing the garbage to which YOU'RE in thrall .

It seems you also post to feign affection from others by boasting about your 4 yr. stint in the military!

Trying to get attention about it is a no-no.  Better military people let others do their bidding! 

I worked as a nurse for over 40 years helping doctors and patients. Not to mention directly saving lives when patients coded either. I dealt with the AIDS crisis in the hospitals in the 80s and 90s.

I never sought big recognition. Mostly because we are humble about the good we do.

I don't try to win friends in prophecy by telling them "Look, I'm a nurse, you should like me and give me your Preterist support."

You do.  It's usually a sign of low self-esteem, so I don't care.

Everyone can see your bitterness, beginning with your first post.

You don't have the guts to post in the end times your views because you are full of hate from low self-esteem!

Quote from: robycop3 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 05:00:01
I post to keep others from believing the garbage to which YOU'RE in thrall .

Donot let her bother you. She is obviously under the powerof Satan.

We are in the end of endtimes and she knows it.  Makes her panic and trying to draw all possibly down that rabbit hole with her trying to deceive us.

Quote from: Rella on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 15:02:36
Donot let her bother you. She is obviously under the powerof Satan.

We are in the end of endtimes and she knows it.  Makes her panic and trying to draw all possibly down that rabbit hole with her trying to deceive us.

Oh look, she describes herself!  Satan's mouthpiece!

Quote from: lea on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 13:06:41
It seems you also post to feign affection from others by boasting about your 4 yr. stint in the military!

Trying to get attention about it is a no-no.  Better military people let others do their bidding! 

I worked as a nurse for over 40 years helping doctors and patients. Not to mention directly saving lives when patients coded either. I dealt with the AIDS crisis in the hospitals in the 80s and 90s.

I never sought big recognition. Mostly because we are humble about the good we do.

I don't try to win friends in prophecy by telling them "Look, I'm a nurse, you should like me and give me your Preterist support."

You do.  It's usually a sign of low self-esteem, so I don't care.

Everyone can see your bitterness, beginning with your first post.

You don't have the guts to post in the end times your views because you are full of hate from low self-esteem!

  How goofy ! If I wanted attention for myself, I'd use my real name. There are over 6K Robys in the USA, & no one outside family & friends know (or care) which one I am.

  If you were a RN, you should have enough sense not to believe that pret tripe.

Quote from: robycop3 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 16:50:40
  How goofy ! If I wanted attention for myself, I'd use my real name. There are over 6K Robys in the USA, & no one outside family & friends know (or care) which one I am.

  If you were a RN, you should have enough sense not to believe that pret tripe.

She obviously is drowning in the vat of kool-aid. Cut off the oxygen to her brain and therefore cannot think rationally. Understand rationally.Or communicate rationally.

Massive brainwashing.

She need a detox...too far gone for an intervention.

Notice how a simple question gets all deflected by weird and strange ideas ,likely fromanother world.

The simple question is where is there proof.

Quote from: Rella on Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 18:43:17
She obviously is drowning in the vat of kool-aid. Cut off the oxygen to her brain and therefore cannot think rationally. Understand rationally.Or communicate rationally.

Massive brainwashing.

She need a detox...too far gone for an intervention.

Notice how a simple question gets all deflected by weird and strange ideas ,likely fromanother world.

The simple question is where is there proof.

  I've studied history since I was a boy. Even before I was saved, when I was presented with preterism, it struck me strange that those events were not found in history, & so I asked for proof, & was immediately answered with hostility, & NO PROOF. So, I've been asking ever since, & will continue to do so long as I'm able. But the question is really rhetorical & sarcastic, as I KNOW - not GUESS - that no such proof exists !

Quote from: robycop3 on Tue Jun 02, 2020 - 04:47:11
  I've studied history since I was a boy. Even before I was saved, when I was presented with preterism, it struck me strange that those events were not found in history, & so I asked for proof, & was immediately answered with hostility, & NO PROOF. So, I've been asking ever since, & will continue to do so long as I'm able. But the question is really rhetorical & sarcastic, as I KNOW - not GUESS - that no such proof exists !

The master deceiver must draw as many into his lies as he can because he knows his time is short on earth.

Of course it is short. The time span from Adam to now is a mere twinkling of an eye compared to eternity.

If they could offer one recorded shred of proof of anything other then Josephus' recounting of what the temple destruction was
them that would turn everything.

But they cannot and so they hurl insults  to those not with them.

You will note that the one main poster in this thing... the girl... actually had to revvived an 8 year old thread on this subject as well as a 6 year old one.

Heck, there are not even any papers that were written by anyone about this that not only did not make it into the history books but were kept out of the bible like the Gnostic books were. THERE is no proof...

Rella, the Christians did NOT STAY around Judea and Jerusalem to witness the bodily  return of Christ to the Mount of Olives because THEY OBEYED JESUS' WARNING TO DEPART (Luke 21:20-22) once they saw Jerusalem surrounded by the armies of the Zealots and Cestius Gallus squaring off against each other in AD 66. 

Historians record that many of them fled to Pella in the Decapolis and other distant locations to wait out the war.  Therefore, besides the eye-witness of Josephus and some other contemporary historians, there was no CHRISTIAN eye-witness of Christ's bodily return that could be recorded for your convenient inspection.  You are going to have to take Christ, the Apostles, and the scripture's word for this that it did happen when and where they foretold it would happen.  "Be not faithless, but believing."

And I have already proved that Satan's "short time" and "little season" of being loosed had ALREADY BEGUN when John was writing Rev. 12:12.  The simple present tense of the verb in that verse proves that Satan was THEN PRESENTLY LOOSED on the earth and the sea to perform massive deception of the nations of Israel and of the world.  Many of the NT epistles also agree with this, for example, by mentioning that Satan was THEN walking about as roaring lion, seeking those he could devour with that deception during that "little season" (which by scripture's own terms of definition should not exceed 40 years which constitutes a "long season" in God's terms).

  Sorry, Captain, but NONE of the eschatological prophecies have yet come to pass. You have yet to post any indisputable historical record of any of them occurring.

Such gossip again, no content.

Quote from: lea on Tue Jun 02, 2020 - 16:08:30
Such gossip again, no content.

  No historical proof from you, either !

Quote from: robycop3 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 - 04:44:45
  No historical proof from you, either !

You got it many times. You just can't read.